What The Heck Is The Thread On A British Bisley/Parker-Hale Shotgun Cleaning Rod?!

[Liberty1776]

Bought this superfine 12ga chamber brush on Amazon. $20 (delivered from England, I think.)

308970

The fool thing has no known threadpitch on earth. (That assumes the UK is not part of earth.)

I believe the Bisley/Parker-Hale shotgun cleaning rod thread specs are closely guarded national secrets, kept in James Bond's sock drawer, as I have searched an inordinate amount of time to find the actual thread size, to no avail.

It appeared to have 24 tpi and a 7mm diameter. Try finding a 1/4-24 tap. Hah.

Tried an m8x1.25, which I had in stock. Too loose and will not thread on fully.

So I bought an m7x1.0 tap and 6mm tap drill. No dice. Threads on partially, but then locks up.

I just ordered a 1/4-26 British Standard Fine (BSF) taper tap from Amazon. Here 1/11/23.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BOGT97S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The BSF standard at https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsf says to drill a No 6 hole.

There is a BSC (British Standard Cycle) thread spec, too, just to add to the crazy. https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsc. The link says to drill a No. 3 hole before tapping for the 1/4-26 BSC thread.

And just for fun, there is also a British Standard Brass spec.

BSF, BSC, BSB (fine) and BSW (coarse) all have a 55-degree angle.

Oh, and a BA (British Association) spec, with a 47.5-degree angle. https://newmantools.com/taps/tapsbritish.htm

All four British specs are different.

"Commonly knows [sic] as British Size or Whitworth Thread this was the thread system used by Great Britain and the British Colonies before 1970.
The United Kingdom adopted the Metric system in the 1970's."


Except for shotgun cleaning rods. They kept to the Old Ways, I guess.
I'll keep you posted.

[stubshaft]

:bigsmyl2: Just gotta love those proprietary threads:bigsmyl2:

[Jimmynostars]

9/32 26tpi BSB ( British standard brass?) According to google. A Whitworth thread form with a taller pitch apparently.

Once you know the pitch, you know if it's metric or imp. The OD or ID will fill in the gap for the first part. A good thread gauge esp on finer threads and a mic or vernaiers are helpful. Holding the gauge and rocking it against the thread held up to the light is good.

The OD is probably 4 tho under spec size on something like this. I can also explain working out internal threads if you would like

[john.k]

It probably is a Brass thread,as the traditional wooden shotgun rods have brass ends......all brass threads are 26tpi.

[Liberty1776]

9/32 26tpi BSB ( British standard brass?) According to google. A Whitworth thread form with a taller pitch apparently.



You, sir, appear to be correct. The 1/4-26 BSF was too small a diameter. Close measurement did indeed read out at 9/32" diameter.

So then, how to find a supplier of a 9/32-26 British Standard Brass tap?

Tracy Tools in the UK. 3 British Pounds for the tap. 10 British pounds for the shipping.

But I'm determined to make this stupid British chamber brush operational! Now to wait for who knows how long for the little tap to arrive from the UK.

https://www.tracytools.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=bsb&product_id=1025

[john.k]

There s a strange thing..... ebay and amazon can deliver from UK for pennies,stuff from China comes for 1/2 Cent postage ......yet drop it in the UK mail ,and the fee is US$40........by the way ,Putin has hacked the UK mail ,and until thats sorted ,no mail.

[megasupermagnum]

Crazy thought. Is there any chance it is a british pipe thread?

[TurnipEaterDown]

There s a strange thing..... ebay and amazon can deliver from UK for pennies,stuff from China comes for 1/2 Cent postage ......yet drop it in the UK mail ,and the fee is US$40........by the way ,Putin has hacked the UK mail ,and until thats sorted ,no mail.

At least in the US, using USPS, these outrageously low shipping costs from China to US are...The result of special bargaining between them and the Chinese government. Yep, all the rest of the postage sold gets to foot the bill. Also, the USPS is Forbidden from opening that mail and validating contents. Nice smuggler route. Read the article on this probably 8 years ago that laid it all out. Think it was written by a contributor to National Review that had experience in the field of USPS operations and bargaining. 'Good' stuff...

[longbow]

Are you making a cleaning rod with tapped end to suit the brush threads or tapping the end of an existing cleaning rod?

Being simple and cheap I think I would have gone another route... turn a brass adaptor with a female end drilled to just fit over the threads and with a male end threaded to fit the cleaning rod on the other end then solder that to the threads on the brush. Cheap, easy, re-usable... but you'd need a lathe or have someone make the adaptor for you.

Longbow

[Milky Duck]

Are you making a cleaning rod with tapped end to suit the brush threads or tapping the end of an existing cleaning rod?

Being simple and cheap I think I would have gone another route... turn a brass adaptor with a female end drilled to just fit over the threads and with a male end threaded to fit the cleaning rod on the other end then solder that to the threads on the brush. Cheap, easy, re-usable... but you'd need a lathe or have someone make the adaptor for you.

Longbow

you can buy adapters like this for parker hale cleaning gear.... the older PH rods had a male thread and the accesories a female thread... Ive got a great plastic coated PH rod with .312cal jac built on the end of it..I ground of the high spots many years back so could use it in a .277 bore.... it wears adaptor and does my larger bores....
still have wooden dowel shotgun rods,came in a box for SxS ... MY .224 CENTREFIRES have thier own cleaning rod.
interesting thread...pun intended .

[Liberty1776]

Final Update:

I received my 9/32-26 British Standard Brass (BSB) tap from Tracy Tools in the UK today. (It was delayed for almost a month because the Royal Mail international system had been hacked and was shut down. :hijack: literally.)

It calls for a 6.1mm tap drill, but I used a "B" drill, which is a tiny bit smaller. Interesting that an inch system (9/32") would call out a metric drill, but perhaps that's all they have over there now. There was probably an inch drill called out in the distant past.

Anyway, perfect threads have finally been achieved. My British shotgun brush has a handle now.

[Liberty1776]

Are you making a cleaning rod with tapped end to suit the brush threads or tapping the end of an existing cleaning rod?

I make cleaning rods using empty brass cases Gorilla-glued to various diameters of wood dowel.

This particular rod will be palm-sized, of 3/8" diameter dowel with an old wood drawer pull knob on the palm end for comfort.

I will drill out the primer pocket of a .38 SPL shell and thread it, then glue the shell to the dowel, possibly adding a cross pin if necessary.

The heads of most brass cases have a lot of brass in them and tap easily. 9mm shells work too and are rimless. Obviously these are for larger calibers -- .40 and up. Although I did use a .32ACP or even .25ACP on 1/4" dowels with success.

This being for a 12-ga, a rimmed .38 SPL works great and gives good gluing surface area onto the 3/8" dowel.

[WRideout]

i actually found this brass brush in the trash can at my club range. the threaded end did not fit my cleaning rods, so i drilled out a brass case, and inserted a screw with the right threads. then jb welded the case to the bottom of the brush. it is a perfect fit for my 50 cal inline muzzle loader. redneck engineering at it's finest.

310311

Wayne

[Scrounge]

Bought this superfine 12ga chamber brush on Amazon. $20 (delivered from England, I think.)

308970

The fool thing has no known threadpitch on earth. (That assumes the UK is not part of earth.)

I believe the Bisley/Parker-Hale shotgun cleaning rod thread specs are closely guarded national secrets, kept in James Bond's sock drawer, as I have searched an inordinate amount of time to find the actual thread size, to no avail.

It appeared to have 24 tpi and a 7mm diameter. Try finding a 1/4-24 tap. Hah.

Tried an m8x1.25, which I had in stock. Too loose and will not thread on fully.

So I bought an m7x1.0 tap and 6mm tap drill. No dice. Threads on partially, but then locks up.

I just ordered a 1/4-26 British Standard Fine (BSF) taper tap from Amazon. Here 1/11/23.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BOGT97S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The BSF standard at https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsf says to drill a No 6 hole.

There is a BSC (British Standard Cycle) thread spec, too, just to add to the crazy. https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsc. The link says to drill a No. 3 hole before tapping for the 1/4-26 BSC thread.

And just for fun, there is also a British Standard Brass spec.

BSF, BSC, BSB (fine) and BSW (coarse) all have a 55-degree angle.

Oh, and a BA (British Association) spec, with a 47.5-degree angle. https://newmantools.com/taps/tapsbritish.htm

All four British specs are different.

"Commonly knows [sic] as British Size or Whitworth Thread this was the thread system used by Great Britain and the British Colonies before 1970.
The United Kingdom adopted the Metric system in the 1970's."


Except for shotgun cleaning rods. They kept to the Old Ways, I guess.
I'll keep you posted.

You might want to check the thread profile, too. A LOT of British stuff uses the Whitworth threadform, which is a 55 degree angle, with rounded root and crest according to the BSW standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth

Bill

[Liberty1776]

You might want to check the thread profile, too. A LOT of British stuff uses the Whitworth threadform, which is a 55 degree angle, with rounded root and crest according to the BSW standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth

Bill


Yep. Turns out the Bisley Parker Hale brush is a modified Whitworth thread, but for Brass, called British Standard Brass, which all have 26 threads per inch (TPI) regardless of diameter.

This particular thread was 9/32-26, and screwed on wonderfully, IF you get the BSB tap.

[uscra112]

Well, just so you know, the Whitworth standards predate the American standards by a very large margin, so they get priority. Whitworth even predates the invention of the quick-change feed gearbox for lathes. Get with it, you nasty colonials!

[Liberty1776]

i actually found this brass brush in the trash can at my club range. the threaded end did not fit my cleaning rods, so i drilled out a brass case, and inserted a screw with the right threads. then jb welded the case to the bottom of the brush. it is a perfect fit for my 50 cal inline muzzle loader. redneck engineering at it's finest.

310311

Wayne

This is, by far, the best solution. I spent many bucks and lots of time trying to find the correct tap.

Should have just changed the thread to standard 5/16" Shotgun like you did here.

[TNsailorman]

I threw away a new Parker Hale brush because it would not fit my rods. Wayne's solution showed godd old American inguinity and I will keep this in mind for the future. james

[zzbobw]

As far as I know, English shotgun brush thread standard has been 9/32 - 26 tpi BSB and American shotgun rods utilize 5/16 - 27 tpi thread. You can buy the taps and dies for 5/16 - 27 tpi on Ebay for a few bucks from China and brushes and rods utilizing the two threads will usually screw together.

[BigEyeBob]

You, sir, appear to be correct. The 1/4-26 BSF was too small a diameter. Close measurement did indeed read out at 9/32" diameter.

So then, how to find a supplier of a 9/32-26 British Standard Brass tap?

Tracy Tools in the UK. 3 British Pounds for the tap. 10 British pounds for the shipping.

But I'm determined to make this stupid British chamber brush operational! Now to wait for who knows how long for the little tap to arrive from the UK.

https://www.tracytools.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=bsb&product_id=1025

Try Victory tools in the US