Lee Pro flair setting problem.

[nagantino]

I’m trying reloading .38 special wad cutters. I’ve loaded some and tried them at the range with satisfying results. I am using the MP Mold solid wad cutter and, like other MP Molds, the cast bullets are good as they are cast and don’t need sizing. My problem is that the shape of the bullet requires a good flair to start the bullet in the mouth of the .38 brass, but the Lee flair in the second die is not doing it. I’ve worked it. I’ve crushed cases….that’s too much, but setting the die to give an acceptable flair to accept the bullet is a nightmare. Anyone confronted this problem satisfactorily?

[PJEagle]

I need a little more information before attempting to help. Is the Lee flairing die a powder thru flaring die?

[megasupermagnum]

Lee sells oversized expander plugs which is what you need. It is on their website as a custom order, or you can call can tell them you are trying to load wadcutters. You will need to know your bullet diameter. Assuming they are .359", I would ask for a .358" plug.

Alternatively NOE just started selling the same plugs. They have sold the solid versions for years, but only recently started selling the powder-through style. These are even cheaper than the Lee plugs, however, they are slightly different. They make a wadcutter specific plug which will size farther down into the case, which is good for a wadcutter, but they also don't expand the cases very much. The biggest they make is the .357 plug, which might be a little small depending on what your bullets measure. They also sell slightly shorter versions, and in a wider range of sizes.

I use the NOE dies quite a bit, but I never could get them to work on their own. When I use them I do a 2 step process. I expand with the NOE first, ideally before cleaning the brass as you will probably need a little lube to use them. I just spray my cases with a mix of alcohol and lanolin. It's best to clean your cases after you lube them, but not required. The second step is I use a Lee expander die to put a slight flare on the mouth of the case. I use the powder through die if I can, else Lee also makes a universal expanding die with a big wedge shaped plug which will do it.

[nagantino]

PJEAGLE: I’m using the 3 set dies for .38 special and the it’s the powder thro flaring die.

MEGAS: I’ll check out your tips on oversized expanders.

Thinking further…I have the Lee 3 die set for .357 magnum so would it have a longer reach into the .38 special case? Too easy maybe but I’ll look at that today.

[megasupermagnum]

No, and you might be mistaken. Lee does not make a 38 special specific die set. Well technically they are 38 special dies, but they are sold as 38/357 dies to be used with both. I don't think they have ever made a 357 magnum specific die. My set is pretty old, old enough that it predates when they had shell boxes, it came in a plastic cup similar to how they sold the sizing dies. It was 38/357 even back then.

There likely isn't anything you can do without buying another expander plug. If by some crazy chance you have a powder though expander for a 35 caliber rifle such as 350 legend, you can try that plug. All of the plugs should interchange between the die bodies. What you have is a common problem. It used to be you could ready order a wadcutter expander and bullet seating punch (which I think was just flat). I would bet you can still do that today, and there is even a good chance Lee will send them to you for cheaper than the listed custom price.

[Sam Sackett]

Lee did make at least one set of 357 mag only dies. I have a set. I once tried to load 38 Spec with them and they won’t work. Especially the seat/crimp die. The 38 casing wouldn’t go far enough into the die to set a crimp. Checked the die and it’s only stamped 357. Only one I’ve ever seen.

The powder through die inserts are caliber specific. They vary in length through the body. The only ones I have seen that interchange are the 9mm and 38 S&W. I use the 38 S&W insert when loading cast in 9mm. The expander portion is a little larger and I get less bullet crush. There may be more that interchange, but I don’t know of them.

Sam Sackett

[megasupermagnum]

I would still call Lee, but to help you out farther, these two are what I suggest.

Lee universal expanding die
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-rifle/lee-universal-case-exp-die/

NOE rifle length (longer than pistol length) expander plug .362"x.358". I'm just guessing on your bullet diameter which you have not stated.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-rifle/363-x-359-exp-plug/

[megasupermagnum]

Lee did make at least one set of 357 mag only dies. I have a set. I once tried to load 38 Spec with them and they won’t work. Especially the seat/crimp die. The 38 casing wouldn’t go far enough into the die to set a crimp. Checked the die and it’s only stamped 357. Only one I’ve ever seen.

The powder through die inserts are caliber specific. They vary in length through the body. The only ones I have seen that interchange are the 9mm and 38 S&W. I use the 38 S&W insert when loading cast in 9mm. The expander portion is a little larger and I get less bullet crush. There may be more that interchange, but I don’t know of them.

Sam Sackett

This is somewhat correct. You can put most plugs in most die bodies, but the they all vary in length as you say. If you had a plug for example from a 350 legend it very likely could be used in the 38 special die body. They trick though is you may need a spacer. I forget what size, but I think it is a standard 5/16" nut works just fine as a spacer, and retains the ability to use it as a powder through die.

[jetinteriorguy]

I’ve loaded and shot thousands of WC’s and here’s the trick. First, use brass designed for wadcutters, you can identify these by the location of two cannelures about half way down on the case. Second, trim all the brass to the same length, just once is usually enough. This way when you set the flaring it will work better due to the uniformity of the brass. The only other suggestion I’d have is to second Megasupermagnums method.

[mdi]

I have a Lee Universal Expanding die. Used it on some 9mm brass yesterday... https://leeprecision.com/universal-case-expanding-die.html

[nagantino]

So, after reading as much as I could on this problem I decided to return to basics. I appreciate the help from all quarters by the way. Lees instructions on setting the flair are minimal but after finding a post on The High Road site I returned to resetting the die. I removed the powder flask assembly. Using the flair die itself but with the resizing die and the depth/crimp die also in place, I lowered it, in increments, until the die was beginning to flair the brass. I lowered it until it almost touched the shell plate then stopped. There is now a visible flailing to the .38 special brass, not a lot but some. That will have to be it. The inherent shape of the wad cutter bullet is not a help when setting but it’s now doable. It helps if I use my fingers to ensure it’s upright too. Not perfect but I can crank out finished rounds now. Many thanks.