Do We Melt or Smelt

[44MAG#1]

smelt
/smelt/
verb
extract (metal) from its ore by a process involving heating and melting.
We all know what melt is.

[Winger Ed.]

smelt
.



I love this place. I learn something new every day.
All these years--- I'd always thought smelt was a little fish.:bigsmyl2:

[1eyedjack]

Smelt as in I smelt something burning in the kitchen??

[45workhorse]

I smelt something good cooking on the grill?? Maybe a little on the fishy side though.

[JimB..]

Isn’t the rule that if you smelt it, you dealt it?

[imashooter2]

Smelting is a term of art when used in boolit casting.

[Winger Ed.]

Smelting is a term of art when used in boolit casting.

Nah,,, it's just from someone typing that has a lisp.

[kevin c]

This has been argued here many times.

I guess it partly depends on how you define “ore” ;^]

I prefer to call separating the metals I get from the stuff I don’t want “processing”, eventually ending up with casting alloy. That gets me around the fine points of whether it meets the formal definition of smelting.

[OS OK]

https://i.imgur.com/S8J5btW.jpg

[M-Tecs]

To me smelting is a process done to clean the alloy/lead so it can be cast ingots. While it's not from ore it still done for cleaning and refining.

Melting is just that. You melt your lead/alloy to cast bullets.

[44MAG#1]

refine
verb
re·​fine ri-ˈfīn
refined; refining

transitive verb
1
: to free (something, such as metal, sugar, or oil) from impurities or unwanted material

[Sasquatch-1]

I mine bullet scrap from our berm at the club I belong to. Therefore, the scrap is the ore that has been mined. So, if the scrap is the ore, then I am smelting.

"I'm Smelting, I'm Smelting.
309529

[44MAG#1]

I mine bullet scrap from our berm at the club I belong to. Therefore, the scrap is the ore that has been mined. So, if the scrap is the ore, then I am smelting.

"I'm Smelting, I'm Smelting.
309529

Or are you melting, fluxing and refining to cleanse the dirty metal already smelted from it's parent ore so you can cast bullets with it?

[schutzen-jager]

iitc a smelt is a salt water fish - smelting is extracting metal from ore as already stated -

[jsizemore]

You know what we're talking about when we say it or type it?

[Froogal]

Smelting takes place ONLY when extracting lead from the original ore.

Since range scrap has already been smelted, the process then becomes simply melting.

[lightman]

You know what we're talking about when we say it or type it?

That was my first thoughts too! I know that by definition "smelting" is not the correct term for what we do with scrap lead but its the term that I use. I expect that most casters know what I'm talking about when I use it.

[44MAG#1]

You know what we're talking about when we say it or type it?

"know
/nō/
verb

be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

un·der·stand
/ˌəndərˈstand/
verb

perceive the intended meaning of (words, a language, or a speaker)."
I understand/know what is meant but knowing/understanding may be a different thing because that requires a working knowledge/understanding of the speaker or typist mind.

[imashooter2]

term of art

�� High School Level
noun
a word or phrase that has a specific or precise meaning within a given discipline or field and might have a different meaning in common usage:
Set is a term of art used by mathematicians, and burden of proof is a term of art used by lawyers.

[waksupi]

One day it was so hot I thought I was going to melt. I was sweating so much, my friends told me I smelt.

[wddodge]

I use the term "render" as in I rendered those wheel weights down to ingots.

The definition of render is "to melt or to combine elements".

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion.. :)

Denny

[blackthorn]

Quote "iitc a smelt is a salt water fish - smelting is extracting metal from ore as already stated"

"Smelt" IS a small fish!!! "Smelting" is what we do when we set out to catch said fish!

[dogrunner]

Molten is as Moulten does!

Liquify to fluidity!

[reddog81]

If you understand with 100% certainty what is being communicated, what difference does it make?

[super6]

Smelt, melt,Who gives a flying. Just get there.

[44MAG#1]

If you understand with 100% certainty what is being communicated, what difference does it make?
Do we know with 100 percent reliability what someone means? How do we establish that with perfection with 100 percent meaning that there is no room for error. So if there is no room for error that it must be perfect.

[44MAG#1]

I use the term "render" as in I rendered those wheel weights down to ingots.

The definition of render is "to melt or to combine elements".

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion.. :)

Denny

Render also means make. You render (melt) your wheelweights to render (make).bullets from your rendering (melting) of the wheelweights to making renderings of bullets by molding them.

[wddodge]

Render also means make. You render (melt) your wheelweights to render (make).bullets from your rendering (melting) of the wheelweights to making renderings of bullets by molding them.

LOL!!

Denny

[jsizemore]

Most of us melt lead to make ingots separate from melting lead to make bullets. Our slang word for "melting lead to make ingots" is smelt. Saves time from saying or typing "melting lead to make ingots". And the other side is "melting lead to make bullets". That slang word is melt. Saves time and bandwidth to say melt. Our slang for different operations is fine just like the slang used to describe computer operations. Sometimes you go to different places and the word you use has a whole nother meaning and can get you in trouble or laughed at. You should try southern Mississippi cajun in central Ohio or Miami Fla.

[44MAG#1]

So when we make bullets we smelt the metal from the ore. Then after we do that we refine the metal by fluxing
and cleaning and we render bullets by casting the metal into a mold to render bullets?
OR, do we melt the ingots we render(make) for making(rendering) bullets by injecting the alloy into a mold to produce bullets?

[imashooter2]

ob·tuse
/əbˈto͞os,äbˈto͞os/
adjective
1. annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
"he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse"

[44MAG#1]

Obtuse is much kinder than what my wife calls me. That couldn't be typed on here.

[kevin c]

“Process”

It’s got two syllables, so it’s better than smelt or melt. Amirite?

[44MAG#1]

“Process”

It’s got two syllables, so it’s better than smelt or melt. Amirite?

Urrite, uamrite, urcrect, urbrite.

[justindad]

I schmelt wheel weights, turning them into clean alloy for casting my boolits.
*
Boolit
Bü·​lit
noun
A projectile, cast from lead. In cases where the lead was not schmelted properly, accuracy may suffer.

[44MAG#1]

I meltfluxrefinecast while I render over a hot pot dreaming of the elusive cast bullets that will turn me into the next shooting phenomenon like most try to do while at the same time knowing it isn't going to happen.

[KYCaster]

Most of us melt lead to make ingots separate from melting lead to make bullets. Our slang word for "melting lead to make ingots" is smelt. Saves time from saying or typing "melting lead to make ingots". And the other side is "melting lead to make bullets". That slang word is melt. Saves time and bandwidth to say melt. Our slang for different operations is fine just like the slang used to describe computer operations. Sometimes you go to different places and the word you use has a whole nother meaning and can get you in trouble or laughed at. You should try southern Mississippi cajun in central Ohio or Miami Fla.



Y'all may not believe it (I could never convince my EX) but WORDS actually MEAN THINGS!
If you really want to save time and reduce the chance of misunderstanding, then use the correct WORD.
You want to express a thought or explain an idea or concept or process, chances are there's already a WORD for it.

For instance...
Smelt: Reduce from ore. That's not what we do. As hobbyists, most of us don't have the equipment or knowledge.

Render: Melt and clarify. That's much more descriptive of what we do. Simple and straightforward, although we often make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Cast: Shape in a mold. WOW...whodathunk there'd be such a simple way to say that.

I know i'm "wasting bandwidth" here and nobody's going to change their ways just on my say so, but if you're really concerned about people misunderstanding what you're trying to say then maybe you should consider that some very smart people have written HUGE books full of WORDS and WHAT THEY ACTUALLY MEAN, rather than making up your own definitions and your own words (sorry BoolitMan) and then have to explain what you mean to every noobie who comes along.

Hokay... I'm through ranting now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

jsizemore...all in fun. No offense meant. BLESS YOUR HEART!

[jsizemore]

I hate to tell you. The big book people add words and meanings as they go.

It's your keyboard. Make yourself HAPPY!

[Sasquatch-1]

44MAG#1, I hope you are happy with yourself. Now we will have to wait another year for this thread to "MELT INTO THE LANDSCAPE." :veryconfu :mrgreen: :groner:

[Scrounge]

smelt
/smelt/
verb
extract (metal) from its ore by a process involving heating and melting.
We all know what melt is.

If, I say, IF, you were for example, extracting all the lead in old lead-acid batteries that had sulfated, that would be smelting, as you're reducing the lead sulfate to lead. Otherwise you're just melting lead. Temperature and additives to assist in breaking down the sulfate make the difference. As I understand it, and I'm no expert.

Bill

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I use the term "render" as in I rendered those wheel weights down to ingots.

The definition of render is "to melt or to combine elements".

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion.. :)

Denny

rend·er
/ˈrendər/

cause to be or become; make.

I like render as well. Reminds me of making lard…

[44MAG#1]

If, I say, IF, you were for example, extracting all the lead in old lead-acid batteries that had sulfated, that would be smelting, as you're reducing the lead sulfate to lead. Otherwise you're just melting lead. Temperature and additives to assist in breaking down the sulfate make the difference. As I understand it, and I'm no expert.

Bill

So you are saying that melting lead and fluxing and skimming from a battery that has sulfates is extracting the metal from ore so that is smelting instead of melting?

[quack1]

iitc a smelt is a salt water fish - smelting is extracting metal from ore as already stated -

Not all smelt are salt water fish. Some are anadromous, and can live in both salt and fresh water.
So smelting can mean the extraction of fish from two different types of ore.:grin:

[charlie b]

If in doubt, look it up. :) Even the 'experts' deviate a little.

https://www.metaltek.com/resources/glossary/

Smelting

A metallurgical thermal process in which a metal is separated in fused form from nonmetallic materials, or other undesired metals with which it is associated.

https://vacaero.com/information-resources/glossary/591-glossary-sa-sq.html

smelting
Thermal processing wherein chemical reactions take place to produce liquid metal from a beneficiated ore.

beneficiation
Concentration or other preparation of ore for smelting.

[LabGuy]

I’m with KYcaster, I render down wheel weights and range scrap. My grandmother (in KY) used to render hog fat. I’m pretty sure she didn’t make it.

[44MAG#1]

I’m with KYcaster, I render down wheel weights and range scrap. My grandmother (in KY) used to render hog fat. I’m pretty sure she didn’t make it.

She made lard from the fat. So she rendered (made) lard from the fat.
This is like we render (make) bullets from metal that we melted after getting the metal after it was smelted from the ore by another source.

[Scrounge]

So you are saying that melting lead and fluxing and skimming from a battery that has sulfates is extracting the metal from ore so that is smelting instead of melting?

No, I'm saying reducing the lead sulfates in the battery to pure lead is smelting. You can melt out the lead from a battery and have a lot of leftover material that contains more lead, but won't melt out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galena is one of the common lead ores. It's a lead sulfide, so not exactly the same thing, but similar. It's also one of the most common ores lead is extracted from. https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Anglesite is actually lead sulfate, is oxidized from lead sulfide, and is also a common ore from which lead is extracted. In either case, the process is smelting. Anglesite, mentioned above, is about 74% lead, so there is still quite a bit of lead in that mass that needs additional chemical processes to release. https://www.wirtzusa.com/what-is-lead-smelting/ Melting and smelting are not equivalent. I am a bit of pedant, so I'll call melting lead "melting" and extracting lead from chemical compounds of lead "Smelting." However, I'm not the Spelling Nazi or the Grammar Nazi, so you go ahead and call it what you like.

[44MAG#1]

No, I'm saying reducing the lead sulfates in the battery to pure lead is smelting. You can melt out the lead from a battery and have a lot of leftover material that contains more lead, but won't melt out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galena is one of the common lead ores. It's a lead sulfide, so not exactly the same thing, but similar. It's also one of the most common ores lead is extracted from. https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Anglesite is actually lead sulfate, is oxidized from lead sulfide, and is also a common ore from which lead is extracted. In either case, the process is smelting. Anglesite, mentioned above, is about 74% lead, so there is still quite a bit of lead in that mass that needs additional chemical processes to release. https://www.wirtzusa.com/what-is-lead-smelting/ Melting and smelting are not equivalent. I am a bit of pedant, so I'll call melting lead "melting" and extracting lead from chemical compounds of lead "Smelting." However, I'm not the Spelling Nazi or the Grammar Nazi, so you go ahead and call it what you like.

Do we throw the whole battery in the pot to smelt the lead from the battery or are we putting the lead internals of the battery in the pot and melting that then fluxing the melted lead to then skim the dross (whatever it contains such as dirt and other things) to refine the melted to produce an alloy?

[OS OK]

https://i.imgur.com/em3deGW.jpg

[reddog81]

Do we know with 100 percent reliability what someone means? How do we establish that with perfection with 100 percent meaning that there is no room for error. So if there is no room for error that it must be perfect.

This afternoon I'm going to smelt down some wheel weights over my backyard firepit. Do you think there is any chance that means i'm going to go dig up some lead ore in my backyard and process it?

And what do you mean no room for error? When someone is posting about smelting down wheel weights on this forum, under what scenario is there "no room for error"

[Reverend Recoil]

Smelting is a process of chemical reduction.

[elmacgyver0]

I don't Care!

[44MAG#1]

This afternoon I'm going to smelt down some wheel weights over my backyard firepit. Do you think there is any chance that means i'm going to go dig up some lead ore in my backyard and process it?

And what do you mean no room for error? When someone is posting about smelting down wheel weights on this forum, under what scenario is there "no room for error"

Are you going to "smelt" or "melt" the wheelweights?
I did NOT say there was no room for error
I say so "IF" there is no room for error.
We all know there IS room for error if not we wouldn't be here as we are full of "error".

[elmacgyver0]

If you do it indoors it's Smelt, outdoors it's melt.

[GONRA]

GONRA bets good olde ALCHEMISTS had discussions like this! WOW!
(Today its "Faith Based Quantum Mechanics"...)

[uscra112]

This has had me gnashing my teeth for years.

SMELTING extracts a pure metal from an ore. In an ore, the metal is molecularly bonded with some other element. For iron, it's oxygen. For lead it's sulphur. Cleaning metallic lead collected from berms is NOT smelting.

There, I feel better now.

[reddog81]

Are you going to "smelt" or "melt" the wheelweights?


I'll be smelting them WWs up real good...:???:

[uscra112]

Smelt, melt,Who gives a flying. Just get there.
This is why we can't have nice things anymore.

[44MAG#1]

This is why we can't have nice things anymore.

What ore are you mining to smelt?

[Sasquatch-1]

This is kind of like the .45 Colt/Long Colt issue. It's .45 Colt but everyone insists on calling it Long Colt.

[45workhorse]

Maybe it self identifies as.....


Sorry couldn't help myself!

[reddog81]

Maybe it self identifies as.....


Sorry couldn't help myself!

Sometimes my zinc wheel weights try to identify as lead. Then you have to cut them with snips to see how soft they really are.

[Old Two Wars]

This has had me gnashing my teeth for years.

SMELTING extracts a pure metal from an ore. In an ore, the metal is molecularly bonded with some other element. For iron, it's oxygen. For lead it's sulphur. Cleaning metallic lead collected from berms is NOT smelting.

There, I feel better now.

Sometimes a Correction is good.As fabricators of our own ammo we have to be as precision as possible like a famous person said "Only Accurate rifles are interesting"

[jsizemore]

Sometimes a Correction is good.As fabricators of our own ammo we have to be as precision as possible like a famous person said "Only Accurate rifles are interesting"

Are you suggesting penalties for not using the Correct word while posting on the forum? If not, folks will do as they please.

[Scrounge]

Do we throw the whole battery in the pot to smelt the lead from the battery or are we putting the lead internals of the battery in the pot and melting that then fluxing the melted lead to then skim the dross (whatever it contains such as dirt and other things) to refine the melted to produce an alloy?

That is entirely up to you, but if you separate the metal from the other stuff, it will be a lot easier. Though if you are doing it as a commercial enterprise, it might just be easier to dump pallets of old batteries into the furnace and go from there.

[Scrounge]

This has had me gnashing my teeth for years.

SMELTING extracts a pure metal from an ore. In an ore, the metal is molecularly bonded with some other element. For iron, it's oxygen. For lead it's sulphur. Cleaning metallic lead collected from berms is NOT smelting.

There, I feel better now.

I feel ya!

Bill

[44MAG#1]

That is entirely up to you, but if you separate the metal from the other stuff, it will be a lot easier. Though if you are doing it as a commercial enterprise, it might just be easier to dump pallets of old batteries into the furnace and go from there.
While I maybe or am the dumbest person here I know we don't dump the whole battery into the pot.

[blackthorn]

Quote: "That is entirely up to you, but if you separate the metal from the other stuff, it will be a lot easier. Though if you are doing it as a commercial enterprise, it might just be easier to dump pallets of old batteries into the furnace and go from there."

That ought to give the Greenies/woke's & EPA nightmares!!!

[Slugster]

I refine lead by alloying it with whatever metal is called for, cleaning by fluxing, molding into proper bars, thus it becomes bullet alloy. AKA casting alloy.

[44MAG#1]

I refine lead by alloying it with whatever metal is called for, cleaning by fluxing, molding into proper bars, thus it becomes bullet alloy. AKA casting alloy.

Do you "MELT" the metal before alloying it or do you "SMELT" the metal by removing it from the "ORE" then alloying it to make bullet alloy that is used to make bullet, boolits, projectiles?

[fragman]

Depends on the time of year. Pretty sure in the Texas summer, we're doing both. Melting while smelting.
ETA for the pedants, I'm aware of the difference between smelting and what we commonly do with our lead, it's a joke :)

[uscra112]

*Sigh* Now we're going to have to review the definition of the word "refining".

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/refine

As in the old way of extracting gold from crushed rock with mercury. First the rock was mixed with the mercury, which would amalgamate with the gold. Then the amalgam was refined by heating to evaporate the mercury. (If you think this was a dangerous process you're right. Which is why the 14th century Spaniards in Peru used slaves to do the work.)

Or as in refining molasses to get pure, white sugar.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I schmelt wheel weights, turning them into clean alloy for casting my boolits.
*
Boolit
Bü·​lit
noun
A projectile, cast from lead. In cases where the lead was not schmelted properly, accuracy may suffer.

Schmelt.
Dang, I've been saying it wrong all these years.
But I always knew to use a schtickle of sawdust ;)

[44MAG#1]

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.
Jockularity is a good think. I have joularitied myself to death.

[ShooterAZ]

This thread just got "Jockularized". Who really cares if it is melting, smelting, refining, or schmelting, as long as it results in galena being poured into a boolit mold... Right? Please Cast some awesome boolits and get on with it!

[44MAG#1]

This thread just got "Jockularized". Who really cares if it is melting, smelting, refining, or schmelting, as long as it results in galena being poured into a boolit mold... Right? Please Cast some awesome boolits and get on with it!
If we don't care about this today then in a couple days we don't care about something else then in a week later we don't care about something else we fall into a not caring attitude.

[GregLaROCHE]

This has had me gnashing my teeth for years.

SMELTING extracts a pure metal from an ore. In an ore, the metal is molecularly bonded with some other element. For iron, it's oxygen. For lead it's sulphur. Cleaning metallic lead collected from berms is NOT smelting.

There, I feel better now.

I agree with you. The correct use for smelting is the process of refining lead from ore (galena) into pure lead. Melting range scrap old water pipes and whatever else, I consider recycling. I once knew someone with a PhD in linguistics. Her point was languages were always evolving and the most important use, was to be able to communicate to each other. It seems that smelting, on this forum is often used for melting down any sort of lead into ingots. So maybe here it goes along in our local to us, dialect along with boolits. Everyone seems to understand what someone is talking about, when they refer to smelting their lead.

[Rockindaddy]

If you are melting old lead sewer pipe in the basement for cast boolits; your wife will tell you she " smelt " something unpleasant! She even has yelled!! Now lead sewer pipe gets rendered outside!!!!

[fragman]

If I say 'clip' (and I mean Beretta, not Garand) , will that trigger anyone?

The question of smelt vs melt was answered early in this thread,

But, ridiculing someone's lack of education only reinforces the lack of your own,

So, if the term 'smelt' ACTUALLY 'gripes' you, look within.