Melting monotype letters and making ingots.

[Krh1326]

Guys,
I fear that I may have gotten over my head, and made a huge mistake.
I’ve acquired a decent cache of monotype type letter blocks, and attempted to melt and make mini muffin ingots.

The melt was very odd…. To me…. compared to what I’ve seen with much lower/ softer alloys.
There was a very thick, dense layer on top, that resembled some kind of spaceman suit bright aluminum colored…. “Pudding” for lack of better word. I kept conducting saw dust, and wax fluxing and skimming, until it was gone, and just a very fluid “normal” looking shiny lead melt remained.
I ladled this into mini muffin tins.

As these muffins cooled, they took on a very very dull aluminum look, a color I’m not so experienced to recognize. So I’m a little on edge and anxious, that I’ve ruined my monotype.

I’m cleaning up, and I went to move the coffee can that I used for the skimmins, and that sucker is heavy! I tapped the deposits with my skimming ladle, and it is rock solid.

Temp of melt stayed in 600-780 F range. It was difficult to control today, due to wind.

Did I skim off good stuff, that should have remained ?

EDIT: I took the can of skimmings, and fired it again, I did get a lot of molten metal, back out of it. I actually got almost a full pan worth of muffins, back from it. They look different, than all the rest. The first ones were a dull aluminum color, these from skimming can, are the color of polished steel and shiny.

So I think I may have separated out something, then reclaimed it.

[fc60]

Greetings,

I recently melted down some MonoType letters into ingots.

When melting, there will be a point where you get a "slushy/pasty" compound on the surface.

This is the metal entering into the transformation from solid to liquid.

Do not panic. Increase the heat and keep stirring soon the metal will eventually become all liquid.

At this point flux well and pour into ingot moulds.

Cheers,

Dave

[jsizemore]

You skimmed off antimony/tin from the melt. You didn't get all of it but it's less than the original, obviously. Throw your dross and ingots back in the pot. When it gets to the foamy/slushy mess on the top stage, take the back side of your spoon and grind the slush into the side of the pot and stir. Keep at it till it's all back in solution except for the sawdust or what has turned to carbon. A little wax fire on top localizes the heat to get the good stuff liquid and stirred in too.

Monotype, stereotype, and linotype is fine the way you get it as it's own recognizable ingot form.

[elmacgyver0]

What is "monotype?"
I have heard of linotype and have some, but I have never heard of monotype.

[BLAHUT]

What is "monotype?"
I have heard of linotype and have some, but I have never heard of monotype.

Used for single letter / number type in printing.

[Krh1326]

I thank you all. I did melt it back down, and started it all over again. Much betterer.

[kevin c]

By any chance, did the type look like this?

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226398&d=1535700030

I was told that the bottom part of the blocks aren’t lead.

[rustyshooter]

Linotype was created on a linotyoe machine and will be strips of letter/sentences. Monotype is individual letters and block symbols or logos that were assembled into compositor sticks and grouped together to make full pages in a chase. There are also spacers/strips that were used. All of these were used specifically for letterpress printing. These 2 types of lead will soon be extinct much like lead wheel weights are in CA. Good news is that 1# of Lino lead will harden 10# of ww lead. So hang on to your lino. Or at the very least use it sparingly. Not many of us left that have letterpress experience. It was abandoned once offset presses became mainstream by the 60’s. I was taught letterpress throughout high school in the 70’s but didn’t use it in the industry after that except for numbering carbonless forms. But we did have a letterpress.

[243winxb]

A low temperature melt, like yours, allows antimony & copper to float on the surface.

[Rapier]

Expensive cards and embossed letterhead use lino or mono type. I use it in my alloy. I run near 1200 degrees to create the alloy outside with Propane and 100 pound cast iron pot. I use commercial flux. If you are alloying antimony and arsenic, chilled lead shot, in your mix with lino it has to get real hot to alloy, not just mix. It is not worth a crap in lumps, like lumps in cream of wheat.
You can alloy using clean clip on wheel weights and chilled lead shot. I use 70% ww, 20% Lino or Mono, 10% CLS makes a 2500-2700 fps plain base PC AR bullet with no GC and sub 1/2" at 100.

[lightman]

The different kinds of type that I have melted required more heat and work than some other things that I have melted. Much like your experience. I have left most of mine in its original form so that when my survivors go to sell it the buyer can recognize it.

[rustyshooter]

I use 70% ww, 20% Lino or Mono, 10% CLS

Sorry….what is CLS?

[MarkP]

There also Foundry type. I bought a barrel full of type. When sorting it out my neighbor came down to see what I was doing. He owned a print shop that was passed down from his father. He told about all of the pieces, and critiqued the linotype. Pointed up things that were wrong with the sticks. Very interesting man he died about 10 yrs ago.

[M-Tecs]

What is "monotype?"
I have heard of linotype and have some, but I have never heard of monotype.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
Monotype 9% tin, 19% antimony, 72% lead

https://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=63031aa385cc4b72b103fa2 dc9320ca8
78Pb-15Sb-7Sn

[LAGS]

Since I bought lots of raw antimony from California supplier, I smelted up some Mono Type.
I got the pure Tin and lead from a place here in Arizona.
The antimony took the longest to smelt down and more dissolved in the melted lead.
Then I would add the Tin.
It is a great very hard metal.
I use it for casting my lead balls for my Ball Mill to make my own Black Powder

[skeettx]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292056-How-much-foundry-type-or-linotype-to-blend-with-pure-lead

[uscra112]

Antique dealers often pay impressive prices for larger monotype pieces. Explore this before you go melting them down.

[colchester]

By any chance, did the type look like this?

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226398&d=1535700030

I was told that the bottom part of the blocks aren’t lead.

Those are what we called cuts. IME the bottoms on yours are probably similar in composition to linotype or lino spacers and in many cases lino spacers were stacked and used in place of the block shown in your pic. The engraved part on yours looks like lead alloy as well composition can vary. What I have seen is both zinc and magnesium used as the printing image. I have also seen these with wood blocks instead of lead like yours

[fredj338]

I use my type metal as it comes to add to my pot when making alloy. No real point in melting into ingots, its already in measurable form.

[Soundguy]

Guys,
I fear that I may have gotten over my head, and made a huge mistake.
I’ve acquired a decent cache of monotype type letter blocks, and attempted to melt and make mini muffin ingots.

The melt was very odd…. To me…. compared to what I’ve seen with much lower/ softer alloys.
There was a very thick, dense layer on top, that resembled some kind of spaceman suit bright aluminum colored…. “Pudding” for lack of better word. I kept conducting saw dust, and wax fluxing and skimming, until it was gone, and just a very fluid “normal” looking shiny lead melt remained.
I ladled this into mini muffin tins.

As these muffins cooled, they took on a very very dull aluminum look, a color I’m not so experienced to recognize. So I’m a little on edge and anxious, that I’ve ruined my monotype.

I’m cleaning up, and I went to move the coffee can that I used for the skimmins, and that sucker is heavy! I tapped the deposits with my skimming ladle, and it is rock solid.

Temp of melt stayed in 600-780 F range. It was difficult to control today, due to wind.

Did I skim off good stuff, that should have remained ?

EDIT: I took the can of skimmings, and fired it again, I did get a lot of molten metal, back out of it. I actually got almost a full pan worth of muffins, back from it. They look different, than all the rest. The first ones were a dull aluminum color, these from skimming can, are the color of polished steel and shiny.

So I think I may have separated out something, then reclaimed it.

As fc60 said..lino and mono take some heat and yes a thick paste forms on top. Keep heating and storing. Flux at the end and skim ash off.

Dull aluminum ingoted are about right.

If you skimmed the thick off..re smelt your skimming dross.

[mnewcomb59]

Look up the differences between foundry type and monotype. Many times foundry gets sold as mono and the seller and the buyer are happy. Foundry are solid blocks with a half round groove. Monotype is generally hollow blocks and square grooves. Foundry is richer than mono and usually has 1-2% copper which is why it melts so funny. It sounds like you have some foundry type to me, which is good news because it goes even further as a sweetener. Probably 12-14% tin, 24-27% antimony and 1-2% copper.

I have found that foundry needs about 45 minutes after it melts to fully mix. I like to wait till the foamy stuff mixes in and flux with wax a few times while I'm waiting. After it is mixed well I will use some wood chips so I know I'm not losing the good stuff when I pull the junk out.

[Rickf1985]

Here is some info I found while looking for identifying marks on monotype and Foundry type.
Note this paragraph in the second link about foundry type with copper in it. Especially the melt temperature. I am going to do a bit more research and see if that is a typo and should read 980 degrees. This was published in 1983 so I would think it would have been corrected by now if incorrect.

"Foundry type is made from an alloy, usually composed of approximately 60.5% lead, 25% antimony, 12% tin and 2.5% copper. The later ingredient is added to increase the durability of the type. Foundry type, with copper, melts at 1980º Fahrenheit."

http://letterpressprinting.com.au/page40.htm

https://www.apa-letterpress.com/T%20&%20P%20ARTICLES/Type/Identifying%20type%20castings.html

Look at the foot. Foundry almost always has a distinct groove across the foot parallel to the nick, whereas almost all Monotype-cast type has either no foot groove or a very slight one near one edge also parallel to the nick. Monotype metal could not be as hard as foundry but it usually does have some more tin and antimony than Linotype, especially Monotype intended for hand setting. For bullets you’re probably better off with Linotype slugs.

[fragman]

Sorry….what is CLS?

I'm going to hazard a guess at 'chilled lead shot'. Just based on it being referred to in a prior post.

[David2011]

Foundry type is the large type that was used to add business names to pre-printed flyers like grocery store weekly ads, special event posters and the like. Monotype is small like Linotype only it’s separate individual letters. I have a 5 gallon bucket of the small Monotype. I’m also old enough to have taken a typesetting class in college that exposed me to the various forms of hot set type as well as a genius professor that explained that computer set type was a fad that would pass and hot set type would prevail.

Monotype exhibits similar foaming characteristics as foundry type and it blends back in with enough heat and good fluxing.

[Rickf1985]

In that typesetting class did they teach you about "Type lice"?

[colchester]

In that typesetting class did they teach you about "Type lice"?

Yep and who hasnt fallen for the warm red ink trick

[kevin c]

Is that like sending new recruits for a length of flight line or the keys to a humvee?

[Rickf1985]

Much older versions of that, these were graphic demonstrations. LOL.

[colchester]

Is that like sending new recruits for a length of flight line or the keys to a humvee?

Yep One of the primary pantone colors is warm red We would mix small batches of pms colors from primary colors. Add the colors and mix together on a glass slab with a 4-6" putty knife. So you got this giant blob of ink on the glass get the new guy to come over and tell him Hey want to see something neat ... when you mix with warm red the ink actually heats up check this out you can actually feel the heat Of course they put their hand over the blob to feel ithe heat and they get their hand pushed down into the blob

[rustyshooter]

Yep One of the primary pantone colors is warm red We would mix small batches of pms colors from primary colors. Add the colors and mix together on a glass slab with a 4-6" putty knife. So you got this giant blob of ink on the glass get the new guy to come over and tell him Hey want to see something neat ... when you mix with warm red the ink actually heats up check this out you can actually feel the heat Of course they put their hand over the blob to feel ithe heat and they get their hand pushed down into the blob

Yeah. Except when he tried it on me I moved my hand away and HIS went in the ink. I looked at him and asked him “is it hot”? Lol and it was in a 5 gallon bucket of ink for the web press!!! His arm went in up to his elbow!

[Shanghai Jack]

Or 100 ft of shoreline

[colchester]

Yeah. Except when he tried it on me I moved my hand away and HIS went in the ink. I looked at him and asked him “is it hot”? Lol and it was in a 5 gallon bucket of ink for the web press!!! His arm went in up to his elbow!

LOL Well, its always good to evaluate your prey ahead of time. We had some some fun back in those days

[41jfischer]

I just had an oppurtuniy to by some lino type at an auction, I thought it had all been used up by now.