Ballard #4 stock conversion.

[marlinman93]

This is the first forged Ballard rifle I ever bought, maybe 35 years ago? It started life at Marlin built the first year John Marlin took over building Ballard rifles, and uses a Marlin built receiver and breech block, but the rest is assembled from leftover Brown Mfg. parts; the company that made Ballards prior to Marlin.
Because it's a low 3 digit 1875 Ballard, it's got the deep crescent buttplate used by Brown Mfg., and being a .45-70 it can be painful to shoot! I restored the gun back when I first got it, and wanted to keep it 100% original style. But the buttplate is something I've always disliked to shoot. So recently I bought a box full of Ballard buttstocks, and one of them had no checkering, so I thought it was a great candidate to convert to pistol grip, and set the original stock and buttplate aside to save.
I started by just trying to see how it fit, and was surprised it didn't even slide on as the inletting was too tight to fit over the Ballard tapered round tang inside. So I painted up the tang and slid it in to see where it was too tight. Then using a rat tail coarse file I kept filing and trying it until it finally fit.
Next I taped up the receiver and used a black felt marker along the edge of the stock to show me how much too large it was. It was 3/16" too low at the bottom, which was expected for a straight grip receiver, but also slightly large on the sides. Using a half round coarse file I worked it down to just high of the metal, and slid it on to check. It fit well, but closing the lever revealed the loop hit the pistol grip before the lever slipped over the pin in the receiver. So I marked that area with a marker also, and kept filing with a half round file until the lever closed. Later I'll blend the area out into the pistol grip.
The stock had a flat base on the pistol grip instead of the nice S shape Marlin stocks had, so I marked the shape, and using a jeweler's saw I rough cut the S shape into it, and then final filed it smooth. I'll refine all the rough filing and shaping after I strip the wood, and prep it for new finish.
The stock has a nice Niedner fine checkered buttplate that should make the .45-70 much more comfortable to shoot! I'll try to match finish to the existing forearm, but if it's not a perfect match I'm OK with it since this is mainly to make shooting more comfortable.

New stock and old stock:

https://i.imgur.com/V0W8eQjl.jpg

Old stock with the Brown deep crescent:

https://i.imgur.com/Z6i1Giml.jpg

Pistol grip stock reshaped to fit and clear lever:

https://i.imgur.com/gb7Kv2Ll.jpg

Still need final shaping to blend this relief into the pistol grip area:

https://i.imgur.com/59EPalkl.jpg

[barkerwc4362]

Looks like you are making good progress. I understand the desire to have a shotgun style butt plate on a 45-70. When I purchased my Browning 1886 rifle in 45-70 it had the rifle crescent butt plate. Even in that full mag 26" octagonal barrelled rifle stout loads could be painful. I had a friend restock it so it has a old original Winchester style checkered butt plate on it. I also had him checker it using an original Winchester pattern. Definitely makes it more pleasant to shoot long strings with.
Bill

[marlinman93]

Looks like you are making good progress. I understand the desire to have a shotgun style butt plate on a 45-70. When I purchased my Browning 1886 rifle in 45-70 it had the rifle crescent butt plate. Even in that full mag 26" octagonal barrelled rifle stout loads could be painful. I had a friend restock it so it has a old original Winchester style checkered butt plate on it. I also had him checker it using an original Winchester pattern. Definitely makes it more pleasant to shoot long strings with.
Bill

Yes, the flat buttplate helps a lot, but also the larger length and width of the buttplate helps just as much to distribute the recoil on my shoulder. The conversion to pistol grip doesn't really do anything other than appearance. I would have done it in a straight grip but all my spare straight grip stocks are 90% inletted and I was too lazy to do a complete fit up on a finished gun. It's just easier to retrofit this old stock than start from scratch.

[marlinman93]

Got the stock stripped today, and final shaping and sanding done. Also bedded it to the action, and it's sitting while it cures overnight. Tomorrow I'll try to match the stain to the forearm, and then begin applying the Wipe On Poly finish. About 6 coats wet sanded should do it, and after it's cured for a few weeks I'll rub it out with rottenstone powder, and wax it.

[Green Frog]

I’ve been watching this on both forums and look forward to seeing the finished product. This project seems both logical and daunting at the same time. I’ve seen PG stocks designed specifically for straight receivers, but this is the first time I’ve seen one altered as you’re doing… IMPRESSIVE!

Your Friend the Frog

[marlinman93]

The pistol grip to a straight grip frame is mostly aesthetics for the style lever my #4 has, since your hand doesn't really rest on the pistol grip of the stock. My main reason for doing this conversion is I had the stock, and it had a very large Niedner buttplate, so it will be comfortable.
I have another straight grip #2 in .32-20 that Russ Gent sold me and he had converted it to pistol grip with new wood. The S lever makes the conversion stock more useable because your last couple fingers actually rest on the wood more than my #4 will. But his conversion also required the lever to be bent to clear the pistol grip, so his pistol grip is a more gentle curve.

https://i.imgur.com/UYYq3B7l.jpg

[Shawlerbrook]

That stock is a beautiful piece of wood. And looks a lot more comfortable to shoot.

[marlinman93]

That stock is a beautiful piece of wood. And looks a lot more comfortable to shoot.

Thanks. It's actually pretty plain wood, but that means it wont chip or crack as easy as fancy wood will.


Did a little more sanding, and checked the fit to metal and it's good. Applying the first coats of stain, and then more sanding before any finish goes on. The stain helps me see any scratches, or uneven surfaces, so it's just a first step towards more stain later.

https://i.imgur.com/MaOZLlMl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uO9qUyzl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hyC4HkNl.jpg

I'll let it dry well and do more sanding later today.

https://i.imgur.com/B2CaEUml.jpg

[Green Frog]

Sweet! Thanks for sharing. It keeps looking better all the time.

Froggie

[marlinman93]

Sweet! Thanks for sharing. It keeps looking better all the time.

Froggie

Thanks Charlie.
Started applying the finish this afternoon. Probably get 3 coats on with cooler drying times. Then I can wet sand as I apply coats after the 3 base coats. So far no sheen, so wont sand until I see it's not soaking in anymore.

[Bigslug]

You're following about the same thought process my Dad did with his Pacific. Forend was gone completely and the original stock replaced with something a lot more "targety". When faced with the thought of launching 400+ grain bullets, the idea of taking it back to an original style crescent buttplate met with "Ummmmmm. . .No."

Haven't had any of the Ballards out lately. Probably need to fix that. . .

[koger]

Great job Val, great looking gun as well. Thanks for sharing the pics and the process.

[marlinman93]

You're following about the same thought process my Dad did with his Pacific. Forend was gone completely and the original stock replaced with something a lot more "targety". When faced with the thought of launching 400+ grain bullets, the idea of taking it back to an original style crescent buttplate met with "Ummmmmm. . .No."

Haven't had any of the Ballards out lately. Probably need to fix that. . .

Pacific forearms are one of the toughest to do once I get to that cross screw they use to attach them to the barrel! The channel I do on my mill just like I do all forearms, and outside shaping is no big deal. But getting the hole centered up and down, forward to back, can be challenging. And if it's off slightly you end up tossing it, and starting over. I usually tend to make the hole slightly forward so I can remove wood off the back to align them. And I only rough shape the outside before doing the hole so I don't have too much work in them in case I ever missed. So far the few I've done worked and didn't lose any wood or labor.

[marlinman93]

Great job Val, great looking gun as well. Thanks for sharing the pics and the process.

This #4 is one of my favorite Ballard rifles in my collection. A good friend fitted and rough shaped the 34" half octagon barrel to match the junk barrel I took off it, and I polished it out. It was the first rifle I did a full restoration on, and when I took the barrel to a local gunsmith to be rust blued he chuckled at the high finish I'd done on polishing it. I think I polished it to 400 grit, and it looked like a new chrome bumper! He told me he'd have to knock the finish down a bit or it wouldn't rust blue being so highly polished.
I sent the receiver, and parts to Ballard Rifle in Cody to be color cased and they did nice work, but charged me almost double what they quoted me! I called them on it and was told "it wasn't ready for color case" when it arrived. That was totally wrong and I think they got my action mixed up with somebody else's that wasn't ready. So somebody got my price, and I paid for theirs. They wouldn't budge and I never sent them anymore work again.


I got 3 coats done on the stock yesterday, and it just keeps soaking up finish like brand new raw wood does. Usually after stripping there's enough residual finish or sealer in the wood that it takes less coats to get it to stop soaking in, and then I can begin applying finish and wet sad it in. I did one more just before bed last night, so I'll see how it does today, and maybe begin wet sanding it. Once I get to that point I can only do a couple applications a day to allow full drying time between coats.

[Bigslug]

Pacific forearms are one of the toughest to do once I get to that cross screw they use to attach them to the barrel! . . .

Yeah, that. I can't even correctly recall how we attended to that part of the process - - though I think there was a drill press, serious pre-flight deliberation, and considerable nail-biting involved. End result was a .45-70 we both like A LOT.

[marlinman93]

Yeah, that. I can't even correctly recall how we attended to that part of the process - - though I think there was a drill press, serious pre-flight deliberation, and considerable nail-biting involved. End result was a .45-70 we both like A LOT.

When I've done a couple I fit the wood to the barrel, and then holding it in place with large rubber bands I put masking tape along the top edge of the barrel where the forearm wood ended. Then removed the forearm and used dial calipers to measure off a flat surface the barrel was clamped to, up to the tape, and again up to the hole. That gave me the measurement down from the top edge of the forearm to make a mark. Then measuring off the receiver I made the second mark for the length to center and marked it.
Once marked a drill press is a must to ensure the hole is straight, and I drill with a much smaller bit the first time. Then slide the forearm in place and use the drill bit to check that it aligns with the barrel hole. After that I just open the hole up for the screw size, and countersink the escutcheons for the screw head, and threaded sides into the stock.


I think I've reached full saturation on the finish now as it's taking overnight to dry to the touch now. So it's ready to install on the #4 and I'll pull it off and rub it out with rottenstone after it's fully cured, and then wax and buff it.

[TCLouis]

Looks great and is now a comfortable shooter.

I have NEVER figured out why they ever started making guns of any type with the deep crescent butt.

[marlinman93]

Looks great and is now a comfortable shooter.

I have NEVER figured out why they ever started making guns of any type with the deep crescent butt.

The standard later small crescent buttplates used on Ballards and Marlin repeaters never bother me. I have many with those, and shoot them without any discomfort. These early Brown Mfg. and first year Marlin Ballard deep crescents aren't any good for even medium recoil, and horrible for heavy recoil! Remington used the same similar buttplate on early Sporting Rifles and the same problems. I own a very early round top Rolling Block Sporter, and fortunately it's in .44 Long CF, so recoil is very mild and I can live with it.

[marlinman93]

This Niedner buttplate will be much more comfortable shooting my heavy 530 gr. bullets.

https://i.imgur.com/p5IV5R0l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2L4J8Pvl.jpg

[JKR]

The standard later small crescent buttplates used on Ballards and Marlin repeaters never bother me. I have many with those, and shoot them without any discomfort. These early Brown Mfg. and first year Marlin Ballard deep crescents aren't any good for even medium recoil, and horrible for heavy recoil! Remington used the same similar buttplate on early Sporting Rifles and the same problems. I own a very early round top Rolling Block Sporter, and fortunately it's in .44 Long CF, so recoil is very mild and I can live with it.

I did same as you with a Hi Wall. It’s a fairly light rifle with a #3 barrel. I won a Treebone gift certificate at a match. Didn’t take me long to decide how to use it!

JKR

[marlinman93]

I did same as you with a Hi Wall. It’s a fairly light rifle with a #3 barrel. I won a Treebone gift certificate at a match. Didn’t take me long to decide how to use it!

JKR

I have several semi inletted pistol grip, or straight grip stock/forearm sets in my spare stock box, didn't want to use any as I'd need to do both stock and forearm. Plus I hate stock work, and fully fitting buttstocks and forearms is a pain I try to avoid.
I just purchased another really high grade pistol grip stock a friend built, and never used. It came with a typical Farrow Swiss buttplate and two forearms. I may or may not use the buttplate as it's been mis-drilled by some machinist who didn't follow instructions. I may braze the holes closed and re-drill it properly.

[Shawlerbrook]

Vall, I was referring to the wood on the Russ Gent gun.

[marlinman93]

Vall, I was referring to the wood on the Russ Gent gun.

I wondered about that. Yes, the Ballard Russ restocked has wonderful wood, as does every stock I've ever seen his work on. I have another Ballard I bought from Russ that he completely restored and restocked, and the wood and workmanship is equally wonderful. This one is a .22LR.

https://i.imgur.com/iDTjSwQl.jpg

[Shawlerbrook]

Wow ^^^^!!!

[Green Frog]

That’s a doll baby, Vall. A man would have to work at it to shoot a poor score with that sweetheart. ��

[marlinman93]

That’s a doll baby, Vall. A man would have to work at it to shoot a poor score with that sweetheart. ��

It is a wonderful, accurate rifle Charlie! Sadly it's built on a heavy Ballard CF action, which seems a waste to be chambered for .22LR in! Russ' workmanship on Ballard rifles is about as good as anyone's I've ever seen.

[Green Frog]

Don't complain about it being built as a 22. You know that a lot of old Ballards would have been written off as obsolete scrap iron if the rimfire crowd hadn't fallen in love with them and had target guns built from them. If you don't like that wasted old action, I'll swap you a Pacific and a future draft choice for it! [smilie=l:
Froggie

[marlinman93]

Don't complain about it being built as a 22. You know that a lot of old Ballards would have been written off as obsolete scrap iron if the rimfire crowd hadn't fallen in love with them and had target guns built from them. If you don't like that wasted old action, I'll swap you a Pacific and a future draft choice for it! [smilie=l:
Froggie

I actually have three old heavy frame Ballard rifles that are all custom builds done by well known makers from around 1900 period and all are done up as .22 rimfires. A Zettler Bros. done on a #6 Schuetzen in .22 Short, and a Pope and a AW Peterson done in .22LR.
I long ago told myself I didn't want to buy another .22RF Ballard as I had all I needed, but then something would come along that was too cool, and priced right, so had to break my own rule.

[Green Frog]

Let’s face it, Vall. You have no will power when it comes to a new found Ballard. You’re like my little puppy every time she saw a squirrel! Oh well, that’s just one less I’ll have to drool over while you keep it stashed at your place. Thanks for showing them though. 8-)
Regards,
Froggie

[marlinman93]

Let’s face it, Vall. You have no will power when it comes to a new found Ballard. You’re like my little puppy every time she saw a squirrel! Oh well, that’s just one less I’ll have to drool over while you keep it stashed at your place. Thanks for showing them though. 8-)
Regards,
Froggie

You certainly called that right Charlie! I can resist some Ballard rifles that are too rough, too plain, or too expensive. But if they're pretty cool rifles, and I happen to have the funds, I can't resist any of them!