Lee 9mm 4-die set questions

[oldhenry]

I'm trying to help my grandson-in-law get started in reloading by donating items that I don't use any more. I didn't have a spare 9mm die set and there seems to be very few choices. I think the Lee 4 die set will do the job, but I have 2 questions that the Lee site doesn't answer.

1. Can I assume that the Lee powder though die can be used only with Lee's powder dispensers (any way to adapt to Lyman 55?).

2. Can I assume that the "Factory Crimp Die" is the same as a taper crimp die in the 9mm set? If not, how does it differ?

Thanks for any input.
Henry

[243winxb]

The RCBS has some useful features, like M expander & tapered carbide fl die. 2 nose plugs. $37.46 SALE.

Buy a shell holder. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011340070?pid=757170 I have this set.
Manufacturer #: 20515

[243winxb]

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=Lee+4+die+set+9mm

"Factory Crimp Die" does taper crimp, but also post sizes the loaded rounds. Never needed when using quality loading practices. Bad idea, IMO.

[hoodat]

The "Powder through the die" feature prolly isn't used by most of us. Only scenario where I see it is with powder dipper. jd

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

1. Can I assume that the Lee powder though die can be used only with Lee's powder dispensers (any way to adapt to Lyman 55?).

I use the Lee Pro auto disk measure with the Lee powder though die. Works great. If it's on a turret press, you'll need the Lee Extension adaptor. I've seen other "custom made" adaptors on Fleabay for using the Lyman 55 or RCBS dispensors with the Lee powder though die.




2. Can I assume that the "Factory Crimp Die" is the same as a taper crimp die in the 9mm set? If not, how does it differ?

If your grandson-in-law is loading with jacketed bullets, the Lee Factory Crimp Die works just fine. But as 243winxb it does have a carbide post sizer, which most agree causes problems with cast boolits, especially if the cast boolits are over sized, because it can reduce their size and effect case tension on the cast boolit.

Good Luck.

[oldhenry]

Thanks gentlemen. I think I'll look elsewhere for a conventional taper crimp die. I only use enough taper crimp to remove the bell & he will be using cast boolits.

John B. thanks for the Ebay tip.

Henry

[gloob]

Thanks gentlemen. I think I'll look elsewhere for a conventional taper crimp die. I only use enough taper crimp to remove the bell & he will be using cast boolits.

John B. thanks for the Ebay tip.

Henry

The seating die can be used to taper crimp while seating a bullet. It can also be used to apply a taper crimp separately, after seating, if you use a single stage press. So the 4 die set comes with 2 taper dies in it, but they're both combo dies.

You can also knock the carbide ring out of the FCD to turn it into a taper crimp-only die.

Lee sells taper crimp-only dies, but I think they're typically ala carte.

[Dahak]

My Lyman 55 is mounted to the powder through die via an adapter. I use this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/162492436465
Long term durability report is good (20K + rounds), provided that you swap out the bottom o-rings when things get wobbly. Happens when you swap the adapter between multiple dies for caliber changes too much. Real solution is get more adapters and move the powder measure between them (Redding T-7 and I use multiple turrets).

[mdi]

If proper methods are used, an FCD is totally unnecessary (and can be detrimental). I started reloading revolver cartridges in 1970 and semi-auto cartridges in 1990 (took a 5 year break 1980 to 1985). In all that time, that many rounds, I have never needed to use an FCD (aka post crimping sizing die). I tried one once on four handloads, the FCD now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon...

[gloob]

Agree. I always bought the 4 die pistol sets, anyway, if only to get all my die boxes to match and stack.

[hoodat]

I like the Lee die sets just fine, but I've never used the factory crimp die either. I guess I'd try it if I had a finicky pistol or some problem. jd

[Froogal]

I have reloaded MANY 9mm cartridges using the LEE 4 die set. Never a problem. I have the LEE powder dispense mounted to the press, and more or less hanging over the powder through die. A funnel completes the set up.

I also use the factory crimp die for every caliber I reload. Wouldn't be without it.

I like the LEE products. Some folks don't and will run down the LEE every chance they get.

[poppy42]

I have reloaded MANY 9mm cartridges using the LEE 4 die set. Never a problem. I have the LEE powder dispense mounted to the press, and more or less hanging over the powder through die. A funnel completes the set up.

I also use the factory crimp die for every caliber I reload. Wouldn't be without it.

I like the LEE products. Some folks don't and will run down the LEE every chance they get.

^ this

[Castaway]

hoodat, the powder through expanding die can be used with a Dillon or Hornady progressive presses as well as with a Lee Disk kit. It also bells the case simultaneously. They’re not just for loading through the hole with a dipper

[oldhenry]

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=Lee+4+die+set+9mm

"Factory Crimp Die" does taper crimp, but also post sizes the loaded rounds. Never needed when using quality loading practices. Bad idea, IMO.

Thanks for the tip on the RCBS 3 die set. I've always had good results with RCBS dies. I'm sending that info on to my grandson-in-law: he'll never beat that price.

[Sam Sackett]

If you are loading cast bullets with the 9mm set, the powder thru die may not expand the case enough. This may crush the cast bullet when it’s pushed into the case. This will cause leading.
A work around I have used successfully is to get on the Lee website and look for “parts”. Under pistol dies, look for the 38 S&W set. Order that powder thru expander. It is the same length thru 5he body as the 9mm, but the expanding section is slightly larger. Install this in the 9mm powder thru die and load away.

Solved the problem for me!
Sam Sackett

[gloob]

I have reloaded MANY 9mm cartridges using the LEE 4 die set. Never a problem. I have the LEE powder dispense mounted to the press, and more or less hanging over the powder through die. A funnel completes the set up.

I also use the factory crimp die for every caliber I reload. Wouldn't be without it.

I like the LEE products. Some folks don't and will run down the LEE every chance they get.

My reloading equipment is 95% Lee with zero complaints. But the pistol FCD is garbage design. No one is bashing on Lee to point that out.

You can use it on all your reloads and still have perfect ammo, especially if you are loading nominally sized bullets (jacketed).

The problem is that if you're making perfect ammo with it, the carbide post-sizing ring isn't tight enough to do anything. If you were making ammo for which the post-sizing ring did occasionally do anything to the round, that round might chamber freely in your guns, thanks to the FCD. But it would also lose neck tension.

[oldhenry]

If you are loading cast bullets with the 9mm set, the powder thru die may not expand the case enough. This may crush the cast bullet when it’s pushed into the case. This will cause leading.
A work around I have used successfully is to get on the Lee website and look for “parts”. Under pistol dies, look for the 38 S&W set. Order that powder thru expander. It is the same length thru 5he body as the 9mm, but the expanding section is slightly larger. Install this in the 9mm powder thru die and load away.

Solved the problem for me!
Sam Sackett

Thanks for the tip. I like inside info.

[hoodat]

hoodat, the powder through expanding die can be used with a Dillon or Hornady progressive presses as well as with a Lee Disk kit. It also bells the case simultaneously. They’re not just for loading through the hole with a dipper

I gotcha. Figured it was like that. I don't use a turret or progressive, so my charging is done in a separate step. I'm not adverse to putting a scoop of powder through it though. I'm setting up my grandson with a simple outfit to do 38's with, and that may well be the way that we'll go. Just ordered the Lee three die set last night. jd

[hoodat]

As far as Lee equipment in general, a person would be crazy to ignore many of the brilliant and usually inexpensive solutions that Lee comes up with to make our life easier.

Might be biased, because I started out with Lee loaders when I was a kid. I'm also an insufferable tight wad. My loading equipment consists of many different manufacture brands, and Lee is pretty will represented. jd

[Photog]

I use the Lee 4 die sets in my Hornady LNL AP, the Dillon 650 is hardly ever used. The lee dies are little short for the Dillon setup anyways.
In Position One, I use a sizer/decapper with Squirrel Daddy pins. in Position 2 I use a Powder Through flaring die or a universal flaring die. Then Hornady Powder drop station. Then Lee Bullet seating die with VERY Little crimp, this is a taper crimp delivered in the usual seating die.
Then I almost always do a full crimp using a FCD. Its not really a taper crimp or roll crimp - the FCD delivers a crimp by squeezing the case mouth after it is inserted all the way into the die, and is more adjustable than taper crimps that also seat the boolit. Doing this make the seating and crimping 2 seperate actions, and preserves the straightness of the case mouth. Works better for me. I learned this while loading major .40 in lead using a special "U" die (under-size made by Lee - something the other mfgs don't do). the U Die prevents the bullet from seating properly when its also getting crimped - but removing the crimp from the seating action works great.
A good mechanic will try different tools and pick the one they like. As an electrician I have some Klein stuff, but not everything they make is great. As a bike mechanic I used plenty of Park Tools, but plenty of other brands (Campy, VAR, even Pedros) make stuff that works better. I don't need a full set of Snap Ons to rebuild an engine either - heck I hardly use the combo wrench anymore. And unless it strips a nut, I'll use whatever wrench gets the job done. I've tried RCBS and Dillon dies, and they don't work any better than Lee dies, they just have a few different features. I kinda standardized on Lee because I'm used to them and they work fine. But then again there is a LNL AP bolted to the inside bench while the XL650 is out in the garage and never used because the primer system and configure-ability is superior on the Hornady. I value those things over the pure speed of the Dillon (when it works).

[gloob]

Then Lee Bullet seating die with VERY Little crimp, this is a taper crimp delivered in the usual seating die.
Then I almost always do a full crimp using a FCD. Its not really a taper crimp or roll crimp - the FCD delivers a crimp by squeezing the case mouth after it is inserted all the way into the die, and is more adjustable than taper crimps that also seat the boolit. Doing this make the seating and crimping 2 seperate actions, and preserves the straightness of the case mouth.

I agree 100% that taper crimping in a separate step after seating will improve your consistency, a bit. But I don't think the Lee pistol FCDs are significantly better at doing this than a regular taper crimp die.

The rifle FCDs apply a collet crimp to the case mouth acting the way you describe. The case shoulder pushes on the die, and this causes the collet to close and perform the crimp. A pistol FCD looks like a normal taper crimp die to me, except there's a carbide ring at the mouth to do the extra function of squishing down the entire cartridge if you use large cast boolits and/or thick brass.

If you don't want the post-sizing ring effect and you just want the taper crimp in a separate die from the seater, at a cheap combined cost, you can knock out that carbide ring, and it will taper crimp just the same.

The carbide ring shouldn't really do anything too good or bad, if your brass is consistent and you shoot jacketed or cast that is only 1 thous over. If the cartridges are so fat that they get post-sized, the ring should make them chamber in most guns. And it's probably not a major safety issue, because the case behind the bullet should still prevent it from setting back. But the cast bullet will be squished a bit smaller, and neck tension will be reduced. It probably would be better for your accuracy if you removed these rounds and figured out how to avoid that problem before it happens. E.g., sizing your bullets so they're more consistent in size, before you seat them. Or sorting out thicker oddball headstamps.

For pistol, the people who would benefit from FCD are the ones who want to crank out high volume ammo that functions and goes bang without jamming. Because they don't want to take the time to do gauge/chamber checks or sort brass. Strange to hear someone advocating it for accuracy reasons.

[Sam Sackett]

Hoodat, while you are ordering, go ahead and order the Lee Pro disc powder measure. Those things are amazingly consistent, especially with finer grain powders like Bullseye and HP38/231. Plus the last I checked they cost less than $50. Titan Reloading is the prime distributor for Lee Precision and usually has the best prices.

Sam Sackett

[deces]

Since the Lee pro 6000, Lee has been going heavy on product development. There is a newly designed bullet feeder that will be out in a month or so and supposedly Lee will be introducing a new M style die to their catalog.

[45_Colt]

The rifle FCDs apply a collet crimp to the case mouth acting the way you describe. The case shoulder pushes on the die, and this causes the collet to close and perform the crimp. A pistol FCD looks like a normal taper crimp die to me, except there's a carbide ring at the mouth to do the extra function of squishing down the entire cartridge if you use large cast boolits and/or thick brass.

The collet style FCD, is activated by pressure from the shell holder. The die is squeezed between the outer threaded portion and the shell holder or ram. Not on the shoulder of the case.

Note that there are also collet style FCDs available for some pistol/revolver cartridges. Have been using ones for the .357 SIG and .45 Colt.

45_Colt

[slickracer]

I have reloaded MANY 9mm cartridges using the LEE 4 die set. Never a problem. I have the LEE powder dispense mounted to the press, and more or less hanging over the powder through die. A funnel completes the set up.

I also use the factory crimp die for every caliber I reload. Wouldn't be without it.

I like the LEE products. Some folks don't and will run down the LEE every chance they get.

Another Lee fan here, I’ve had nothing but success with their products.