Which 308win mold is right for me?

[93Bandit]

Howdy all,

I'm new to casting and new to the forum, although I've been lurking for some time prior to joining.

I've recently added casting to my reloading arsenal and have been casting 9mm but decided to try my hand at casting some rifle boolits. There's a wealth of information, opinions and options on the web that I've been sifting through but I'm struggling with settling on a mold to try.

My goals are strictly plinking at this point with a max range of 300yrds. However most plinking will be done between 100-200yards. The rifle I will be casting for is a new Savage Axis in 308win.

I'm very new to this and have read concerns about bullet length, seat depth and OAL in relation to rifle throat depth. Since I'm a noob, I am unsure if this concern is something I need to worry about when picking a mold. If it is, I need guidance. I've been eyeing the Lee C309-170-F or the C309-180-R molds, but am unsure if these bullets will be too long and/or if they will be accurate in my rifle.

On a side note, I'm casting with lead of unknown hardness/origin. I've got ~60lbs of unknown lead that was given to me that I've been casting 9mm with, and recently purchased 130lbs of lead the seller claims is wheel weight with some added tin. My fingernail says this lead is harder than my other 60lbs, but outside of that I can't accurately say what composition it is.

I have been powdercoating the 9mm bullets and it has been working well so far, so I plan to do the same for the 308.

Any help is appreciated!

[atr]

I use a 180 gr RN sized 0.309 in my .308 Savage99 and I get very good accuracy. Either of the molds you listed should give you good results. You should also invest in a Lyman expansion die.
best
atr

[RickinTN]

Some of the easiest molds to get good results from the beginning are the Silhouette molds. The C309-170F mold you mention is a 30-30 mold. Will it work? Maybe, but probably not to your extended ranges. The 180 Lee would probably be better. If I were starting all over again and wanted good results fast I could contact Tom at Accuratemolds.com And tell him I would like his rendition of one of the approximately 165 grain silhouette molds. His molds are well worth the money spent.
Good Luck to you,
Rick

[stubshaft]

Back in the 80's when I was heavily into competing in Silhouette I was shooting a Wichita MK40 in 308 and used the RCBS 308-165 SIL mold to win a number of State Championships.

[Misery-Whip]

Main difference is trimming your brass. You want to watch the length. Case length too long and the bolt will close hard and open even harder and this is bad practice because the case will bind the bullet in the chamber causing it not to want to release like it should creating HIGH PRESSURE.

Hotter loads can stretch the brass more in 2 firings than a mild loading might take 3 or 4 loadings to get to the trim length.

My axis likes accurate 2400, IMR 3031, and Unique. To be honest these are the only powders ive tried; and mid charges is where I have found 1in groups. From 135 grain gas checked to 180 grain checked and pc'd. ( between powders there is significant difference in point of aim vs point of impact).

OAL is to the crimp groove. I dont want debris to get in the crimp groove, and sent down the barrel.

General fyi... data is out there for light loadings. Loadings so light there is room in the case for a double charge. I suggest you start with a powder that fills 55% or more of the case volume.

Rifle is easier, but there is more prep work in trim and deburr, lubing cases, and cleaning the lube off.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Welcome! The Lee 170 shoots excellent for me out to 300 yards in my 30-06. The flat point helps initiate expansion when used for hunting, but occasionally hangs up when feeding from the mag. The round nose version would probably feed better for target shooting.

Powder coating the bore riding nose on these boolit designs can result in snug chambering in tighter throats, but I haven’t really had a problem doing so.

What rifle and twist rate are you using? What powders on hand? 1500-1800 fps is probably a good starting goal.

[dverna]

300 yards is a long way with a cast bullet. It can be done. Plenty of folks here say they can.

But it will not be easy.

Read the threads posted by Larry Gibson, and Bama.

IMO, you are setting yourself up for failure. Walk before you run. As a new caster, it will be a heck of a challenge.

[93Bandit]

Thank you all for your replies! I appreciate the suggestions and information.


Welcome! The Lee 170 shoots excellent for me out to 300 yards in my 30-06. The flat point helps initiate expansion when used for hunting, but occasionally hangs up when feeding from the mag. The round nose version would probably feed better for target shooting.

Powder coating the bore riding nose on these boolit designs can result in snug chambering in tighter throats, but I haven’t really had a problem doing so.

What rifle and twist rate are you using? What powders on hand? 1500-1800 fps is probably a good starting goal.

Thanks for the info. As mentioned in my first post, the rifle I'm casting for is a Savage Axis with a twist rate of 10:1. As for powders on hand, none currently. But plan to experiment with various powders over time, starting with what is suggested by members here.


300 yards is a long way with a cast bullet. It can be done. Plenty of folks here say they can.

But it will not be easy.

Read the threads posted by Larry Gibson, and Bama.

IMO, you are setting yourself up for failure. Walk before you run. As a new caster, it will be a heck of a challenge.

Thank you for the names, I will look at their posts. Why do you say I'm setting myself up for failure? I said most plinking will be at 100-200 yards, with a max goal of 300. Am I wrong to set an end goal? I do not expect to hit 300 yards accurately on the first cast, but with practice and experience I think I will be able to get there eventually.

[Larry Gibson]

If "plinking" is the name of the game, then I'd recommend the Lee C309-180-R.

"I'm very new to this and have read concerns about bullet length, seat depth and OAL in relation to rifle throat depth. Since I'm a noob, I am unsure if this concern is something I need to worry about when picking a mold. If it is, I need guidance. ."

I wouldn't get too concerned about all that at first. Just learn to cast good bullets with either alloy, GC and lube them properly and use a good load that will push them to 1700 - 1900 fps. There are many lessor loads giving less velocity but scope adjustment for 300 yard shooting may be a problem. Hence the velocity level recommended. Over 1900 fps and you will begin to have accuracy problems due to the 10" twist of the Savage barrel.

If you've not got or downloaded Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook #3 I suggest you do so as it will have in it some very good articles for the beginning bullet caster/loader and data for the 308W.

[William Yanda]

for plinking, the lightest boolet convenient, to save lead
for hunting, the heaviest boolet possible for effect.
Perhaps a compromise is in order to simplify things overall.

[Char-Gar]

The issue with the 308 Win. is the short case neck. Most 30 cal cast bullet designs will stick their feet in the fire. RCBS 165 Sil seems to have been designed for this round. It is a bore rider, but has worked and fit very well in all four 308s I have. In a good rifle, this bullet done right is a MOA bullet.

Best of luck

[93Bandit]

I found some H335 on my shelf I forgot about. Lymans manual lists it as an option for cast 180gr 308win. Has anyone tried this powder with cast 308?

[450]

I just picked up a Lee C312-155-2R mould for my 300 Savage. It has a really short neck so I’m hoping it works out good. The rifle seems to like 150 grn bullets.

[Shopdog]

I'm curious now dverna,how many cast rifle rigs do you have? Not talking onsey twosey,"tried cast couldn't make it work"..

Just curious about your experiences with rifle cast testing? And especially higher velocity,would love to hear your success stories.

300 yards is a long way with a cast bullet. It can be done. Plenty of folks here say they can.

But it will not be easy.

Read the threads posted by Larry Gibson, and Bama.

IMO, you are setting yourself up for failure. Walk before you run. As a new caster, it will be a heck of a challenge.

[Shopdog]

93, on bore riders you just have to put the work in testing and trying different nose dimensions...

The body of the bullet is going to be considerably more tolerant of diameter than the nose. Get that nose all snuggled up in the bore is going to put you in the fast lane so to speak way quicker than tweaking lubes,powders,bullet body sizes,etc.

Here's a shot of a 2600fps tackdriver 223, Lee 225-55RF. Well into jacketed "book" velocity tables. Look at the length vs width of that rifling mark on the nose ... that "length" is also part of your tests. Also look at the shiny top drive band... that's where the OAL tests put that band up against the chamber leade...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

A mold from 160 to 180 grains with a fairly streamlined shape works well over 100 yards. Mild velocity - 1600 to 1900 fps helps accuracy when first starting with cast bullets, also makes shooting more fun with reduced recoil and muzzle blast. The Lee C309-180R should work, I like the Lyman 311332 also. I shoot a lot of Matt's bullets, using his .310 185 grain spire point gas check in my .308's and the 300 Savage. I would suggest starting with a .310 diameter unless the .310 just will not chamber. Most of the Lyman Cast Bullet info is good, BUT bad advice on the appropriate bullet sizing is included. I have had good success using 5744 (16-20 grains), Reloder 7 (18-25 grains), and 4198 (18-25 grains) in the .308 with 180-190 grain boolits. You may need slower powders to go faster than 2000 plus fps. Depending on the rifle and shooter, care in casting and reloading, 2 MOA OR LESS at 200 yards should be reached without TOO much trouble. Wind will become your adversary past 150 yards, why streamlined bullets are recommended.

[450]

Is your 300 Savage a 99 model by chance? Also, what powder have you found that works best with the 300 Savage. I just got a Savage 99 in 300 Savage. I haven’t shot it but a couple of rounds with factory 150 grn and they grouped pretty good so I ordered a Lee 312-155 mould to try cast bullets in it. Thanks for any information.



A mold from 160 to 180 grains with a fairly streamlined shape works well over 100 yards. Mild velocity - 1600 to 1900 fps helps accuracy when first starting with cast bullets, also makes shooting more fun with reduced recoil and muzzle blast. The Lee C309-180R should work, I like the Lyman 311332 also. I shoot a lot of Matt's bullets, using his .310 185 grain spire point gas check in my .308's and the 300 Savage. I would suggest starting with a .310 diameter unless the .310 just will not chamber. Most of the Lyman Cast Bullet info is good, BUT bad advice on the appropriate bullet sizing is included. I have had good success using 5744 (16-20 grains), Reloder 7 (18-25 grains), and 4198 (18-25 grains) in the .308 with 180-190 grain boolits. You may need slower powders to go faster than 2000 plus fps. Depending on the rifle and shooter, care in casting and reloading, 2 MOA OR LESS at 200 yards should be reached without TOO much trouble. Wind will become your adversary past 150 yards, why streamlined bullets are recommended.

[Budzilla 19]

Lee C312-155-2r , powder coated, gas checked, fully dressed ready to load, weight is 163 grains.
So far, sized to .310”. Works well for me. IMR 4895 is the fuel. I’m not babying them, standing on the gas so to speak, and I can ring the 8” gong at 400 yards.( no chronograph, I killed it ) so no idea how fast they are going. Rifle is a24” heavy barreled Remington 700, free floated, trigger set at 3.5#, bipod, Hogue over molded factory stock. Good luck to you! This is a fun game!

[450]

Thanks for the info and I can’t wait to cast some bullets and try it out. Plus it will be awhile before I have shooting weather to do any testing. Winter sucks here in Fairbanks Alaska and last a long time.



Lee C312-155-2r , powder coated, gas checked, fully dressed ready to load, weight is 163 grains.
So far, sized to .310”. Works well for me. IMR 4895 is the fuel. I’m not babying them, standing on the gas so to speak, and I can ring the 8” gong at 400 yards.( no chronograph, I killed it ) so no idea how fast they are going. Rifle is a24” heavy barreled Remington 700, free floated, trigger set at 3.5#, bipod, Hogue over molded factory stock. Good luck to you! This is a fun game!

[popper]

I used 31-165C (accurate) PCd for my AR10 308W, worked fine to 200 and h335 works decent. Sold the AR, don't need the mold anymore. I don't use Lee molds anymore.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I guess it depends on what you want at 300 yards. 2-3 MOA should be possible without too much headache. We wait for calm days before trying as the wind works on lower velocity cast loads quite a bit. Somebody to spot hits really helps work out elevation.

See if you can find some Alliant 2400 locally, it would be my first choice. Alliant Unique or Herco might be my second choice. Alliant powders seemed to be the slowest to come back in stock. Maybe someone can suggest some Hodgdon powers?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Add your general location to your profile. Might be a member close by that can help out.

[93Bandit]

I guess it depends on what you want at 300 yards. 2-3 MOA should be possible without too much headache. We wait for calm days before trying as the wind works on lower velocity cast loads quite a bit. Somebody to spot hits really helps work out elevation.

See if you can find some Alliant 2400 locally, it would be my first choice. Alliant Unique or Herco might be my second choice. Alliant powders seemed to be the slowest to come back in stock. Maybe someone can suggest some Hodgdon powers?

Thank you for the powder suggestion. I will see what I can find locally. As for accuracy at 300 yards, I'd like to be able to hit a silhouette at that distance, so 2-3moa would be sufficient. Again, most of my shooting will be between 100-200 yards.


Thank you all for the help! I've read all your replies and have been chewing on the info. Since several of you recommended trying it, I went ahead and ordered the 180gr Lee mould. We shall see how it goes. I live in MI, so weather is a bit chilly right now (although it has been a mild winter so far). I do my casting in the garage with both doors open and a fan going, so I will likely wait until we get some warmer weather to begin casting again. I do have about 600 rounds of 9mm cast that I can work on powder coating in the mean time.

Again thank you all for the kind assistance. I've been exploring the forum a little more now that I've joined and there is a wealth of information here to digest!