Factory Buckhorn easier than aperture?

[huntinlever]

Guys, I've been through at least 3 Skinner purchases trying to avoid using a scope on my 45-70 guide gun. It's nothing about the Skinners - I esteem these sights as high as it gets. It's me. Last time I tried was in 2015 when I gave up and mounted a Leu fixed 2.5X on board. As far as scopes go, I think it's pretty well-suited to my hunting purposes. Low power, lower profile, not as likely to snag and quick sight acquisition.

But I can't get iron sights out of my mind. I see an eye doctor early next month and I'm going to ask him for a solution, if possible, to dial in for 30" (about the distance to my front post) and yet still be able to see reasonably well at distance.

Now the weird question. Do any of you guys (most especially guys with aging/aged eyes) find factory buckhorns easier to deal with than aperture sights? I can pick up my son's great grandpa's old, octagonal barrel 38-55 with it's little buckhorn and as with all these sights, my sight acquisition is so much quicker and beyond, somehow, the alignment of the post in the narrow archway of the rear sight with the target, just feels more natural to me. I find both eyes open in either peeps - or, this is weird - scopes, brings on all kinds of issues and eye strain with much sustained time on the range at all. I don't find that with Buckhorns and find that weird.

Let me add I grew up on lever guns and hunted with just the factory sights all my young life. I was a good and quick shot. I had great eyes, which helped. But now my eyes are just old and tired. Toying with taking off the scope and, now that I have the load locked in, getting to the range and trying to sight-in and shoot with just the factory open sights. But I fear another round of "dang. Have to scope...."

Your $0.02?

[HWooldridge]

I'm 64 and grew up shooting iron sights - I preferred them to scopes until I couldn't see anymore; barrel sights were great until they weren't...and I have drifted toward scopes for about the past ten years.

On the other hand, I have less trouble with aperture sights and tang mounted are about the best for my vision. In fact, I was sighting in a 44 carbine with the barrel sights and couldn't do better than about 4" at 50 yards - so I removed the buckhorn and installed a Marble style tang. With no other changes, my groups dropped to 1"-2" - so I knew it wasn't the gun.

PS - I also grew up on lever actions. Started with a Marlin 39 in .22 and moved to a variety of makes and calibers after I got old enough to buy my own.

[huntinlever]

I'm 64 and grew up shooting iron sights - I preferred them to scopes until I couldn't see anymore; barrel sights were great until they weren't...and I have drifted toward scopes for about the past ten years.

On the other hand, I have less trouble with aperture sights and tang mounted are about the best for my vision. In fact, I was sighting in a 44 carbine with the barrel sights and couldn't do better than about 4" at 50 yards - so I removed the buckhorn and installed a Marble style tang. With no other changes, my groups dropped to 1"-2" - so I knew it wasn't the gun.

PS - I also grew up on lever actions. Started with a Marlin 39 in .22 and moved to a variety of makes and calibers after I got old enough to buy my own.

Thanks. Boy I've went ahead and done it - pulled the scope. My first gun was a Marlin 1892. I loved that gun, hunted chaparral for jack rabbits. That heavy octagonal barrel...I'll never forget it. Just picked up my son's great grandpa's old 38-55. Same thing.

[dverna]

I prefer aperture sights to buckhorns and my eyes are not very good. You can buy, or make, different apertures so you can make a peep sight do what you want. When I was shooting CAS, I would remove the disk and use it as a ghost sight...very quick and reasonablky accurate at shorter ranges. To test loads but in a disk with a smallish hole.

But almost every rifle I have now has either a scope or dot sight.

[huntinlever]

I prefer aperture sights to buckhorns and my eyes are not very good. You can buy, or make, different apertures so you can make a peep sight do what you want. When I was shooting CAS, I would remove the disk and use it as a ghost sight...very quick and reasonablky accurate at shorter ranges. To test loads but in a disk with a smallish hole.

But almost every rifle I have now has either a scope or dot sight.

Thanks Don. I'm planning on the bolt in either .300 WM or .338 WM and will definitely scope that. Given past history my hunch is that taking the scope off and mounting the peep on the GG will likely not work, but I just hate having the scope so much on the lever. Increasingly I leave the range after an hour or so shooting with the scope and for some bizarre reason my eyes are fried - not light sensitive, but fried in some other way. Really have to bear down while driving the 1/2 hr or so home.

So I'm hopeful that somehow going to iron sights will paradoxically give my eyes a break. No idea how that makes sense, just a gut thing at this point. Mainly, I'm committed to doing everything I can to make it work and hunt out to 100 yards plus or minus change, without relying on the scope. We'll see.

[NSB]

I got to where I could “get by” with various iron sights, but finally realized that my shooting was much better with red dots and/or lighted reticle scopes. Adding the lighted reticle made a lot of difference in dim light. In brighter light I didn’t need the light on, but it didn’t hurt either. I use Leupold lighted reticle that turn off when not moved for five minutes and come on instantly as soon as you touch the gun. Red dots on all my handguns except CC guns.

[BLAHUT]

Guys, I've been through at least 3 Skinner purchases trying to avoid using a scope on my 45-70 guide gun. It's nothing about the Skinners - I esteem these sights as high as it gets. It's me. Last time I tried was in 2015 when I gave up and mounted a Leu fixed 4X on board. As far as scopes go, I think it's pretty well-suited to my hunting purposes. Low power, lower profile, not as likely to snag and quick sight acquisition.

But I can't get iron sights out of my mind. I see an eye doctor early next month and I'm going to ask him for a solution, if possible, to dial in for 30" (about the distance to my front post) and yet still be able to see reasonably well at distance.

Now the weird question. Do any of you guys (most especially guys with aging/aged eyes) find factory buckhorns easier to deal with than aperture sights? I can pick up my son's great grandpa's old, octagonal barrel 38-55 with it's little buckhorn and as with all these sights, my sight acquisition is so much quicker and beyond, somehow, the alignment of the post in the narrow archway of the rear sight with the target, just feels more natural to me. I find both eyes open in either peeps - or, this is weird - scopes, brings on all kinds of issues and eye strain with much sustained time on the range at all. I don't find that with Buckhorns and find that weird.

Let me add I grew up on lever guns and hunted with just the factory sights all my young life. I was a good and quick shot. I had great eyes, which helped. But now my eyes are just old and tired. Toying with taking off the scope and, now that I have the load locked in, getting to the range and trying to sight-in and shoot with just the factory open sights. But I fear another round of "dang. Have to scope...."

Your $0.02?

I use only aperture sights or scopes, can't see the buckhorn sight well enough..

[HWooldridge]

Thanks Don. I'm planning on the bolt in either .300 WM or .338 WM and will definitely scope that. Given past history my hunch is that taking the scope off and mounting the peep on the GG will likely not work, but I just hate having the scope so much on the lever. Increasingly I leave the range after an hour or so shooting with the scope and for some bizarre reason my eyes are fried - not light sensitive, but fried in some other way. Really have to bear down while driving the 1/2 hr or so home.

So I'm hopeful that somehow going to iron sights will paradoxically give my eyes a break. No idea how that makes sense, just a gut thing at this point. Mainly, I'm committed to doing everything I can to make it work and hunt out to 100 yards plus or minus change, without relying on the scope. We'll see.

You might consider increasing the width of the front sight, whether bead or post. Sounds counterintuitive but it helped me. I went from a 1/16" post to .100 and I was much faster getting on target. You can also change the front sight color - I always liked gold beads until I tried an ivory one and it really "popped" in my vision. I also tried a piece of copper, which can be polished to shine in most any amount of light.

[huntinlever]

OK guys thanks for the input. Bit the bullet and bought another Alaskan from Skinner. It very well may be that a Skinner will be available at a good price in the B & S section in the near future. Wish me luck.

[huntinlever]

You might consider increasing the width of the front sight, whether bead or post. Sounds counterintuitive but it helped me. I went from a 1/16" post to .100 and I was much faster getting on target. You can also change the front sight color - I always liked gold beads until I tried an ivory one and it really "popped" in my vision. I also tried a piece of copper, which can be polished to shine in most any amount of light.

OK, thanks, will do. My existing front post, if I recall correctly, is a bit filed down which was done when I bought the Alaskan years ago. I also recall painting it white, but also had that orange paint which I used. I appreciate the options you lay out, will keep them in mind.

[Mk42gunner]

I never really liked buckhorn sights, they always seemed to block too much of whatever I was shooting at. If I had to have open sights I much preferred a flat topped rear with a suitably sized square(ish) notch.

Apertures are second nature to me. Focus on the front sight and put it on the target.

However, for hunting a scope has any and all forms of iron sights beat hands down. Here is the story that convinced me:

Once upon a time I bought a Remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag. It just so happened to have iron sights on it so I thought I'll use those this year when I go home on leave. I did have my backup .30-06 Mauser with a 2-7X Leupold in the truck.

One afternoon I was sitting in some timber about 45 minutes before end of shooting time and I shouldered my rifle and could not see the sights. This was a shock, I could still see squirrels but not the sights. I am glad I didn't see a deer that evening.

I was in my mid thirties and had what a Navy eye doctor told me was 20-17 vision.

Mid forties when my eyes started going south, now irons are a range or bright midday sun usage for me. A good scope will add about an hour and a half hunting time to a day.

The really scary thing is I know I don't see things as well as I used too, but all the eye doctors and DMV say I don't need glasses to drive.

Robert

[Griff]

While I prefer buckhorns on most rifles or carbines, (long time cowboy action shooter, so no great distances). But for hunting or most target work, the added distance of a tang mounted aperture sight really improves my groups at most distances. A globe front is also an improvement. If your eyes are tired after sighting thru a scope, you're either not lined up properly or the scope is slightly out of focus. If you wear glasses normally (I do), see if taking them off while using the scope helps. Color of front sight should be dependent on the backdrop. Most shiny front sights are best without direct sunlight... glinting can cause your point of aim to shift. Those are my reactions to changes in light, sight and environment... YMMV.

[HWooldridge]

While I prefer buckhorns on most rifles or carbines, (long time cowboy action shooter, so no great distances). But for hunting or most target work, the added distance of a tang mounted aperture sight really improves my groups at most distances. A globe front is also an improvement. If your eyes are tired after sighting thru a scope, you're either not lined up properly or the scope is slightly out of focus. If you wear glasses normally (I do), see if taking them off while using the scope helps. Color of front sight should be dependent on the backdrop. Most shiny front sights are best without direct sunlight... glinting can cause your point of aim to shift. Those are my reactions to changes in light, sight and environment... YMMV.

Your mention of sunlight reminds me of an experience where I shot in a muzzleloader match that started at 8 am and didn’t finish until late afternoon. It was a bright sunny day and we were shooting towards the west, so the sun was behind us in the morning but behind the targets at 4 pm. I had to keep changing the amount of front bead I was seeing as the day progressed because the “shine” was moving forward. The sight picture that was right on the money in the morning was shooting high by the end of the day.

[huntinlever]

While I prefer buckhorns on most rifles or carbines, (long time cowboy action shooter, so no great distances). But for hunting or most target work, the added distance of a tang mounted aperture sight really improves my groups at most distances. A globe front is also an improvement. If your eyes are tired after sighting thru a scope, you're either not lined up properly or the scope is slightly out of focus. If you wear glasses normally (I do), see if taking them off while using the scope helps. Color of front sight should be dependent on the backdrop. Most shiny front sights are best without direct sunlight... glinting can cause your point of aim to shift. Those are my reactions to changes in light, sight and environment... YMMV.

Thanks Griff. Actually what makes my eyes tired, I think, is keeping both eyes open. I don't shoot with my glasses - scope gives me clarity. Not sure what's going on. I haven't shot in any earnest until recently after quite awhile, so maybe I'm just relearning things. But I have spent some time with the Buckhorn, both eyes open, and don't have any problems in that way; I'm pretty stumped to be honest, as I've always shot with both eyes open. Maybe having the target in complete focus with distance vision no longer as good, taking some getting used to again - trying to make my left eye the same as my dominant eye?

[huntinlever]

Your mention of sunlight reminds me of an experience where I shot in a muzzleloader match that started at 8 am and didn’t finish until late afternoon. It was a bright sunny day and we were shooting towards the west, so the sun was behind us in the morning but behind the targets at 4 pm. I had to keep changing the amount of front bead I was seeing as the day progressed because the “shine” was moving forward. The sight picture that was right on the money in the morning was shooting high by the end of the day.

I had forgotten that "sunlight drift" until reading your post. Seems like it's a tall order ahead, to hunt dependably with the peep. Hanging on to the scope, have to see.

[FergusonTO35]

I prefer Williams or Lyman receiver sights, however open sights can work quite well when everything is properly proportioned. My Henry .45-70 and my Rossi .357 use the Marble's folding leaf rear with a large dot front and they work quite well for my uses. I really can't hit anything beyond 100 yards with sights on any rifle, even at that distance I am sort of calculating what is just above the front sight.

[missionary5155]

If your eyes cannot see "Irons" than rejoice you can have that scope to hunt with.
I am well over 70 and am blessed with very good eye sight. But I use a scope on some shooting applications.

[FergusonTO35]

I have some essential tremor and a scope helps me to press the trigger at just the right time, when the crosshair lands on the bullseye for a second. With sights at a distance, the POA could be 3 or 4 inches off when I fire and I wouldn't know it until I check the target.

[NSB]

I had a Skinner rear on my 1886 45-70 and put a light tube front sight on the front of the gun. It worked very well for hunting in all light conditions. Easy to pick up and shot with quite a bit of precision for deer sized game.

[scattershot]

Have you ever tried the old African Express sights? Shallow “V” with a white bead. Easy to pick up, and pretty accurate once you get the hang of it.

Good luck!

[jstanfield103]

For me peep sights are the way to go. They focus your eye a lot better. But you also may want to try a Red Dot/RMR sight.

[missionary5155]

Old style African shallow V ! Good idea scattershot. I forgot all about those.
They were well used on some ML's also.

[huntinlever]

Wanted to thank you guys for all your thoughts. I've sat with this and had an honest dialogue with my eyes and took in everything you've contributed here. Hard to accept limitations, I guess. At any rate I've finally accepted my peep days are behind me, at least for any hunting. The 2.5 x 20 FX II Ultralight is about as perfect an optic, in my book, as I could mount on this rifle. Putting game down cleanly is more important than any ego/attachment I might have to a more traditional setup.

Just want to say, yet again, the high regard I hold for Andy Larsson and Skinner Sights. We were in contact throughout this and he was and remains great to deal with.

[robg]

i cant see the fore sight anymore in or range. 200 meter indoor( old railway tunnel) so i just use scopes .

[FergusonTO35]

Wanted to thank you guys for all your thoughts. I've sat with this and had an honest dialogue with my eyes and took in everything you've contributed here. Hard to accept limitations, I guess. At any rate I've finally accepted my peep days are behind me, at least for any hunting. The 2.5 x 20 FX II Ultralight is about as perfect an optic, in my book, as I could mount on this rifle. Putting game down cleanly is more important than any ego/attachment I might have to a more traditional setup.

Just want to say, yet again, the high regard I hold for Andy Larsson and Skinner Sights. We were in contact throughout this and he was and remains great to deal with.

I wonder what the minimum eye relief on that one is. I have a Swift 1-4.5x20 on one of my 94's and it is an excellent scope but actually has too much eye relief. I'm probably going to switch back to a receiver sight on it.

[huntinlever]

I wonder what the minimum eye relief on that one is. I have a Swift 1-4.5x20 on one of my 94's and it is an excellent scope but actually has too much eye relief. I'm probably going to switch back to a receiver sight on it.

They're showing it at 4.9". Could you talk more about what "too much eye relief" is about?

[FergusonTO35]

What I mean is, to get a clear view through the scope without the image tunneling, I have to keep my cheek way back on the stock which is uncomfortable. There is a distance from the eye to the lens that is optimal, and on this scope its too much.

[M-Tecs]

What I mean is, to get a clear view through the scope without the image tunneling, I have to keep my cheek way back on the stock which is uncomfortable. There is a distance from the eye to the lens that is optimal, and on this scope its too much.

That is a mounting issue. Lots of solutions depend on which rings and mounts you have?

[Mavrick]

FWIW-I have several leverguns, and the all have irons. And when I buy another, the buckhorn comes off "toot sweet."
My M71 has a Williams receiver-sight with an ivory-beaded front. All my leverguns are carbines, mostly with 20" barrels, though some have 16" or 21-22".
I have a .256WinMag M92 Rossi with a Lyman tang-sight, and a Trapper's model .44Mag with a "Steve's Gunz peep that replaces the safety. The .44 has a brass-bead front and the .256 has a fiber-optic sight.
All of my leverguns are used with cast boolits, and shot at 50 yards, primarily, because of my sight. I am 75yo.
If I am shooting lots further, I have scoped rifles with 1-4x variables to 8-25x variables with a sprinkling of 2.5x, 3x and 4x fixed-power mostly with Lee-dots of different sizes.
when I go hunting or plinking with the leverguns, I take the disc off an use the "ghost-sight" method. The buckhorns cover too much area, and make it difficult to pick up moving targets.
Have fun with those leverguns,
Gene

[FergusonTO35]

That is a mounting issue. Lots of solutions depend on which rings and mounts you have?

There aren't many options for the 94 AE. I'm using Leopold mounts and rings. Soon as I get my loads dialed in I'm probably going back to a receiver sight. FYI, H335 works awesome with boolits in the .30-30. I'm using 26 grains under an RCBS 30-150-FN.