.360 Buckhammer

[dverna]

Interesting.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/360-buckhammer/

[BadgerShooter]

At least it's in .358 instead of .355. It wouldn't exist if some states didn't make ill considered rules. If it was rimless, it might be a bit more versatile but having the ability to make it out of 30-30 brass is nice.

[MarkP]

180 gr near 2,400 fps .....pretty salty round. Within 150 to 200 fps of a 308 loaded with 180 gr bullets.

[Loudenboomer]

We've had the 38-55 for about a century and a half and the 375 Win. for a good chunk of that. Another solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[NSB]

I’ve owned several different .357max barrels and several different guns with threaded barrels on a couple of guns in 357max. I also own a chronograph. I can easily and safely get 2377 fps with my 180g pet load in .357max and I’ve shot several deer out to 200 yards with them. Dave White (rip) promoted this cartridge and load(s) for years and many who buy MGM, Bullberry, and other aftermarket barrels are shooting loads like this all the time. This cartridge never achieved its full potential when it was developed for IHMSA Silhouette with the expection that it was only a handgun cartridge. None of the new offerings have yet done anything significantly better, or even better at all. I think most of the new ones are all about selling proprietary ammo and/or guns. My latest addition is an SSK 16.75” bull barrel with a muzzle break sitting in a custom stock set with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 30mm Twilight Hunter with CDS dial. It will shoot five shots into 1moa on a very frequent basis and kills with authority. Brass is reasonably easy to get and bullets are plentiful.
309250309313
A couple of 100 yard five shot groups with this short barreled “ground blind” gun.

[dverna]

I guess I am liking it because I have toyed with the idea of .35/30.

The .360 operates at a higher pressure (50k) than the .38/55 (35k) so it will get a bit more performance.

The issue with the .357 Max is ammunition is extremely hard to find and there are no guns (or very few) chambered for it. From a marketing perspective, re-introducing the .357 Max would be a fizzle.

BTW, I am guilty of thinking like a reloader so not much that is "new and improved" impresses me. But most people buy ammunition and that is another nail in the .357 Max coffin.

If I were to get a .360 BH, I would still want to get 500 cases, but there is the upside of being able to form cases from .30/30 cases if need be. There are no "cheap" ways to get .357 Max brass.

This seems to address the negatives of the .350L. Proprietary case and .355 bore.

Where they have the silly cartridge rules for deer hunting, this provides another choice. One that will be offered in a lever action rifle. The downside will be not being AR friendly.

I doubt it will be commercially successful. Most people facing cartridge restrictions have already jumped on the .450 BM and .350L trains.

[rintinglen]

We've had the 38-55 for about a century and a half and the 375 Win. for a good chunk of that. Another solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Not quite. There are millions of hunters who can not use the 38-55 due to the "straight wall"* limitation put on cartridges by well meaning but ignorant legislatures. This cartridge and it's similar siblings, the 350 Legend and the older 357 Maximum represent useful modern cartridges that allow these folks to use rifles in formerly shotgun only areas.

I will say that this seems to me an idea that is a little late forthcoming. It remains to be seen if the .360 can catch up to the .350, given the head start that the latter has had. I suspect that this will be another 30 Super Carry.

*Although I used the "straight case" as a name for the hunting regulations on cartridges in some mid-western states, I should state that they usually require a minimum 35 caliber bullet in a case not longer than 1.8 inches. My cousin trims 45-70 cases to 1.8 inches for use in Southern Michigan in his Marlin.
Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Iowa were mentioned in one article I read, though I believe that in at least some of these, the restriction only applies to parts of the state. But there are a whole lot of deer hunters in those states who may benefit from the new "short, straight" cartridges. For myself, I'll stick to my Marlin 44 Mag or my Rossi .357, but I understand that I am old and no longer enamored of "new" just because it is new.

[Loudenboomer]

The straight wall rule is not an issue in my area. The 38-55 and 375 Win are within a few thousands of being straight. For the states that have that rule. Does enforcement use a micrometer or do they have a list of approved cartridges?

[Pereira]

Not quite. There are millions of hunters who can not use the 38-55 due to the "straight wall" limitation put on cartridges by well meaning but ignorant legislatures. This cartridge and it's similar siblings, the 350 Legend and the older 357 Maximum represent useful modern cartridges that allow these folks to use rifles in formerly shotgun only areas.

I will say that this seems to me an idea that is a little late forthcoming. It remains to be seen if the .360 can catch up to the .350, given the head start that the latter has had. I suspect that this will be another 30 Super Carry.

And the rifle being made by Henry... they can't even produce what they are already trying to sell.
Just how many states require the short 1.8" case length any who?
Who is going to buy enough to even make it profitable?
One thing going for 'em is they already have 30-30 bolts, and 35 Rem. barrels.

RP

[Pereira]

The straight wall rule is not an issue in my area. The 38-55 and 375 Win are within a few thousands of being straight. For the states that have that rule. Does enforcement use a micrometer or do they have a list of approved cartridges?

And the fo-fo-fo.
Is the 45/70 tapered?

RP

[NSB]

There is NO problem getting .357max brass. I’m sitting on about 1,500 and it’s currently available from Starline. https://www.starlinebrass.com/357-maximum. It doesn’t need to be “reintroduced”, it never left. There is a rather large following for this cartridge….honest. It is a reloader’s opportunity to find and develop great loads for deer and small game hunting. Bullets are really plentiful and unlike the other cartridges mentioned, you can shoot 38spl, and .357mag rounds out of your gun.

[stubshaft]

I'd be more interested in getting my hands on some of the brass to form 357 Herretts.

[cwlongshot]

Im excited about it.

https://youtu.be/oVHSEfnpxTM

[Jedman]

The velocity numbers seem a little high for a case volume of that size. It is interesting and might have a small advantage over the 357 max. but I have 3 rifles in the max and doubt I will buy something in the 360 BH . Where I live in southern MI we do have the strait walled / 1.8” rule for the lower half of the state so it will probably be big here as the 450 bushmaster and 350 legend have been very popular recently.
Jedman

[dverna]

The .357 Max is a great cartridge....for the reloader. I just looked on Gunbroker and there are no rifles available and a handful of pistols. Makes no difference how good it is if Joe Deer Camp cannot buy a rifle or ammo for it.

There is no ammunition available for it on Ammoseek except this stuff at nearly $2/rd:

https://www.venturamunitions.com/ventura-heritage-357-maximum-180gr-jhp-ammo-50-rounds/

.350 Legend hunting ammo is about $1.20/rd and lots of choices. Plus they have FMJ ammo for about $.70/rd.

Like I mentioned earlier....we tend to think like reloaders and forget the market is NOT us.

I reload, but if I wanted/needed something like this I would not get a .357 Max. Why buy a gun and pay to have it converted when I can buy a gun off the shelf?

But it has a tough road ahead. I have a buddy who hunts downstate and he has both a .450 and .350. (BTW, he bought the .350 because the .450 was beating him up too much) The .360 is late to the party IMO.

[NSB]

Getting a rifle for it is as simple as taking a Henry single shot to a mediocre gunsmith and running a reamer into it to lengthen the chamber. If you own a TC Encore or Contender, or any other single shot .357mag rifle you can buy an aftermarket barrel or have your barrel reamed out. MGM, Bullberry, SSK, and several other companies make barrels for this cartridge. I’m going to bet that getting .360 Buckhammer ammo isn’t going to be a walk in the park. Coming along this late isn’t going to set any sales records and I’m willing to bet finding loaded ammo in any gun store is going to be extremely difficult. If you don’t reload, anyone with a set of .357mag dies can load ammo for you…..cheaply. Give them a hundred empty cases and you’re probably set for hunting ammo for several years. It’s NO harder to load than .357mag ammo is. I’ll bet I can find more empty .357max cases than I can Buckhammer cases. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the .360 Buckhammer round, I’m just saying there won’t be a glut of ammo anywhere. It’s going to be like looking for 5mm rimfire ammo. It’s out there, but no one can find any of it.

[Rapier]

This is impossible to do, buy a Henry 357 mag sngle shot, run a reamer into it and you have a 357 Super Mag rifle. This is my Tiger stripe big leaf maple Martini Cadet 357 Super Mag.Kills deer DRT.

[backwoods_bob]

Doesn't seem like a good marketing move. .360 sounds odd to American hunters. A shortened .375 Winchester or a lengthened .40 S&W to meet the size requirements. Both sound powerful and could use some existing machinery to make.

The .40 should work in lever actions, rim is close to a 35 Remington, and AR pattern rifles.

[barnetmill]

Remington sent me an email titled deer fear.

I guess it is an attempt to sell more ammunition and guns. Too bad Remington does not sell lever action guns any more.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0LdB0COjPo

[barnetmill]

........ I suspect that this will be another 30 Super Carry.
Probably needs another thread if there were any new information. For the 30 super carry to thrive someone has to design a handgun specifically built around its dimension to make a sub compact pocket size pistol holding a lot of rounds. Chambering it in a pistol intended for a 9x19 gives only the little advantage of a round or two more.
It seems that this .360 Buckhammer will have a specific niche market. I would not want one, but then I do not hunt anymore. 30-30 and .35 Remington work well for me.

[dverna]

Getting a rifle for it is as simple as taking a Henry single shot to a mediocre gunsmith and running a reamer into it to lengthen the chamber. If you own a TC Encore or Contender, or any other single shot .357mag rifle you can buy an aftermarket barrel or have your barrel reamed out. MGM, Bullberry, SSK, and several other companies make barrels for this cartridge. I’m going to bet that getting .360 Buckhammer ammo isn’t going to be a walk in the park. Coming along this late isn’t going to set any sales records and I’m willing to bet finding loaded ammo in any gun store is going to be extremely difficult. If you don’t reload, anyone with a set of .357mag dies can load ammo for you…..cheaply. Give them a hundred empty cases and you’re probably set for hunting ammo for several years. It’s NO harder to load than .357mag ammo is. I’ll bet I can find more empty .357max cases than I can Buckhammer cases. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the .360 Buckhammer round, I’m just saying there won’t be a glut of ammo anywhere. It’s going to be like looking for 5mm rimfire ammo. It’s out there, but no one can find any of it.

Everything you stated is correct. The reality, at least in my area, is that Joe Deer Camp does not reload. If they did the .350L would not have succeeded...same for the .450BM. That alone "proves" the .357 Max is not something JDC will gravitate to. If the .357 Max was kicked to the curb when it was first needed, it will not succeed now that there are commercial options the gun rags are touting.

I do not know anyone in my area who hunts with a single shot. JDC is not likely to buy a single shot deer rifle and have it reamed out...even if he knew he could it. I doubt 1% of the 700,000 deer hunters in MI would have a clue about it.

I am repeating myself, but we keep thinking like reloaders. We are of almost no interest to ammunition companies. And companies building guns need guns the proletariat will buy.

The .357 Max is a "dead duck". JDC cannot buy either a gun or ammunition for it.

The .360 BH will likely be another "dead duck" once the hype dies down. It will join the ranks of the WSM's, WSSM's, etc etc. But in the meantime, the gun rags will ensure manufacturers will sell guns and ammunition. And that is what the firearms industry is all about.

[Jedman]

Everything you stated is correct. The reality, at least in my area, is that Joe Deer Camp does not reload. If they did the .350L would not have succeeded...same for the .450BM. That alone "proves" the .357 Max is not something JDC will gravitate to. If the .357 Max was kicked to the curb when it was first needed, it will not succeed now that there are commercial options the gun rags are touting.

I do not know anyone in my area who hunts with a single shot. JDC is not likely to buy a single shot deer rifle and have it reamed out...even if he knew he could it. I doubt 1% of the 700,000 deer hunters in MI would have a clue about it.

I am repeating myself, but we keep thinking like reloaders. We are of almost no interest to ammunition companies. And companies building guns need guns the proletariat will buy.

The .357 Max is a "dead duck". JDC cannot buy either a gun or ammunition for it.

The .360 BH will likely be another "dead duck" once the hype dies down. It will join the ranks of the WSM's, WSSM's, etc etc. But in the meantime, the gun rags will ensure manufacturers will sell guns and ammunition. And that is what the firearms industry is all about.

I am one of those 1% of hunters. I use mostly single shots a lot of them are antiques from the 1800’s and I reload every cartridge I use other than the small 17 and 22 rimfires. To me the quality time I spend hunting is worth what I go through to have a gun in my hands that has some history or meaning.
I wount say I don’t own any modern rifles with plastic stocks but they are almost always the last ones to be chosen. I maybe have another 10 hunting years left in me and the newest factory offerings don’t interest me .

Jedman

[Daekar]

I would be curious to know if this cartridge will work with carbide dies. I presume it headspaces on the rim?

[selmerfan]

I am one of those 1% of hunters. I use mostly single shots a lot of them are antiques from the 1800’s and I reload every cartridge I use other than the small 17 and 22 rimfires. To me the quality time I spend hunting is worth what I go through to have a gun in my hands that has some history or meaning.
I wount say I don’t own any modern rifles with plastic stocks but they are almost always the last ones to be chosen. I maybe have another 10 hunting years left in me and the newest factory offerings don’t interest me .

Jedman

Same here. I got into the single shot game in 2002 when I moved to Iowa from South Dakota and the geniuses setting regs here didn't (don't) permit the use of rifles for deer hunting. But I could use a handgun as long as the barrel was more than 4" and fired one of the DNR "approved" straight-walled cartridge chamberings and we all know that a single shot handgun is far more precise than a shotgun shooting slugs at any distance. I started with and Encore with a .454 Casull barrel, then moved to the .357 Max a few years later. Then I moved to MN in the shotgun only zone, but I could use a handgun there also. Bought an 18" MGM .260 Remington barrel that is ridiculously precise. Moved back to Iowa in 2015 and dusted off the .357 Max MGM barrel. 190 gr Ranch Dog bullets at 2000 fps are nothing to sneeze at. We started using 180 gr. Speer FNSP a few years ago at 2150 fps. My daughter claimed the Encore last year as "my gun now - go buy yourself a different pistol". Last year the Iowa regs changed to permit bottlenecked cartridges in rifles as long as the projectile is .355" - .500" and generates 500 ft/lbs at the muzzle. So I found a .350 Rem Mag centergrip XP-100 for my new deer pistol. Because pistols are permitted during the late muzzleloader season (yeah, weird), we hunt that season because it's the longest one and fits with our schedule the best. I haven't killed a deer with anything except a single shot since 2011 when we stopped hunting mule deer in the West River country of South Dakota. I killed several mulies with that .260 Remington barrel as well. Single shots are where it's at for me with deer hunting in Iowa now. And I don't expect that the change anytime soon. I have the TC Encore with several barrels, the XP-100 in .350 Rem Mag (no, it's not as horrendous as you may be imagining), and my favorite squirrel and rabbit rifle is the Stevens 404 on a 44 1/2 frame that I inherited from my great-grandfather, who purchased it new.

[BigboreShooter]

If the bullet manufactures respond. It may give more bullet options for my Contender 10” 357Max.
BigBoreShooter

[NSB]

If the bullet manufactures respond. It may give more bullet options for my Contender 10” 357Max.
BigBoreShooter

You can use any .357/.358” bullet in your .357max. I use several different handgun bullets and several different rifle bullets in all my .357max guns. FWIW, I’ve never felt handicapped using any of my single shot rifles. I can’t recall a time where I didn’t get a deer because my gun only held one cartridge, and I’ve shot a lot of deer in my 61 years of deer hunting.

[BigboreShooter]

What I meant. Is the the bullet manufacturers will bring out rifle bullets that will expand at lower velocities achievable from 10” 357Max.
BigBoreShooter

[tctender]

The companys want to bring something out new to try to appeal to some. All are not accepted by some and it gives a choice without having the same thing. I have the 357 max in contender pistol along with 35 rem along with several other calibers. The 360 uses a 30-30 case which is usually easy to find. The 357 max brass is easier to find since starline makes them. The 350 legend is easy to find factory loads for and can be loaded with heavier 9mm bullets for cheaper loads. Been thinking about a barrel or a cva pistol for this reason. I shoot mostly my contender or cva pistols mostly hunting now for several years.I have rifles also if i want them.Just good to have different options if you want to use something different. Hoping components hurry up and get back in stock. Wish some prices would reduce but not happening soon i'm afraid.

[selmerfan]

What I meant. Is the the bullet manufacturers will bring out rifle bullets that will expand at lower velocities achievable from 10” 357Max.
BigBoreShooter

Why not just load it up with a WFNGC in the 190-200 gr. range? That's what I started out using in my .357 Max with 16.5" barrel and it works dandy. No expansion needed. Just drills a nice hole through the vitals and the blood runs out. Have you tried the Speer 180 gr. FNSP? That's also been a great bullet in my Max.

[BigboreShooter]

I have the 180 Fn- Gc by NOE. Have had little better accuracy with 180xtp.I been keeping an eye out for the 180 Speer FN.No luck in finding any. Again, mote options is always better!
BigBoreShooter

[NSB]

Both the Speer 180g FNSP and the Hornady 180g XTP JHP are deadly on deer out to as far as you can hit them with the 357max. I have used both out to 190 yards (actual measurement) and they performed flawlessly. I’ve shot a lot of deer with the 180g Hornady XTP bullets in both handguns and rifles with great results (probably in excess of eighty with the XTP’s and a dozen or so with the Speer 180’s). I have never lost a deer with either. I did lose one deer once using a 158g XTP that was driven to around 2,400 fps. I found that on paper those bullets came apart between the muzzle and the target. Simply too fast for that “lighter” bullet. About 25% simply came apart before hitting the target. The 180g have never been a problem.

[rockrat]

Local (kind of) pawn/gun shop has 3 or 4 boxes of the 180gr speer fp bullets. Think they are $36/box. Already have some and a 190 RD and a 200gr LBT, so i'm good to go with either my 357 max or 35 Rem (or 356 Win for that fact)

[selmerfan]

I used the Speer 180 gr. FNSP out of my .350 Rem Mag XP-100 this year on a big Iowa whitetail doe at 189 yds. 2400 fps at the muzzle. Perfect performance. Daughter used it out of the .357 Max on a nice Iowa buck the next day on a 75 yard shot. 2000 fps at the muzzle. Perfect performance. It's a great bullet for deer.

[cwlongshot]

A friend is @ Shot Show this week.

https://youtu.be/Ofb8_LuqqkE

[rickt300]

If I were looking for a rimmed 35 caliber cartridge to run cast through this one would work just fine.

[Uncle Grinch]

Since this 360 BH is more or less a straight wall shortened 30-30, is the length the only difference between it and the 35-30-30 wildcat?

[cwlongshot]

The 35-30 is a bottle neck & a longer case. Otherwise yes.

CW

https://youtu.be/2JwYWd9HMmw

[shaman]

I'm in a situation that might benefit from the Buckhammer. I grew up a Buckeye, and hunted for several years under the shotgun-only rules. Once I got access to land in Kentucky, I crossed the bridge and haven't gone back in over 20 years.

I have a 200 acre farm in SW Bracken County, about 10 miles from the Ohio River. It would be nice to hunt Ohio. When the new PCR rules came out, I started working on a suitable rifle. I'll be honest, once a guy like me takes a 30-06 and pole-axes a 275 lb buck across a pasture, there really is no going home. I tried 30-30, 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum. None of these gave me the warm fuzzies, but I've kept trying. I currently have a ratbag Marlin 336 in the back of the safe that I'm pondering sending off to JES for a rebore. I'd originally thought 38-55, but 360 Buckhammer looks even better, at least to my taste.

Back about decade ago, I took on a project to make all my 35-somethings capable of shooting cast lead. That list included 357 Mag pistols and rifles, and a Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen. With the way things were looking at the time, it looked like a prudent step. You probably know this: the selection of .358 bullets and 358 molds is much better than .375. Half the time, I can't find a deer-ready jacketed .375 bullet in stock. The 360 Buckhammer would just fit right in. I've got all the fixings already.

Now that I'm retired, I'll have the time now to run deer camp in Kentucky, close up shop and trot over to Ohio for a week. At the very least, I'd like to be able to spend a day or two in KY's season kicking it up old school with an Ohio-ready gun. However, I'm not as thrilled with that idea when I look at my 12 GA bone crushers on the wall and remember what a 3 inch slug load feels like.

[Jedman]

I am a former OH native also, now just 21 miles north in SE MI. Where I live now does have the 1.8” strait walled restrictions. I think the 360 BH will be a good seller for a while but many have recently bought 450 BM and 350 legend rifles and with the Buck Hammer advertising that you can get near 2400 fps with a 180 gr. Spire point bullet that should shoot slightly flatter.
Ohio allows any length strait walled cartridge as long as it is .357 or larger but as you go larger in bore diameter you get more recoil so even a 45-120 is legal you don’t gain a lot in trajectory.
A friend of mine experimented with a H&R Buffalo express reamed to 45-120 using sabots and 40 cal bullets and they just weren’t worth the bother.

Jedman

[shaman]

I just had a bum realization: a 30-30 can't be rebored to 360 BuckHammer. Drat.

[cwlongshot]

I just had a bum realization: a 30-30 can't be rebored to 360 BuckHammer. Drat.

I have read this twice now. I havent seen an official drawing if the 360. Where lies the issue cause it sure looks as it would..

CW

[shaman]

Try this:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/360-buckhammer/

[barnetmill]

Will the older 336 actions withstand the pressure of the new 360 buckhammer?

[shaman]

Will the older 336 actions withstand the pressure of the new 360 buckhammer?

Good question. I'd say yes. The 336 will take a 307 WIN and a 356 WIN. This is considerably less, but I'm no expert. I'll wait six months and see if JES has the ways and means for doing it. By then the hoopla will have died down and we'll have a better idea.

[barnetmill]

Good question. I'd say yes. The 336 will take a 307 WIN and a 356 WIN. This is considerably less, but I'm no expert. I'll wait six months and see if JES has the ways and means for doing it. By then the hoopla will have died down and we'll have a better idea.

I was wondering the heaviest published loads for my marlin 35 with 200 jacketed bullet is about 2200 fps. This is with a bottle neck case and yet this 360 with a mostly straight case goes 2400 fps. I wonder why I can not find published loads at a higher velocity for the .35 remington. I have some pointed flex tip bullets for it.

[GrizzLeeBear]

I was wondering the heaviest published loads for my marlin 35 with 200 jacketed bullet is about 2200 fps. This is with a bottle neck case and yet this 360 with a mostly straight case goes 2400 fps. I wonder why I can not find published loads at a higher velocity for the .35 remington. I have some pointed flex tip bullets for it.

The 35 Remington max. pressure is 33,500 psi due to the autoloading rifles it was introduced in. It looks like they are running the 360 at around 50,000 psi.

Also, it looks like velocity of 2,400 fps is with the 180 gr bullet. 200 gr. bullet it 2,200 fps. which duplicates 35 Rem. load.

[barnetmill]

The 35 Remington max. pressure is 33,500 psi due to the autoloading rifles it was introduced in. It looks like they are running the 360 at around 50,000 psi.

Also, it looks like velocity of 2,400 fps is with the 180 gr bullet. 200 gr. bullet it 2,200 fps. which duplicates 35 Rem. load.

Still I wonder what pressure the JM marlin 336 rifles from the 60's will take? I assume that they were stronger than the remington rifles of the pre-WWII era. There was an autoloading model remington and there was spiral tubular magazine pump rifle 14/141 I think.

[Nobade]

After looking at the cartridge drawing I think the engineers made a mistake. They have it as a straight taper from the base to the mouth with no parallel section to hold the bullet. That is going to allow the bullet to be seated crooked with no way to maintain consistency which will allow it to go down the bore slightly tipped and ruin any fine accuracy, especially when combined with a steep 12 degree/side throat with no parallel section and a 1:12 twist rate. This cartridge could have been a top choice for cast bullet shooters but I suspect it is going to be one of those "finicky" rounds once people start working with it.

[cwlongshot]

A 360 BH talk with Remington with Target Suite.

https://youtu.be/3sA5htOvczs

[NSB]

A 360 BH talk with Remington with Target Suite.

https://youtu.be/3sA5htOvczs
Brought to you by the same company that introduced the 5mm rimfire round. I know several people who own Rem rifles and only rarely find some Mexican made ammo for those guns. If you buy one, learn to reload if you don’t reload now.

[cwlongshot]

https://youtu.be/JmEVJrB5Uco

[cwlongshot]

Brought to you by the same company that introduced the 5mm rimfire round. I know several people who own Rem rifles and only rarely find some Mexican made ammo for those guns. If you buy one, learn to reload if you don’t reload now.

Well, they also brought out seven Mile Remington magnum, a 35 Remington, and countless others that have stood the test of time. Everybody has stinkers everybody has lemons. Everybody has bad days.

[NSB]

Well, they also brought out seven Mile Remington magnum, a 35 Remington, and countless others that have stood the test of time. Everybody has stinkers everybody has lemons. Everybody has bad days.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to call your baby ugly. I was just sharing my opinion….this is going to be one of those “johnny come lately” cartridges lagging behind the 350 Legend, and getting ammo is going to be hit or miss. I can’t help but think what Remington did with the 5mm rimfire. There’s a reason why it failed…along with Remington itself not doing very well at this time.

[Beerd]

After looking at the cartridge drawing I think the engineers made a mistake. They have it as a straight taper from the base to the mouth with no parallel section to hold the bullet. That is going to allow the bullet to be seated crooked with no way to maintain consistency which will allow it to go down the bore slightly tipped and ruin any fine accuracy, especially when combined with a steep 12 degree/side throat with no parallel section and a 1:12 twist rate. This cartridge could have been a top choice for cast bullet shooters but I suspect it is going to be one of those "finicky" rounds once people start working with it.

you noticed that too.

309655

..

[beechbum444]

50,000 psi….. will a 336 action handle that pressure ???

[cwlongshot]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to call your baby ugly. I was just sharing my opinion….this is going to be one of those “johnny come lately” cartridges lagging behind the 350 Legend, and getting ammo is going to be hit or miss. I can’t help but think what Remington did with the 5mm rimfire. There’s a reason why it failed…along with Remington itself not doing very well at this time.

I like it, its not my baby, but I like all 35's. ;)

You aint wrong, The previous "Remington" did have a crappy reputation supporting new offerings. I remember NOTHING about the 260 and just a flash about the 7/08!! But remember this is not "that" Remington. Time will tell if they follow the same Path. That page has not been written yet.

CW

[cwlongshot]

you noticed that too.

309655

..

Good catch, its a real concern.

[P Flados]

After looking at the cartridge drawing I think the engineers made a mistake. They have it as a straight taper from the base to the mouth with no parallel section to hold the bullet. That is going to allow the bullet to be seated crooked with no way to maintain consistency which will allow it to go down the bore slightly tipped and ruin any fine accuracy, especially when combined with a steep 12 degree/side throat with no parallel section and a 1:12 twist rate. This cartridge could have been a top choice for cast bullet shooters but I suspect it is going to be one of those "finicky" rounds once people start working with it.

I doubt that this is really a problem. The round has a very slight taper. As long as the brass is first sized small enough, and then expanded using a plug (~0.356"), the ID of the brass at the front of the round will be adequately consistent to hold a bullet straight.

Also note that the wall thickness of most cases is thinnest at the mouth and thicker as you get farther back. They may have "engineered" this taper in wall thickness to get a more consistent ID than you would expect at first glance.

When I look at photos of loaded ammo, many seem to have that slight bulge at the base of the bullet. This indicates the bullet is being gripped by the brass along the full length that is inside the case.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Also, keep in mind that does not appear to be the SAAMI drawing (which would also include a chamber drawing). It may be an early "concept" drawing and just shows the taper continuing to the case mouth.

I looked at the SAMMI site and there doesn't appear to be a drawing for the 360 yet.

[45_Colt]

After looking at the cartridge drawing I think the engineers made a mistake. They have it as a straight taper from the base to the mouth with no parallel section to hold the bullet. That is going to allow the bullet to be seated crooked with no way to maintain consistency which will allow it to go down the bore slightly tipped and ruin any fine accuracy, especially when combined with a steep 12 degree/side throat with no parallel section and a 1:12 twist rate. This cartridge could have been a top choice for cast bullet shooters but I suspect it is going to be one of those "finicky" rounds once people start working with it.

The interior of the case is tapered. This is not an issue.

45_Colt

[Texas by God]

So- it’s oval shaped inside?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beerd]

Also, keep in mind that does not appear to be the SAAMI drawing (which would also include a chamber drawing). It may be an early "concept" drawing and just shows the taper continuing to the case mouth.

I looked at the SAMMI site and there doesn't appear to be a drawing for the 360 yet.

correct, the drawing in my previous post #54 was from the one in Outdoor Life.
..

[Good Cheer]

Might make a nice black powder target round as well.

[Tripplebeards]

To me it’s just a straight wall 35 Rem. I’ll stick with my 35 Rems. Hopefully this gets manufactures to make a few more .358/.360 options.

[NSB]

To me it’s just a straight wall 35 Rem. I’ll stick with my 35 Rems. Hopefully this gets manufactures to make a few more .358/.360 options.
Pretty much it in a nutshell.

[barnetmill]

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

It is a straight wall 35 remington that is legal under specialized hunt circumstance where .35 remington is not.

[cwlongshot]

It is a straight wall 35 remington that is legal under specialized hunt circumstance where .35 remington is not.

100% and THATS THE DIFFERENCE!!

[Tripplebeards]

Yep if I was in one of those states I’d be excited about it…but I’m not. I use to hunt iowa and they went from shotgun only to straight wall…and then adding various bottle neck cartridges along the way every year. Don’t know why they even have stipulations any more. It probably would be fun in an AR configuration even though I’m not an AR guy. I have a few but never shoot them. Hopefully manufactures will start getting up there butt and start putting out more jacketed offerings in .358 because of this. It’s always impossible to find a .358 bullet on the shelf somewhere. Maybe at least they’ll be some light at the end of the tunnel for 35 Cal shooters for bulk projectiles because of this.

[rickt300]

Heck if brass becomes easy to get it will shade the 35 Remington!

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not sure what to make of this cartridge. It is meaningless to me, but I don't live in a state that this is intended for. I'm sure a lot of people are going to look at this and see a 357 maximum. Unlike some, I never was fond of the max. Except for certain guns and a careful reloader, the max really didn't offer all that much over a 357 magnum, not enough to really wow anyone. I think that's one thing this 360 buckhammer has going for it is that it is considerably larger than the 357 magnum, as well as coming with a good pressure increase. I'm surprised they didn't go even farther like 60,000 psi. Even still, the numbers they claim are quite impressive. A 180gr at 2350 fps, that will really flatten out the trajectory to the practical limits of most lever guns. A 357 mag you are only looking at 1700-1800 fps most of the time for a 180gr. A 357 max gets you closer to 2000 fps, but you would have to really hot load it to get anywhere near what this 360 BH does.

I see two main things going against this cartridge. #1 it is tapered, and while legal in the "straight wall" states, I don't think it would be safe to use with 357 mag or 38 special ammo. It will be interesting to see how that turns out, as it appears a 357 magnum will fit right in the chamber, but it would not have much support at the head at all. #2 Is it is going to be purely a lever action caliber. Maybe some single shots will take it up.

I just don't see it competing well at all with 350 legend. There's no reason the 350 L can't be used in a lot of lever actions such as the Henry long ranger. The 350L is already in some single shots. In a bolt action, the 350L is a no brainer. I'm not sure anyone is making centerfire pump actions anymore, but again, the 350L is the one there. It really comes down to finding out if people want something more universal, or are willing to buy a certain lever action just to gain a couple hundred fps. I really don't know. American deer hunters love both AR's and lever actions, but I just don't see both cartridges existing side by side for long.

[cwlongshot]

I think you're missing the point in a couple of areas.
No, NO, absolutely not, you cannot shoot 38 special or 357 magnum in this caliber.! You cannot shoot it in a 350 legend, either, so why would you think you could do it in here?
It's limited and it's pressure for the guns it's designed to be fired in. So 94 Winchester's 336 Marlins Henry big boys these all operate under 50,000 psi. It's designed around a set a parameter set up for straight wall states. Everybody seems to look at it as the same thing that's offered another calibers… Absolutely yes, correct! But it's a big but those calibers and cartridges do not meet the requirements for straight wall states.
We really only have two calibers have been released and designed for straight wall states. Now 100% yes there is a number of them existing very good calibers that also fill the requirements of the straight wall states. But there's a whole bunch that come close, but do not qualify in some of the street wall states. That being but not limited to; 375 Winchester 444 marlin 45/70 government, 38/55 Winchester. Their casings are too long for some of these states. (Some states ONLY allow Factory chambering as well) Yes, ballistics are, very similar to existing calibers. People in "straight wall" states, do not have the option of them. That's it, that's the whole deal.

I dont understand why some feel new is bad? Deleting or discontinuing ol favorites IS BAD to me. But new is new, its improvements refinements & maybe new favorites.

The Maxi was or offered substantially more power over the 357 Mag!!! Factory numbers had it nearly 500 fps faster same bullet!!! The Maxi is BEHIND the 9x45 (Some call a Legend) The Legend is behind this new 360 cartritage.

Personally the "legend" left me lacking. This nonsence of a 9mm then changing the case to tapered. ( I understand stayed reasons) but the bullet nearly (AND SHOULD HAVE) blown up in there faces! .357 is CLEARLY listed as MINIMUM diameter. They slipped past by hairs on SAMMI + - .002 tolerance to gain acceptance. BS!!! Any one can measure a bullet its .354/.355 NEVER seen larger. larger in a factory round.

Yes America loves the AR-15. But #1 not everyone is allowed to hunt one & 2, lever actions are Right there with Apple Pie & Baseball for Americans! So plenty of room for both!

I agree, I am surprised the LongRanger has not been chambered for the 9x45 as well.

CW

[NSB]

Too bad most of you haven’t really tried to learn anything about the .357max. Lots of “knowledge” about it, but none of it based on facts. I’ve owned many, many .357mag handguns and rifles over the years. At least four of them custom builds in revolvers and semi autos. The .357mag is a very good cartridge in both handguns and rifles. To date I’ve owned six different .357max rifles. I also own a chronograph and I have pages of data collected on different loads tried in all of these guns. The .357max was designed to be shot out of a revolver for IHMSA silhouette shooting. It was never loaded anywhere near its full potential in a revolver, but in a rifle it’s a whole different breed of animal. You can easily and safely get a 180g bullet up to 2,000 fps in a rifle like a TC Encore and with some load development you can get true five shot 1moa accuracy. The drawback is that no one builds a lever gun for this round and the same loads you can safely shoot in a single shot rifle probably aren’t safe in a converted lever gun. I’ve shot a lot of deer with the Max, and some were at or beyond 200 yards. I haven’t shot any further simply because where I hunt there’s no place to shoot further than that. Ringing a 10” AR500 gong at 300 yards is monotonously boring. I’m not saying that the .357max is better or worse than the Buckhammer or the Legend, but components are much easier to get if you reload. I’m not expecting to see a glut of loaded ammo available for either of the two new “upstarts” now or in the future. It’s hard enough to get common things right now.

[popper]

LongRanger in 9x45? Needs a much bigger/heavier barrel and changed action. It's based 308 action. Besides, they went with the 'other' round.

[rockrat]

Been enjoying the 357 max. for about 35 years or so, from a DW , NEF and two Rugers, revolver and #1. I have pushed the #1 to 2500fps with a 158gr boolit. They should have lengthened the Max. and made a rimless Super Max. at 1.8" long.

[cwlongshot]

Same here. Bought my first as a 10" contender in about 1987. Then a H&R then another and another and Savage last. Re chambered a couple 357 Chambers to Maxi.

I have killed countless deer in half a dozen states and hogs with them. LOVE the caliber with 1680 & a 180 SSP @ 2050/2075 ish. Most kills have been bang flops never lost a deer. Speer 180's and Hornady 158 SP and later the 180 XTP and 158 XTP-FP bullets too!

Today I only have three. A 'tender a orig H&R and a Savage 24v.

[cwlongshot]

https://youtu.be/jkUy2bo4l3I

[cwlongshot]

Manson Reamers had Three reamers yesterday!!

Mike Bellum grabbed one.

CW

[Beerd]

just saw this:
https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/new-additions-nopix-/22111-360-buckhammer-saami-chamber-reamer.html
..

[justindad]

I read somewhere yesterday that the 350L cannot be used in all straight case states (Ohio, I think), because the nominal bullet diameter in .355 and not .357. That is one reason for 360BM.

[megasupermagnum]

I just checked Ohio's regulations. Under legal cartridge dimensions, it says in parentheses (Includes 350 legend). Also, if you look at the SAAMI cartridge dimension specs for 350 legend, you will find that it specs .357" bullet with a -.003" tolerance. It can be used in all straight wall cartridge states as of now.

[cwlongshot]

I read somewhere yesterday that the 350L cannot be used in all straight case states (Ohio, I think), because the nominal bullet diameter in .355 and not .357. That is one reason for 360BM.

They 100% SHOULD HAVE BEEN restricted by that!!!! But as mentioned SAMMI has a +- .002/003 dimensional allowance. (For DRAWING NOT FOREARM!)

Part of what urked me few tears back. Winchesters pompousness... going 9mm over a "real 35".

[BABore]

Michigan says 35 caliber minimum. 1.18(?) Minimum, 1.80 maximum length. Straight walled, but doesn't say parallel walled.
Both .354 and .358 are 35 caliber.

[cwlongshot]

Michigan says 35 caliber minimum. 1.18(?) Minimum, 1.80 maximum length. Straight walled, but doesn't say parallel walled.
Both .354 and .358 are 35 caliber.

Yes, this is true.

But when released there was ZERO NONE NADA 9mm RIFLE BULLETS.

ZERO reason for this. Re creating the wheel needlessly. But for market share. As a caster it didnt matter and its only way I justified caliber at its start. Today years later we have a few bullets offered. But we already had many fine proven 358 dia bullets.

CW

[megasupermagnum]

While I agree a companies choice to use .355" bullets in their factory loads is questionable, the 350 Legend can use larger bullets. There is nothing stopping you from loading .358" bullets in 350 legend.

[Shawlerbrook]

Article in the May/June Rifleshooter magazine comparing the 360 Buckhammer and 350 Legend.

[cwlongshot]

While I agree a companies choice to use .355" bullets in their factory loads is questionable, the 350 Legend can use larger bullets. There is nothing stopping you from loading .358" bullets in 350 legend.

Not true. Neither of mine will even chamber a 357 diameter bullet!!

CW

[megasupermagnum]

Not true. Neither of mine will even chamber a 357 diameter bullet!!

CW

Then yours have a real problem, they are not in SAAMI specs.

[P Flados]

MSM, not being able to use 0.357" jacketed or 0.358" cast on a 350L is "normal" with current production guns and typical brass.

The bore diameter is not the problem.

The problem is the chamber neck dimension in combination with normal brass wall thickness.

[megasupermagnum]

MSM, not being able to use 0.357" jacketed or 0.358" cast on a 350L is "normal" with current production guns and typical brass.

The bore diameter is not the problem.

The problem is the chamber neck dimension in combination with normal brass wall thickness.

Which is out of spec. SAAMI states, the 350 Legend cartridge can take a .357" bullet -.003" tolerance. For the chamber they spec about .380" with a +.002" tolerance where the bullet sits. They spec .357" +.002" tolerance for the throat.

This is going to be even more of a problem with all of the factory loads out there with .357" bullets. Normal or not, if you can't chamber a .357" bullet, your gun is not made to SAAMI specs for 350 Legend, which admittedly are voluntary.

[megasupermagnum]

https://winchester.com/Blog/2019/09/Winchesters-New-350-Legend-Ammo

[Jedman]

The cartridge drawing from Winchester doesn’t show critical chamber specs. I went on the actual SAMMI website and the chamber drawing for the 350 Legend shows the throat dimension to be .357” no plus or minus and you would have trouble chambering a bullet that is .357 with any of the full diameter shank above the case mouth.
To me that is too tight if they are actually reamed that size.
Jedman

[megasupermagnum]

All unstated tolerances are +.002". It says that on the side. The 350 Legend was made from day 1 to shoot .357" bullets. If yours can't, that's 100% the fault of the firearms manufacturer.

[cwlongshot]

All unstated tolerances are +.002". It says that on the side. The 350 Legend was made from day 1 to shoot .357" bullets. If yours can't, that's 100% the fault of the firearms manufacturer.


Out of three different manufacture barrels all of them won't chamber a 357 diameter jacketed bullet… Faxon, Ruger & BCA barrels. Yeah, no it's not the manufacture.

Horse, Pucky! And you know it!
Go shoot a .311 JACKETED bullet in your 308 or 30/06, and when they don't fit, I'll tell YOU, it's a problem with your gun, or its manufacturer.
Its simply not true. The 350 Legend cartridge is designed for .355 bullet PERIOD!

This thread is about the 360, not the 9x45.

I have a good friend who has a reamer & RCBS dies in bound. I beleive he is stubbing a H&R.

[megasupermagnum]

SAAMI spec for 308 and 30/06 are both .309" - .003" bullets. .310"+.002" throats. I'm not sure where to get .311" jacketed bullets, but there are a ton of .310" 123gr bullets that work just fine in them. It used to be done a lot more when 7.62x39 pulldown bullets were ridiculously cheap. I don't know what else to tell you. You can see the SAMMI specs yourself. If they are followed, 350 Legend will chamber a minimum of a .357" bullet. Winchester is loading .357" bullets, clearly they intend them to be used. I just dont see this as a real justification on 360 BH based on bullet size alone.

[P Flados]

The 350L factory ammo is being made "to the spec" in a creative fashion. They are using the tolerance and the bullets are pretty much all right at 0.355". The 350L specific bullets available on the market are all the same, 0.355".

The spec does not control brass wall thickness. The facts are that current ammo & brass is being produced with a thickness that prevents using 0.357" bullets in the vast majority of all 350 Legend guns out there.

No one is making factory ammo for the 350L with actual 0.357" bullets and brass that is thin enough to meet specs on cartridge OD in the neck region.

An individual can use neck turning or reaming to reduce neck wall thickness. This would allow using 0.357" bullets.

[BABore]

You can also resize a .358 jacketed bullet through a Lee sizing die for use in the Legend.

[Wayne Smith]

Just got an email from Mike Bellum - he is chambering Encore barrels for it now. And he is a big pusher of the 357 Max as well.

[murf205]

After looking at the Sammi drawing, I can see where the lack of a straight section in the neck area would be "iffy" if it was chambered in a Magnum Research revolver like I have contemplated. Not enough friction area to help the crimp get a good bite in the boolit. Could necessitate a very heavy crimp to keep the boolit from walking out of the case. In a single shot, it might be just ducky but in a lever gun???

[GrizzLeeBear]

.... I can see where the lack of a straight section in the neck area would be "iffy" if it was chambered in a Magnum Research revolver like I have contemplated.....

Ask and you shall recieve.

https://freerangeamerican.us/360-buckhammer-revolver/

[Hickok]

Henry, Marlin/Ruger, Rossi, etc can't keep up with demands now, and prices are high.

I like the idea of the .360 BH, and the cartridge really has good ballistics. I understand why it was made, to meet certain laws and regulations. I also know that "new and improved" is the way of marketing.

In reality, the .44 Magnum will put just about anything that walks in North America on the ground with a proper bullet out to 100 yards. In a rifle, it fits all the regulations and laws. And ammo is easier to find for those who don't reload.

And your revolver and rifle use the same cartridge!:D

[Grayone]

You can use any .357/.358” bullet in your .357max. I use several different handgun bullets and several different rifle bullets in all my .357max guns. FWIW, I’ve never felt handicapped using any of my single shot rifles. I can’t recall a time where I didn’t get a deer because my gun only held one cartridge, and I’ve shot a lot of deer in my 61 years of deer hunting.

I am 71 and still deer hunt with a single shot most times. The times I take a MSR is coyotes and hogs where multiples shots are possible. I too use a 357 Max and it leaves nothing wanted 200 yds and in. I can shoot 38, 357, 360 DW, and 357 Max from the same gun. I reload and can make it do what I want from small game to medium large. I see the latest crop of cartridges aim at selling more rifles and ammo to the aforementioned JDC.

[Jungle Dave]

Thinking about building a .357 Max in a single if I could find the right barrels, but I'm not buying the marketing hype of these, not even a "legend", or the so-called "hammers", with bullets that don't even co-mingle with other cartridges or barrels. It's as if they are doing all of this on purpose for malevolent reasons.

[Aynew1]

I have a Henry single shot 357 mag that was re-chambered to 357 max. Never got to the point that I was satisfied with the accuracy so I just had the same guy re do it in 360 Buckhammer and was shooting 1" groups right right out of the box. Don't have a chronometer so I don't have a velocity on it and I haven't shot further than 100 yards. That's my next project is to stretch it out and see how it does. I live in Iowa and we don't have the straight wall or length rules, just has to be over .35 caliber. 35 whelen seems like gross overkill to me and my old bones are getting recoil averse so I think the Buckhammer is a pretty good compromise until the rule makers come to their senses and let us use reasonable deer rifles.
By the way, the guy that does the re-cambering is Mike Bellm. You can find him at https://357maximum.net/.

[AnthonyB]

I am slow and have just learned about this new cartridge. I have a lot of 30-30 brass that would be much better used launching something larger. I’ll buy one if I see it.
Tony

[faraim]

Whenever I first read about this cartridge I thought that someone re-invented the 35/30-30. But now what enters my mind is, "It'd be fun to play with cast boolits in that cartridge." I've been thinking about having a 35/30-30 built up for that very reason. Maybe a case that I could buy across the counter would be better.

[dverna]

Whenever I first read about this cartridge I thought that someone re-invented the 35/30-30. But now what enters my mind is, "It'd be fun to play with cast boolits in that cartridge." I've been thinking about having a 35/30-30 built up for that very reason. Maybe a case that I could buy across the counter would be better.

Also look at the cost of dies. I nearly had a M94.30/30 converted to .35/30 but realized $300 and then about $150 for the dies, IIRC., did not make a lot of sense for my needs. Lots of love for the .35/30 on this site but IMO the .360 is a better choice.

[TD1886]

Okay I got in this late so I'm not going to read through all of it. The Rifleman just had a article on it about everything from it's beginning to shooting it. It isn't anything but a 35-30 except not bottlenecked. They said the take the 30-30 case off the forming line before it's bottle necked and trim its lenght and form it to 35 caliber. Why the hell doesn't Remington just start pounding out the 35 Remington cartridge and maybe make a new rifle for it? Think of how ironic this cartridge is. Remington conceived it on a Winchester designed case! I'm laughing. I'll take a long shot and say "I bet Winchester won't chamber it for it's leveractions". For those states that have case length and caliber requirements for deer hunting, out of the 350 Legend, 400 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, and the 450 Bushmaster THE BEST IN MY OPINION IS THE 450 BUSHMASTER!!! That cartridge is a beast!

[dverna]

Okay I got in this late so I'm not going to read through all of it. The Rifleman just had a article on it about everything from it's beginning to shooting it. It isn't anything but a 35-30 except not bottlenecked. They said the take the 30-30 case off the forming line before it's bottle necked and trim its lenght and form it to 35 caliber. Why the hell doesn't Remington just start pounding out the 35 Remington cartridge and maybe make a new rifle for it? Think of how ironic this cartridge is. Remington conceived it on a Winchester designed case! I'm laughing. I'll take a long shot and say "I bet Winchester won't chamber it for it's leveractions". For those states that have case length and caliber requirements for deer hunting, out of the 350 Legend, 400 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, and the 450 Bushmaster THE BEST IN MY OPINION IS THE 450 BUSHMASTER!!! That cartridge is a beast!

Some places require a straight wall case of .35 cal and 1.8 case length. Thus the "need" for something like this.

The .450 BM is not a pleasant round to shoot and less so if a smaller person is shooting it.

[TD1886]

Some places require a straight wall case of .35 cal and 1.8 case length. Thus the "need" for something like this.

The .450 BM is not a pleasant round to shoot and less so if a smaller person is shooting it.

I can agree with you that the 450 BM isn't pleasant to shoot and if it wears a muzzle break it's dangerously loud. I know what you mean about the 35 Remington being a bottleneck and I forgot to mention that, but didn't forget in my mind that some states won't allow such cartridges. If those states would get their heads out of their ***** things would be a lot better for the hunters, and well, lot better all the ways around.

[michael.birdsley]

. Why the hell doesn't Remington just start pounding out the 35 Remington cartridge and maybe make a new rifle for it? Think of how ironic this cartridge is. Remington conceived it on a Winchester designed case! I'm laughing. I'll take a long shot and say "I bet Winchester won't chamber it for it's leveractions". For those states that have case length and caliber requirements for deer hunting, out of the 350 Legend, 400 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, and the 450 Bushmaster THE BEST IN MY OPINION IS THE 450 BUSHMASTER!!! That cartridge is a beast!

because, you can’t use the 35 remington in Michigan’s limited rifle zone aka the old shot gun zone in the southern 1/3 of the state. it’s shoulder cases without shoulders only. I believe 357 is smallest by case length that is legal. that’s why the .350 and .450 are selling up here faster than they can make ‘em.

the .360 will give more choices to the lever guys rather than the .357 and 44 mags that are currently legal


yes i love my RAR .450. it will drop anything the state of michigan can throw at it within 250 yards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TD1886]

because, you can’t use the 35 remington in Michigan’s limited rifle zone aka the old shot gun zone in the southern 1/3 of the state. it’s shoulder cases without shoulders only. I believe 357 is smallest by case length that is legal. that’s why the .350 and .450 are selling up here faster than they can make ‘em


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, I'm very aware of what's going on with the states that have stupid cartridge/firearms requirements for hunting deer.

I believe Illinois just legalized a bunch of cartridges and firearms for deer hunting. Ohio did it long ago.

[Jeff Michel]

I loaned a 450 to one of my contractors,(Ruger American) he asked if there was anything in particular he should know about it. The only thing I could think of was "You might want to hold on" A week after deer season, he told me what an amazing job it did on deer. He also showed me a half inch gash on the bridge of his nose from the scope. He's now the proud owner of a .350 Legend. FWIW, as an Ohioan, the straight case requirement is a non issue. People in bottleneck states shake their heads and say it's stupid, but they never were forced to hunt with a shotgun. I'm just happy I can use a rifle.

[TD1886]

I loaned a 450 to one of my contractors,(Ruger American) he asked if there was anything in particular he should know about it. The only thing I could think of was "You might want to hold on" A week after deer season, he told me what an amazing job it did on deer. He also showed me a half inch gash on the bridge of his nose from the scope. He's now the proud owner of a .350 Legend. FWIW, as an Ohioan, the straight case requirement is a non issue. People in bottleneck states shake their heads and say it's stupid, but they never were forced to hunt with a shotgun. I'm just happy I can use a rifle.

You forgot to tell him one other thing, at least when just sighting it in or plinking, wear a good pair of earmuffs!!!! Maybe even with earplugs with the muffs! I have the same rifle. It's nasty.

[dverna]

You forgot to tell him one other thing, at least when just sighting it in or plinking, wear a good pair of earmuffs!!!! Maybe even with earplugs with the muffs! I have the same rifle. It's nasty.

It is funny that you tout the .450 BM and then admit "it's nasty".

People have lost their senses when it comes to deer rifles. Both the .350 L and .360 BH will get the job done without all the drama of recoil and muzzle blast.

I agree the rules are silly, but for people who live in areas with those rules, it is an expensive decision not to abide by them. I live in northern MI and can use bottleneck cartridges but my buddy lives in southern MI and bought a .450 when they came out. He hates sighting it in.

[TD1886]

It is funny that you tout the .450 BM and then admit "it's nasty".

People have lost their senses when it comes to deer rifles. Both the .350 L and .360 BH will get the job done without all the drama of recoil and muzzle blast.

I agree the rules are silly, but for people who live in areas with those rules, it is an expensive decision not to abide by them. I live in northern MI and can use bottleneck cartridges but my buddy lives in southern MI and bought a .450 when they came out. He hates sighting it in.

I actually didn't know how nasty the 450 BM was, but you have to admit that Ruger Ranch rifle is awfully light and with a short barrel. More then likey the reason they put a honking muzzle break on it. Part of the lure for me is that it's a 45 caliber and I enjoy that caliber and have a lot of cast bullets that work well from it. Mihec has a big old 45 hollow point bullet that is listed for the Ruger Only and it shoots just great from my 450 BM and I don't have to load it as hot as jacketed. That way the rifle is bearable. I have the Legend on a 16 inch barrel AR15 carbine which is quite light and it lets you know you shot something other then a 5.56! It too has a muzzle break on it and it's very loud to. The seems to "shutter" when you shoot it like shock wave is passing through it.

I'll tell you another nasty caliber and that is the 45 Raptor on a short barreled AR. It's worse then the 450 BM for nastyness. Then throw in the 375 Raptor which is a slightly shortened 308 neckes up to 375. Excellent round. I build those for some friends, I don't have them myself.

[dverna]

TD,

People who reload can tame something like the .450, but reloaders comprise a very small share of the market, and not one companies introducing new calibers and rifle care about. Casters are even a more insignificant market.

Joe/Jane deer hunter might shoot 10-15 rounds of hunting ammunition a year and I know people who shoot less than that.

But without the hype, the gun industry would die. There are plenty of fools out there who will drink the Kool-Aid and they know it. I chuckle when a guy who shoots 20 rounds a year thinks he needs a 6.5 Creedmore to replace his .270.

At least this new crop of straight wall cartridges addresses a need caused by silly laws.

[TD1886]

TD,

People who reload can tame something like the .450, but reloaders comprise a very small share of the market, and not one companies introducing new calibers and rifle care about. Casters are even a more insignificant market.

Joe/Jane deer hunter might shoot 10-15 rounds of hunting ammunition a year and I know people who shoot less than that.

But without the hype, the gun industry would die. There are plenty of fools out there who will drink the Kool-Aid and they know it. I chuckle when a guy who shoots 20 rounds a year thinks he needs a 6.5 Creedmore to replace his .270.

At least this new crop of straight wall cartridges addresses a need caused by silly laws.

They've come out with a few good new cartridges and a whole bunch of bad Kool Aid ones.

[michael.birdsley]

It is funny that you tout the .450 BM and then admit "it's nasty".

People have lost their senses when it comes to deer rifles. Both the .350 L and .360 BH will get the job done without all the drama of recoil and muzzle blast.

I agree the rules are silly, but for people who live in areas with those rules, it is an expensive decision not to abide by them. I live in northern MI and can use bottleneck cartridges but my buddy lives in southern MI and bought a .450 when they came out. He hates sighting it in.

i will agree it’s a great deer round but, it’s not a gun you want to sit with at blast away with at the range. bought mine in 2019 and I believe the .350 either had just come out or was about to come out.

I use my .450 in the big woods in ogemaw county on state land and on the farm land around where i live in chesaning. I wouldn’t trade it though for anything still better than shooting a slug/sabot shot gun. the .350 so far hasn’t done anything for me to want to swap out RAR .450. mine has the 22 inch barrel.

what got me intrested was average guys at the range shooting dimes at 100 yards. Ya know typical michigan hunters dust the gun off November 1st for the opener on the 15th. put 3 rounds down range to check zero pack up and leave. use 1-2 more on a deer during the 2-3 week season depending on zone. rinse and repeat next november.

this is embarrassing. I about knocked my self out last year when i was working up hand loads. the scope eye relieve wasn’t set right from the gun shop. i knew but, was in a hurry to get the gun in 2019. it was fine shooting from the bench. i decided to go off hand and got to close to the scope. gun went off and i’ve never been hit so hard in my life in the head. i thought i destroyed the scope with my head. i was standing there dazed and than i felt the blood running down my nose. it left a good 1 inch scar above my eye brow. fixed the eye relief that night.


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[TD1886]

i will agree it’s a great deer round but, it’s not a gun you want to sit with at blast away with at the range. bought mine in 2019 and I believe the .350 either had just come out or was about to come out.

I use my .450 in the big woods in ogemaw county on state land and on the farm land around where i live in chesaning. I wouldn’t trade it though for anything still better than shooting a slug/sabot shot gun. the .350 so far hasn’t done anything for me to want to swap out RAR .450. mine has the 22 inch barrel.

what got me intrested was average guys at the range shooting dimes at 100 yards. Ya know typical michigan hunters dust the gun off November 1st for the opener on the 15th. put 3 rounds down range to check zero pack up and leave. use 1-2 more on a deer during the 2-3 week season depending on zone. rinse and repeat next november.

this is embarrassing. I about knocked my self out last year when i was working up hand loads. the scope eye relieve wasn’t set right from the gun shop. i knew but, was in a hurry to get the gun in 2019. it was fine shooting from the bench. i decided to go off hand and got to close to the scope. gun went off and i’ve never been hit so hard in my life in the head. i thought i destroyed the scope with my head. i was standing there dazed and than i felt the blood running down my nose. it left a good 1 inch scar above my eye brow. fixed the eye relief that night.


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The 450 BM is very accurate. I have Ruger bolt gun, but I sure would like to try the 450 BM in an AR. AR take some of the punch out of cartridges like that.

[Abert Rim]

The .450 was a pussycat in my AR -- and wonderfully accurate. Just traded it for a Husqvarna 146 in 9,3X57 -- much more versatile.

[Jeff Michel]

I've long since retired my Ruger American, I make my son shoot it when he's feeling over manly. My current go to in 450 BM is a Ruger No 1 and a Model 77 Scout. Recoil in both are quite mild even with 300 grain SST's or Speer 300grain deep curls. With the right platform/loads it's recoil isn't as bad as reputation makes it.

[Rapier]

If you have a 357 Mag single shot, just recut the chamber to a 357 Super Mag, (Max) done and done. No fuss no muss, just a .250 extension of the chamber length. Still shoot 357s and use the same dies and bullets.

[gypsyman]

Reinventing the wheel. Knocked over quite a few 50+ rams at 200 meters with both a .357mag and a .357sm. Over 20 years of IHMSA. DW's with a 210gr. LBT and .W296 powder. 10'' BF in production class. If somebody came out with a lever gun in the super mag caliber, pretty sure a 180gr. hp out of a 16-18 inch barrel would do the trick.

[NSB]

Reinventing the wheel. Knocked over quite a few 50+ rams at 200 meters with both a .357mag and a .357sm. Over 20 years of IHMSA. DW's with a 210gr. LBT and .W296 powder. 10'' BF in production class. If somebody came out with a lever gun in the super mag caliber, pretty sure a 180gr. hp out of a 16-18 inch barrel would do the trick.
I have an SSK 16.25” .357max barrel on my Encore frame and shooting 180g Hornady XTP’s I’m getting right around 1875-1900fps (chronographed) using two different powders (1680 and 57440). My five shot groups are averaging 1.3” at 100 yards. I’ve killed a bunch of deer with this load up to 200 yards. It works like a charm.

[gypsyman]

Guess I'm old school!! Had a Marlin 1894 in ..44mag.(Sorry I sold it, but couldn't get my cast to shoot good with that micro groove rifling) Henry's got their Big Boy out, might get one of those if I can scrape up some cash to spare. But always liked the idea of a rifle and handgun shooting the same cartridge.

[TD1886]

The .450 was a pussycat in my AR -- and wonderfully accurate. Just traded it for a Husqvarna 146 in 9,3X57 -- much more versatile.

I have that Husqvarna in 9.3x57 and really like it. Shoots cast very well. I don't know, I feel the 450BM will kill everything the 9.3x57 will. It would be close. I think a round you may like and it works on an AR10 is the 375 Raptor. It has alreay taken a lot of big dangerous game. Look it up.

[TD1886]

Guess I'm old school!! Had a Marlin 1894 in ..44mag.(Sorry I sold it, but couldn't get my cast to shoot good with that micro groove rifling) Henry's got their Big Boy out, might get one of those if I can scrape up some cash to spare. But always liked the idea of a rifle and handgun shooting the same cartridge.

That's too bad on the 44 mag rifle that someone that knows how to get cast to shoot just as well as jacketed, maybe even better, from Micro Groove rifling didn't help you.

[gypsyman]

It was in my early days of casting.(started in the late 80's) After I sold it, several ''old timers'' made some suggestions, but already gone.