PSA: NOE Powder-Thru Expanders

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

Just found out NOE has added an entire line of their excellent expanding plugs in a powder-through style to fit Lee’s die. Got a kit on order for my .44-40 loading, will report back here when I get to use it- but I expect the same superlative quality I’m used to from NOE. Oh, and when you click on the caliber listing you need, there’s then a drop down menu of lots of exact sizes to choose from, instead of the old separate listings for each exact size they use on the old solid plugs.

[GWS]

Noe is getting more valuable by the day. Good on them!

[Willbird]

Yep that is a great value for the price. A great example of economy of scale in action.

[oldhenry]

Just found out NOE has added an entire line of their excellent expanding plugs in a powder-through style to fit Lee’s die. Got a kit on order for my .44-40 loading, will report back here when I get to use it- but I expect the same superlative quality I’m used to from NOE. Oh, and when you click on the caliber listing you need, there’s then a drop down menu of lots of exact sizes to choose from, instead of the old separate listings for each exact size they use on the old solid plugs.
Will that powder through die work with a Lyman 55 measure?

[mdatlanta]

Great news! Thanks for the update. ��

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

Will that powder through die work with a Lyman 55 measure?

I have no idea, but would love to know as well.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Will that powder through die work with a Lyman 55 measure?
You need an adaptor.
Gun Guides makes them.
Also, there are others that offer them (search fleabay)

https://gun-guides.com/products/Perfect-Reloading-Powder-Measure-Adapters%E2%84%A2-for-LEE-Powder-Through-Dies-c23094183

Also, you may need a Lee Extension adaptor, depending on what Press you are using.

[jetinteriorguy]

Oh man, I’ve been waiting a long time for this.

[tomj44]

Does the powder through die have to have a powder measure on top to work?

[Tom Myers]

Does the powder through die have to have a powder measure on top to work?

No. At this time, the expanders and spacers are set up to use the Lee Auto_Drum or Lee-Auto-Disk measures. or you can use a funnel and hand dip the charge into the die.

[Tom Myers]

No. At this time, the expanders and spacers are set up to use the Lee Auto_Drum or Lee-Auto-Disk measures. or you can use a funnel and hand dip the charge into the die.

After my previous post, I remembered that there are some after-market applications that allow the use of Lyman, RCBS and (I think) Dillon powder measures that are manually operated to throw a charge. These units make use of a a threaded tube and a solid tube on the bottom with two O-rings that fit into the funnel-top that is supplied with the Lee Short and Long charging dies.

I am not a fan of O-rings to secure a powder measure so I went to work with Openscad and designed and printed a Lyman Drop Tube that replaces the funnel that screws into the top of the Lee charging dies . All I had was the relativly soft PLA 3D filament but I printed the adapter solid, without any in-fill and mounted the Lyman Powder charger onto the top of the Lee Powder Thru Expander Die containing the 30-30 0.311 x0.307 Expander, 1 Spacer and the overtravel ring.

I only had about 10 30-30 resized cases to try. After setting the die to the recommended three full turns up from contact with the shell plate and then adjusting down 1/4 turn, I then ran all 10 cases up into the die. I was able to slide All 10 cast. powder coated and sized to 0.309 N.O.E bullets into the case necks to just past the gas check. Perfect! I am well pleased with this setup and this should work on any of my presses, including the progressives.

Even though the adapter is only plastic, it seems solid and should last for my limited use of the Lyman Powder Measure.

I am including images of the N.O.E 30-30 Expander Setup, my Lyman Adapter and a cut-away of the setup of the 30-30 expander die and adapter. As the cut-away image shows, the powder has a straght shot from the powder measur all the way into the case body without any ledges or spaces to collect stray powder grains.

If any one wants a copy of the 3D stl file to use on their 3D printer or to send out to be printed click on this attachment to download a zip file with the Lyman PM Adapter.stl file.

309400


Hope this helps.

Click on the images to expand
309386 309382 309384

[GWS]

Tom, what I've done on this forum is to supply .stl's in attachments. CastBoolits allows .zip files for attachments. So I just make a new folder, insert the .stl files I want to share, then at the top menu of the open folder I pick "share", then zip.

Then in this forum just click "Go advanced".... page down to manage attachments....add the Zip file .... then just attach it into your post.

Example below:

309398

When you open the zip, it lists the .stls you want to share.

So you are another OpenScad master! I'm not that smart. I have to design my .stls with conventional cad...

I'm liking your software.....:)

[Tom Myers]

Tom, what I've done on this forum is to supply .stl's in attachments. CastBoolits allows .zip files for attachments. So I just make a new folder, insert the .stl files I want to share, then at the top menu of the open folder I pick "share", then zip.

Then in this forum just click "Go advanced".... page down to manage attachments....add the Zip file .... then just attach it into your post.

Example below:

309398

When you open the zip, it lists the .stls you want to share

Great. Thanks GWS. I'll make that work.

Also, Thanks for the kudos. I'm Pleased to learn that my software is working for you

Does this do the trick?

309399

Yep! It works. By golly that is slick!

[oley55]

"PSA: NOE Powder-Thru Expanders" an old guy I knows wonders what PSA could possibly mean in this post. A google search generated MANY times MANY possibilities. https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PSA Neither did this forum"s list of abbreviations/acronyms help:https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?107406-Abbreviations-Acronyms-As-Used-on-This-Forum
The closest to shooting was Palmetto State Armory, but that doesn't seem to fit the gist of the post.

edit: note to self, don't use acronyms if they only serve to detract from the subject. On the other hand I am particularly fond of the 7 P's.

[Tom Myers]

"PSA: NOE Powder-Thru Expanders" an old guy I knows wonders what PSA could possibly mean in this post. A google search generated MANY times MANY possibilities. https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PSA
The closest to shooting was Palmetto State Armory, but that doesn't seem to fit the gist of the post. It seems my secret decoder ring is after all only just a "Cracker Box" toy.

edit: note to self, don't use acronyms if they only serve to detract from the subject.

I'm not sure what "PSA acronym you are referring to. I looked back through all the posts and didn't spot it. The closest thing that comes to my mind is, back about 20 years ago, The VA doctor said that my PSA level (Prostate Specific Antigen) was very high and that I had prostate cancer. After a bad time in my life, the VA docs got me through that OK but "PSA is one acronym that has a very special meaning for me.

[Tom Myers]

"PSA: NOE Powder-Thru Expanders" an old guy I knows wonders what PSA could possibly mean in this post. A google search generated MANY times MANY possibilities. https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PSA Neither did this forum"s list of abbreviations/acronyms help:https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?107406-Abbreviations-Acronyms-As-Used-on-This-Forum
The closest to shooting was Palmetto State Armory, but that doesn't seem to fit the gist of the post.

edit: note to self, don't use acronyms if they only serve to detract from the subject. On the other hand I am particularly fond of the 7 P's.


I think I might have made the connection. Are you referring to my statement about using PLA filament to print the Lyman Powder Measure Adapter?

If so, PLA is the acronym for Polylactic acid or polylactide. That is the most common and easy to use 3D printing filament.

[GWS]

Great. Thanks GWS. I'll make that work.

Also, Thanks for the kudos. I'm Pleased to learn that my software is working for you

Does this do the trick?

309399

Yep! It works. By golly that is slick!

Thanks....I downloaded your adapter for when I get a NOE/Lee powder thru expander setup. Nice thing about NOE is they make for so many calibers. I have what I need for my unimaginative collection of .40 .9mm .357 and .45ACP, but I'm not dead yet. I use a Uniflow with these "M" powder thru expanders, so far...but that's all RCBS makes....except for .223 and .308 in their rifle feed/expander die kits (not powderthru)

https://i.postimg.cc/J4TPfSmJ/Inked152982_LI.jpg

[GWS]

I think the O.P. 's PSA meant "Public Service Announcement" :)

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

Wow guys. �� Next time I won’t abbreviate it: Public Service Announcement. ��

[jetinteriorguy]

I ordered plugs for four calibers yesterday but screwed up by not catching the size selector feature. I ordered for my .41mag, .357mag, .38sp, and 9mm. The .41 and 9mm sizes as listed are fine, but the .38/.357 are going to be too small at .353 I’m afraid. I tried to catch it and change the order but they were so efficient it had been shipped almost immediately. But at this price point I’ll just reorder which brings me to my question. I didn’t add in the spacer and am curious whether I need them or not? IE what’s their actual function? If I need them I’d just add them on to this order.

[Tom Myers]

I ordered plugs for four calibers yesterday but screwed up by not catching the size selector feature. I ordered for my .41mag, .357mag, .38sp, and 9mm. The .41 and 9mm sizes as listed are fine, but the .38/.357 are going to be too small at .353 I’m afraid. I tried to catch it and change the order but they were so efficient it had been shipped almost immediately. But at this price point I’ll just reorder which brings me to my question. I didn’t add in the spacer and am curious whether I need them or not? IE what’s their actual function? If I need them I’d just add them on to this order.

The over-travel ring is not strictly necessary but, if you are using either of the Lee, case-activated, powder measures, it will prevent over travel adjustmet from harming the Lee Auto-Drum(which Lee cautions against) and possible incomplete powder drop from the Lee Auto-Disk measure.

With the Over-Travel ring in place, adjusting the measure down too far will only cause excessive flare to the case neck, possibly ruining the case. Without the Over-Travel Ring in place, excessive downward adjustment will force the drop tube too far into the measure which, Lee states, can cause damage.

Better to ruin a case with over-travel adjustment than an expensive powder measure.

Due to the interior space in the Lee Powder-Thru-Expander dies and the geometry necessary to provide adjustment for a wide range of case lengths. the length of the spacers and of the expander dictated the use of a 2mm thick ring to allow precise adjustment for 153 of the SAAMI caliber case length specifications from 0.605 inches to 2.700 inches.

Even if one were to not use a case activated measure and either dip through a funnel or mount a hand operated measure to the die, without the ring, some case lengths would not have enough adjustment to completely expand and step the case neck.

Hope this helps.

I am encloseing an updated Openscad image of the setup combination for your 357 Magnum operation. The cutaway images illustrate the necessary use of the Over-Travle ring.

309409 309410

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

The over-travel ring is not strictly necessary but, if you are using either of the Lee, case-activated, powder measures, it will prevent over travel adjustmet from harming the Lee Auto-Drum(which Lee cautions against) and possible incomplete powder drop from the Lee Auto-Disk measure.

With the Over-Travel ring in place, adjusting the measure down too far will only cause excessive flare to the case neck, possibly ruining the case. Without the Over-Travel Ring in place, excessive downward adjustment will force the drop tube too far into the measure which, Lee states, can cause damage.

Better to ruin a case with over-travel adjustment than an expensive powder measure.

Due to the interior space in the Lee Powder-Thru-Expander dies and the geometry necessary to provide adjustment for a wide range of case lengths. the length of the spacers and of the expander dictated the use of a 2mm thick ring to allow precise adjustment for 153 of the SAAMI caliber case length specifications from 0.605 inches to 2.700 inches.

Even if one were to not use a case activated measure and either dip through a funnel or mount a hand operated measure to the die, without the ring, some case lengths would not have enough adjustment to completely expand and step the case neck.

Hope this helps.

I am encloseing an updated Openscad image of the setup combination for your 357 Magnum operation. The cutaway images illustrate the necessary use of the Over-Travle ring.

309409 309410

Tom, this info is PERFECT! Thank you! I went ahead and got the kit with all three pieces when I ordered my .44WCF plug, but could not find any info anywhere on NOE's site as to when the spacer and overtravel ring were to be used and how. Wish your information was added at the top of their website page for the expanders.

[Tom Myers]

Tom, this info is PERFECT! Thank you! I went ahead and got the kit with all three pieces when I ordered my .44WCF plug, but could not find any info anywhere on NOE's site as to when the spacer and overtravel ring were to be used and how. Wish your information was added at the top of their website page for the expanders.

The drawing is there on the page where you open the caliber you have selected showing the items you can order for that particular caliber. it is just a small thumbnail size image that you click on and then click the small magnifying glass icon to expand the image to a readable size:

NOE 44-40 PTE
Die (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/powder-through-expanders/pistol-powder-through-expanders/44-pistol-expanders/44-40-winchester-powder-through-expander-kit-w-die/)

Hope this helps.

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

Ha! Well I guess I was so excited about ordering the expander I didn't look at all the pictures! Many thanks for your time and everything you do, Tom. Could be nice to add a note in the item description as to why a fella might need the spacer and ring.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm glad they are offering powder through versions now, but I don't understand why NOE will not cut a relief so they aren't so hard to use. I've ripped rims off of cases using NOE plugs there is just too much surface area. I wouldn't want all that banging when using a powder measure. They can be fixed easily with a lathe, but it sure would be nice if NOE would just fix these so I wouldn't have to do it.

[jetinteriorguy]

The over-travel ring is not strictly necessary but, if you are using either of the Lee, case-activated, powder measures, it will prevent over travel adjustmet from harming the Lee Auto-Drum(which Lee cautions against) and possible incomplete powder drop from the Lee Auto-Disk measure.

With the Over-Travel ring in place, adjusting the measure down too far will only cause excessive flare to the case neck, possibly ruining the case. Without the Over-Travel Ring in place, excessive downward adjustment will force the drop tube too far into the measure which, Lee states, can cause damage.

Better to ruin a case with over-travel adjustment than an expensive powder measure.

Due to the interior space in the Lee Powder-Thru-Expander dies and the geometry necessary to provide adjustment for a wide range of case lengths. the length of the spacers and of the expander dictated the use of a 2mm thick ring to allow precise adjustment for 153 of the SAAMI caliber case length specifications from 0.605 inches to 2.700 inches.

Even if one were to not use a case activated measure and either dip through a funnel or mount a hand operated measure to the die, without the ring, some case lengths would not have enough adjustment to completely expand and step the case neck.

Hope this helps.

I am encloseing an updated Openscad image of the setup combination for your 357 Magnum operation. The cutaway images illustrate the necessary use of the Over-Travle ring.

309409 309410

Thank you for this. I’ll just add these to my next order then.

[jetinteriorguy]

I received my first order today and some very nice quality workmanship. I had to order more stuff due to me making a blunder on my first order, and now after receiving my first order it looks like I’m going to need a third order. Not trying to bag on NOE, but a simple explanation on the website would have saved me substantial money and time. So I’m going to supply this simple explanation here. If you’re ordering these expanders to work in die bodies you already have, just order the full kit for each caliber. You’ll need the spacers as specified and the optional spacer is good to have as well. The expanders as made are not direct replacements for the plug in your existing die. Once you have the spacers then you can just order extra expanders as needed by themselves. Granted, maybe I’m not so bright but a simple explanation would go a long way to help along with just a diagram.

[jetinteriorguy]

I set up my Dillon 550 with the new expanders and a Lee Auto Drum yesterday. I set it up according to the instructions in the diagram and wow does this work good. But I started noticing some small brass shavings in about 25% of the cases. It seems the step for the flare is a little sharp and scrapes off a bit of brass in some cases. I emailed NOE about it, and they called me back a couple hours later. The gentleman I talked to was super helpful, they’ve had this happen a couple other times and he told me how I could fix it or they’d gladly replace it. I’m just going to give it a slight polish with some Flitz on a cloth wheel with my Dremel which he said should work fine. If this doesn’t fix it he said they’d gladly take care of it. All in all not a big deal to me and easily taken care of, but I’m very very impressed by their service and ease of dealing with. The interesting part is my original flub in ordering means I have two more expanders in this size so I can pretty easily make at least one of them work.

[megasupermagnum]

I set up my Dillon 550 with the new expanders and a Lee Auto Drum yesterday. I set it up according to the instructions in the diagram and wow does this work good. But I started noticing some small brass shavings in about 25% of the cases. It seems the step for the flare is a little sharp and scrapes off a bit of brass in some cases. I emailed NOE about it, and they called me back a couple hours later. The gentleman I talked to was super helpful, they’ve had this happen a couple other times and he told me how I could fix it or they’d gladly replace it. I’m just going to give it a slight polish with some Flitz on a cloth wheel with my Dremel which he said should work fine. If this doesn’t fix it he said they’d gladly take care of it. All in all not a big deal to me and easily taken care of, but I’m very very impressed by their service and ease of dealing with. The interesting part is my original flub in ordering means I have two more expanders in this size so I can pretty easily make at least one of them work.

Every NOE plug I ever bought was the same way. They come rough as a cob. What works really good for me is to chuck it in a drill and polish it by hand with 400 grit sandpaper first, then you can follow with something like steel wool for a little polish. I've done this to all my plugs and it helps a ton. If you are using dirty brass they work pretty good, else a little lube is really needed for clean brass or you will always have some shaving/scratching, and as that brass builds up on the plug you will start to have them really stick on there.

[jetinteriorguy]

Every NOE plug I ever bought was the same way. They come rough as a cob. What works really good for me is to chuck it in a drill and polish it by hand with 400 grit sandpaper first, then you can follow with something like steel wool for a little polish. I've done this to all my plugs and it helps a ton. If you are using dirty brass they work pretty good, else a little lube is really needed for clean brass or you will always have some shaving/scratching, and as that brass builds up on the plug you will start to have them really stick on there.
I polished all of my plugs and sprayed them with graphite inside and out. In the process I discovered I’d inadvertently grabbed the plug for .357/.38 and had been using it in my 9mm. Luckily the Lee FCD straightened everything out and they worked fine. So far the proper 9mm plug has been working perfectly for the next hundred I loaded up. Compared to how the original Lee expander sticks the NOE plugs are super smooth. As far as the finish, mine are definitely not rough but very smooth and well finished. I just polished where the flaring step started to eliminate a sharp edge that had been scraping a slight sliver of brass off some of the cases. The polish fixed that easily.

[Big Wes]

Wow guys. �� Next time I won’t abbreviate it: Public Service Announcement. ��

I checked out you web page http://www.axe-n-anvil.com/ I really enjoyed the videos. Great stuff and Great craftsmanship.

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

I checked out you web page http://www.axe-n-anvil.com/ I really enjoyed the videos. Great stuff and Great craftsmanship.

Well thank you Wes! I genuinely enjoy my work. Hope to get back to making some more youtube videos this year.

[jetinteriorguy]

Well thank you Wes! I genuinely enjoy my work. Hope to get back to making some more youtube videos this year.

My grandfather was an old school blacksmith. He specialized in making tools for veterinarians back in the 20’s-40’s in North Dakota when these tools were hard to come by. I still have some of them and use them to this day, although I’m not a veterinarian I have alternative uses for them.