Looking for help or advice on a 45 ACP bear round to load!

[tayous1]

I'm going to a national park next month that does have bears and mountain lions. I'm not expecting to meet any of them but thought that I might want to look into a good round.

I'm looking more for the semi-auto over-wheel gun for a few reasons. One lighter to have to carry. Two are easier to reload and can carry more ammo. Have a 45 LC Redhawk and I'm sure it's gun enough for the job. Only thing is to have and carry more ammo.

Yes, a 10mm or 460 Rowland would be best but I'm dealing with the cards I have. Also, have you seen the cost of 45LC ammo? Gone down to $0.60 per round for cowboy rounds.

I know double-tap makes a 255gr 45ACP if anything I would like to get something near that or better! Thanks for the advice and help!

[Jedman]

I don’t think you would be allowed to carry a gun in a National Park ?

I spoke to soon ! I searched it and most will allow carrying a firearm if it doesn’t violate state or federal laws, some require licenses and permits.

Jedman

[Three44s]

My advice is to carry the Redhawk with heavy custom loads.

In public areas pack the .45 acp, knee cap someone and out run them.

Three44s

[oger]

Roland barrel and springs.

[Chena]

Lots of timed practice at varying distances under stress is as important as the gun and ammunition. Large buff colored paper targets with a full scale bear outline drawn face-on are a good practice medium. If you have the room, these can be placed offset at 25, 15, and 7 yards to represent a charging animal. No bright target circles, just the bear face drawn in black as the index area. Once after I had qualified our trainer told me that my only fault was firing too fast. I told him that, having been charged a couple of times, nothing seemed too fast.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd go with the .45Colt in the Ruger.

Do a quick search for 'bear hunting with .45Colt'.
There's lots of discussion on it in various forum archives that will pop up.

Those guys are talking real heavy bullets right up there near max. like 250-300 grain cast running along about 1300fps.

[Larry Gibson]

A hard cast Lee 230 gr TC bullet over 6 gr Unique or 8.5 gr Blue Dot to 900 fps in 5" barrel.

[Thumbcocker]

There are threads and articles where some have loaded the 255 Keith boolit in .45 acp. I have never tried it.

[truckjohn]

I would call the rangers handling that specific national park and ask them. More likely unless it is some place like Alaska or Yellowstone you would never even see a bear. Problems are often nuisance pests attracted by food. Stray cats and dogs, raccoons, opossum, foxes.

Ok, so say you talk to them and they say it is a real problem...

Make sure it is legal to carry in that specific park/state. Also make sure that having a gun doesn't constitute "Hunting." For example, the state in question may require a concealed carry license.

Given that....

A gun is of absolutely no use if you don't have it available. That means a comfortable carry holster, not wallowing in the bottom of a backpack or locked in your trunk. Weight is a premium. That Desert Eagle or giant Dan Wesson 500 may sound great, until you strap a boat anchor to your hip.

Say you pick a rifle or shotgun to carry... If it rubs hot spots all over your back or is a stupidly heavy pig, you'll stow it in the trunk and won't have it with you.

Gun wise...

If you are truly worried about a real threat from a bear, a shotgun full of slugs/buckshot is your best bet. The downside is heavy/bulky. A lever action centerfire rifle with appropriate ammo would do the trick too. Downside is the same.

If you want a pistol... Go full power big caliber pistols. 45 ACP, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 10mm mag. I would go with something with a history of police/military carry. Those fellows have worked out real life duty carry issues.

Ammo wise - factory full power jacketed ball. Bears are meaty with heavy bones and thick hide. You need deep penetration.

[Texas by God]

A hard cast Lee 230 gr TC bullet over 6 gr Unique or 8.5 gr Blue Dot to 900 fps in 5" barrel.

Just last week, I shot one of the Lee 230TC bullets into lined up 1 gallon milk jugs filled with water. 5 jugs did not stop it and the bullet only veered off an inch or two from path between jugs #1 and #5.
I’d carry that load or the Hornady FMJ 230 gr TC for penetration purposes.
I’ve never shot a bear, but I’ve killed feral hogs and angry cattle with smaller handguns. Not comparing those to a bear; just stating things.


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[Doughty]

tayous1, What specific .45 acp firearm are you going to be using? Are you going to be reloading or using factory ammo?

[Beerd]

I'm going to a national park next month that does have bears and mountain lions. I'm not expecting to meet any of them but thought that I might want to look into a good round.



I would call the rangers handling that specific national park and ask them. More likely unless it is some place like Alaska or Yellowstone you would never even see a bear. Problems are often nuisance pests attracted by food. Stray cats and dogs, raccoons, opossum, foxes.


next month is February. Won't most Alaska & Yellowstone bears be sleeping?
..

[HWooldridge]

Buffalo Bore makes some high performance 45 ACP ammo - might have a look at their website.

And everybody is built differently but I have always preferred a shoulder holster for large handguns. Relatively easy to hide under a jacket and accessible in most circumstances. Although a .45 Auto would not be my first choice for bear country, I would not feel under gunned with a 1911 platform and some hot loads.

[LeonardC]

That Desert Eagle or giant Dan Wesson 500 may sound great, until you strap a boat anchor to your hip.


More information on the "giant Dan Wesson 500" please!

[M-Tecs]

The bears will be hibernating. For mountain lions a good hollow point will be fine.

[charlie b]

I bought a box of 45acp +P and .357mag outdoor loads from Buffalo Bore for field duty back when I needed something (not grizzly).

But, I'd practice a LOT before I'd trust myself to shoot straight when confronted by a charging bear. I'd also read up on the critical kill spots from different angles. Don't want to hit it several times and have no effect. FWIW, I tried a target moving toward me at speed one day many years ago, when I was still a decent pistol shooter. Very difficult to draw and hit a bouncing target.

[tayous1]

I'm going to Big Bend National park. I was in law enforcement as a Ranger and was there for a few years!

Most of the Rangers who were there when I left did not know the land past the paved highways! That's the truth. Maybe it's changed since 2019?

I was a roving Ranger they sent me to walk all the trails and talk with people and find infractions of the law.

I'm taking the wife to a spot majority of people don't know about or care to see! 17 miles on an off-road 4x4 trail that takes an hour to get to is not very appealing to most people out there!

During my time I have come across 9 bears, 12 mountain lions, several Bull Elk, and also things I can't explain and a firearm will do nothing to it at the time even with an M4 with full auto I did not want to shoot what I saw.

Bears might be hibernating but with the messed up weather, we have had highs of 60+ and lows maybe 30 degrees a little lower but when the day gets to 75 degrees or more like it's Spring I don't trust they're asleep. Better safe than sorry!

I cast and load my rifle bear round for my 45LC 325 gr Solid flat point it says in the manual at 1,200 to 1,300 fps makes a factory 44 mag feel like a 9mm. It was a load built for Alaska bear I'm sure the ones around me are 1/4 the size still a 130-400 lbs bear is not a force you want to mess with. The same goes for a mountain lion!

Also did not need the full auto M4 it was issued to because I'm a combat veteran and a machine gunner. So they thought why not issue this to me? So useless told them to sell the sear and buy a good LaRue trigger for everyone. I was told no and that a good or decent trigger does not make a better shooter by them. I scored a 280 with the M4 military trigger not bad yet when challenged I shoot a perfect 300 with my AR-15' mostly stock but the LaRue trigger.

When I say stock think of cheap home build barrel and upper nothing to write home about!

[JimB..]

Sounds like you’re comfortable with an AR, so why even mess with a pistol?

[HWooldridge]

So far as I know, Big Bend only has black bears and fairly small ones at that (although they won’t be hibernating). I’ve been there several times and my son went to college in Alpine for three years and rode much of that area on horseback. Personally, I’d be more worried about two legged varmints than the ones which walk on all four. 45 ACP should be plenty for anything you encounter.

[badwolf]

Lostriverammocompany.com has a hard cast bear load for 45 acp

[Larry Gibson]

Like I said; "A hard cast Lee 230 gr TC bullet over 6 gr Unique or 8.5 gr Blue Dot to 900 fps in 5" barrel."

Be good for those BBs and then two legged varmints also.......

[MUSTANG]

^ + 1 ^

Been working since John Moses Browning designed it, and fielding started in 1911 with US Military. I listen to many in Northwest Montana claim that a 10mm is the "Least" they feel comfortable with; but simply tell them I am quite comfortable with the 1911 on my hip when in the field or out cutting firewood. (4 Feet of snow on the ground in back yard and 14 degrees outside this morning - so I am not worried about the Bear and Mountain Lions currently.

[umwminer]

Keith 452424 50/50 WW-pb +a bit of tin over 4.8 Universal Clays is a great round imho . Feeds flawlessly in all of my .45autos . Make sure that the big fat nose doesn’t engage the slide release nub on the inside of the frame ( that the mag follower bumps up to lock the slide on a empty mag) . If I were to carry a 45auto for bear protection that would be my load . Cats aint hard to kill .

[DougGuy]

You were a ranger there, know the place inside and out, documented all previous sightings, and you are asking US for ammo advice for 45 ACP? I don't get it.

[RJM52]

"During my time I have come across 9 bears, 12 mountain lions, several Bull Elk, and also things I can't explain and a firearm will do nothing to it at the time even with an M4 with full auto I did not want to shoot what I saw."...yea, .45s don't do real well against Skinwalkers...

I'd go with Larry's suggestion if you are reloading and plan on using just a standard .45 ACP. Personally I would beef up your gun with a flat bottom firing pin stop and add a couple of pounds to the main and recoil springs and go .45 Super...a 250 at 1050 will solve most problems and isn't bad to shoot.

In the reading I've done it seems that it's hits on target that count not what you hit them with...

Have a nice walk...Bob

[Doughty]

I've been doing some testing with this. Very promising so far.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-loads-for-the-45-acp/99214

[kingrj]

6.5 grains of PowerPistol with a Lee 452-255 RF grain cast flat nosed255 grain bullet will give you a little over 900 fps in the .45acp...this is a +P load. I shoot the same bullet in my heavy duty S&W 4506 to 1050 fps with 8 grains of Longshot..this is a .45 Super load. .45 Super loads will NOT blow up a full sized heavy duty .45acp like a 1911 even if you do nothing to them. However gun damage can occur when and if you shoot hundereds of rounds of Super through a normal .45acp.. But in the case of possibly being eaten by a bear..a magazine full of Supers will only hurt the bear...

[Rapier]

I feel better with low recoiling loads for faster, more accurate follow up shots. I would look for some WST powder and 200s to 230s. WST is the replacement for 452AA, burns clean and produces a push recoil, good for recovery in a self defense situation. The 45 ACP needs little help by any special bullets. It does not really expand well due to the regular velocity, I developed a load for my long slide with a revolver SWC, Lyman cast bullet, cuts a clean 45 cal hole.

[bigboredad]

If you decide to go the 45 super route I would add a barrel bushing comp. From Wilson combat. They work way better than most people think rhey do and allow fir a flatter shooting gun. You can get them from midway USA or Wilson and are around 85 bucks and way worth it.

If it was me I'd set a up a 1911 with for the super round called outdoorsman at Buffalo bore and double tap calls them smc.

I own and love to shoot a bfr in 475 Limbaugh but it is heavy only holds 5 and slow to reload and a 45 super checks all the boxes for me. Have fun. Ymmv

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[GregLaROCHE]

I’d go for a 44mag with a decent length barrel. Old habits fade slowly.

[DougGuy]

I feel better with low recoiling loads for faster, more accurate follow up shots. I would look for some WST powder and 200s to 230s. WST is the replacement for 452AA, burns clean and produces a push recoil, good for recovery in a self defense situation. The 45 ACP needs little help by any special bullets. It does not really expand well due to the regular velocity, I developed a load for my long slide with a revolver SWC, Lyman cast bullet, cuts a clean 45 cal hole.

Bear loads and low recoil do not belong in the same paragraph. Expansion is probably the WORST thing that could happen when you shoot a dangerous bear charging you. Generally the bigger the critter, the more penetration you will want. You get critter stopping penetration from velocity, boolit weight, and a non-expanding boolit.

If I had to shoot something bigger than an Eastern Carolina whitetail I would want a hard shooting load. Physics. All about the physics. There is NO free ride. Every action causes an equal but opposite reaction. If it rocks your wrist, it will be a very effective protector if you can hit where you intend to hit.

[725]

I have loaded 260 grain Speer JHP bullets in the .45 ACP for bear. Not for hunting but more for running away from. Read the info in the Speer manual and it will describe the limited use of .45 Colt bullets in the .45 ACP. I loaded a bunch to test out before venturing into the wild and I am satisfied that they would work without any undue stress on the frame / slide. Actually comfortable to shoot and very accurate.

[Beaverhunter2]

I use a Lee 252SWC (260gr PC and sized to .452") in 45ACP with 5gr of Unique (data from an old Speer manual for the 260gr JSP) . I'm using it in an HK USP45 (+P continuous use rated). I get just under 800fps and that SWC is a flying hammer. I carry it when I'm in the woods because it will penetrate anything I hit with it, it's accurate, and the SWC design will make a large wound channel. If your pistol isn't rated for continuous +P I wouldn't use it for your plinking load. I use a 230gr cast TC for practice with 5.3gr Bullseye (the classic 45ACP 230gr Ball load) and the same load with a 230gr XTP if the only predators I expect to meet are two-legged. All 3 loads shoot the same POI with my pistol. (How lucky can a guy get!? Lol)

[huntinlever]

I’d go for a 44mag with a decent length barrel. Old habits fade slowly.

+1. For me that was the SS Super Blackhawk 5.5" .44 loaded hot, and lots of shooting. No idea how I'd perform on a bear charging 30 mpg, but least I'd know it was coming.

Edit: bear charging 30 MPH, not MPG.:lol:

[HWooldridge]

+1. For me that was the SS Super Blackhawk 5.5" .44 loaded hot, and lots of shooting. No idea how I'd perform on a bear charging 30 mpg, but least I'd know it was coming.

Edit: bear charging 30 MPH, not MPG.:lol:

Might be a hybrid bear - and he really does get 30 MPG...

[huntinlever]

might be a hybrid bear - and he really does get 30 mpg...

lol!

[MUSTANG]

I use a Lee 252SWC (260gr PC and sized to .452") in 45ACP with 5gr of Unique (data from an old Speer manual for the 260gr JSP) . I'm using it in an HK USP45 (+P continuous use rated). I get just under 800fps and that SWC is a flying hammer. I carry it when I'm in the woods because it will penetrate anything I hit with it, it's accurate, and the SWC design will make a large wound channel. If your pistol isn't rated for continuous +P I wouldn't use it for your plinking load. I use a 230gr cast TC for practice with 5.3gr Bullseye (the classic 45ACP 230gr Ball load) and the same load with a 230gr XTP if the only predators I expect to meet are two-legged. All 3 loads shoot the same POI with my pistol. (How lucky can a guy get!? Lol)

Strange - 30 years ago I bought a surplus Smith & Wesson M1917/1937 Brazilian Contract .45ACP revolver; used that same boolit and powder charge in .45ACP cases. It was a hammering and accurate round. May think about dragging that pistol out of the back of the safe and carry it in the field with that load again. Thanks for reminding me.

[oldsalt444]

If you're serious about bears getting you, then I would opt for a revolver over a semiauto. If a bear is close enough to be a threat and can run at you at 30 mph, then the last thing you need is a jam. So if you happen to limp wrist it, you've assured yourself a jam and bingo, you're dead. Plus there won't be any time for reloading another mag anyway. Revolvers are incredibly reliable, much more so than a semi. It can take a while to get a hot .45 load to feed reliably in a semi - juggling loads and springs to match up. If you have time for that, then go for it. Revolvers have no safeties to worry about, slides to rack or mags to drop - just yank that trigger. Cops relied on them for decades.

Just my $.02

[charlie b]

And now cops have relied on semi-autos for decades.

A semi takes little effort to run right. Even my wife's light commander has not jammed in over 10 years of shooting, from medium to heavy loads. The striker fired ones have no safety to worry about and nothing to snag You will get at least one round off. A revolver has to be cocked, either by hand or with the trigger. to get off a shot. Don't get me wrong, I like revolvers, just the reliability thing is getting a bit old. And, yes, I've had quite a few malfunctions with revolvers. Mostly ammo related, but, a couple were the pistol. And, yes, I will bet my life on either platform.

[MT Gianni]

In the early 90's a man outside Evaro, MT heard some noises outside. They woke him up and he chased a grizzly bear off of his front porch. It was about 1:30 AM. 30 minutes later the noises were back and the crash of the bear entering his home got to him before he could scare it away. He killed the bear with 7 rounds of 45 ACP 185 JHP in his living room. Obviously not a charging bear or an enraged sow. Important to remember that the first rule in a gun fight is to have a gun.

[Larry Gibson]

I've killed two BBs with the 45 ACP cartidge using a Combat Commander and a M1911 Gvmt Model. Used the old RN Hornady 185 over 7.5 gr Unique in the Commander and the Speer 200 JHP "FAT" bullet over the same 7.5 gr Unique.

[Good Cheer]

Used to work with a guy that took on a brown with a pen knife.

[LeonardC]

I was visiting one of our part time neighbors and he was telling me about hunting deer on Kodiak Island. I leaned to the side and looked at his butt...he gave me a strange look and I said I was just checking to see where the bears chewed up his butt. He says you must be thinking of my father...I gave him a strange look. He told me his father has the only Alaska F&G confirmed defense against a brown bear with a knife.

[50target]

I was visiting one of our part time neighbors and he was telling me about hunting deer on Kodiak Island. I leaned to the side and looked at his butt...he gave me a strange look and I said I was just checking to see where the bears chewed up his butt. He says you must be thinking of my father...I gave him a strange look. He told me his father has the only Alaska F&G confirmed defense against a brown bear with a knife.


That fella's Daddy is someone I would want to talk to before I ventured into bear country. That must have been a hell of an experience. After surviving that it must be kinda hard for anything else to really bother you.

[Larry Gibson]

I guess some think BBs (Black Bears), like deer and pigs, now wear body armor. Wasn't too long ago a woman back east stopped a BB with a 38 SPL snubbie. Guess the BB forgot to gear up that morning......

[ddixie884]

I guess some think BBs (Black Bears), like deer and pigs, now wear body armor. Wasn't too long ago a woman back east stopped a BB with a 38 SPL snubbie. Guess the BB forgot to gear up that morning......

Ha Ha Ha............

[AlaskaMike]

Black bear and brown bear are two very different animals. Sort of like the difference between a Chihuahua and a Rottweiler.

When I go to my cabin I frequently carry either a 1911 or Sig P220 in .45. The load is a 210 grain SWC from a Lee group buy we did many years ago (basically a 452423 minus the crimp groove and middle band) over 7.5 grains of Power Pistol.

[StrawHat]

Strange - 30 years ago I bought a surplus Smith & Wesson M1917/1937 Brazilian Contract .45ACP revolver; used that same boolit and powder charge in .45ACP cases. It was a hammering and accurate round. May think about dragging that pistol out of the back of the safe and carry it in the field with that load again. Thanks for reminding me.

One of the revolvers I have used for edc is a 4” barreled Brazilian 1917. My choice of loads for it ( and all my ACP revolvers) is the SAECO 453 over a hardball dose of powder. The 453 is a 240 grain full wadcutter so plenty of bearing length and an impressive meplat. A very accurate and hard hitting load. I also use the group buy 452423 boolit with the same doses of powder.

Kevin

[missionary5155]

Now that sounds like a good "repel boarders" load also.

[StrawHat]

I'm going to a national park next month that does have bears and mountain lions. I'm not expecting to meet any of them but thought that I might want to look into a good round.

I'm looking more for the semi-auto over-wheel gun for a few reasons. One lighter to have to carry. Two are easier to reload and can carry more ammo. Have a 45 LC Redhawk and I'm sure it's gun enough for the job. Only thing is to have and carry more ammo.

Yes, a 10mm or 460 Rowland would be best but I'm dealing with the cards I have. Also, have you seen the cost of 45LC ammo? Gone down to $0.60 per round for cowboy rounds.

I know double-tap makes a 255gr 45ACP if anything I would like to get something near that or better! Thanks for the advice and help!

In 1982 Gun Digest published “The 45 Auto Handbook”. It contained an article on bear stomper loads including one that took a 300 grain bullet up to 800 fps from a 1911.

See if you can find that publication.

Kevin

[ChuckS1]

All good advice, but if you’re out with someone, all you need is a .22. Shoot your buddy in the leg and then run.

[Doughty]

ChuckS1. Reminds me of the old question, "Which is faster; running mad or running scared?" What you suggest might cause your buddy to do both at the same time. :bigsmyl2:

[softpoint]

I load the 452460 Lyman 200 gr. SWC over 8.3 grains of Longshot in .45 Super brass. I shoot that load in 2 different guns, a 1911 with just a recoil spring change and on of the spring-loaded guide rods. This gun will also reliably shoot standard .45ACP set up like this. I also have a 5.25 Match Springfield XD that I shoot this load in. It's accurate, high capacity, and I have put a Powder River trigger kit in it. That handload is probably as good as anything you can buy for the .45 for large animals.