BP 357 max

[Nobade]

Hey KWK, I tried to reply to your PM but you have your inbox set to not receive messages so I couldn't.

Anybody else here want to talk about using black powder in the 357 Max? It is pretty entertaining. The modern Stevens 38 extra long.

[missionary5155]

BP works great in any modern brass right up to 50 Alaskan.
Benefit... in modern arms it does no harm to give 4F a try. 3F Goex is our 1st choice.
We have shot far more in the 414 Supermag 336 we built 10 years ago. No rifles in 357 Supermag.

[Fitz]

I shoot my homemade black in a ruger #3 single shot that started out a 223 but had the change of life to a 350 legend and it does really well.

[KWK]

Hey KWK, I tried to reply to your PM but you have your inbox set to not receive messages so I couldn't.

Thanks for replying. I'll wager it was my changing my e-mail address yesterday. This morning I found a note from the forum software asking me to verify the new address, so my e-mail had been temporarily disabled and my settings request notification by e-mail of a new PM.

Regardless, others here might learn from the discussion.

I've been thinking about making up a light rifle in either 357 Mag or Max. I'm just getting into BP, and I like it enough to want a cartridge that can work both BP and smokeless. From a search engine, I found this post by you 7 or 8 years ago, about the Max:


It can also digest a very wide variety of gunpowder, both smokeless and black. Quite a useful thing to have if you can find brass.

I found other posts by you which describe very good accuracy with both cases using black powder. I'm curious what sort of speed one can get with 158 and 180 grain bullets in these two cases when using BP. My son and I did some BP in the Mag this summer but with 110 gn jacketed bullets. Sadly, I can't find my notes as to the speed, but we do recall Swiss 3F was about 200 fps faster than the Goex.

The Mag case seems a little small to be fully satisfying with BP. The usable capacity of the Max is about 50% higher, though. It pretty much duplicates the old 38 Ballard Extra Long and the 35-30 Maynard.

How's the supply of Max brass been since your post back then? I see Starline makes it, and it's even in stock at the moment. Of course, the supply of Mag brass is not a long term concern.

[Don McDowell]

Several years ago Dan Theodore played with this a bit. Using fast twist barrels and tapered 250 gr bullets the cartridge did have some success is silhouette shooting.
Might be able to search the Shiloh Forum.

[Nobade]

Thanks for replying. I'll wager it was my changing my e-mail address yesterday. This morning I found a note from the forum software asking me to verify the new address, so my e-mail had been temporarily disabled and my settings request notification by e-mail of a new PM.

Regardless, others here might learn from the discussion.

I've been thinking about making up a light rifle in either 357 Mag or Max. I'm just getting into BP, and I like it enough to want a cartridge that can work both BP and smokeless. From a search engine, I found this post by you 7 or 8 years ago, about the Max:



I found other posts by you which describe very good accuracy with both cases using black powder. I'm curious what sort of speed one can get with 158 and 180 grain bullets in these two cases when using BP. My son and I did some BP in the Mag this summer but with 110 gn jacketed bullets. Sadly, I can't find my notes as to the speed, but we do recall Swiss 3F was about 200 fps faster than the Goex.

The Mag case seems a little small to be fully satisfying with BP. The usable capacity of the Max is about 50% higher, though. It pretty much duplicates the old 38 Ballard Extra Long and the 35-30 Maynard.

How's the supply of Max brass been since your post back then? I see Starline makes it, and it's even in stock at the moment. Of course, the supply of Mag brass is not a long term concern.

It has been a long time since I played with those much, but if I remember correctly I was seeing about 1000 fps from the mag and maybe 1150 - 1200 fps from the max out of rifle length barrels. They both make great black powder rounds, just anneal them well so they will seal the chamber since they are both kind of thick for a BP case. As for brass, I have a bunch of Remington and Winchester cases but I don't think they are made any longer so Starline would be the way to go and there's nothing wrong with theirs.

One question would be what action do you have in mind to use? There aren't many small falling block designs that will hold a full pressure 357 max load. I know you want to use it with black powder but for safety sake it needs to be able to hold factory ammo as well since that is still available. The Miroku low wall comes to mind but I can't think of many others. I'm still waiting on the Ruger #.75 myself...:lol:

[Nobade]

Several years ago Dan Theodore played with this a bit. Using fast twist barrels and tapered 250 gr bullets the cartridge did have some success is silhouette shooting.
Might be able to search the Shiloh Forum.

That would be fun! Fire, set rifle down, pick up binoculars, and watch the ram get hit!

[KWK]

Nobade, the Hagn is the only miniature falling block I know of. It was designed for the 222 family, so it can handle the Mag/Max pressures easily. It's seriously pricey, though, and I haven't committed to the project. They usually weigh less than 5 lb without a scope. A full power Max would rattle one's noggin, I fear. I hadn't thought of this action in a long time; I handled one 8 years ago: What a delightful little rifle. I was reminded of it when last month I handled an Alexander Henry miniature in 360 BPE. It weighed just under 5 lb, and this for a cartridge a bit larger than the 38-55. Had the stock fit me better I'd have tried to buy it. It, too, is seriously pricey. Not many of us like the miniature rifles, but they still command quite the price in the market. There's also the Li'l Sharps from Chiappa, but it's not as dainty and I've had really bad luck with Italian guns.

Those fps for the BP versions in a rifle are a bit less than I was hoping. Perhaps the 360 or 32-40 instead.

For reference, Cartridges of the World lists the nearly identical 38 Ballard Extra Long as 146 gn at 1275 fps. With 3F and even 4F I suppose one might eke out 1300. The listing for the 35-30 Maynard is puzzling. The case is just a bit fatter, but it's 250 gn at 1280 fps. I have to wonder if this one wasn't breech loaded.