Favorite cast bullet - Snub Nose 38 Spl

[Hi-Speed]

What is your favorite cast SD/HD bullet and load in 38 Spl standard velocity for use in snub noses? Anytime type, SWC, RNL, DEWC, HBWC…

I’m leaning towards a classic 150gr - 158 gr SWC, Lyman 358477 for instance, or your generic cast 158 gr SWC. 4.7 grs Unique, 4.0 grs W231 or 3.5 grs Bullseye are working out well for me in the accuracy and controllability departments using both the bullets mentioned (Firearm S&W 442 1 7/8”).

I understand some people prefer a cast DEWC full wadcutter load. But these are difficult to reload with your standard speed strips or speed loaders. For my reloads I prefer a 158 gr RNL (Lyman 358311) with 3.5 grs Bullseye or 4.0 grs W231 in speed strips…quick to reload and they adequately penetrate from short barrels. I know I’ll hear that 158 gr RNL are ineffective but I hear other arguments to the contrary.

Overall, I think a standard velocity 38 Spl using 158 grs bullets is satisfactory for SD/HD.

[44MAG#1]

Pettyplace and his VIRGEL app will show you what you need when it comes to defensive calibers and ammo. It is eye opening.
I like the Lee 150 gr Wadcutter and is what I carry in my 38 Special pocket revolver.
I only carry it at home though. If I go out with a revolver to carry which is most of the time now I carry either a 2.5 inch GP100 with 158 gr Mag ammo or a Smith 2.75 inch M69 44 Mag with a 245 gr loaded to around 750 fps
I don't plan on being in a firefight. If I did I would carry a 1911 45 Auto or a Glock M30 with a New York reload.

[Thin Man]

I have seen several recommendations for WC style projectiles in the snub noses revolvers to get the full impact from flat faced full diameter boolits. The thing about these that troubled me was their deep-seated length stole space in the case and reduced room for powder before chamber pressures rose too high to get the muzzle velocity I hoped to achieve. Time passed until I saw pictures of the Modern-Bond wadcutter molds #D-358582 (150 gr.) and D-358627 (160 gr.). These boolits have a nose that extends outside of the case like the Lyman 358477 but it is wider all the way forward from the case to the front end. Over the years I acquired molds for both of these patterns and gave both several range tests. The 150 grain boolits give me slightly tighter groups over the 160 grain style but they are close enough that either would work for their purpose. Their full WC design gets more of the "business end" of the boolit out of the barrel than any SWC. The down side is that these molds are rarely found on the typical auction sites. I feel fortunate to have both weight patterns to test but could be satisfied with either one if that was all that was available.

[Bigslug]

Not a wheel that needs reinventing. Winchester's loading a 130 grain flat pointed FMJ that I'd be totally OK with. That, or anything with that basic WFN profile up to 200 grains. Keith-type SWC? Tomato tomahto.

[44MAG#1]

I have seen several recommendations for WC style projectiles in the snub noses revolvers to get the full impact from flat faced full diameter boolits. The thing about these that troubled me was their deep-seated length stole space in the case and reduced room for powder before chamber pressures rose too high to get the muzzle velocity I hoped to achieve. Time passed until I saw pictures of the Modern-Bond wadcutter molds #D-358582 (150 gr.) and D-358627 (160 gr.). These boolits have a nose that extends outside of the case like the Lyman 358477 but it is wider all the way forward from the case to the front end. Over the years I acquired molds for both of these patterns and gave both several range tests. The 150 grain boolits give me slightly tighter groups over the 160 grain style but they are close enough that either would work for their purpose. Their full WC design gets more of the "business end" of the boolit out of the barrel than any SWC. The down side is that these molds are rarely found on the typical auction sites. I feel fortunate to have both weight patterns to test but could be satisfied with either one if that was all that was available.
I don't seat the Lee WC full depth. Being a handloader is being an experimenter. There is no set rule on seating depth in some situations. The way I seat the 150 Lee is such that it is no deeper in the case than the Lyman 156 Thompson SWC.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I don't seat the Lee WC full depth. Being a handloader is being an experimenter. There is no set rule on seating depth in some situations. The way I seat the 150 Lee is such that it is no deeper in the case than the Lyman 156 Thompson SWC.

I’m working on something similar. Are you willing to share the results of your experiments?

[rintinglen]

MP 360-640L works for me. Hollowpoint boolit that functions well in speed loaders, what's not to like?

[racepres]

I don't seat the Lee WC full depth. Being a handloader is being an experimenter. There is no set rule on seating depth in some situations. The way I seat the 150 Lee is such that it is no deeper in the case than the Lyman 156 Thompson SWC.

We talking about the Lee Button nose??
I like that one alot!!

[lightman]

Its hard to beat a Keith type 150 grain SWC.

[Texas by God]

Either the Lee 150gr SWC or the Speer swaged 158gr swchp over 3.5 grs of Red Dot. Hits to POA in my snub nose and 4” .38 revolvers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

150gr Long nose WC

[mnewcomb59]

My favorite 38 special bullet is a bullet similar but heavier than the old FBI load. I think the FBI load is about as good as it gets for a snub, but everybody's load is way lighter than it used to be. For a modern take on the FBI load you gotta get some Buffalo Bore or Underwood SWCHP. 158 SWCHP barely penetrates to the FBI minimum.

You can improve on the old FBI load by using a HP version of the Ranch Dog bullet. It is an improvement because it is 168-169 gr so it penetrates a little deeper and will reliably get you 13-14" penetration.

[tazman]

Lyman 358432 in it's 148 grain form. It is designed to be seated to the same OAL as a semiwadcutter, giving you the same powder capacity. Full power loads are easily achieved.
They are very accurate. The only drawback I have found is the speed of reloading the revolver due to the shape of the nose.
Second choice would be a RNFP design. The Lee model works well in my revolvers.

[gwpercle]

The original Lyman # 358432 ... which is an Ogiveal Wadcutter , 160 grains , solid base .
This mould has been discontinued by Lyman but ...
NOE makes this design in 3 , 4 & 5 cavity aluminum # 360-160-WC PB .
It's design makes it an accuracy winner and the flat point hits hard .
NOE has hollow and penta points for this one if you like hollow points .
Just try it once!

My 160 gr. boolits hit to all my 38 special fixed sights , I have 2" , 3" and 4" bbl revolvers .
Gary

[FISH4BUGS]

H&G #51 w/ 4.0gr WW231. Loaded THOUSANDS of them and shot them in my flat latch 2" sb 36 or the 3" sb 36 that is MagnaPorted.
Plus shooting them from the 2" 640, 4" 15 and the 6" 28.
It is the perfect round.
You get 1750 per pound of powder.

[pworley1]

140g SWC works great in my model 36.

[Char-Gar]

This over 3.5/BE

[ShooterAZ]

My personal favorites are the RCBS 38-140-CM, or the RCBS 38-158-CM. They are both a RF design which makes them quicker to load with a speedloader, as compared to a SWC. I really do like the RCBS 38-150-SWC as well, it just doesn't load as easily. They will all shoot to the sights of my 2" & 3" model 10's, and are all very accurate in my guns. I load them all with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. Unfortunately it appears that both of the CM (Cowboy Mold) molds have been discontinued, at least according to Midway.

[BD]

158 grain RNFP. Works well and will fly accurately out past 100 yards.

[Kosh75287]

For the first rounds in/out of the revolver, I'd want 158-160 gr. LSWCs or LSWCHPs, loaded as fast as accuracy and controllability will allow. In the Speed Strips/Speed Loaders, I'd want the projectile pictured below, loaded over the same charge as the LSWCs/LSWCHPs.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=267

[Chena]

If you feel inclined to step things up a notch, I can recommend a S&W Model 60 (j-frame .357, 3”) using the Lee .358-158-RNF loaded +P. It shot well for me in two different revolvers. The Model 60 is comfortable to carry in a Simply Rugged pancake holster or a Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster. If I remember correctly the Simply Rugged can be ordered in a neutral drop, which makes it useful for either cross draw or strong side carry. I am only average size, but either holster gave good concealment with a vest or over shirt.

[Loudenboomer]

Char-Gar I load the same 148 over 3.5 gr bullseye seated to standard depth it gets a little warm. Next time I load a batch I want to do more experimenting with hallow base wad cutters seated up side down. I'd like to try seating them out farther for a slower pressure spike.

[405grain]

For 38 special & 357 mag, I use the RCBS 38-158-SWC in my 2.75" Ruger security six. It just works.

[Kosh75287]

I'd ALSO be tempted to look quite seriously at THIS design, if the sharp corner of the WFN would not inhibit reloading the revolver's cylinder. If it is a problem, a little work on the extractor star might put things right.

https://arsenalmolds.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=12&product_id=213&page=2

[nvbirdman]

And of course there is nothing wrong with full wadcutters in the gun and round nose in the speedloader.

[OS OK]

Wad cutters in .38S & .357M, I like the Lyman 358432 Wad cutter designed by H. A. Nott, cuts very clean holes and is most popular for .357 Mag. and .38 Spec. cartridges. (PB, SWC, 160 - TP is 429)
These are PC'd in a color I call 'Old Lead'...

https://i.imgur.com/0iBdEMN.jpg

My snubbie favorite is the Lyman 358430 Designed by John Leonard of Avon, Conn. Very accurate in the .38 Spec. (PB, RN, 150, 200 - TP is 430).

https://i.imgur.com/fl3y4xv.jpg

Cast from 10 ~ 11 BHN Isotope lead + a little tin sweetener, I shot it against an electrical box cover, light steel...I thought it might splatter & disintegrate and was surprised...

https://i.imgur.com/NzDXdjD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ATdbGKR.jpg

Once carried by the Police Departments around the US, they called this the 'Super Police Load' ... Cops universally referred to this cast round as the 'Pelvis Breaker' ... you will see why in this video ... it is a 'Slow Freight Train.
The loads & chrono data are in the video below...

200g 38S Jug Busters _ Super Police Load of yesteryear


https://youtu.be/UK969_kkeIM

I was happy with the penetration on water filled milk jugs...it busted through 5 jugs and still had enough speed left to destroy itself in my steel lead catcher backstop.
If I remember correctly...I think 'Gun Sam' on the Y-Tube says that penetrating a water filled milk jug equals about 2.5" of gel...so 5 jugs = 12.5" of gel @ 772 FPS.

EDIT: I was looking back in Gun Sams videos and found this one but he is testing a little bit different cast...still 200+ grains & low velocity but Sam does a much better video review than I...

Tumbling .38's! Old School .38 Super-Police VS Fort Scott Tui


https://youtu.be/-WroVmr_16s

[centershot]

In a revolver, a RNFP is much easier to load/reload quickly. I use a Lee 158 RNFP cast of pure lead, loaded over 5.0 grains of Unique, or 5.4 grains if you want a +P load.

[ACC]

Pettyplace and his VIRGEL app will show you what you need when it comes to defensive calibers and ammo. It is eye opening.
I like the Lee 150 gr Wadcutter and is what I carry in my 38 Special pocket revolver.
I only carry it at home though. If I go out with a revolver to carry which is most of the time now I carry either a 2.5 inch GP100 with 158 gr Mag ammo or a Smith 2.75 inch M69 44 Mag with a 245 gr loaded to around 750 fps
I don't plan on being in a firefight. If I did I would carry a 1911 45 Auto or a Glock M30 with a New York reload.

What is the URL for this Prettyplace?

ACC

[fredj338]

Dead soft LSWHP @ +p vel. Forget a reload, in a fight, you wont have time, even with a speed loader.

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar I load the same 148 over 3.5 gr bullseye seated to standard depth it gets a little warm. Next time I load a batch I want to do more experimenting with hallow base wad cutters seated up side down. I'd like to try seating them out farther for a slower pressure spike.

You will note in my pic, I crimped the case in the top lube groove, to give more room for the fire to do it's thing.

[LAH]

I use this at 158 grains. If it expands fine, if it doesn't I can live with it.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/NOE%20360-160-WFN-HP/.highres/20150302_092655.jpg

[Electrod47]

My Fav for my 1972 Charter Arms .38 Undercover in .38 ( the only thing I shoot in it) 3.8 grains of Red Dot under a store bought 148 grain DEWC. I get 775ft/pr/sec average and easy double action control one handed.

[gwpercle]

This over 3.5/BE

Is that the 148 gr. version of Lyman 358432 ?
Gary

[jdgabbard]

Well, historically in 38spl I was a big fan of the 358477 over 4.2gr of Unique. It has proven to be a very accurate load for me. And for target work, the H&G #50 (or Lyman 358495) over 3.0gr of Bullseye with only one lube groove lubed. Those two loads are superbly accurate in my guns.

However, after finally shoot up the remainder of my loaded ammo I decided to venture out and see what else I could play with. One thing I have gone back to is the 358311 over 4.0gr of Unique. This is an accurate, and mild recoiling, load that I find pleasant to shoot even in my air-weight like Taurus 85. I think I may bump up the charge to 4.2gr, but the first go with 4.0 made me happy. The other thing I've been playing with is the MP357-125-HP with Penta pins over 5.0gr of Unique. So far I'm just in the testing phase, and I'm using the data for the RCBS 125gr TC, but I'm liking it. It is very accurate in my S&W 65. Surprisingly, this seems to be a little on the hotter end. Going off memory (since I'm do not have my manual next to me) I think the Lyman data goes up towards around 5.7gr max.

But if you want to see some REALLY HOT loads, go check out the data starting on page 129 of the 44th Edition Lyman manual. (https://www.nzha.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Lyman44.pdf) THAT is some hot loads. The modern Lyman load for the 358242 120gr bullet tops out at 5.7gr of Unique for 1012fps. That old Lyman 44th Edition listed a 358242 up to 6.9gr of Unique for 1132 FPS, which is also their recommended load for accuracy (the max load that is). And up to 12.5gr of 2400 for 1120 FPS. I have no idea of Unique or 2400 have been reformulated over the years since the 44th was released. But I'll say this, that sounds like some very capable loads. If one were to work these up they might want to do so in a 357mag.....

[mnewcomb59]

Well, historically in 38spl I was a big fan of the 358477 over 4.2gr of Unique. It has proven to be a very accurate load for me. And for target work, the H&G #50 (or Lyman 358495) over 3.0gr of Bullseye with only one lube groove lubed. Those two loads are superbly accurate in my guns.

However, after finally shoot up the remainder of my loaded ammo I decided to venture out and see what else I could play with. One thing I have gone back to is the 358311 over 4.0gr of Unique. This is an accurate, and mild recoiling, load that I find pleasant to shoot even in my air-weight like Taurus 85. I think I may bump up the charge to 4.2gr, but the first go with 4.0 made me happy. The other thing I've been playing with is the MP357-125-HP with Penta pins over 5.0gr of Unique. So far I'm just in the testing phase, and I'm using the data for the RCBS 125gr TC, but I'm liking it. It is very accurate in my S&W 65. Surprisingly, this seems to be a little on the hotter end. Going off memory (since I'm do not have my manual next to me) I think the Lyman data goes up towards around 5.7gr max.

But if you want to see some REALLY HOT loads, go check out the data starting on page 129 of the 44th Edition Lyman manual. (https://www.nzha.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Lyman44.pdf) THAT is some hot loads. The modern Lyman load for the 358242 120gr bullet tops out at 5.7gr of Unique for 1012fps. That old Lyman 44th Edition listed a 358242 up to 6.9gr of Unique for 1132 FPS, which is also their recommended load for accuracy (the max load that is). And up to 12.5gr of 2400 for 1120 FPS. I have no idea of Unique or 2400 have been reformulated over the years since the 44th was released. But I'll say this, that sounds like some very capable loads. If one were to work these up they might want to do so in a 357mag.....

Alliant still lists 6.0 gr Unique with a 125 gr lead bullet as standard pressure. https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=5&weight=125&shellid=8&bulletid=9

[jdgabbard]

Alliant still lists 6.0 gr Unique with a 125 gr lead bullet as standard pressure. https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=5&weight=125&shellid=8&bulletid=9

That’s only 0.3gr short of the Lyman load for the 358242. And almost a full grain shy of old Lyman load. Though it’s 0.7gr higher than the Lyman load for the Lee 125gr RF. Good to know for my 357-125-HP load though. I have some room to move up if I chose to… I probably should get a few newer manuals. I’ve always relied mostly on the Lyman manual since it had the most data for lead. But I fear they’re starting to fear attorneys, as there dropping certain powders and charge weights…

[honus]

In a revolver, a RNFP is much easier to load/reload quickly. I use a Lee 158 RNFP cast of pure lead, loaded over 5.0 grains of Unique, or 5.4 grains if you want a +P load.

It works!

[HWooldridge]

I started with this load: "...or your generic cast 158 gr SWC. & 4.0 grs W231..." and never tried anything else. I have killed a few hogs and other varmints using this (although more of a coup de grace up close rather than a typical hunting scenario). The hogs were shot at close range - either in the head or behind the shoulders (the gun is a S&W 642 Air Weight). I'd say about half of the shots went all the way through and exited - the rest stopped somewhere inside the animal. In all cases, it only took one shot to finish them. I believe most anyone hit with a .38 lead SWC will go "Oooof!, that hurt!" unless they are wearing body armor, which is essentially what the FBI concluded.

[georgerkahn]

What is your favorite cast SD/HD bullet and load in 38 Spl standard velocity for use in snub noses? Anytime type, SWC, RNL, DEWC, HBWC…

I’m leaning towards a classic 150gr - 158 gr SWC, Lyman 358477 for instance, or your generic cast 158 gr SWC. 4.7 grs Unique, 4.0 grs W231 or 3.5 grs Bullseye are working out well for me in the accuracy and controllability departments using both the bullets mentioned (Firearm S&W 442 1 7/8”).

I understand some people prefer a cast DEWC full wadcutter load. But these are difficult to reload with your standard speed strips or speed loaders. For my reloads I prefer a 158 gr RNL (Lyman 358311) with 3.5 grs Bullseye or 4.0 grs W231 in speed strips…quick to reload and they adequately penetrate from short barrels. I know I’ll hear that 158 gr RNL are ineffective but I hear other arguments to the contrary.

Overall, I think a standard velocity 38 Spl using 158 grs bullets is satisfactory for SD/HD.

For me, through many years I was confident with a H&G 148gn wadcutter seated NOT flush (as for S&W Model 52) case mouth, but instead using the top lub groove for crimping -- to afford use of a speed loader -- propelled with 2.7 grains of Bullseye -- this in a S&W Model 60 2" .38. It was a true eye-opener on veggies and fruit at 12-foot range!
geo

[owejia]

Load for my j frame S&W chief's special. Two powder coated .360 rb stacked sized to .358, over 4 gr HP 38,1.325 oal with .oo3-.005 roll crimp. Carried in a vest inside on left side with two speed strip reloads. That is 140 grs of lead, making 10 holes. Vest has carry pocket on both sides for left or right hand. Am going to experiment more this spring with Bullseye powder. Tested this load at 7 yrds and found could keep all holes in a small 6-8 in circle. Round balls penetrate ballistic gel very well according to Fletchers testing. Also pocket carry in cargo pants pocket in warm weather. At 76 yrs old no speedy fast draws but always try to be aware of all things going on around me, avoid going to bad places when possible. Am quite comfortable with this load with my Chief's Special.

[LAH]

At 76 yrs old no speedy fast draws but always try to be aware of all things going on around me, avoid going to bad places when possible. Am quite comfortable with this load with my Chief's Special.

Well said. Being aware is most of the battle.

[Hanzy4200]

I don't load cast for any defensive ammo. Modern bonded jacket HP's are superior.

[Recycled bullet]

359 hammers chrome powder coated over 5 grains of Winchester Auto Comp. They shoot accurately and look like metal ash trays.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230205/65e0f3cf99ed0bc89f2670ab28cbd230.jpg

[jsizemore]

I got a Accurate 36-125D that makes it easy to load from a speed loader. Conventional lube or PC. Shoot more PC nowadays. Does real well in my bodyguard and accurate to 30 yards. I fought hand feeding and trying to load at the range. Switched to this bullet and all is well. Use the gun to teach beginners with smallish hands the basics. NO complaints whatsoever. Easy to load and recoil is mild. If I need a bigger hole, the 45ACP gets used or S&W19 with some magnum load.

[curiousgeorge]

My Model 36 no dash normally gets loaded with H&G #50 wadcutter seated flush and 2.7 grs Bullseye or crimped in top lube groove and 3.0 grs Bullseye for standard non plus p loads.
I have tried the 358156 and 5.5 grs AA #5 again for non +p loads and they seem ok. Don't want any extra stress on my old Model 36. Been a faithful companion for many, many years. Also discovered that standard velocity wadcutters do a lot more damage on man or beast soft tissue than they are given credit for.

[compass will]

I just started loading/casting again with 38 special. I have the 140G Lee LSWC PC @ .358 over 4.8g of Winchester 572. (I use the 572 because I have a lot of it because I also reload 20 gauge).
Leaning on the bench this load is as accrete as 130g jacked factory practice ammo. they are fun through my model 60 and 686, but not something I would try to shoot a bunch through my 637.
Last night I loaded a 3 boxes @ 4.8 and 1 box @ 4.2g. I bet the 4.2 will be softer in the 637 for playing. Interested to see how well they shoot in the 60/686 as well. Fastest might not be most accrete.