Where do you prefer to aim on deer with Cast Boolits?

[Beaverhunter2]

If you could position the deer the way you want at reasonable distance (say 50yds with a handgun, 100 yards with a rifle), where would you be aiming?

[DougGuy]

If they are close to my treestand I hit them right in the neck with a 7 1/2" SBH and a 310gr RF. Out past 30yds or so, I try for a heart shot if I can get one, that usually breaks down at least one shoulder.

[Tripplebeards]

The exact same as if I was shooting archery. Right behind the front shoulder center mass at an angle exiting low out the heart…out of my tree stand… I don’t hunt on the ground. If I did I would aim in the same place. Double lungs at at an angle normally takes some of the heart with it. I normally aim about an inch back from shoulder outline. If I connect on the shoulder on the other side that means I have a little less meat to save. Fine with me because it normally drops animals in its tracks or close to it. I’ll sacrifice a little meat any day of the week to watch a deer drop on the spot. We get so many extra tags here for deer each year it doesn’t bother me to lose a little meat. I use the scrap for trapping so it doesn’t go to waste. Aiming center mass right behind the front shoulder always gives me a little “lee way cushion” if I flinch, brush in the way, or get excited! Never gonna miss that way imo!

[BLAHUT]

I would like to go for the neck, head, just training always brings me back to center mass.

[ElCheapo]

I always want to break one or both shoulders. This puts the animal down on the spot and usually messes up heart or lungs. This has worked well for me with cast bullets from .357 magnum, 30-30 and 300 BLK rifles. Will test my 350 Legend with 200 gr Lee RNFP's on hogs as soon as possible. :smile:

[veeman]

Kill Zone!

[Winger Ed.]

Where I used to hunt, 120 yards was a long shot. Most were closer to 80-90.

.30-30, M1A, or .45-70:: With open sights, about 2/3 down from the top, and just at the rear edge of the shoulder.
The shock wave/fluid pressure or something like that usually blows out the lungs and shatters the heart.

.30-06, 7mmMag: With a scope, same thing unless its a doe and inside of 100 yards.
Then, right below the front edge of the ear's hole. That pretty well shatters the skull and disconnects the spine.
A few facing away were hit at the base of the skull. A couple that were looking at me got it just above the nose.

Where I hunted, I never took a shot on one that wasn't standing still.
If one was walking along and didn't stop to listen or sniff, another would probably come by and stop within 20-30 minutes.

I've only shot one with the 7Mag.
It's really a little too much gun for where I was, but it was a fun kitchen project gun to put together,
and I hadn't killed anything with it.

[NSB]

Triplebeards spelled it out perfectly. I’ve shot over two hundred deer in my long hunting career and it’s always been the best place to aim, shoot, and hit. There are very few deer I haven’t collected after shooting them in that spot.

[stubshaft]

High shoulder, usually penetrates to the nerve cluster and bone bits cause extreme trauma.

[missionary5155]

We hunt river bottoms primarily with recurve bows. Most releases are well under 15 yards. We always go for the heart...

[GregLaROCHE]

On caribou at long range, always shoulder/heart. If I had the rare chance of a close shot, I would take a neck shot. A lot easier to dress out that way.

[versa-06]

Behind the shoulders trying to stay off of them. -06

[wolfdog]

Double lung. Ribs don't have much meat, where as shoulder shots tend to destroy a lot of meat and usually if I get one, I get both.

[hc18flyer]

It depends on my gun, distance, weather, and time of the day. Raining or near dark, I am more likely to break down a shoulder. Morning shot, with snow to track, I will double lung them. Muzzleloader under 20 yards, with a solid rest, neck shots work great. I do dislike bloodshot shoulders, I always get stuck cleaning them up!
hc18flyer

[Larry Gibson]

Problem with a "double lung" is it works if the deer is broadside. Even then the deer can go a long way before lying down to die. If you've got good tracking conditions and no other hunters in the local (I have had two deer I double lunged go far enough other hunters to shoot them again and claimed them), then it's a viable shot. If "still" hunting [a misnomer BTW] a broadside shot is an exception. You'll most likely get a frontal, a quartering towards you or a quartering away shot. I don't do Texas heart shots so I omitted that shot. With those shots a behind the shoulder is not practical. A behind the shoulder shot on any quartering shot will result in a gut shot either going in or coming out. A frontal shot can easily miss both lungs.

I learned a long time ago the best and most assured shot is to the heart area regardless of angle. That are is where the arteries and viens come in and out of the heart itself. In deer it is an area a bit smaller than a soccer ball low between the front legs against the breast bone. put your cast bullet through that area and the deer will be down, if not DRT, then within not many yards. An easy frontal shot. With a quartering shot you'll not only get the heart area but also will probably breakdown one leg if not both.

Yes, it will damage a bit more meat and you'll end up with more burger. However, if you've ever lost after a couple days search a well double lung shot or poorly neck shot deer [I have in my younger less experienced days] you will appreciate the burger in the freezer in lieu of well fed coyote's, crows and magpies in the bush.....

If "hunting" from a stand (ground or tree) with the deer feeding in a plot or from corn thrown from a feeder then you should be comfortable, have a good rest, know the range and be able to pull off one of the other shots. I've no problems with that style of "hunting" since I've done it myself. However, if still hunting then go for the sure shot, the heart area.

[white eagle]

Now that I actually think of where I shoot it seems that I try most often for the heart
or just behind the front leg hoping for the heart lungs, most always for the off side shoulder
institutively I shoot there without thinking

[huntinlever]

Problem with a "double lung" is it works if the deer is broadside. Even then the deer can go a long way before lying down to die. If you've got good tracking conditions and no other hunters in the local (I have had two deer I double lunged go far enough other hunters to shoot them again and claimed them), then it's a viable shot. If "still" hunting [a misnomer BTW] a broadside shot is an exception. You'll most likely get a frontal, a quartering towards you or a quartering away shot. I don't do Texas heart shots so I omitted that shot. With those shots a behind the shoulder is not practical. A behind the shoulder shot on any quartering shot will result in a gut shot either going in or coming out. A frontal shot can easily miss both lungs.

I learned a long time ago the best and most assured shot is to the heart area regardless of angle. That are is where the arteries and viens come in and out of the heart itself. In deer it is an area a bit smaller than a soccer ball low between the front legs against the breast bone. put your cast bullet through that area and the deer will be down, if not DRT, then within not many yards. An easy frontal shot. With a quartering shot you'll not only get the heart area but also will probably breakdown one leg if not both.

Yes, it will damage a bit more meat and you'll end up with more burger. However, if you've ever lost after a couple days search a well double lung shot or poorly neck shot deer [I have in my younger less experienced days] you will appreciate the burger in the freezer in lieu of well fed coyote's, crows and magpies in the bush.....

If "hunting" from a stand (ground or tree) with the deer feeding in a plot or from corn thrown from a feeder then you should be comfortable, have a good rest, know the range and be able to pull off one of the other shots. I've no problems with that style of "hunting" since I've done it myself. However, if still hunting then go for the sure shot, the heart area.

I actually hit the wrong poll button. I know it will waste meat but I want to down the animal, and trust my placement better when I just break his shoulder(s). With the 45-70, I know will bust through everything. On quartering away shot I will aim for the far shoulder just a bit forward of where most doing a proper quartering away shot take. I would never attempt a Texas heart shot.

[ElCheapo]

In my experience shoulder shots will not waste meat with cast bullets, at least up to impact velocities of 2200 fps or so. You can pretty much eat right up to the hole. Now if you blast one in the shoulder at woods ranges with a 270, '06, 308 etc. and typical cup and core bullets you will lose meat for sure, which is why most devotees of these calibers recommend the lung shot. But if your situation is like many of ours and a lung shot deer runs 60-80 yards, you are likely to have other people shooting at it, which is lovely.

You can avoid all that by using cast bullets of decent weight and moderate velocity and placing the shot directly into one or preferably both shoulders. The animal will go down on the spot, possibly kick around a bit and then expire. You will lose no meat to speak of and nobody else will shoot your "dead" deer. Same result can be achieved with higher velocity guns by using the heaviest bullets available for the caliber. I know an older deer hunter who used to trespass and poach deer in his younger days. He and his friends shot lots of deer and they found that heavy and slow bullets placed in the shoulder would anchor the animal pronto and not waste meat. Think about it, if you're someplace you're not supposed to be and you shoot something, you don't want a long tracking job. You want to grab the deer and get out of there. His caliber of choice was the 30-06 and he always used the heaviest bullets he could find for it at the time.

[gc45]

When young, we had a tree stand. My dad had an early 44Mag from Ruger. He loaded it to 1100fps or so using cast 240gr bullets. My Brothers and I would shoot deer in the apple orchard and through both lungs at 40yrds or so. We are lots of venison back then.

[HWooldridge]

I've shot a couple of deer in the neck with a 455gr cast 45-70 cast boolit and the pill went right through without hitting the vertebra. Both animals acted like they were bitten by a bug - so I shot again into the shoulder and broke them down. Of course, they would have gone off and died with that big hole in the neck but it would have taken a while.

[Shawlerbrook]

The same place I aim with jacketed bullets or my bow. Right behind the front shoulder, double lung. Never fail to kill in seconds. I know some disagree but neck shots are very iffy, shoot low and hit the windpipe and you will be chasing a deer with a tracheotomy trying for a kill shot.

[rbuck351]

I found that a shoulder shot will plant about anything where it stood. The op said cast boolit so unless you are one of the very good cast boolit loaders (I'm not), about 2000 fps is about as fast as you can push a larger cal boolit with accuracy. A cast boolit at 2000 or less impact velocity will not destroy enough meat to matter. I have shot several moose with 270win, 308 win, 338 win and 300H&H. I put a 180 gr Speer through both lungs and the heart at about 75 yds. It walked off about 30yds and stopped. The second shot was about 4" from the first and it rared up and flopped on it's back. If you don't drop a moose on the first shot it will walk into a pond if there is one close. Try skinning a moose in a pond and then tell me it's ok if they wander off 30 or 40 yds.

The last whitetail I shot, ran off about 100yds after a lung shot with a 85gr 243 at over 3000 fps through the lungs. It took me a couple of hours to find it. I'm am not interested in tracking wounded critters so I want them to stop where they are hit. Front shoulders seems to be the only large target area that gets the results I want.

[Rapier]

First of all, you never shoot an animal unless you know exactly where to place an instantly fatal shot. They deserve that respect.

For a deer a neck shot centered top to bottom is preferred, if the neck is clear and the deer is standing still. Next is a heart shot, behind the shoulder at the leg body joint about 2" up from the belly.

Unless you want to loose half the meat on a deer, you do not ever shoot the front shoulder.
With a swamp hog, just shoot the vermin, to kill, and then bury them. Dry land hogs can be real good eating, I shoot them in the head , neck or heart. Head is between the eye and ear hole.

[wolfdog]

I found that a shoulder shot will plant about anything where it stood. The op said cast boolit so unless you are one of the very good cast boolit loaders (I'm not), about 2000 fps is about as fast as you can push a larger cal boolit with accuracy. A cast boolit at 2000 or less impact velocity will not destroy enough meat to matter. I have shot several moose with 270win, 308 win, 338 win and 300H&H. I put a 180 gr Speer through both lungs and the heart at about 75 yds. It walked off about 30yds and stopped. The second shot was about 4" from the first and it rared up and flopped on it's back. If you don't drop a moose on the first shot it will walk into a pond if there is one close. Try skinning a moose in a pond and then tell me it's ok if they wander off 30 or 40 yds.

The last whitetail I shot, ran off about 100yds after a lung shot with a 85gr 243 at over 3000 fps through the lungs. It took me a couple of hours to find it. I'm am not interested in tracking wounded critters so I want them to stop where they are hit. Front shoulders seems to be the only large target area that gets the results I want.

Living in MT, if they run 30-40 yards, they don't usually make it to a pond, in some areas, 30-40 miles won't make it to a pond. I shoot a 38-55 with a 255gr clip on WW air cooled PB bullet. I'm getting about 1600fps ish. This is the offside front shoulder of a deer I hit at 120 yards. 309952
Double lungs with the same weapon give me less meat damage so I tend to go for that. But again, in my area, a 50 yard run isn't anything to worry about. I also bowhunt and get very similar tracking jobs.
309953
30 yard shot on this animal, both lungs, ran about 50ish yards but was easily found even in what is considered "cover" here.
Wound shown is the entry. Exited out bottom of chest/heart, steep downward angle.
309954
309955

[Rockindaddy]

A most interesting topic. I'm an old timer who has killed a lot of deer. I hunted with my father and grandfather when I was a kid. They were avowed neck shooters. The deer would not run and fall in front of another hunter was their reasoning. A neck shot usually dropped Bambi on the spot. When I farmed I usually had deer in my corn fields. A shot from the tractor seat through the ears put meat in the freezer. Had kids who liked eating venison. But I found that deer shot through the lungs or heart were better eating. When field dressing and removing the entrails, the thorasic cavity was usually filled with blood on a heart or lung shot. The blood was not in the meat! Head shots and neck shots resulted in venison that the meat was bloody. There was no blood in the thorasic cavity! These later years, I always go for a shoulder, heart, and lung shot. The meat tastes better. My ole 45-70, 40-65 Win and 50-70 uses soft cast boolits! They make a large hole going in and usually try to crush a shoulder. The soft lead projectile has expanded and makes a large exit hole that lets out plenty of blood. I've had heart shot deer run 30~70 feet before falling over. Just shot a buck this past season in PA during the flintlock season. My 54 cal Leigh County flint rifle has taken plenty of whitetails! Big soft bullet through the shoulders does the trick. But sometimes in thick timber one only has a head or neck shot. Take it! Don't wait! You will still have Bambi in the freezer instead of him jumping out in front of your car or truck!

[ElCheapo]

Unless you want to loose half the meat on a deer, you do not ever shoot the front shoulder.


Good advice for high velocity jacketed bullet users, but this isn't what the OP was asking about.

[versa-06]

I don't ever shoot for the shoulder either unless it can't be avoided on a quartering shot. Soft bullets make a lot of damage even cast.

[versa-06]

P.S. Behind the shoulder or upper neck.

[huntinlever]

With my 45-70 405 grain, I prefer the shoulder.

[Good Cheer]

Depending upon the terrain, your personnel circumstances and the time of day there's a lot to be said for the shoulder.

[ElCheapo]

Alloy definitely makes a difference. I use straight COWW's and PC my bullets, resulting in a final hardness of 10-12 BHN. In my 30-30 I've used the Lyman 311041 and 311008 at 2200 fps to harvest deer with shoulder shots. Deer drop on the spot and the bullets give complete penetration with very little bloodshot meat. I used the same process to make NOE 120 grain roundnoses for my 300 BLK and used it on hogs. Worked well for small to medium hogs, but sub-par performance on larger hogs has convinced me to try the 350 Legend. I'm using the LEE 200 gr RNFP PC'd, at 2200 fps. Accuracy is great and it should be the equal of the 35 Remington on hogs. We'll see when I get the chance to bust a 300 lb boar in the shoulder!

[georgerkahn]

I'm 100% with Tripplebeards (Post #3).
geo

[upr45]

Brain- prefer broadside with head down, however under hunting conditions that is not as likely. I can not advocate for others to make a brain shot, takes a really diciplined and patient trigger finger and mind set. No chasing, or tracking, and much easier butchering. Have to have a distance limit in mind, and be very aware of rifles trajectory at possible shooting distances. That being said -- this year I did 2 neck shots as that was what was available. It was a bit messy while butchering. Estimate that I lost about a pound of meat on one and about 2-2.5# on the 2nd one. Meat loss due to bone fragments, hair, lead & blood, mostly blood between muscle tissues. Every bullet or arrow is going to cause some meat loss if it goes thru muscle.

[Beaverhunter2]

Good advice for high velocity jacketed bullet users, but this isn't what the OP was asking about.

True. And half the meat on the deer I've shot hasn't been in the front shoulders. Hindquarters and the backstraps are about 65-70% of the good meat. Front shoulders and neck are about 10% each plus a little bit from the front legs above the elbows. Solid neck (spine) shots are definitely effective but I tracked (and recovered) a friend's deer that was shot through the neck a bit lower than intended. The bullet went through the windpipe. The deer went over 600 yards and drowned on his own blood. My friend pulled the shot about 2" lower than he wanted. Not too much off the mark for field conditions. If it wasn't for fresh snow and patience the deer would have been lost. Tiny flecks of blood on the snow every couple yards kept us from getting the trail mixed up too many times with other deer tracks. Since I found that deer I've never taken another neck shot. FWIW my preference is quartering away a bit and break the far shoulder. I lose a little meat (part of one shoulder), but I don't lose the deer because they never go far and they bleed well. And if I pull my shot by 2" the only one that will know is me because the outcome will be the same.

[M-Tecs]

One thing about brain shots that needs to be kept in mind is that there is zero blood loss. Field dressing ASAP helps even though the heart isn't pumping any blood out. I first discovered that when I had three tags. Two buck tags and a doe tag. Two bucks were following a doe. I dropped the biggest buck on the spot. Second shot put the doe down about 50 feet away. The second buck turned at the second shot and ran between the two downed deer. It stopped and I shot it through the brain. I dragged them together to field dress them. I did the brain shot last. After skinning brain shot buck the amount of blood oozing out was like something out of a horror movie. Same for the meat. Taste was adversely affected. The other two were normal. The first buck was a neck shot and the doe was a shoulder shot.

Later I helped skinning and processing 23 deer headshot by LE in a metro herd reduction. Most weren't field dressed for several hours. They all oozed blood after skinning and the meat was a bloody mess.

[quilbilly]

My wife and I hunt for the meat and want to damage as little as possible. In that respect, CB's are actually more versatile than modern high velocity bullets at ranges under 150 yards. The old saying,-"You can eat right up to the hole"- applies.

[wolfdog]

My wife and I hunt for the meat and want to damage as little as possible. In that respect, CB's are actually more versatile than modern high velocity bullets at ranges under 150 yards. The old saying,-"You can eat right up to the hole"- applies.

People keep saying that, but this is what the front shoulder exit on me deer looked like. 120 yards, 255grn flat nose .379 out of a 38-55 at 1600-1700fps. If you hit bone, I still get massive damage and meat loss. So I shoot for heart/lung now and try to avoid large bones in meaty areas.
310193

[1Papalote]

I took two bucks this year with cast boolits. Marlin CB357mag, Lee 125rf, 6 grs Unique. Marlin CB30-30, RD165, 10.6 grs Unique. Both neck shots up close. If using 45-70, I'd shoot behind the shoulder at the distances mentioned.

[fatnhappy]

Far side shoulder or near side shoulder depending on the presentation

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51141413882_b2c37dc1a3_c.jpg

[redhawk0]

Being a meat hunter....I aim behind the shoulder through the lungs...I can walk the extra 30-50 yards to recover the animal.

redhawk

[GhostHawk]

Deer heads aere always moving, down to graze, up to scan for danger. Which makes them a hard target. Unless you are jacklighting them, have their eyes locked on your light.
It results in a low consistency shot. If the deer is grazing all 4 fleet are planted. The body is not moving, or at most is moving forward at a slow walk.

The heart is right behind the elbow. 2 inches right of the elbow, that is your aim point. If the adrenaline is up I have seen double lung shot deer run a mile.

And the best thing you can do with any chest shot deer is after that shot sit down and give it a solid 15 minutes. It will be listening for pursuit. If it hears not it will stop at the first place that has cover and it will try to patch/clot that exit hole. A little pile of dried leaves or grass and it will lay down with the injured part on those leaves. 15 minutes is enough time for it to cool down, stiffen up, and bleed out. Walk up on it quiet chances are it will be laying there dead or almost dead. Easy to finish without another run and wild shots.

Bow hunters know. Shoot a deer, hit it in the right spot, give it some time to bleed out and stiffen up. Makes the follow up easy.

[35 Rem]

I prefer the "behind-the-shoulder" shot because it kills fast enough and gives the most margin for error. Also less meat damage. I didn't start hunting with cast bullets until 2017 I think it was but went cast all the way this year and got all 4 deer with them. Total cast bullet deer kill for me now is 8 so getting enough samples to make some general observations at least. I've not had one run more than 75 yards and all the others either dropped straight down or ran more like 30 or 40 yards. A couple of those were spine shot however and of course they are going to drop instantly. One of those was my longest cast bullet deer shot to date (160 yards). I thought it was more like 175 and held too high and clipped the spine rather than getting a double lung shot. Another shot was required to finish it off.

One observation I THINK I have noticed is that meplate size does make a difference. I have killed 3 using a 35 Remington and Accurate bullet 360-200A. You can hear that bullet hit the deer and it seems to drop them faster compared to the bullet I used for 4 deer this past season, which is RCBS 32-170-FN in a 32 Winchester Special. Both are traveling about 2,050 ft/sec and using the same alloy. I shot two does with the 32 Special on Opening Day this year at about 100 yards and audible bullet impact was significantly less that if I were using the 35 caliber Accurate bullet. The deer both ran further than the 3 I've shot with the 35 Remington. Of course there is infinite variation when shooting wild deer so I can't conclusively say that what I've observed will always happen or that I will see the same thing next year. The RCBS bullet in 32 caliber did put meat in the freezer but I will also most likely buy an Accurate 32-170A to use in the 32 Special next year as I'd prefer to dispatch the deer as humanely as possible.

[Hannibal]

With all the expertise displayed in this thread I'm surprised that I've ever found a dead deer in the woods even once. Let alone all the ones that followed.

Even the best laid plans don't always work out. I've seen too much evidence to believe otherwise.

[SoonerEd]

It's depends on cover, time of day, etc. If easy tracking and not late in the woods by myself, then double lung. If there is thick cover or i need to get out of the woods quickly or by myself close to dark then quartering away into the off shoulder. I'll neck shoot if the come under my stand and are close.

[Friends call me Pac]

I tend to shoot behind shoulder but will shoot high shoulder without fear of bloodshot meat in general.

I use a 50:50 pure lead and wheel weight mix in a NOE 311165 in my 30.30 & 30.06. Fastest is around 1900fps out of the ought 6 and a tad slower in the 30.30. This is the only recovered bullet I have ever had. It was from my 30.06 at a distance of about 25 yards. Found it lodged in the offside hide. It mushroomed nicely.

310529

Entry hole from that deer with a high shoulder shot. Bloodshot meat was minimal and easily trimmed away.

310530

Here is a different deer shot with the 30.30 and same bullet at around 50 yards. Placement was behind shoulder my actual preferred shot. Bloodshot meat is about the same or less than with the 30.06 in high shoulder. I believe I am listing entry and exit correctly but it was a few deer ago and I may have it reversed. Either way bloodshot meat was not an issue.

entry

310531

exit

310532

The absolute worse bloodshot meat I have ever had with cast was from a 260gr flat point out of a .44 carbine. It was a mess. Never shot another with it.

[Buckeye509]

Most of my shots are 50-65 yards have been on stationary deer, broadside, and they will bolt 40-60 yards and expire. A lot of times damage is done to the heart and nearby arteries from bits of rib-bone or nicked by the bullet. I prefer a 44 Mag, 240-50 grain cast moving around 1200fps from a 18” MGM Encore barrel.

[Paul D. Heppner]

310571
40/45 yards, 44 mag 310 grain Lee at about 1200 fps. Through the ribs and broke the off side leg. 50 yard death run and dropped in sight.

310572
20 gauge, first attempt at my own slug. 30 yard shot right behind the elbow, DRT. Not a very glamorous picture.

310573
308 at 90 yards. Hit him 3 times as he traveled about 50 or so yards and dropped. What you see are the exit wounds. The entrance holes are much closer together.

310574
308 at 80 yards. Sharp quartering to me. Hit him between the base of the neck and the onside shoulder, ran in about an 80 yard semi-circle and dropped just out of sight. Won't shoot there again. Clipped some vessels at the top of the heart and took care of his right lung.

310575
357 Max at 64 yards using 180 grain XTP at about 1700fps. She was already wounded by some other hunter so I finished the job. He never showed up to claim his prize. I even gutted her out for him. Oh well, she went home with me at the end of the day.

I like shooting through the lungs,both of them.

Don't know where the last picture came from. It is me and Rigby the wonder Poodle and a cotton tail he ran down and delivered to hand in my back yard. GOOD dog!

[Cap'n Caveman]

I'm not hunting from an elevated platform of any kind, so my shots are neck or high shoulder regardless if it's a cast bullet or not. I have no tracking issues that way.

[Anschutz]

It's all dependent and I've only taken one deer with cast but I'm usually going to aim at the crease of the shoulder about a third of the way up the body on a broadside shot which I've found to be rare. On a quartering-away shot, I'm trying to break down the offside shoulder. This generally ends in two lungs and sometimes the heart along with a messed up shoulder and no or a short tracking job. This year I'll be hunting primarily with a .375 Win in a newly acquired 94 Big Bore using cast and plan on much of the same.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Seeker]

I always like them broadside and I aim just behind the shoulder and low. Yes they run a bit, but they bleed out as nice as a double lung archery hit. Makes for great tasting venison and not near as messy butchering. The last deer I killed was a big doe that only offered me a frontal, slightly quartering shot. I hit her just to the left of the brisket with a 255g rnfp out of my Henry Steel .45 colt and it exited just in front of her left hind quarter. She bolted of course, but went down before she out of my sight.

[Elmer Fudd]

This starts off about jacketed but ends up at cast. Read at your own peril.

I have always tried for double lung shots through my 37 years of hunting big game. Except, a couple years ago my eldest son started hunting. He chose a 243 with a particular jacketed bullet (87 Hornady HP). A good bullet for an impact study, especially since he got to shoot 3 deer and 3 pronghorn with said combo, not including marmots, squirrels, etc. I also shot a deer with that combo with him as a witness. The results of those 7 shots were clearly showing shoulder shots rendered faster incapacitation and death compared to double lung shots. And not too much meat damage, especially not as much as one would think with a normal hollow point bullet, which this is certainly not. I don't shoot hearts because I eat them.

I won't bore you with every bullet I have ever used, but my old standby, going back those 37 years, is the 165 Hornady BTSP in the 308. My farthest kill with that was 4 hits on a spike bull elk at an even 400 yards. He just did what elk do and absorbed each shot until he bled to death. All 4 were broadside rib hits and all 4 exited. Most of the kills have been broadside, double lung hits. I took a muley bounding away in the TX heart shot style, bullet going above the heart and ending up under skin above brisket and below throat. DRT. I attribute that to the autonomic plexus hit, which I love. But most have been double lung, broadside shots with a soft-ish bullet.

Fast forward to two seasons ago. 14" 358 JDJ contender barrel. 230 NOE FN hp cast of straight ww, air cooled with a gas check and LBT blue lube. Near max load of Rl 7 for I expect around 2200 fps. Front-on pronghorn buck at 99 yds. Dead center impact, exiting out 4" behind rear rib. Straight line penetration. Lungs: mush. Heart: bruised on top, but edible and boy did I eat it. Liver: split badly. Guts: untouched. Exit hole: 1.5" in the skin, bloodshot all around. That was another plexus hit, knocking him off his feet. Not to mention a soft 35 caliber flat nose that readily expands. He didn't bleed like a lung shot, obviously. But it opened my eyes to the killing power of the cast projectile. Yes, I acknowledge this was overpower for a speed goat, and the cast hp isn't the same as a cast expander, or a cast non-expander. But it made clear how lungs can bleed (bloodshot in this case, with DRT). I have shot some marmots with cast, some HP from a Smith 57 (NOE 237 Keith hp) and some with solid FN from various calibers and weights. The HP is a more decisive killer in my experiences. Probably like the stories about the Gould HP for the trapdoor. The solid will penetrate for all it is worth and can break bones in and out with the right mass (SD, but stats lie) and nose profile (I am a believer in what Veral Smith has written because I have seen it myself). But the solid won't blow a marmot apart on the third impact like a hollow point will (at least from the 41 mag).

In summary, I like the autonomic plexus impact, whether through a shoulder or not, from any angle. It isn't too hard to hit (I don't take long shots, mostly), it has a pretty large margin for error and still be lethal, and it drops critters right there. Some may bleed to death at that point before waking up, some don't bleed so must just be dead, I don't really know. But that's what it seems like to me.

[versa-06]

I always try to stay behind the shoulders even on quartering shots. Or Back in the ribs & out front center. It's all about the meat with me, But many times it creates quite a draaaaag.

[Pinger87]

I like to use the vital triangle and aim for that. i feel it gives you room for error.

[Charlie Horse]

We used to have to bring our deer to a check station (Illinois). I remember Amish people bringing in deer they shot in the head with a deer slug.

[schutzen-jager]

it depends ! - broadside, direct frontal, angling toward, or away fom shooter -

[Wolfer]

I tend to take the shot that they offer me. Those broadside shots you see on TV don’t happen to me very often. I don’t take Texas heart shots but try to break a shoulder if the angle allows it.

[Shawlerbrook]

At the end of this interesting article on Col. Townsend Whelen he gives his advice ( which I wholeheartedly agree with) on where to aim at big game.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/an-american-original-townsend-whelen?fbclid=IwAR0VEKS3M5a8OF1TKezz_uxwfK66YpaA4k-8fZH-qwJ75qHzt2-pkMRRUo4

[huntinlever]

At the end of this interesting article on Col. Townsend Whelen he gives his advice ( which I wholeheartedly agree with) on where to aim at big game.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/an-american-original-townsend-whelen?fbclid=IwAR0VEKS3M5a8OF1TKezz_uxwfK66YpaA4k-8fZH-qwJ75qHzt2-pkMRRUo4

Thanks for that link. Always been meaning to read his/Angier's "Own Your Own in the Wilderness," and just picked it up. I have Angier's "How to Stay in the Woods," though I prefer his "The Master Backwoodsman."

[Good Cheer]

At the end of this interesting article on Col. Townsend Whelen he gives his advice ( which I wholeheartedly agree with) on where to aim at big game.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/riac-blog/an-american-original-townsend-whelen?fbclid=IwAR0VEKS3M5a8OF1TKezz_uxwfK66YpaA4k-8fZH-qwJ75qHzt2-pkMRRUo4

Thanks. That's a fun read. Made me think about how wonderful the American Rifleman was in the 1960's versus today.

[Orchard6]

There is a lot of variables that dictate my shot placements. Bullet construction and velocity are the two main ones for me. With a revolver I like to use hollow points at magnum velocities and stay behind the shoulder. So far it’s worked great. The expansion of the hollow point going through the lungs makes for larger holes and quicker hemorrhaging than that of any other cast bullet design I’ve tried.

If I’m using a solid type bullet, whether semi wadcutter or round nose flat point I take shoulder shots to try and slow the animal down. This seems to work with any velocity range I’ve shot, from 1000 fps on up. Since expansion will be minimal hemorrhaging will also be minimal and breaking the animal down is in my experience the best way to ensure a retrieval. If by chance I’m in an area where the deer must be dropped in its tracks due to property lines or heavy cover making retrieval difficult I’ll use the high shoulder or neck shot. I don’t prefer either one of those because the margin for error is quite small but it is very effective if done right.

[jednorris]

Just behind the front shoulder gets both lungs. When the bullet hits, it knocks all the wind out of the animal. How far can anything run with NO air in its lungs and no way of getting its breath.

[Fire_stick]

In resent time, the high shoulder shot has become my preferred shot. Using this technique has dropped more deer in their tracks or within a few yards. Everyone likes forensic photos, right?
317272

[Jeff Michel]

Straight up the front leg 2/3rd's of the way up. If you pull a bit your in lungs. Low, your in the heart and steady, your through the shoulder. A deer won't go far without front wheels.

[ChristopherO]

In resent time, the high shoulder shot has become my preferred shot. Using this technique has dropped more deer in their tracks or within a few yards. Everyone likes forensic photos, right?
317272

Fire_Stick, That is the splitting image of a buck hit with the 45/70 and the Accurate WFN boolit I placed in the high shoulder. Normally the aim is lower to take out both lungs, but on that occasion the circumstances called for both shoulders to be taken out, and the performance of the boolit put that deer down in style. It really works, especially when the CNS is severed in the process.
Thanks for the photo. Brought back a good memory on a frosty opening day.

[Bigbore5]

I most often use a 357mag or a max loaded with the Keith bullet cast 15-18 bhn and gas checked or a 500 Linebaugh loaded with a 355swc at 1350fps. I like the double lungs with the 357's and double shoulder with the 500.

[Ramjet-SS]

Cast boolits in the WFN configuration at moderate to higher velocities make complete jelly out of lung tissue.

In this pic you can see testing with variety of bullets the low right corner is 315 grain LFN out of 45/70 rifle at 1400 FPS look at the damage…..

The pic with the least damage was the entrance holes the one with lots of damage is 12” in the wet news print.

Upper left a 260 grain WFN from a Colt revolver 750 FPS 16” penetration
Center a 315 grain 44 Mag Colt Anaconda LFN at 1100 FPS (24” plus penetration out the back after 24 “)
Upper right is a 180 Grain XTP from my 45 ACP Mark 23 SOCOM at 1500 FPS (poor penetration) lots damage.
Lower right 45/70 From my Henry Single Shot 315 grain long flat nose hard cast 1400 FPS. Out the back after 24” of penetration.

The wet news print gives an excellent depiction of the damage of the temporary and permanent would channel. Cast bullets with LFN or WFN a cause significant damage to lung tissue and in may cases will blow put the diaphragm in the process.

[wc870]

My vote is the double lung behind the shoulder, I had a buddy that used to like the neck shot (i don't know why because it didn't always work out) and we had to go find a lot of them.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I was using ballistic tipped .308 for deer and kept blowing up the hearts. Wanted to try eating one so i switched to core locked bullets. My Son served deer heart to a Korean engineer from his work and when he asked him what he though of it he said, "Good, tastes like dog"! Obviously he had no qualms about eating Bambi.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Center of the body, broadside, trying to hit both lungs. I try to stay away from the shoulder as it ruins a lot of meat.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_iswMukM8Y&t=128s

[Lloyd Smale]

I always want to break one or both shoulders. This puts the animal down on the spot and usually messes up heart or lungs. This has worked well for me with cast bullets from .357 magnum, 30-30 and 300 BLK rifles. Will test my 350 Legend with 200 gr Lee RNFP's on hogs as soon as possible. :smile:

me to with cast. it puts them down without much meat loss. ill head shoot at 50 yards and found out at a 100 deer shot behing the shoulder just run to far. shoulder shot usually anchors them right there and makes it a more humane kill and add to that at my age dragging deer is a real job. even small ones. now with expanding jacketed i shoot behind the shoulder

[Outer Rondacker]

Same place I always do. The head. Sorry but I do not like the taste of antlers. This always ends up with no meat loss. They drop and never run. Had a DEC officer give me a hard time one day about chopping off a doe's head and trying to pass it along as a buck. I think I told this story one here many years ago but anyway I let him go on for a short time and then spread the bucks legs. Followed by a you have a good day officer.

[Anchorite]

me to with cast. it puts them down without much meat loss. ill head shoot at 50 yards and found out at a 100 deer shot behing the shoulder just run to far. shoulder shot usually anchors them right there and makes it a more humane kill and add to that at my age dragging deer is a real job. even small ones. now with expanding jacketed i shoot behind the shoulder

Lots of old time deer hunters in the Deep South (and poachers) have harvested truck loads of dinks with cast bullets and 22 Hornet shots to the head.

[41mag]

My choice on the poll was other. Deer around where we hunt are usually on the move and hardly ever come in for those posed broadside shots. I learned at an early age using a .243 that I had to place my shots accordingly. While my dad and uncles used their '06 and 150-165gr bullets, they had more authority than my pip squeak 100gr did.

I learned to try and put my shots through the chest cavity and either take out one or both shoulder. I learned to shoot in front or behind one shoulder to come out through or in front or behind of the other or just straight through both. As I grew older I did the high shoulder and moved on to heavier calibers and different bullets. This all of course was with jacketed stuff.

Nowadays I have been using mostly handguns and of those my 41,44, 45C or 454 have gotten the most field time. Either of them using my cast have worked out well on feral hogs and a couple of deer. Same shots as when i was younger however, transect the chest usually gets one or both lungs, heart, and disrupts the CNS. I have had deer and even hogs run a bit, but haven't lost one in many years.

[6GUNSONLY]

Oh, about anywhere in the eye will do the job.

[BobT]

If a deer is perfectly broadside I'll aim as tight as I can to the shoulder without actually hitting bone. With a much more likely quartering shot I want to hit bone. If the presentation is quartering to me I'll try to hit the near shoulder and quartering away I'll shoot for the offside shoulder.

Any of you can't miss head shooters ever seen a deer starving to death with a broken jaw? A head shot is the most irresponsible shot that can be taken on an unwounded deer and shows a complete lack of respect for that animal.

[Tripplebeards]

Any of you can't miss head shooters ever seen a deer starving to death with a broken jaw? A head shot is the most irresponsible shot that can be taken on an unwounded deer and shows a complete lack of respect for that animal.

Every time I hear somebody posting or saying, they’re gonna shoot a deer in the head I just wanna knock their teeth out and take away their guns. Sorry… but it’s just the way I feel. Head shots are reserved for trap line raccoons, and possums to put them instantly out of their misery and also squirrels and rabbits. When a deer winds up in some liberal’s backyard with a broken jaw or or some other kind of gunshot wound just because somebody thought they were a class A sniper or “dead eye Dick” makes us all look bad. Most of those “so-called” marksman don’t even realize they did a poorly placed shot and figured they just missed the deer. I see deer like that running and limping through my property when gun hunting almost every other year from our neighbors. If I wouldn’t be put in jail from going up and beating them to a pulp it would’ve already happened. If you wanna shoot a wounded deer that you’ve already put an improperly placed shot on and finish it off with a headshot at point blank more power to you. I completely understand that scenario. But if you’re just going out and taking head shots at deer you have no business hunting or being in the woods. I’m sure we’ve all done it at one point in time. I’m guilty of it as well but I can tell you after I did it once 30 years years ago and watched the deer get back up and run away. I felt so bad I almost quit hunting. How would you like to get shot in the eye or in the jaw and then run around for a month hoping that you’ll quickly freeze to death, get hit by a car, or have a coyote take you out instead of slowly starving to death? Predators small game environments I have zero cares about but a deer is one of those things that get people in trouble when it limp into somebody’s backyard it makes national news then everybody wants to go after our guns and make us quit hunting.

[Arthur Roy]

I have always shot for the heart. I pay no attention to angles either. I have taken numerous deer with a hard quartering away shot that I actually held on the hind quarter. Every time the bullet has exited taking the heart or lungs out on its way. These shots have all been taken with a revolver from 30-100ish yards.

[M-Tecs]

Every time I hear somebody posting or saying, they’re gonna shoot a deer in the head I just wanna knock their teeth out and take away their guns. Sorry… but it’s just the way I feel. Head shots are reserved for trap line raccoons, and possums to put them instantly out of their misery and also squirrels and rabbits. When a deer winds up in some liberal’s backyard with a broken jaw or or some other kind of gunshot wound just because somebody thought they were a class A sniper or “dead eye Dick” makes us all look bad. Most of those “so-called” marksman don’t even realize they did a poorly placed shot and figured they just missed the deer. I see deer like that running and limping through my property when gun hunting almost every other year from our neighbors. If I wouldn’t be put in jail from going up and beating them to a pulp it would’ve already happened. If you wanna shoot a wounded deer that you’ve already put an improperly placed shot on and finish it off with a headshot at point blank more power to you. I completely understand that scenario. But if you’re just going out and taking head shots at deer you have no business hunting or being in the woods. I’m sure we’ve all done it at one point in time. I’m guilty of it as well but I can tell you after I did it once 30 years years ago and watched the deer get back up and run away. I felt so bad I almost quit hunting. How would you like to get shot in the eye or in the jaw and then run around for a month hoping that you’ll quickly freeze to death, get hit by a car, or have a coyote take you out instead of slowly starving to death? Predators small game environments I have zero cares about but a deer is one of those things that get people in trouble when it limp into somebody’s backyard it makes national news then everybody wants to go after our guns and make us quit hunting.

From 1970 to 2005 I deer hunted on land next to an open management area the was mostly swamp and tall grass. Due to the vegetation people that hunted there took a lot of head shot since that was all they could see. The result was lots of deer came thru the area I hunted with lower jaws and noses shot off. One year I put 3 out of their misery. Thru the years total was a couple of dozen or more. Unless it was the first or second day of the season they were left for coyote food.

[cherokeetracker]

I usually prefer a double shoulder or high shoulder shot. If not then I take what I can get. I do not use the Texas heart shot.
Here is a 400 grain cast from a 500 JRH. Deer was facing directly away from me.325613

[Hamish]

Pokes holes in both airbags=Death

[Wolfdog91]

I'll never understand how taking head shots on deer type game is common and accepted as just something a good hunting should be able to do ( other wise you have no business in the field) I'm most of the world but it's so frowned upon in the US .

Then again I see how seriously my friends from across the pond take stuff compared the the average Americans hunter so guess I can't say I completely dis agree. Good nuff pie plate 3MOA @100yd accuracy is just unacceptable for most of them. Mean hold most Americans , big middle big blood trail , track. Most just plain arnt willing to spend the time or money to get to where you can competently take a head shot . Same with LR hunting.

I gotta say though after seeing some people stands ,the fact they got close to a bunch rest set up in the tings and how much they spend on their rifles you'd figure within 100yd ...... Idk I just find it weird when i watch these guys double lung a Southern whitetail from 80yd outta a box stand shooting off a rest and have it run 60yd with a 300 ultra whatever but I can drop a 300lbs hog with a CNS shot at 150 with a .223 ? Idk the math ain't mathing much to me but whatever I don't shoot deer mainly hogs but I just ..idk

[versa-06]

I don't even try for head shots on deer, too much risk it turning it's head at the last min. I usually shoot lung & heart shots unless I need to plant him where he stands then it's a high shoulder shot if possible. -06

[Outer Rondacker]

I'll never understand how taking head shots on deer type game is common and accepted as just something a good hunting should be able to do ( other wise you have no business in the field) I'm most of the world but it's so frowned upon in the US .

Then again I see how seriously my friends from across the pond take stuff compared the the average Americans hunter so guess I can't say I completely dis agree. Good nuff pie plate 3MOA @100yd accuracy is just unacceptable for most of them. Mean hold most Americans , big middle big blood trail , track. Most just plain arnt willing to spend the time or money to get to where you can competently take a head shot . Same with LR hunting.

I gotta say though after seeing some people stands ,the fact they got close to a bunch rest set up in the tings and how much they spend on their rifles you'd figure within 100yd ...... Idk I just find it weird when i watch these guys double lung a Southern whitetail from 80yd outta a box stand shooting off a rest and have it run 60yd with a 300 ultra whatever but I can drop a 300lbs hog with a CNS shot at 150 with a .223 ? Idk the math ain't mathing much to me but whatever I don't shoot deer mainly hogs but I just ..idk


I don't even try for head shots on deer, too much risk it turning it's head at the last min. I usually shoot lung & heart shots unless I need to plant him where he stands then it's a high shoulder shot if possible. -06

Guys I feel like I should explain my head shot reasoning. I do not shoot at running game. I hardly ever get a 75 yrd shot on big game. Its mostly closer. I shoot on a daily bases 1/2 inch targets with most of my scoped rifles at 50,75,100, and 121 yrds. The 121 yrd target is one inch. 22 air gun to 308. I honestly choose 243 win for deer. I shoot off a bench or on a Tri-pod, Bi-pod. Sure I fail to connect 1 out of 10 shots on the bigger guns. 22s and 223s I rarely ever miss. Its kinda not fun honestly. I am not great just have put my time in to get to where I am. I was told very long ago by and old timer when I was hungry you dont eat the head. It could of been a 30 pointer and I could not afford then or now to get it mounted so head it is. I would never take a head shot on a running animal. Let me ask where to you shoot the first pig you harvest before the bullets start flying? Every video I have watch shows head. Wolfdog is correct overseas head shots are the norm. They also take jack deer to the food pantry to give away the meat. Just adding some more info on a different point of view. Keep doing what works for you is what I think.

[M-Tecs]

Hunting ethics and morals are a regional and personal issue. While it is true that headshots are more common in some countries it is all true the laws and hunting styles are different. I know people that deer hunt in city parks in Germany with suppressed rifles. When they pull the trigger, their tag is filled regardless of if they hit or miss. They tend not to miss. They also have to remove the bloody soil if they field dress on site. No hair, no blood no nothing can be left that would indicate a deer was killed at that spot. In some other countries if you wound an animal but don't recover your tag is filled.

While under the right circumstances I will take a head shot I will never recommend it for the preferred shot placement for deer. The first deer I hit was a medium sized buck. I was 10 years old bow hunting. I made a bad shot that resulted in a gut shot. Dad I jumped it a couple of times over 3 day until we found it dead on the third day after the coyotes got on it. Judging for the scene it was still alive an put up a struggle. That bothered me greatly. I vowed to do better. Between archery, muzzleloader, handgun and rifle I've lost one with the rifle out of well over 300 big game animals.

Others view lost game differently. I know some that have less than a 50% recovery rate. Different animals are viewed differently also. I grew up in ranch country and you were expected to shoot at every coyote you see as long as it was safe. I've wounded a lot of coyotes.

Also, I find headshots the least desirable from a quality of meat standpoint. Archery killed meat tend to have less blood in it even compared to double lung rifle. One year I had my buck tag, my dads buck tag and a bonus doe tag. About five minutes after the season open two bucks were chasing a doe. I dropped the biggest buck first with a double lung. Next was the doe and last was the second buck with a head shot. It was confused as to where the shots were coming from, and it had stopped with only the head exposed. I field dressed them in the order I shot them. It was maybe 30 minutes until I gutted it. When I gutted the deer it did not bleed out very well. After it was skinned it oozed blood like I have never seen before. The meat was also a bloody nasty mess. That had not been an issue on the other deer I've head shot but they were gutted almost immediately.

If you are killing 100% of the animals you head shoot no one criticize that. If you take a head shot and think you missed (cause it didn't drop) yet your neighbor has to kill a deer with a shot off jaw or snout you are very much open to criticism. I don't like having to illegally cleaning up other people's messes.


One thing about brain shots that needs to be kept in mind is that there is zero blood loss. Field dressing ASAP helps even though the heart isn't pumping any blood out. I first discovered that when I had three tags. Two buck tags and a doe tag. Two bucks were following a doe. I dropped the biggest buck on the spot. Second shot put the doe down about 50 feet away. The second buck turned at the second shot and ran between the two downed deer. It stopped and I shot it through the brain. I dragged them together to field dress them. I did the brain shot last. After skinning brain shot buck the amount of blood oozing out was like something out of a horror movie. Same for the meat. Taste was adversely affected. The other two were normal. The first buck was a neck shot and the doe was a shoulder shot.

Later I helped skinning and processing 23 deer headshot by LE in a metro herd reduction. Most weren't field dressed for several hours. They all oozed blood after skinning and the meat was a bloody mess.


From 1970 to 2005 I deer hunted on land next to an open management area the was mostly swamp and tall grass. Due to the vegetation people that hunted there took a lot of head shot since that was all they could see. The result was lots of deer came thru the area I hunted with lower jaws and noses shot off. One year I put 3 out of their misery. Thru the years total was a couple of dozen or more. Unless it was the first or second day of the season they were left for coyote food.

IMHO headshots have a place for people that are close to 100% recovery of the animal for every shot fired. For people that take a shot and state I missed because it didn't go down not so much.

[Winger Ed.]

i watch these guys double lung a Southern whitetail from 80yd outta a box stand shooting off a rest and have it run 60yd with a 300 ultra whatever but I can drop a 300lbs hog with a CNS shot at 150 with a .223 ? Idk the math ain't mathing much to me but whatever I don't shoot deer mainly hogs but I just ..idk

I've wondered about that too.
My guess is the bullet is traveling so fast, and is too hard or too pointed so it can't/doesn't expand fast enough.
It goes in & out before it can expand unless it hit a bone to either expand, or create a shock wave causing damage.

I've shot deer with a few different kinds of 90% full pressure jacketed in .30 and .270 cal.
If it slipped between bones, the wound channel was less than spectacular.
Hitting one with a .30 cal. RN or SP cast at the same range, same rifle, and in pretty much the same place---
it looked like a baseball went through there.

[M-Tecs]

I've wondered about that too.
My guess is the bullet is traveling so fast, and is too hard or too pointed so it can't/doesn't expand fast enough.
It goes in & out before it can expand unless it hit a bone to either expand, or create a shock wave causing damage.

I've shot deer with a few different kinds of 90% full pressure jacketed in .30 and .270 cal.
If it slipped between bones, the wound channel was less than spectacular.
Hitting one with a .30 cal. RN or SP cast at the same range, same rifle, and in pretty much the same place---
it looked like a baseball went through there.

Speed increases expansion and hydrostatic shock period. Bullet design and construction also plays into the energy transfer. AP won't expand on game regardless of speed. A good visual is shoot a prairie dog with a FMJ at 1,200 FPS verse 4,000 FPS. Only one will show any type of explosive affects.

Most hunting show are sponsored and using free supplied premium bullets that are generally designed for very control expansion to maximize penetration and minimize meat loss. With jacked being pointy has zero influence on expansion. Nosler Ballistic Tips out of a 270 or 30 cal with Nosler BT don't need to hit a rib to be very explosive. I find them to destroy too much meat, so I don't use them for shooting deer. Lot and lots of very long pointy jacketed varmint bullets available that will turn a PD into a ball of pink mist.

One of the people I hunted with used a 300 Weatherby Mag with 125 grain Nosler Ballistic tips at around 4,200 FPS. Very little of the deer was usable but it dropped them like the Hammer of Thor.

[Outer Rondacker]

Would you guys say its acceptable to use a 223 cal with a 55g bullet going 2950ish to harvest a deer?

Regardless the answer then would you say its ok to be using a 55g bullet at just under 4100 fps? This is what I shoot out of my 243 win. 4080ish and yes I know its smoking and a hot load. Guys there is no bullet to recover on a head shot. Not bragging but I have 100% harvest rate to this day. Guess I am just lucky. Now if you will excuse me I need to go load some 405g 45-70s to go squirrel hunting. Just making some fun I am glad you guys are here to talk to all my hunting buddies are dried up and I can not take another 30-06 BS story.

[lightload]

I grew up in Wolfdog's area and hunted in the county north of him. I never knew anybody who took head shots on deer and never heard of it either. I understand his point.

[versa-06]

As was stated earlier; I have found that a deer doesn't bleed out well with a head shot. That's another reason why I don't prefer to shoot them in the head.

[McMullen759]

Wow, not gonna lie boys- I am jealous. 'Round here you get 1 deer a year, maybe two if you also do archery and have a lucky year. That said I'm not a seasoned hunter-killer, I've taken a few and same basic placement on all. Longest run was about 10yds from point of impact and that one was smacked mid leap as it was jumping into the woodline from a farmer's field (must admit I'm rather proud of that shot :). All were heart shots, my first deer- a little button buck- took it front on, low center and dropped out of sight before I had recovered from the recoil. Never saw something drop so fast. The others were all side on and I went low behind the shoulder. All were missing arteries at the top of the heart, on at least 2 the heart was never recovered as it was in pieces like hamburger. If it's available I'll always take the heart shot. Hydrostatic shock blows out the lungs, massive internal bleeding into chest cavity and they just drop, if they do run it won't be far. It also offers a greater margin for error than something like neck or brain shots and ensures the meat is well-bled. My protocol is to stop and have a smoke break after the shot, once went in too soon (my father in law's kill, not mine) and spooked her and we tracked that friggin' thing over an hour and bumped it a couple more times in the process before there was a shot available. That was a high-rear lung shot, both lungs were blown and she just kept going. A valuable learning experience for a young fella like me at the time.
Heart if you can- shoulder if you can't- neck if those aren't clear shots. YMMV