pressure signs

[firesar]

hi all

I am shooting a 500gr paper patch out of a traditions in-line magnum . I have loaded this from 70gr-120gr of Holy Black. I was wondering if any one knows what pressure signs to look for in a in-line and a traditional muzzle loader. I am not looking to push this any harder but wanted to be safe. I have bases the loads off of the old cartridges like 50-120 and 50-90

Thanks for the help

[Kuato]

If the rifle blows up in your face, too much pressure..:holysheep

Just remember, its a rifle not a howitzer. Keep things sane & you'll have no problems..

[357maximum]

You do realize all the mastadon are dead right. :kidding:

Pain or a split stock will stop you before a blowup methinks,,,but I have been wrong before.

[boommer]

What's the primer look like? dose the primer look any different from a 70 grain load than a 120gr load? pushing a 500 gr slug out of a inline that was probably designed for 300 gr slug you are uping the pressures for sure!

[missionary5155]

Good morning Firesar and WELCOME ! Good looking cubs !
This in-line is a different case.... But I know of a heavy octagon barrelled percission .45 that had a very tight newspaper wad (4th of July Celebration) stuck in the barrel that upon firing recocked the hammer to the reload / safe notch on the tumbler. The load I beleive was average but the it sounded like several .69´s going off.
THAT was excessive pressure.
God bless you. MIke

[northmn]

About the only pressure sign I remember was when I was range master at a shoot and a friend showed me his heavy built bullalo sticks gun in 54. Claimed it liked 150 grains of 3f. After about 3 shots at a target he called me over with a sheepish looked and showed me that the nipple had blown out. I wonder if he didn't accidently double charge as he had shot that load a lot before. BP barrels have been to some pretty heavy tests. In one case a barrel was plugged at both ends and the heavy charge vented out the touch hole. I do not think there is any sure fire pressure sign. Hammers get blown back on half cock, but often due to too large a nipple hole. Still a bad sign on a traditional gun. On a modern zip gun I question whether there is any progressive pressure signs.

Northmn

[Beerd]

Your shoulder will tell you when the pressure gets excessive. ;-)
..

[firesar]

The primer is out of the holder some times with the 70gr- 120gr, I really don't see any change in the them. With the paper patch it's a stable round from 90rg to120gr, the same bullet as a grease groove it will not perform vary well. The GG has some recoil and tumbles but the PP just pushes. I shot the GG up the 100 grs and got 1800+ fps, I have not got the fps on the PP yet just got it to shoot strait and not key hole.

Its all fun I just don't want a repeat a 2001 reload 110000 psi in a new rem 710 and 3 days in the hospital. That was a $30000+ mistake on my part.

[EchoSixMike]

500gn at 1800+fps using black? I think you're well past sane levels already, how did you measure MV? I'm looking at 540gns at 1300fps from my front stuffer and I'm pretty sure that'll flatten anything in North America just fine. S/F......Ken M

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The manufacturers of such firearms typically provide maximum recommended load data or you can get it from them. That's the answer. BvT

[northmn]

The 500 grain bullet in a 50 is not over heavy but I doubt if manufacturers supply any data on that heavy of bullet. The thing is that in ML's when more power was needed they used bigger bores which are more efficient with heavy loads. A 12 gauge rifle with its larger diameter in a round ball will ahve more effect on most North American game up close than smaller bores. 45 MLs like the Whitworth or the long range target guns used bullets of about 500 grains but used about 70 grains of powder or maybe up to 90. A lot was due to recoil and a lot to accuracy. Another issue is the fact that heavy loads are hell on guns even if the barrels stand up to the pressures. Things just start coming loose. Modern ML's are really made too light weight to withstand a lot of heavy loads shooting. My 45-70 BPC probably weighs more than 10 pounds which is plenty light. Many of the earlier big bore guns weighed up to 20+ pounds. Carmichael had an intersting article on the effects constant shotgun shooting had on his neck and shoulders once. Some folks like shooting powerful guns, I have killed all the elephants I have seen in MN with lesser rifles.

Northmn

[Boz330]

The long range MLs are using over a 100grs of powder and 500 to 550gr boolits. The big problem is they burn out the nipples in as little as 10 rounds. The fix is a platinum lined nipple and even those don't last forever.
When I was guiding we use to recommend the Gonic inline to our hunters and their standard load was over a 100gs of Pyro and a 500gr boolit. And some of the Knight guns use 150gr with up to 375gr sabot bullets. I would think that that plastic sabot would give a lot more resistance than lead.

Bob

[725]

firesar,
You've already referenced a trip to the hospital and some expensive and (no doubt) painful costs in your pursuit of massive bangs. Stick to the book, be safe, and stop making our safe hobby look like a walk on the wild side. All the uninformed & ignorant masses that hear about you and your adventures will form an opinion about the general issue of guns and gun safety. Some of them even vote. If you want a 4 bore, get a 4 bore.

[northmn]

The long range MLs are using over a 100grs of powder and 500 to 550gr boolits. The big problem is they burn out the nipples in as little as 10 rounds. The fix is a platinum lined nipple and even those don't last forever.
When I was guiding we use to recommend the Gonic inline to our hunters and their standard load was over a 100gs of Pyro and a 500gr boolit. And some of the Knight guns use 150gr with up to 375gr sabot bullets. I would think that that plastic sabot would give a lot more resistance than lead.

Bob

The original loads were closer to 70-90 grains in guns like the Whitworth. I am sure that the long range people have upped that somewhat. The 45-90 has gained in popularity over the 45-70 because it shoots a little flatter. Actually at extreme ranges like 1000 yards there is not that much difference. The military tested the 45-70 at one mile and found that 80 grains made no difference. Its a matter of perspective and accuracy issues as in stabilization. If one looks at the drop of a bullet at 1000 yards a couple of feet either way would not matter. Its really quite amazing how well they can hit at those ranges. The rifles still are pretty hefty in build and weight to handle the recoil.

Northmn