Single Action Army advice

[Bill*B]

I know that the safety notch is there to lift the firing pin off a round in the chamber, but I carry and store the revolver with an empty chamber under the hammer. So: does it make any difference if I engage the safety notch, or just let the hammer rest all the way down?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Short answer….no.
If there’s an empty chamber under the hammer, there’s no functional difference between leaving the hammer at rest or pulling it back to engage the first notch.

I leave the hammer at rest on the frame. That’s simpler, easier. I like simple and easy.

On the smaller cartridges, like my second generation in 357, I sometimes want to carry it with all 6 chambers loaded. In that case I let the hammer down (real easy) over a live primer until it’s at rest, then I pull and hold the trigger back while pulling the hammer back just enough to drop the bolt out of its notch. Still holding the trigger back, still holding the hammer slightly back, I rotate the cylinder by hand until I can let the hammer down so the firing pin rests on the cylinder face between case heads. It’s a lot more trouble, more complicated, has potential to fire a round unintentionally. So I don’t recommend it. Seldom do it. It’s rare that I think I need more than 5 rounds on tap from an SAA.

I’m a big fan of load one, skip one, load four, shut the door, cock and drop.

[elmacgyver0]

Ah, the old Colts!
I'm going to get a lot of hate for this.
Hate away!
The Uberti Cattleman with the retractable firing pin is a safer, better gun, everything the Colt wanted to be.
Nothing like an original Colt for a collection, although way overpriced, but hell, it's only money.
The Cattleman can be safely carried with six rounds, the Colt five.
A much better option for carry and shooting, the Colt can stay at home in your safe retaining its value as a collector.
If you want to dump on me fine, it is just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.
This isn't saying I wouldn't love to have an original Colt, no doubt a very fine firearm.
I also prefer Rugers for carrying and range play, the transfer bar make them a very safe revolver to carry, the Uberti does look more authentic withe the hammer pulled.
I did see where someone got the parts to remove Uberti's retractable firing pin and add a hammer with a fixed one.
He wanted to hear the four clicks (C.O.L.T.), IMHO at this point if that is so important, buy the Colt, after all, you will still have an Uberti.

[gc45]

My Uberti 45C was a crap gun, gave it away; maybe they have improved now, I don't know. My Ruger 44S flat top is a dream come true. My colts are unfired accept for one, a 2nd gen 357 that really is a tack driver using 2400 powder and cast bullets; I shoot it now and then is all.

[elmacgyver0]

I have 2 Uberti's one a 45 Colt and the other .357 magnum, both perfect in my opinion, nothing is really perfect, but so far, I have not found any problems with either of them.
Perhaps they have improved, mine are not all that old.

[Bill*B]

Thanks, all. I like shoestring's idea - simple. Simple is usually good. Bill

[Y-T71]

I also have 2 Uberti's (Taylor's 'Smoke Wagons') one .45 colt and one .357, both with the retractable firing pin and both built in '22 IIRC.

Haven't had a chance to fire the .357 yet but, the .45 has been 100%

At the range I've been loading 6 but if I were to carry it I think I would be inclined to stick with 5, safety or not.

[Hick]

Ah, the old Colts!
I'm going to get a lot of hate for this.
Hate away!
The Uberti Cattleman with the retractable firing pin is a safer, better gun, everything the Colt wanted to be.
Nothing like an original Colt for a collection, although way overpriced, but hell, it's only money.
The Cattleman can be safely carried with six rounds, the Colt five.
A much better option for carry and shooting, the Colt can stay at home in your safe retaining its value as a collector.
If you want to dump on me fine, it is just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.
This isn't saying I wouldn't love to have an original Colt, no doubt a very fine firearm.
I also prefer Rugers for carrying and range play, the transfer bar make them a very safe revolver to carry, the Uberti does look more authentic withe the hammer pulled.
I did see where someone got the parts to remove Uberti's retractable firing pin and add a hammer with a fixed one.
He wanted to hear the four clicks (C.O.L.T.), IMHO at this point if that is so important, buy the Colt, after all, you will still have an Uberti.

Totally agree the Cattleman is nice (I have one and I like it). However, about that retractable firing pin. The thing that pushes that firing pin forward is having the trigger back-- and you have to hold the trigger back in order to lower the hammer after closing the loading gate. So if you load 6 you have to be very, very, careful to not drop the hammer until you let go of the trigger-- or the retractable firing pin won't be retracted.

[racepres]

My Uberti 45C was a crap gun, gave it away; maybe they have improved now, I don't know. My Ruger 44S flat top is a dream come true. My colts are unfired accept for one, a 2nd gen 357 that really is a tack driver using 2400 powder and cast bullets; I shoot it now and then is all.
Next time yer givin guns away... Please Call Me!!!!
Thanks

[contender1]

To answer the OP.

While not necessary to many,, I PERSONALLY prefer to go to the first notch, (also called the safety notch.) Why? I like to relieve the spring tension on the firing pin on my Rugers. The Colts? Well, Not really necessary.

[DougGuy]

Load 5, hammer down on empty chamber.. There is no safe way to carry 6 with an old Colt or a Ruger 3 screw. Yes there is the half cock notch but that's not safe. Uberti has an ingenious safety built into the hammer that works pretty good for loading 6, it does have a safety notch that is not the half cock notch.

In John Wayne's last movie "The Shootist" you will notice when he leaves his room to head to the Metropol, the last thing he does when he is getting ready to leave the room is load that empty chamber.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have a copy of the Remington 1890 with the peculiar hammer safety they put on back then. Also a Cimarron SA copy with an extra groove in the cylinder axle; you push it in and it lifts the hammer off the primers and the spring-loaded cross pin holds it in place.

I don’t understand how the first one works, so I don’t trust it. The second always seems to be “on” when I’m trying to shoot, which is annoying. So I continue to load five, with the hammer down on the empty chamber.

Back in the heady days of “Fast-Draw,” when cowboy movies and shows were all over TV in the 1950s, it was averred that the weight distribution of the SAA caused it to swing over and land on the hammer when fumbled and dropped. The teensy sear on the skinny trigger would break if it was in the “safety” notch (the notch itself might break as well) and the impact on the ground could fire the gun, with the barrel pointed up at the shooter’s groin area.

I’ve never tried to determine the truth of this, but it does sound logical. I’d need to be in a dangerous situation before I loaded that last chamber.

[HWooldridge]

I have a 1st gen and 3rd gen Colt SAA - both are .44's. While it is perfectly possible to let the hammer down so the firing pin rests BETWEEN the cartridge rims (cylinder is not locked), I have always carried 5 and left one empty chamber. My 1st gen has a very strong mainspring so it would be somewhat difficult for the hammer to lift and allow the firing pin to slide on top of a primer, but I'm not betting my leg on it. Under no circumstances should you trust the safety notch - they are just too fragile.

The old percussion revolvers usually had rest notches between the nipples, so it really was pretty safe to carry 6 loads.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I still have several SAA-type revolvers, but none of them are Colts as they got too valuable to keep! I've acquired them over the years and started with an Armi Jager that has a little roller device on the hammer that can be rotated forward to hold the hammer off the frame just enough to avoid contact with the primer. Then, along came "Swiss Safe" which I think first appeared on Hammerli replicas, and involves being able to push the cylinder pin in an extra little bit to block forward movement of the hammer. There are the transfer bar safeties that require the hammer to be fully cocked and the trigger pulled to activate a transfer part to rise and let the hammer transmit the blow through it to the firing pin. Lots of ideas, but all lack the simplicity of the original design (Colt). There are many originals and faithful copies of the original floating around with sheered off safety notches or notches that are partially broken from blows to a half cocked hammer. You can't really know just how broken until you disassemble and inspect the particular gun, so following the hammer down on the empty chamber is always a sound idea. I am one who also likes their Ubertis.

DG

[kerplode]

Short answer….no.
If there’s an empty chamber under the hammer, there’s no functional difference between leaving the hammer at rest or pulling it back to engage the first notch.

I leave the hammer at rest on the frame. That’s simpler, easier. I like simple and easy.

On the smaller cartridges, like my second generation in 357, I sometimes want to carry it with all 6 chambers loaded. In that case I let the hammer down (real easy) over a live primer until it’s at rest, then I pull and hold the trigger back while pulling the hammer back just enough to drop the bolt out of its notch. Still holding the trigger back, still holding the hammer slightly back, I rotate the cylinder by hand until I can let the hammer down so the firing pin rests on the cylinder face between case heads. It’s a lot more trouble, more complicated, has potential to fire a round unintentionally. So I don’t recommend it. Seldom do it. It’s rare that I think I need more than 5 rounds on tap from an SAA.

I’m a big fan of load one, skip one, load four, shut the door, cock and drop.

This...Mostly.

Do that third-paragraph stuff at your own risk. (to be fair, SoaS does indicate this is dangerous and not recommended...I'm just reinforcing that)

[freakonaleash]

I have several Uberti '73 SAA's, had them for years. What is this retractable firing pin thingus everyone is talking about?

[jaguarxk120]

That is the new Cattleman II revolver, kind of works like a Ruger.
No more four clicks!

[Bill*B]

Hey Guys and Gals, this is fun, but .. I never, ever load six. It's just too dangerous. Now, you who do: recall John Wayne saying in a movie that I forget "Only load six if you mean it."

[fatelk]

I've followed discussions about loading five or six in single-action revolvers off and on with mild interest over the years. I've been shooting revolvers for decades, but was never into single-actions until just a few years ago when I bought a Cimmaron Pistolero .45 Colt.

I really like it. It's made by Pietta, and has the four-click hammer that I understand should be resting over an empty chamber. Personally I load all six chambers. Why? Because I never carry it, and the only time I load it is at the range, pointed downrange at all times. It's either sitting on the bench or in my hand pointed at the target. I know I'm boring, but it never even sees a holster. It is a lot of fun to shoot though. If I were to carry it, I have been convinced from threads like this that I would load five. I can't imagine that I'll ever carry it.

By the way, I realize that your original question was not about loading five or six, but whether you should rest the hammer on the frame or safety notch over the empty chamber. The thread got a little off track. :)

[35 Whelen]

Ah, the old Colts!
I'm going to get a lot of hate for this.
Hate away!
The Uberti Cattleman with the retractable firing pin is a safer, better gun, everything the Colt wanted to be.
Nothing like an original Colt for a collection, although way overpriced, but hell, it's only money.
The Cattleman can be safely carried with six rounds, the Colt five.
A much better option for carry and shooting, the Colt can stay at home in your safe retaining its value as a collector.
If you want to dump on me fine, it is just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.
This isn't saying I wouldn't love to have an original Colt, no doubt a very fine firearm.
I also prefer Rugers for carrying and range play, the transfer bar make them a very safe revolver to carry, the Uberti does look more authentic withe the hammer pulled.
I did see where someone got the parts to remove Uberti's retractable firing pin and add a hammer with a fixed one.
He wanted to hear the four clicks (C.O.L.T.), IMHO at this point if that is so important, buy the Colt, after all, you will still have an Uberti.

I completely agree. I've bought a few 3rd Generation Colt's and had every intention of putting them to good use. But oversized throats and oversprung actions that felt as though they were full of sand changed my mind, I left 'em to the collectors. My Uberti's, especially the post-2000 examples, are marvelous shooters.


My Uberti 45C was a crap gun, gave it away; maybe they have improved now, I don't know. My Ruger 44S flat top is a dream come true. My colts are unfired accept for one, a 2nd gen 357 that really is a tack driver using 2400 powder and cast bullets; I shoot it now and then is all.

I've owned over a dozen Uberti's and haven't had a bad one yet. I bought a Ruger Flat Top 5 1/2" .44 Special with every intention of hunting with it, but a homely Uberti in the same caliber took its place. The only thing the Ruger had over the Uberti was much better sights, but that never mattered in the field. But, I really should get the ol' Flat Top out and warm her up a bit!


I have a copy of the Remington 1890 with the peculiar hammer safety they put on back then. Also a Cimarron SA copy with an extra groove in the cylinder axle; you push it in and it lifts the hammer off the primers and the spring-loaded cross pin holds it in place.

I don’t understand how the first one works, so I don’t trust it. The second always seems to be “on” when I’m trying to shoot, which is annoying. So I continue to load five, with the hammer down on the empty chamber.


The peculiar hammer safety to which you refer was/is an ingenious pivoting block. When the hammer was pulled back to the first notch, the trigger sear engaged a pin that actuated the block, which prevented the hammer from falling, like this-

https://i.imgur.com/49X60oa.jpg

Here's one that I manually engaged with a screwdriver to illustrate how it works-

https://i.imgur.com/qQyXlE3l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qD374JFl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WOzu0vul.jpg

Were the revolver to be dropped there are actually three points that support the hammer-

https://i.imgur.com/4FpFIkB.jpg

This is a shot of the hammer mortise of a Uberti Frisco that I carried and hunted with quite a lot. It had the pivoting hammer block and if one looks just below the firing pin hole, one can clearly see where the hammer block has been resting on the frame.

https://i.imgur.com/RJlFM3G.jpg

A pretty much foolproof design IMHO, and all of my Uberti's except one have this and I always load six and trust the design completely.

I used to carry a Uberti .44 Special, which had the traditional 1st notch safety, with six rounds loaded and the hammer in the 1st safety notch, everywhere on my place and out and about. I mean on the tractor, cutting/hauling/stacking firewood, repairing/building barbed wire fence, working cattle, climbing over and through pipe corrals, horseback, etc. etc. and banged that rig and pistol on everything imaginable. It even once, after the hammer thong somehow came loose, fell out of its holster and into the bottom of a hole over which I was leaning, yet not once did I have an unintentional discharge. And if you think about it, how many of us while hunting have chambered a round and used the 1st notch safety on firearms such as '73, '92, '94 and '97 Rossi's, Uberti's and Winchesters, or any longarm with an external hammer? We've all seen the broken safety notches on Colt SA hammers and I used to have a couple of photos of hammers out of '94 Winchester whose safety notches were broken. I strongly suspect they, like the safety notches of the Colt hammers, were broken when the trigger is pulled while the safety notch is engaged.

Anyhow, at the end of the day, to each his own and we should all do what works best for each of us!

35W

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks for the clear explanation, 35 Whelen. I’ve never seen the little tab pivoting on mine, but again, I’ve never left it in the safety notch with six in the cylinder. I’ll dig the gun out and see if I can spot it (on an empty cylinder).

The rifles you mention have more metal in the triggers and hammer notches, and would probably have less chance of landing on the hammer if dropped or lost from a saddle scabbard.

I have loaded six from time to time, but, as fatelk mentioned, it’s at the shooting range for immediate use, and generally the last six of the rounds I’ve brought with me.

[freakonaleash]

Ah, that little tab thingy. I got rid of that early on when it engaged during a cowboy action match. Load five here. If it were a life and death bad guy situation, I'd load six and leave it on 1/2 cock.

[shooting on a shoestring]

For those that load six only at the range…please consider it isn’t carrying that is the danger. It’s dropping. The range is a very common place to drop guns simply because that’s where they are handled.

[gwpercle]

There is no "Foolproof" design ...

Too many Fools out there and they work overtime !
Gary

[Green Frog]

I've mostly used my Uberti Smoke Wagon for Cowboy Fast Draw with wax loads, but it has been pretty solid for me. It came from Taylor's and has the Taylor Tuned™ package, but the ones I've seen straight from Italy rise high above the "crap gun" level. And I don't mind using it for fast draw games and shooting the heck out of it!

I've also fooled around with a Navy Arms Uberti in 32-20. According to Val Forgett, he had his gunsmith tune all of the 32-20s including replacing the springs with new Wolff springs... essentially the same thing as Taylor Tuned. Since they haven't sold any of these @ Navy Arms for nearly 20 years, any suggestion that the earlier models weren't any good seems a little off as well.

My limited experience with Uberti SAAs has all been very positive, but as with all things though, YMMV.

Froggie

[smkummer]

Yep, I have over 10 Colt SAA’s. As stated before, when at the range and loading for shooting right after I load the gun, I load six. Simply because after the 6th round is loaded, I cock from 1/2 cock to full cock and shoot. No less safe than loading 5.
BUT for SASS and the very few times I have carried a SAA ( once for deer hunting) it gets loaded with 5 and hammer resting under empty chamber all the way down. I don’t use the safety notch as if dropped, I risk breaking the safety notch and or trigger.
I am 62 and have enjoy my traditional single actions for more than 45 years and no accidental discharges as of yet.

[FergusonTO35]

The safety notch between cylinders on the NAA mini revolvers is an ingenious KISS solution. Surprised nobody has put it on a sixgun yet. Wonder if it would be possible to do it by just creating notches or slots between the chambers?

[Electrod47]

I completely agree. I've bought a few 3rd Generation Colt's and had every intention of putting them to good use. But oversized throats and oversprung actions that felt as though they were full of sand changed my mind, I left 'em to the collectors. My Uberti's, especially the post-2000 examples, are marvelous shooters.



I've owned over a dozen Uberti's and haven't had a bad one yet. I bought a Ruger Flat Top 5 1/2" .44 Special with every intention of hunting with it, but a homely Uberti in the same caliber took its place. The only thing the Ruger had over the Uberti was much better sights, but that never mattered in the field. But, I really should get the ol' Flat Top out and warm her up a bit!



The peculiar hammer safety to which you refer was/is an ingenious pivoting block. When the hammer was pulled back to the first notch, the trigger sear engaged a pin that actuated the block, which prevented the hammer from falling, like this-

https://i.imgur.com/49X60oa.jpg

Here's one that I manually engaged with a screwdriver to illustrate how it works-

https://i.imgur.com/qQyXlE3l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qD374JFl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/WOzu0vul.jpg

Were the revolver to be dropped there are actually three points that support the hammer-

https://i.imgur.com/4FpFIkB.jpg

This is a shot of the hammer mortise of a Uberti Frisco that I carried and hunted with quite a lot. It had the pivoting hammer block and if one looks just below the firing pin hole, one can clearly see where the hammer block has been resting on the frame.

https://i.imgur.com/RJlFM3G.jpg

A pretty much foolproof design IMHO, and all of my Uberti's except one have this and I always load six and trust the design completely.

I used to carry a Uberti .44 Special, which had the traditional 1st notch safety, with six rounds loaded and the hammer in the 1st safety notch, everywhere on my place and out and about. I mean on the tractor, cutting/hauling/stacking firewood, repairing/building barbed wire fence, working cattle, climbing over and through pipe corrals, horseback, etc. etc. and banged that rig and pistol on everything imaginable. It even once, after the hammer thong somehow came loose, fell out of its holster and into the bottom of a hole over which I was leaning, yet not once did I have an unintentional discharge. And if you think about it, how many of us while hunting have chambered a round and used the 1st notch safety on firearms such as '73, '92, '94 and '97 Rossi's, Uberti's and Winchesters, or any longarm with an external hammer? We've all seen the broken safety notches on Colt SA hammers and I used to have a couple of photos of hammers out of '94 Winchester whose safety notches were broken. I strongly suspect they, like the safety notches of the Colt hammers, were broken when the trigger is pulled while the safety notch is engaged.

Anyhow, at the end of the day, to each his own and we should all do what works best for each of us!

35W

WOW!!!.....Thank you,Case Closed.

[smkummer]

The safety notch between cylinders on the NAA mini revolvers is an ingenious KISS solution. Surprised nobody has put it on a sixgun yet. Wonder if it would be possible to do it by just creating notches or slots between the chambers?
The Ruger old model army had those, it works great.

[FergusonTO35]

So. would it be possible to just make some recesses between the chambers for the firing pin to rest in with the hammer all the way down? Or would the lockwork prevent this from working?

[shooting on a shoestring]

FergusonTO35, yep. It’s been done. Still didn’t keep Ruger from getting sued.
309978
It works and I’ve used it occasionally. But just from habit I load 5.

[shooting on a shoestring]

On the Colt SAA and clones in 45 Colt, and the other large rimmed cases there is not enough room between the case rims in line with the primers for the hammer to rest. I have tried and find it doesn’t take much of a jiggle to skate the firing pin over a primer. Actually i should say to skate the cylinder so it rotates and lets the firing pin contact a primer. The 357s can let the firing pin rest between the case rims much like the Ruger.
309979

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks for the good explanation and pics,!

[Larry Gibson]

I have an Uberti Artillery SA with the safety block. I carry it with 6 rounds loaded w/o qualms. My Uberti "Evil Roy" SA and Hawes Western Marshal are, however, standard Colt replicant actions so they get carried with 5 rounds, hammer down on empty chamber. My 4 Ruger SAs all have the transfer bar system same as my Ruger, S&W and Colt DAs so they are carried with 6 rounds. My older DA revolvers w/o the transfer bar have hammer blocks so are carried with all chambers loaded.

[txbirdman]

Don’t know if it’s true or not but I’ve heard that notches were sometimes filed on the rim of two adjacent cartridges so that the firing pin could rest in the recess.