Emergency Home Generator

[Brokenbear]

Well several forums I visit seem to have folks talking home generators what with the ugly winter weather, hurricanes, power brown/blackouts, wildfires and other calamities so I thought as I was exercising my gen set today I would take a few pics to share ..
To set the stage my wife has medical equipment that requires power period. ..we are also on a major (new Madrid) fault line which a call to our natural gas supplier confirmed the gas shuts of immediately with any seismic activity eliminating natural gas as fuel ..Propane was looked at but a 20lb bottle is a very short run time on any size gen that would run a gen for say an 8 hours sleep
So gas was the energy source of choice ..
I have had this INVERTER gen set now for 4 years ..I buy non ethanol fuel ..treat it with Stabil and every two years run the two year old gas thru my vehicles and refresh the 12 5 gallon cans dedicated to the genset
So I have on hand 60 treated gallons (stay outside by gen shed) 50 gallons in vehicles and 15 gallons yard n tractor cans
All the stuff I caught on sale but at the time of putting this together my finished cost was slightly over 50% of the 2 quotes I had for a Generack installation ..there is sweat equity involved of course ..and I DO HAVE a second cutout or switch over panel beside my regular home panel..I do have to plug (like and RV cord) into my house the power cord and start the genset and manually switch on the cutout panel but I can do that a lot of times for the $$ difference ..I built and wired everything ..then I hired a licensed electrician to go over my work but honestly the wiring was simple with the instructions that accompanied the the cutout panel

NOTE: the garden hose reel to easily scope out and recover the 75 foot RV Cord

309391309392309393309394309395

Obviously I do not have the hang of the photo process as I Iphoned pic, transferred to laptop, rotated 90 degrees before up loading ..so tilt your head if you want to see ..sorry guys

Bear

[Winger Ed.]

They're pretty popular around here.

I have a duel fuel one, and have accumulated about 10 of those swap out propane tanks.
If they run out, I'll go to gasoline. Between the cars, boat, and a few cans, I figure we have about 75 gallons,
but I don't really want to use gas with it.

We have storms that knock out the power here and there, but usually not for more than several hours.
I just plan to run the refrigerators, and a few lights. In between running the frig. it'll handle the air conditioner.

[georgerkahn]

I feel for you re the medical challenge vis your wife should there be a power outage. A close friend (COPD) has similar re his Oxygen machine -- his "backup" tanks are not good for all that many hours sans power.
I have a Generac AC generator, as well as a Propane-fired one. My brother-in-law convinced me that, with no power, gas stations probably will not be pumping -- while pretty much every quickie-mart has a cage full of propane tanks.
The "new kid on the block" is the teeny power stations. I recently purchased a Bluetti EB3a which provides 100% pure sine-wave power at 600 watts. To complement it, I bought, too, their solar panels -- four folding pieces which charge from zero to 100% in, also, a very few hours -- assuming there is sunshine. ;) You may wish to check out one of there, or their competitors, as yet another option.
BEST!
geo

[HWooldridge]

My first job out of college was servicing emergency gensets for nursing homes. A few were on diesel but most were natural gas or propane, because the fuel doesn’t deteriorate. IIRC, none ran on gasoline - this was in the early 1980’s. We had a milk run across the state and tested them once a month by turning off the utility connection; the genset had to start and run with no delay.

If I needed emergency power for life support, I’d go with some type of vapor fuel; gasoline might be my next choice but I agree with your plan - without alcohol, add Stabil, then plan to dump and swap it once a year. Every two years is pushing it.

[BLAHUT]

Well several forums I visit seem to have folks talking home generators what with the ugly winter weather, hurricanes, power brown/blackouts, wildfires and other calamities so I thought as I was exercising my gen set today I would take a few pics to share ..
To set the stage my wife has medical equipment that requires power period. ..we are also on a major (new Madrid) fault line which a call to our natural gas supplier confirmed the gas shuts of immediately with any seismic activity eliminating natural gas as fuel ..Propane was looked at but a 20lb bottle is a very short run time on any size gen that would run a gen for say an 8 hours sleep
So gas was the energy source of choice ..
I have had this INVERTER gen set now for 4 years ..I buy non ethanol fuel ..treat it with Stabil and every two years run the two year old gas thru my vehicles and refresh the 12 5 gallon cans dedicated to the genset
So I have on hand 60 treated gallons (stay outside by gen shed) 50 gallons in vehicles and 15 gallons yard n tractor cans
All the stuff I caught on sale but at the time of putting this together my finished cost was slightly over 50% of the 2 quotes I had for a Generack installation ..there is sweat equity involved of course ..and I DO HAVE a second cutout or switch over panel beside my regular home panel..I do have to plug (like and RV cord) into my house the power cord and start the genset and manually switch on the cutout panel but I can do that a lot of times for the $$ difference ..I built and wired everything ..then I hired a licensed electrician to go over my work but honestly the wiring was simple with the instructions that accompanied the the cutout panel

NOTE: the garden hose reel to easily scope out and recover the 75 foot RV Cord

309391309392309393309394309395

Obviously I do not have the hang of the photo process as I Iphoned pic, transferred to laptop, rotated 90 degrees before up loading ..so tilt your head if you want to see ..sorry guys

Bear

Great plan. One question ? If you are not around, can your wife get all this started ??

[metricmonkeywrench]

We got our generator shortly after Hurricane Isabell (wow been a while-2003) after being out of power for about 2 weeks. The highlight of the experience was using water from our above ground pool to keep the toilet full.

We have our process fairly down pat now for extended outages, specific extension cords are run from the 4 available outlets to power specific loads, well pump, fridge, TV/lights and the last goes to either a big fan or electric heater.

Due to utility system changes we upgraded our home from a 100a to a 200a service. The advantage I gained is that the main panel is outside and an easy upgrade to install a manual transfer switch. The ability to plug in and run whatever whenever will be nice. Being an older house I could probably run everything but the A/C. I may build a shelter/container on an old leaf sucker trailer to drag the generator around and be able to be able to run in inclement weather.

I will still have the same problem as mentioned before, I have to do all the connecting and starting…. Mama is just not mechanically inclined to carry it off on her own. I would do a whole house auto switch but the thought of adding a 3rd energy source (propane) on top of my electric and oil heat makes my head hurt.

[Brokenbear]

Yes to wife start up ..the hook up is like our RV and the inside cutout panel is flipping 6 switches and start up is step by step placarded on a laminated "go sheet"

Bear

[MarkP]

You may want to look at aviation fuel. 100LL. Stays fresh for two yrs, but do not put it in newer vehicles.

[Dio]

We got our generator shortly after Hurricane Isabell (wow been a while-2003) after being out of power for about 2 weeks. The highlight of the experience was using water from our above ground pool to keep the toilet full.

We have our process fairly down pat now for extended outages, specific extension cords are run from the 4 available outlets to power specific loads, well pump, fridge, TV/lights and the last goes to either a big fan or electric heater.

Due to utility system changes we upgraded our home from a 100a to a 200a service. The advantage I gained is that the main panel is outside and an easy upgrade to install a manual transfer switch. The ability to plug in and run whatever whenever will be nice. Being an older house I could probably run everything but the A/C. I may build a shelter/container on an old leaf sucker trailer to drag the generator around and be able to be able to run in inclement weather.

I will still have the same problem as mentioned before, I have to do all the connecting and starting…. Mama is just not mechanically inclined to carry it off on her own. I would do a whole house auto switch but the thought of adding a 3rd energy source (propane) on top of my electric and oil heat makes my head hurt.

We went 6 days without power after Isabel...we lived in Manassas at the time

[dverna]

I decided propane was the best choice for our situation after dealing with backup gas generators for 20 years.

It costs me $54/year to rent a 500 gallon tank from our supplier. Coupled with the 500 gal tanks we had we can go a long time if need be.

I still have a gas unit as back up.

[GregLaROCHE]

They're pretty popular around here.

I have a duel fuel one, and have accumulated about 10 of those swap out propane tanks.
If they run out, I'll go to gasoline. Between the cars, boat, and a few cans, I figure we have about 75 gallons,
but I don't really want to use gas with it.

We have storms that knock out the power here and there, but usually not for more than several hours.
I just plan to run the refrigerators, and a few lights. In between running the frig. it'll handle the air conditioner.

How does the cost of running propane compare that of gas?

[Froogal]

I decided propane was the best choice for our situation after dealing with backup gas generators for 20 years.

It costs me $54/year to rent a 500 gallon tank from our supplier. Coupled with the 500 gal tanks we had we can go a long time if need be.

I still have a gas unit as back up.

Bingo!! If I were to install a gen-set, it would run on propane, supplied from a dedicated 500 gallon tank.

[Handloader109]

Even a couple of 100 pound tanks would last a good while. Propane is really the best way to go. Gasoline is just harder to deal with, more of a safety risk stored in plastic containers. And deteriorates quickly.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[metricmonkeywrench]

Bingo!! If I were to install a gen-set, it would run on propane, supplied from a dedicated 500 gallon tank.

That's the quandary, If you home already operates off gas (tanked or piped) its an easy decision. We unfortunately have neither, in our rural area there are not enough homes to be worth running a utility gas line (we just got cable something like 5yrs ago after a large housing development was built down the road). I would love to switch the house to gas but that would require a whole house upgrade for heat, Hot water and cooking surfaces which is an extremely high investment. We currently run a boiler for heating and residential use and electric stove/cooktop. I did at one time have delusions of finding a diesel stand by generator and run it off the heating oil tank (DF2) but given the costs involved and the amount of fuel consumed that idea fell by the wayside.

Mama's plan eventually is for a whole house system and i will likely set up a pair of twin 100's to fuel it to keep it simple. I believe propane installs require a pro for insurance reasons. We did learn in last years northern storm when the power went out for a couple days 20lb exchange propane tanks became real hard to find.

[Shawlerbrook]

We just went the Generac whole house route. Expensive, but automatic.

[HWooldridge]

We just went the Generac whole house route. Expensive, but automatic.

That's basically a smaller and simpler nursing home setup. Like you said, expensive but it works without any action on your part.

[.429&H110]

Part of the fun is you have to exercise a genset at least quarterly.
If you expect to run a deep well pump,
make sure the genset will start the motor,
some well pumps start mighty hard.

I might suggest securely shackling the thing
In Helena Montana the children stole my gas jugs.
(Parking lot video made the cops laugh: 6 jugs, boltcutters, gone in 20 seconds)
In Massachusetts I learned "redhot or riveted or it's gone"
Gensets and gasoline are worth stealing to some people.
Lately it seems we have legalized theft.

[MaryB]

How does the cost of running propane compare that of gas?

A 20 pound propane tank is approximately 5 gallons of gas for run time.

[MaryB]

I went solar and battery, got tired of trying to start a generator at -20f... and now after 2 rotator cuff surgeries on my right shoulder and an unrepaired tear on the left cranking on a pull rope is bad for me. Yes I could upgrade to electric start, still have that frozen oil sludge issue when trying to start it, even with synthetic oils.

Now I just flip the extra inverter on(one runs all the time) and good to go. Have enough battery storage to go weeks on critical loads(fridge, freezers, heat).

[Maineboy]

After moving to our current home in 2005, we quickly learned we lived in an area of frequent power outages, especially during high wind events. We bought an 8000 watt gasoline generator that served our needs for many years but it required having to take it from storage, start it, flip the switches in the auxiliary service panel, monitor its fuel consumption, then shut it down when the power came back on. That was all well and good when I was home, but if I wasn't, the house remained without power and that could be pretty serious if it happened to be an extended outage and the temperature was below zero. And there was no way Mrs. Maineboy was able to take care of it if she was home by herself. In 2021 we purchased a Generac whole house system with a dedicated 500 gallon propane tank and are very happy with it. It has the cold weather "package" that includes oil and battery heaters. No worries when I am away and if we have an extended outage, we have plenty of fuel with the large tank.

[Brokenbear]

I don't think I have seen a bad idea yet and I certainly can understand using using natural gas as the #1 energy source if you are not setting on a major fault zone ..and I could buy into $54 500 gallon tank rental but would have what $1000 plus sitting there staring at me but I freely admit to doing it if above ground tans were allowed where we like but we cannot and buying and burying 500 or propane tank gets high dollar reel quick plus in my case still a fault zone concern

For you guys who are using gas gensets I have provided a link to a real game changer ..a battery powered transfer pump with automatic shut off just like a service station pump.. No wrestling full 5 gallon gas cans to carefully fill the genset..no spills what so ever ..no wrestling full 5 gallon gas cans to your vehicle when it is time to rotate your back up fuel supply and you NEVER spill a drop
This thing runs on 4 AA batteries which i have yet to replace (fully cycled out my 60 gallon supply to my vehicles) and it comes with adapters to fit most plastic 5 gal cans
I am sure there are others but I know this one is awesome for sure ..I estimate it takes about 3 min to pump 5 gal in my vehicle with the can on the ground and the nozzle in the fill spout ..when the 5 gal can is on equal or near level with the nozzle it will empty in less than 2 min

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010GNM7H4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Another game changer is the garden hose reel that I mounted on a rack to unreel and wind up a very heavy power cord

Bear

[Froogal]

That's the quandary, If you home already operates off gas (tanked or piped) its an easy decision. We unfortunately have neither, in our rural area there are not enough homes to be worth running a utility gas line (we just got cable something like 5yrs ago after a large housing development was built down the road). I would love to switch the house to gas but that would require a whole house upgrade for heat, Hot water and cooking surfaces which is an extremely high investment. We currently run a boiler for heating and residential use and electric stove/cooktop. I did at one time have delusions of finding a diesel stand by generator and run it off the heating oil tank (DF2) but given the costs involved and the amount of fuel consumed that idea fell by the wayside.

Mama's plan eventually is for a whole house system and i will likely set up a pair of twin 100's to fuel it to keep it simple. I believe propane installs require a pro for insurance reasons. We did learn in last years northern storm when the power went out for a couple days 20lb exchange propane tanks became real hard to find.

Not enough homes out here for natural gas either. Even the closest small town is not connected to natural gas. Every home is on propane. 500 gallon tank or larger. Been that way for many, many years. Before that, homes were heated with fuel oil, and before that it was wood or coal.

[ulav8r]

A 500 gallon tank will be considered full at 400 gallons, the extra space allows for changed in volume due to temperature changes. Here propane is currently $2.19 per gallon. Purchasing a tank will be just over $6 per gallon, makes renting reasonable.

[Winger Ed.]

For you guys who are using gas gensets I have provided a link to a real game changer ..a battery powered transfer pump with automatic shut off just like a service station pump..

I got small el-cheapo one that has clamps for the car battery. I like it.
Sometimes I have to pull fuel out of the boat, and it floats lower than the dock.

Getting gas from the car with the piece of fuel line hose is OK--- here, we call that a Oklahoma credit card.
But the electric pump sure is handy.

[shooterg]

That's the quandary, If you home already operates off gas (tanked or piped) its an easy decision. We unfortunately have neither, in our rural area there are not enough homes to be worth running a utility gas line (we just got cable something like 5yrs ago after a large housing development was built down the road). I would love to switch the house to gas but that would require a whole house upgrade for heat, Hot water and cooking surfaces which is an extremely high investment. We currently run a boiler for heating and residential use and electric stove/cooktop. I did at one time have delusions of finding a diesel stand by generator and run it off the heating oil tank (DF2) but given the costs involved and the amount of fuel consumed that idea fell by the wayside.

Mama's plan eventually is for a whole house system and i will likely set up a pair of twin 100's to fuel it to keep it simple. I believe propane installs require a pro for insurance reasons. We did learn in last years northern storm when the power went out for a couple days 20lb exchange propane tanks became real hard to find.

I'm in rural VA also. Changed over the old house from fuel oil to propane furnace and heat pump was the best thing we ever did to the old crib ! Would like to have a propane Generac but not in the budget yet !

[MrWolf]

I'm in rural VA also. Changed over the old house from fuel oil to propane furnace and heat pump was the best thing we ever did to the old crib ! Would like to have a propane Generac but not in the budget yet !

Best thing I ever did was getting the Generac house generator and a dedicated 500 gal propane tank. Power got knocked out Friday from my area into Maryland for well over six hours. That is a long time with no furnace running in this cold. Saved my butt multiple times over.

[Edward]

I installed a 10 K Generac , test runs every Friday ,change oil every year and done/Ed

[sailcaptain]

I like your shed and setup you have. That’s my next step to complete my generator. I have the Champion Tri-Fuel model. It works great, but it is hard to start. I only use natural gas and do have 3 Propane tanks on stand by if needed.
Mine is truly portable right now. I wheel it from garage to the pad behind the house and hook up to the electric box mounted to the home. From there I’m wired to the panel in the house.
I use a product called CordPro to store my gas and electric line. Keeps it all nicely stored ready for use.
The issue is the hard starting. They do need to be “exercised” weekly to keep the battery charged and I’m just not doing that. I need to get better with this. Once running it will power the home and potential for more.
What is the name of the shed you have?
309638309639

[Rich/WIS]

Went with an 13 KW LP Generac at the house in WI. Ran the well, heat (both LP furnace and outdoor wood boiler), and enough lights and receptacles to keep fridge and a few kitchen items on in an emergency. Automatically cycles weekly and was easy to install if you have basic electrical skills. This was in 2001 and IIRC cost about $2500. We were on LP already so no need to buy or rent a tank.

[Big Goose]

We went with a 18 KW Winnco PTO driven generator, have it mounted on a trailer so its easy to tow it over to my son & daughter-in-laws, or my Moms if needed there. It does require at least 30 PTO hp but our 50 hp diesel tractor will happily keep it at max output for less than a half gallon an hour. Maybe not the most efficient, but the portability is awesome, and any of our farm tractors will power it fine.
B.G.

[Rapier]

If you want reliable backup, reliable is the true working idea, go with vapor and not liquid. I went with two 1,000 gallon buried propane tanks with cross over connections. Sounds like over kill, but also went with spray foam insulation on 3 buildngs, heated by propane. So the generator runs all of the electric at one time, except the heavy draw equipment like the three phase Bridgeport in my shop, I leave the heavy stuff off. But does cover the deep well pump on start up with the three buildings operating. I have a 23 KW air cooled Generac System runs and has run for weeks straight.
Forgot, I have battery backups on all electronic equipment, cleans up the power output and saves the delicate stuff.

[Brokenbear]

I like your shed and setup you have. That’s my next step to complete my generator. I have the Champion Tri-Fuel model. It works great, but it is hard to start. I only use natural gas and do have 3 Propane tanks on stand by if needed.
Mine is truly portable right now. I wheel it from garage to the pad behind the house and hook up to the electric box mounted to the home. From there I’m wired to the panel in the house.
I use a product called CordPro to store my gas and electric line. Keeps it all nicely stored ready for use.
The issue is the hard starting. They do need to be “exercised” weekly to keep the battery charged and I’m just not doing that. I need to get better with this. Once running it will power the home and potential for more.
What is the name of the shed you have?
309638309639

Suncast Stow-Away 6X4X4 sits on framed 2x4's with patio sand packed and then solid half blocks laid tight ..then 4 anchors thu the floor of the shed into the concrete blocks ..inside of the shed is a "Horse anti skid mat" (heavy 7/16" mat to absorb sound and vibration)(Tractor Supply)
That OSB board box takes air in the top from outside (grated and screen intake) ..air runs thru baffles and exits out the bottom of the box to flow air across the genset

https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/sheds-accessories/sheds/suncast-reg-stow-away-reg-6-x-4-x-4-horizontal-outdoor-storage-shed/bms4700/p-1444444186334-c-9658.htm?tid=-8103678246710355324&ipos=12

By the way ..I am having trouble understanding a portable natural gas ??? but then again i don't know anything about natural gas but I do know it still has to have air intake for any gas to burn so get yourself a can of starting fluid ..pop off the air breather ..squirt a shot of starting fluid in the intake and it will start

I do know natural gas is the least energy of the three and takes longer to fill the voids in the system so when the engine starts on the starting fluid it will suck in and pass thru the dead air and then will quicky intake explosive NG and air mix (internally in the engine) and then run on it's own without any additional starting fluid
Bear

[lightman]

When I retired in 2015 I bought a 22KW Generac with an automatic transfer switch. Natural gas was available and was very dependable so thats what I went with. If there were any issues with natural gas I would have gone with propane and a 500 gallon tank. I looked at every option and that was the one that I liked best. I looked at inverters on my diesel truck, inverters on my diesel tractor, PTO generators on my tractor, hauling diesel, hauling gas, moving portable generators, messing with extension cords, ect. I just didn't want the hassle.

[winelover]

My ten year old 22KM propane Generac has been running since 11:15 PM, last evening. Lost power from the snow storm were having. I have a 1000 gallon underground tank. It's filled to the 90% level, because it's buried. You must own your tank to bury it and to negotiate the best price on propane. If you rent, your stuck buying propane from whomever your renting from, at an inflated price.

Winelover

[HWooldridge]

NG and propane also use different jet sizes so those have to be swapped before switching from one fuel to the other.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - Mainboy did it RIGHT! If yer out in the boonies, PROPANE / GENERAC......

[sailcaptain]

Brokenbear, sorry for the late response. Lots going on here. But I deeply appreciate your help.
As far as Portable Natural gas, thats not what I have. I have a 3/4” Natural gas line out to my generator pad, piped directly from my homes natural gas service.
I’ve never heard of using Starting Fluid first sprayed into the air cleaner but I will try it tomorrow. My fingers are crossed in hopes it helps. Thank you for your response and help.
I’ll updated you as to what I find.
Your are complete correct that Natural Gas is the lesser of the three fuels that can be used. But in my case, you would never know it. I am amazed at the amount of systems I can use once the generator is connected. So when needed, I have completed confidence I can keep the home up to use for the basic needs.

[sailcaptain]

Brokenbear,
You are 100% on target. Tried your suggestion of a shot of starting fluid in the intake and it started. Never had such ease of starting as I did this morning.
I knew I had a can of the stuff in the garage somewhere, just had to go hunting for it. I only had a small amount left in the can and hoped it would be enough….The tiny shot of starting fluid was so small I’ll still have this can for years!
No….I went and treated myself to new can today.
Thank you for the help and guidance.
Great advice!

[BD]

I spent a lot of my career building high end residential, more than 20 years now. Every job I've built, but one, has had emergency backup power and at the end of the day, after all the discussion with the architects, homeowners and engineers, the choice has, (but for one), always been LP for fuel, and anything over 1,000 gallons is nearly always underground tanks. I've supervised the installation of systems up to 11,900 gallons.
Depending on where you live, and how much propane you use on a regular basis, your supplier may provide the tank. At home I have an LP Rinnai heater, (backup for the solar when we are out of town), an LP on demand water heater and an LP kitchen range. Based on that usage model our local supplier provided a 500 gallon above ground tank. If I had a traditional home and was using LP for heat they would have provided a 1,000 gallons tank. If all the LP you are using is the backup "emergency only" generator, they may not see you as consuming enough fuel on a regular basis to make it practical to provide you a bulk tank at their expense. But it is definitely worth discussing it with them. If they are truly "local" they may agree to providing a tank based on your wife's medical needs. For a small generator like you are considering, assuming you are not in the frozen north, the fuel storage requirement is simple math, gallons per hour consumed by your generator, at the required load, times the number of hours you believe you will need to get you through the power outage. Below the northern tier of the US an above ground bulk tank should work fine.

[Pipefitter]

About 10 years ago a neighbor had a whole house Generac, dedicated propane generator installed. His entire house was electric, geothermal furnace, elec range and water heater. 500 gallon propane tank was exclusively used for the generator. Of course, the generator starts and runs for about 10 minutes once a week to keep the battery charged. Now, this guy was a "snowbird" that spent the cold months south of the Mason/Dixon line. A couple years after he had his generator and propane tank installed we had a minor power outage in the "colder months", only about 4-5 hours, but I noticed that his generator did not automatically start. I gave him a call and told him that the power was out but his generator wasn't running.
Within a couple days I saw a couple guys checking out his system, went to talk with them to find out what the problem was.....
It turns out the neighbor never checked the oil level in the engine, or checked the amount of fuel in the propane tank.......

[Brokenbear]

This good info for everyone folks so keep'em coming

Bear