Alox 50/50 with mineral spirits

[papaglenn]

Hello,

I am waiting for a new bottle of Xlox from White Label Lubes. I am also getting low on my Johnson's Liquid Wax that I use for making BLL.

I am going to try a 50/50 mix of Xlox and mineral spirits. Has anyone ever used this mix for high velocity loads?

I have diluted Lee's Alox before but only used it on 45 ACP and 45 LC. My plan is to try 3 light coats on my 30 and 35 caliber bullets at around 1800 to 1900 fps. Maybe higher.

Thanks in advance for your time.

[RickinTN]

The only way you will know is to try. From what I think I know and have read your velocities may be pushing it a bit, but maybe not. Three coats is what I would do also If I were going to try.
Good Luck to you!
Rick

[stubshaft]

The mineral spirits will only help the Xlox to dry faster and brings nothing to the lubricity.

[45DUDE]

Can't you use a commode ring to replace Johnson's wax. I have some but haven't tried because I still have a couple cans of Johnsons. People on you tube use it.

[G W Wade]

Wax rings used tobe bee's wax but changed many years ago. GW

[BK7saum]

Can't you use a commode ring to replace Johnson's wax. I have some but haven't tried because I still have a couple cans of Johnsons. People on you tube use it.

Johnson's Liquid wax and Johnson's Paste wax are two completley different products.

[papaglenn]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

My goal was to use Alox or Xlox only and to thin it with mineral spirits to make it stretch further.

I was curious if anyone else was using this same method for faster loads.

[Soundguy]

1800-1900 IMHO is a bit much for tumble lubes like alox. I use them up to about 1300ish fps.

Going with multiple thin coats is also what i would do if trying to build up.. vs one huge thick coat.. unless I was just making a few and was just dipping bases.. in which case I would use straight.

I think everyone is aware that the mineral spirits is just a thinner... for faster drying you could even use a hair of mineral spirits and then naptha... naptha flashes fast...

To the other poster that mentioned toilet bowl rings.. they have long been some synthetic material.. at least in my part of the woods.

I think If I was doing this.. i might mix alox and paste wax and a hair of red grease along with some mineral spirits.. add in a little wax from a crayon or a candle.. heat and stir.. I do this with those empty picnic ketchup bottles you can buy at walmart for 84 cents.. After heating pour it in the bottle.. from there you can dribble over the bullets and lube them in a old food container by shaking or in a sandwich bag.. then dump out on waxed paper. The mixture will solidify at room temp in a few minutes. To reheap the bottle.. just microwave a bowl of water and then set this squeeze container in it.. like a double boiler.. it will soon soften and flow.
I've had great luck with lubes like that and similar ( some with soap and castor oil added ).. on rifles in the 2500fps range with 0 leading. ( and a gas check and lyman #2 alloy.. etc.. )

[45DUDE]

Johnson's Liquid wax and Johnson's Paste wax are two completley different products.

Sorry==Mine is paste wax=mineral sprits-and Lee alox. It's a backup in case I run out of 450 White Label lube.

[gwpercle]

Can't you use a commode ring to replace Johnson's wax. I have some but haven't tried because I still have a couple cans of Johnsons. People on you tube use it.

People on U-tube don't have to know what they talk about or be correct in what they do .

The toilet rings used to be made with Beeswax ... but no longer , they are all Paraffin based now and will not take the place ... replace , Johnson's Paste or Johnson's Liquid wax

[centershot]

Since you already have the X-lox and mineral spirits, pick up a can of Johnson's Paste Wax and proceed as follows:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?449721-Liquid-lube&p=5514075&viewfull=1#post5514075

[turtlezx]

if you warm the boolits in oven warm lube in microwave should be plenty thin without reducing lube

[JoeJames]

Per yall's recommendations in the past and because I normally use Lee TL type boolits, I always use 50/50 Lee Liquid Alox and Mineral Spirits. Not had any trouble at all.

[Soundguy]

For handgun it's fantastic and easy.

[405grain]

I've been using 45-45-10 to tumble lube for a couple of years now and it works great. 45% white labs xlox, 45% Johnson's paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits. It only takes a few drops to swirl lube a batch of boolits, and it dries really well. Multiple coats can be applied if needed. straight xlox and mineral spirits might be sticky after it dries, but 45-45-10 is "almost" dry to the touch. The johnson's liquid wax might be long gone, but the paste wax is still available.

[fayettefatts]

My understanding is the Johnson's paste wax has been discontinued also. I can't find it anywhere. Also have read that Trewax brand paste wax with carnuba can be used as a substitute. Has anyone tried it? If it works I will get some before I run out of Johnson's.

[missionary5155]

Several internet places sell beeswax.

[Soundguy]

Lowes here sells the Johnson's paste wax.

[35isit]

I use Alox and mineral spirits mixed together. I'll be honest and tell you I've forgotten the ratio I used. I think 50-50. Works great on pistol boolits. But I only load .38spl .357mag and .44mag at less than 1200fps. No leading. I lube then size through a Lee push through sizer and then re-lube. I actually let mine dry for about two weeks or so before boxing to allow them to completely dry.

[centershot]

My understanding is the Johnson's paste wax has been discontinued also. I can't find it anywhere. Also have read that Trewax brand paste wax with carnuba can be used as a substitute. Has anyone tried it? If it works I will get some before I run out of Johnson's.

My local Home Depot still sells Johnson's Paste Wax, it's the liquid version that was discontinued some time ago.

[Bigslug]

Another link for adding Johnson's Paste Wax to your ingredients and making 45/45/10: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free You can also buy 45/45/10 from White Label Lubes. Works a little better for me than BLL - YMMV.

[Froogal]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

My goal was to use Alox or Xlox only and to thin it with mineral spirits to make it stretch further.

I was curious if anyone else was using this same method for faster loads.

That is how I have always done it. Probably doesn't make any difference as to the velocity. The Alox is for tumble lubing. It has to be thinned with mineral spirits or you will end up with a sticky mess that never dries.

[gloob]

I've never tried Xlox. But Lee Liquid Alox dries all by itself. Eventually. My first bottle dried up completely solid, in the bottle. I cut it out, and it looks like a piece of hard rubber or plastic.

I took some of that stuff, hard as a hockey puck, and melted it down with beeswax. It dries solid and nontacky as soon as it cools. But with the wax added, you can easily cut chunks out of it with a knife.

I put a little chunk on a batch of bullets in a metal tin, and heat it up with a heat gun. When it starts to melt, start tumbling. Takes just a few minutes. As soon as it cools, they're ready to load. If you reserve the same container for tumble lubing, it takes only a very small amount. I've never even bought LLA. Still using the 2 free bottles I got with Lee bullet sizers, over a decade ago.

[Froogal]

I've never tried Xlox. But Lee Liquid Alox dries all by itself. Eventually. My first bottle dried up completely solid, in the bottle. I cut it out, and it looks like a piece of hard rubber or plastic.

I took some of that stuff, hard as a hockey puck, and melted it down with beeswax. It dries solid and nontacky as soon as it cools. But with the wax added, you can easily cut chunks out of it with a knife.

I put a little chunk on a batch of bullets in a metal tin, and heat it up with a heat gun. When it starts to melt, start tumbling. Takes just a few minutes. As soon as it cools, they're ready to load. If you reserve the same container for tumble lubing, it takes only a very small amount. I've never even bought LLA. Still using the 2 free bottles I got with Lee bullet sizers, over a decade ago.

I had some Lee alox that had dried out. It was not hard yet, but very, very stiff. I was able to reconstitute it with mineral spirits.

[Soundguy]

Agreed... alox WILL eventually cure to a dry solid. I have had toi thin it when it gets hard or starts to get hard in the bottle.. sometimes i add paste wax.. etc.. or other lubes.. beeswax.. mc wax.. etc.. then heat in a double boiler to apply.. and it dries quickly as it cools.

[gumbo333]

Wasn’t Lundmark liquid floor wax substituted for Johnson’s liquid wax in the BLL formula after the Johnsons liquid wax was discontinued ?

[gloob]

Agreed... alox WILL eventually cure to a dry solid. I have had toi thin it when it gets hard or starts to get hard in the bottle.. sometimes i add paste wax.. etc.. or other lubes.. beeswax.. mc wax.. etc.. then heat in a double boiler to apply.. and it dries quickly as it cools.

That's why you're 'posed to heat the liquid alox until all the original solvent in there is gone, before you add the paste wax, or w/e else you're using. That's why it dries so fast, compared to the original formula.

When I made up my next batch lube, I used old dried up Alox that was still pasty rather than hockey puck hard. The bullets would still be slightly tacky after they cooled, because w/e solvent they put in there evaporates really slowly.

I suspect there's little that is special about paste wax. It's surely the fast drying solvent in there that makes it work!?

[gloob]

Using only heat and no solvents, I have found I can screw with the mix in the middle of tumbling. If the lube in the grooves won't fill out and looks like a little bit of crumbly dirt in the bottom of the groove on close inspection, it's from too much Alox and not enough wax.

I will tilt the bullets to one side of the tin to leave a clear spot in the tin. Then add a little chip of wax in the empty spot and heat it until it melts and tumble some more. This fills the grooves more completely and smoothly.

Beeswax has a higher melting point than paraffin. But paraffin is a little slicker when dried. I have never added anything else to my alox.

When you get the right amount of lube in the pan/tin with the right ratio of wax:alox, the lube grooves fill up >75% full, and smooth, and the rest of the bullet is clean and shiny, getting only a very thin coat. Too much lube in the tin, and some lube starts to randomly stick on the nose/base. And even more, you get lube sticking on the sides of the bullet and making them clump together and they look like pieces of rusted bolt dug out of the mud. The best solution for this is to just add more bullets. But if those were the last, then I'll just tilt the tin to get some of the excess lube to stick up higher on the sides of the container, or use a cloth to wipe some of the lube out of the pan after heating it.

They always come out right and pretty, too, if you keep your base ingredients on hand. And a heat gun. And they're dry and ready to load in a minute.

I've never tried lubing regular groove bullets. I heard it works, too. But my TL bullets look like regular lubed bullets, only with smaller grooves. I'll have to try adding some color to the lube, one of these days.

[Martin Luber]

Where does one find Alox these days? I thought it was long gone

[Froogal]

Where does one find Alox these days? I thought it was long gone
Midway U.S.A. has the LEE alox.

[gloob]

I got myself curious enough to try tumble lubing a regular groove bullet, today.

I have one such mold in 40. I bought it once upon a time, after reading TL would work fine. And I tried it, but that was with regular LLA, right out of the bottle. It didn't work great for me. As I recall, the first shot left so much fouling it blocked 30% of the bore on my pistol. But there could have been other factors, too.

Nope. I still can't get TL to fill the groove. There's just a tiny bit that gets in there. Maybe that is good enough, but it's a stark difference from a TL bullet.

[obssd1958]

To answer the original question - Yes, I have run an alox tumble lubed, plain based bullet, through a rifle at speeds close to what you have listed.
A Lyman 375248 loaded unsized in a 38-55 case. The rifle was a Winchester '94 "Boy Scouts of America" commemorative, that had been rebored to 38-55. The powder charge I chose was supposed to only run it up to about 1450 fps. At the range, the chronograph showed just over 1700 fps (possibly due to the 28" barrel). After 4 rounds, the bore was visibly partially blocked by the leading that was occurring near the chamber end, at those velocities. A bore brush got stuck trying to clean all the lead out, and required help to remove from the barrel.
All that to say, go ahead if you like, but there's a good chance that you will be cleaning a LOT of lead out of your bore!

[gloob]

I used a brass tube to clean the lead out my pistol bore. A 28" barrel full of that much lead must have been interesting!

You know, come to think of it, I always TL my rifle bullets twice. Before and after checking and sizing. And it's the second coat that fills the TL grooves so nicely. I wonder if the sizing makes the edges of the grooves sharper, so they "scrape" in the lube?

I tumble lube my unsized 9mm bullets, and the TL grooves fill up, but not as nicely as my rifle bullets.

I didn't have a 40 sizer when I first tried to TL the regular grooved bullets. I'll have to run them through my sizer and see if that doesn't help.


If it doesn't help, my next project might be something to do with these bullets. PB checks, PC, or most likely the old cake cutter.

[Gobeyond]

TL or LLA works good for me around 1600 FPS in my 30-30 170 grs Lee bullet w/ gas check. I like 4227. So easy. Shoots good in my gun.

[Reg]

I just looked. Amazon has Johnson’s Paste Wax in stock. 81.36 per one pound container!!!
Gulp!!!!!!

It can be had with free shipping!

[ChuckJaxFL]

To answer the original question - Yes, I have run an alox tumble lubed, plain based bullet, through a rifle at speeds close to what you have listed.
A Lyman 375248 loaded unsized in a 38-55 case. The rifle was a Winchester '94 "Boy Scouts of America" commemorative, that had been rebored to 38-55. The powder charge I chose was supposed to only run it up to about 1450 fps. At the range, the chronograph showed just over 1700 fps (possibly due to the 28" barrel). After 4 rounds, the bore was visibly partially blocked by the leading that was occurring near the chamber end, at those velocities. A bore brush got stuck trying to clean all the lead out, and required help to remove from the barrel.
All that to say, go ahead if you like, but there's a good chance that you will be cleaning a LOT of lead out of your bore!

I’ve been luckier. I go a lot further than 50/50. I dumped three or four bottles of Alox I got with sizer dies into a mason jar, then rinsed the bottles with mineral spirits. Then I mixed probably 3-4 bottles more mineral spirits with it. All of the spirits evaporate anyways, so I didn’t measure.

I had to shake it like a crying baby forever to get it all mixed, but I’ve been using it ever since.

It’s super thin and runny and easy to apply. It sure beats blowing out a neck vein trying to squeeze a drop of thick goopy straight Alox through that little nozzle. It dries in a couple hours in a Jacksonville, Florida garage.

I shoot a lot of MP359640’s or 358156’s from a 16” Marlin using this method, speed was 1604 on the target below.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230216/36d095a675b23fc5f5b46668ed2b7367.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trapper9260]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

My goal was to use Alox or Xlox only and to thin it with mineral spirits to make it stretch further.

I was curious if anyone else was using this same method for faster loads.

You can also use lighter fluid to thin out the Alox , I use it when I do buckshot for my handguns and rifles light loads. I put it in a small bottle and mix then after I size my buck shot the size I want I put them in the bottle to coat then after put them on a used 22lr tray that have the holes in the plastic and then close the bottle , if it drys out I do not worry about , I just add more lighter fluid to thin it out.

[Gobeyond]

Sorry==Mine is paste wax=mineral sprits-and Lee alox. It's a backup in case I run out of 450 White Label lube.

My 30-30 like alox thick.

[Shiloh]

Mineral spirits with Aloe makes it dry harder. No sticky ness. The success of aloe is using a little. Too much is gummy, and never dies. Too much doesn't improve the lubrication.
I have switched to 45-45-10 lube.
Shiloh

[Gobeyond]

Why is thinner better? I thought it was supposed to seal the bore.
It sounds easy but more time consuming- 3 days for 3 coats.
I just use a little less alox and a little more shaking if I want a thinner coat.
My 50% is half a coat. Shoots well, too.

[rintinglen]

I have used LLA with 10% mineral spirits to 2300 FPS on Lyman 311-291 GC boolits with only minimal leading. I put three light coats, allowing each to dry before the next coat applied. I have used Recluse formula 45/45/10 extensively in the 30-30 in full power loads with RCBS 30-180FN GC bullets as well as 311-041 Lymans. The advice to lightly lube sometimes seen when discussing these lubes for handgun lubes does not cut the mustard when using these liquid lube for loads over ~1500 fps. You need a coat that you can see.

But one of the best uses is on commercial cast bullets, they are often so hard that they lead at comparatively low velocities. The hard lubes applied don't work well. But a light coat of LLA or 45/45/10 can eliminate leading problems.

[maglvr]

I find mineral spirits to dry deathly slow, so switched to lighter fluid a long time ago. Love it.

[Gobeyond]

Used 50/50 one time two coats. 30-30 1650 FPS. Accurate to 200 yds on steel. 170 gr