Brownells

[hornetguy]

I just now un-subscribed from Brownells... maybe it's just me, I don't know.
I DO know that Brownells used to be THE place to go for many parts, and especially gunsmithing "stuff". They were considered the elite place to go... if nobody else in the world had it, Brownells would, or they could get it for you.

The past few years, as I've checked their website for various things, it seems they have turned into less and less of a specialty kind of place, and more of a Wal-Mart kind of site, if that makes sense.

I was looking for a replacement taller front sight blade for my Ruger Blackhawk... the pinned in type. My searches on Brownells site didn't locate what I needed. I actually googled it, and followed a link to Brownells to find the sight. All is good so far. I tried to find dimensions on this sight blade, to make sure I wasn't buying the exact same blade that was on my Blackhawk.... no joy. It was late, so I planned to continue the search the next day.
Next day, had an email from Brownells urging me to "give it another look, don't leave it hanging".... so I responded to the email asking for the height.... even attached a pic of the sight I had edited to show them the exact dimension I wanted.
Crickets.
Next day, got another email urging me to buy the sight.
Yesterday I got 3 sales/promotional emails from Brownells.... nothing about my front sight issues.

I didn't have time yesterday to call, so I called today. Chose the #3 option, technical support, and got a recording saying I had reached the Berger bullets help desk, and I should leave a message.... ?? .... I started to leave a message, and it instantly replayed the recording back to me.

Cannot get a response to an email, cannot get a live person on the phone.... things have definitely gone downhill in the past 15-20 years at THE place for gunsmithing tools and parts.... time marches on, I suppose.

[deltaenterprizes]

Considering the possible weather conditions and the holidays I would try again next week sometime.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've done business with Brownell's since 1982, and would give them about a 9.5 star rating (out of a possible 10). No person or company gets it right 100% of the time. There have been changes, but like all companies I think they've been forced to adapt to the times. I can remember when they carried almost no gun specific parts like the sight blade you are seeking at all. They were 95% gunsmithing supply oriented. If I have a complaint at all it's that they're pretty expensive.

DG

[hornetguy]

Yes, this time of year is not the best for "shopping".... but, still.....

The sight itself isn't bad... about $12.... I just didn't want to purchase the same thing I already have. I imagine a $12 risk isn't the worst thing that could happen.
It's just frustrating, trying for "details" and getting "would you like fries with that"....

[Hannibal]

I don't have any inside information on Brownells, but I do encounter the same types of problems that you're describing when dealing with the majority of companies.

I think it can be traced to the overall 'dumbing down' of society and the labor force. Too many people sitting on the couch watching TicToc and getting welfare checks for doing so.

People with specific knowledge eventually retire for one reason or another and take decades of knowledge and experience with them. The younger generations seem to think they can watch a video on YouTube and repeat anything they see, so they're not interested in actually learning a skilled trade.

One day, for one reason or another the internet will cease to function. It will be interesting times because few people actually know how to problem solve and fix anything anymore. But it's obvious that a whole bunch know how to loot and riot.

[nicholst55]

I've been dealing with Brownells since the mid to late '70s, and even toured their location once and met Frank and Bob Brownell. I discussed a few things by phone and snail-mail with Frank, back in the early 80s. Anyhow, Brownells has definitely evolved over the years. Frank stated that there were some items in their catalog that he would never drop, regardless of low sales. His reasoning was that those items were too difficult for people to locate (back before the Internet). Those items have been gone for many years. One example was a high quality leather hole punch. Maybe not so difficult to find now, but back then, it was. The current president of the corporation, Pete Brownell, is essentially a bean-counter IMHO. If a product doesn't meet sales expectations, it's quickly dropped from their lineup. I ordered a paper catalog this year, for the first time in many years. Leafing through it, I saw several items that interested me so I looked them up online. I hate having stuff back ordered, and I wanted to check in-stock status. Many of these items weren't even listed online! So apparently, between the time that the catalog was printed and when I received it, those items were dropped from inventory! Kinda makes me wonder why they bother to print a 'Big Book' at all. Brownells used to exude a mom-n-pop store atmosphere, but not any more. I guess they do what they have to do to turn a profit, but they have definitely become a big business, with all that the title implies.

[hornetguy]

I've been dealing with Brownells since the mid to late '70s, and even toured their location once and met Frank and Bob Brownell. I discussed a few things by phone and snail-mail with Frank, back in the early 80s. Anyhow, Brownells has definitely evolved over the years. Frank stated that there were some items in their catalog that he would never drop, regardless of low sales. His reasoning was that those items were too difficult for people to locate (back before the Internet). Those items have been gone for many years. One example was a high quality leather hole punch. Maybe not so difficult to find now, but back then, it was. The current president of the corporation, Pete Brownell, is essentially a bean-counter IMHO. If a product doesn't meet sales expectations, it's quickly dropped from their lineup. I ordered a paper catalog this year, for the first time in many years. Leafing through it, I saw several items that interested me so I looked them up online. I hate having stuff back ordered, and I wanted to check in-stock status. Many of these items weren't even listed online! So apparently, between the time that the catalog was printed and when I received it, those items were dropped from inventory! Kinda makes me wonder why they bother to print a 'Big Book' at all. Brownells used to exude a mom-n-pop store atmosphere, but not any more. I guess they do what they have to do to turn a profit, but they have definitely become a big business, with all that the title implies.

Yes, that is exactly the feeling I get when trying to deal with them.
I, too started with them during the "catalog" years... mid 70's.... I suppose that's why this disappoints me somewhat, because I remember what they were like "back then"..... I suppose that I have become, as I suspected, an official curmudgeon....
I need to practice the snarl for when I state "get off my lawn!"....

[hornetguy]

I don't have any inside information on Brownells, but I do encounter the same types of problems that you're describing when dealing with the majority of companies.

I think it can be traced to the overall 'dumbing down' of society and the labor force. Too many people sitting on the couch watching TicToc and getting welfare checks for doing so.

People with specific knowledge eventually retire for one reason or another and take decades of knowledge and experience with them. The younger generations seem to think they can watch a video on YouTube and repeat anything they see, so they're not interested in actually learning a skilled trade.

One day, for one reason or another the internet will cease to function. It will be interesting times because few people actually know how to problem solve and fix anything anymore. But it's obvious that a whole bunch know how to loot and riot.

Yes... I couldn't agree more.

[Winger Ed.]

There is college business classes on and about what typically happens when a family business 'passes the torch' to the next generation.

More often than not, it doesn't end well.

[BLAHUT]

I don't have any inside information on Brownells, but I do encounter the same types of problems that you're describing when dealing with the majority of companies.

I think it can be traced to the overall 'dumbing down' of society and the labor force. Too many people sitting on the couch watching TicToc and getting welfare checks for doing so.

People with specific knowledge eventually retire for one reason or another and take decades of knowledge and experience with them. The younger generations seem to think they can watch a video on YouTube and repeat anything they see, so they're not interested in actually learning a skilled trade.

One day, for one reason or another the internet will cease to function. It will be interesting times because few people actually know how to problem solve and fix anything anymore. But it's obvious that a whole bunch know how to loot and riot.

Fix the old stuff ? I have made a good living because people have lost the knowledge or the will to fix the old stuff;
I. E. Replace a wall outlet / light switch, patch a hole in drywall ect....
We now live to the throwaway time, from anything to people, almost nothing is made to last.
Comon sense is not taught at home and is not stocked in collage book stores...
Most parents and defiantly most students do not know how to read, write, add and subtract, are willing to watch TicToc or YouTube and become instant masters of any subject.
I teach my kids and grandkids to think.........

[MUSTANG]

You are being subjected to the "Artificial Intelligence" of the website. The advertising community has focused on capturing your web viewing; running it through some of the "Profile Tables" they create on each customer; and then the logical code determines whether to send a "Follow Up E-mail" on your views. This gets even more detailed if you select to "Check a Box" while on the web page or send and e-mail (Which is also analyzed by computer checking your Customer Profile Tables.

These reaction result in your receiving an e-mail encouraging you to think about buying the item or another item - thus improving sales and theoretically profits. Has nothing to do with "CUSTOMER SERVICE?SUPPORT". Brownells has simply hired Web Page and Data Base services that are following Industry Practices. I quite often get the same from Home Depot, Lowes, and other Large Corporate web sites.

[Gtek]

No country for old men, it irritates the **** out of me everyday! How long do you think and what will the lifespan of the Covid excuse be? How many large company stories have you heard with the manufacturing plant fire scenario? If one were to let their black helicopter out one might think all these large companies are having Italian kitchen fires to use insurance money to help upgrade plant infrastructure to meet new requirements??? Just left hardware store and ask for an 1/8" NPT male Hex ID pipe plug, he may have thought I was speaking in Mandarin! Oh, and they did not have it.

[405grain]

It isn't just Brownell's. All of the issues that people are experiencing are subject to the "Law of Diminishing Quality". It goes like this: Anything that works really well will be discontinued. This applies to everything from spaceships to toothpaste. Our modern whiz-bang electronic age has simply accelerated the process.

[challenger_i]

One thing to bear in mind, before abandoning all hope: In many instances I have found an item not to be in the "online" venue, but, having a hard catalogue in hand and a part or item number, the merchant does have it in stock. Online lists are a pain to set up and maintain, so some items do not make the list.

Just food for thought.

[slim1836]

Yes, this time of year is not the best for "shopping".... but, still.....

The sight itself isn't bad... about $12.... I just didn't want to purchase the same thing I already have. I imagine a $12 risk isn't the worst thing that could happen.
It's just frustrating, trying for "details" and getting "would you like fries with that"....

Please excuse my ignorance, but did you first check with Ruger? Just wondering as I didn't see where you had. Many times, aftermarket parts just aren't identical no matter where you shop.

Slim

[hornetguy]

Please excuse my ignorance, but did you first check with Ruger? Just wondering as I didn't see where you had. Many times, aftermarket parts just aren't identical no matter where you shop.

Slim

Thanks for asking, but, no... I have not checked with Ruger yet. I tried to search their website, but didn't find "parts". I found services, but no parts. I might call them tomorrow.
That is one of the issues, though.... getting a real, genuine human being to talk to. I'm generally fairly literate, and can explain to a human what it is I'm needing/wanting, etc...
After failing at getting a response to an email at Brownells, I tried calling them..... got a voicemail system that didn't work.

It's not the end of the world.... I can always build up mine with JB weld, and file it down to the height I need...... Might not look "factory", but I've always been a "form follows function" kind of guy. I would prefer it to look "right", but I'm ok with shade tree mechanic stuff, also, if it works.

I might even get industrious, and just home-machine my own sight, using the original as a pattern.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been dealing with Brownell's since '68. Never had a problem and always had excellent service. No, they don't have everything but then I don't expect them too. I also expect to pay for what I order. Yes shipping & handleing can beexpensive and double or tripple the price of small parts/items. I understand that Brownell's is a business and not there to do me favors.

As to the emails, I always uncheck the "subscribe" box so I don't get them in the first place. The emails are a sign of the times and necessary to be competitive in todays business world. No, I don't like it either but it's the way it is.

[hornetguy]

I've been dealing with Brownell's since '68. Never had a problem and always had excellent service. No, they don't have everything but then I don't expect them too. I also expect to pay for what I order. Yes shipping & handleing can beexpensive and double or tripple the price of small parts/items. I understand that Brownell's is a business and not there to do me favors.

As to the emails, I always uncheck the "subscribe" box so I don't get them in the first place. The emails are a sign of the times and necessary to be competitive in todays business world. No, I don't like it either but it's the way it is.

You're a couple or three years ahead of me. I've dealt with them since the early 70's.... I really enjoyed getting a new catalog from them... it was like "almost Chrismas".
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well... I have no problem with getting emails and reminders from them.... what frustrated me was the complete lack of "response" when I tried to answer them....
I believe that it really IS a sign of the times, perhaps the speed and ease of the interweb has made companies lazy in their handling of questions/concerns...
All I wanted to know, before ordering the part, was one dimension. I planned to buy the part, if it was the correct one. I realize that likely a large part of my issue was that I was trying to find out during the holidays, so here I am a week later still wanting to get that dimension before ordering.
It's not a huge deal, either way.... just another "first world problem" and a demonstration of the way that companies can change, and not always for the better.
I love ordering online... I'm spoiled to the rapid response... back in the 70's it would have been either call them on the phone and discuss it and pay with a credit card, or send a letter (there's a reason they call it snail-mail) with cash or money order.

[ScrapMetal]

Hornetguy, are you sure you sent your question to the correct email address? You stated that you "responded" to a marketing email that they had sent. Chances are that email is only used for sending out marketing material and not for answering questions. If you go to their contact page https://www.brownells.com/aspx/general/contact_us.aspx there are options to do a "live chat" or the phone number for tech support. They also have a form to fill out that you can use to contact tech support.

Give that a try and see if you don't have a better result.

Best regards,

-Ron

[William Yanda]

You are being subjected to the "Artificial Intelligence" of the website. The advertising community has focused on capturing your web viewing; running it through some of the "Profile Tables" they create on each customer; and then the logical code determines whether to send a "Follow Up E-mail" on your views. This gets even more detailed if you select to "Check a Box" while on the web page or send and e-mail (Which is also analyzed by computer checking your Customer Profile Tables.

These reaction result in your receiving an e-mail encouraging you to think about buying the item or another item - thus improving sales and theoretically profits. Has nothing to do with "CUSTOMER SERVICE?SUPPORT". Brownells has simply hired Web Page and Data Base services that are following Industry Practices. I quite often get the same from Home Depot, Lowes, and other Large Corporate web sites.

If I am irritated by this I just add the sender to my spam list. Works for me.

[Patrick L]

I too have dealt with Brownells for going on 40 years, and I have definitely seen a change in the last 8-10 years. Definitely more into trendy, tacticool, sort of stuff. Definite decline in the quality of their people too.

I always attributed it the the "the third generation ruins the company" syndrome. First generation builds a company from nothing. Second generation works for the family business, also works hard, builds it into something really special. Since they are now pretty successful, 3rd generation grows up very comfortable, "entitled" if you will. They get sent to college, some get MBAs, and suddenly they decide to "fix" the company to maximize profits, expand their market, whatever. Company now stinks!

I have no evidence this is what in fact happened.

[oldhenry]

There is college business classes on and about what typically happens when a family business 'passes the torch' to the next generation.

More often than not, it doesn't end well.

Painfully true. The business that I started in'76 closed this past November. The third generation has a different mindset.

[hornetguy]

Please excuse my ignorance, but did you first check with Ruger? Just wondering as I didn't see where you had. Many times, aftermarket parts just aren't identical no matter where you shop.

Slim

And as a second follow-up to this...
I called Ruger, and got to talk to a real, live human being. Louise asked me what I needed, and I explained my concern that my front sight might not be "original" height, and when I gave her my measurement, she checked it. She told me that Ruger only makes two heights for these blades, one is about .340, and the other is .44-something. Mine measured crudely at .350. I asked her what the part number and price was for the taller one, and she said "just give me your mailing address, and I'll send you one".....

I'm pretty much blown away that a company still cares about making/keeping customers like Ruger does. I've always been a fan of Ruger, and this just reinforces that opinion.....
I know it's not a terribly expensive part, but still.... just the willingness to not only give me the part, but to pay shipping for it.... all just to make a customer happy.... that's rare today.

[John Taylor]

About 30 years ago I had a customer looking for a Ruger rear sight with a narrower notch like used on their 10" revolver. I took a chance and sent Ruger a $10 bill and a note for what I was looking for. They sent me a dozen of the sights

[porthos]

i too am in the "upset with brownells" croud. it all started with the charge for a catalog. another policy that changed is: if you have brownells screwdriver bits that insert by magnet into the handle the bits are guarenteed for life. i've sent them back several times when i broke or twisted several of them. you do not have to send them back now. just send them the invoice # that the bits are on and they will replace them. how many of you keep the invoices.. guess what, i do. i was in business and retain all of them for 20+ years ago. most customers have trashed them; so no proof of purchase. sone day i will go thru my old invoices and get new bits. other than that i don't have much use for them

[waksupi]

I don't think they have a lot of "gun" people working there. One of my cousins works there, not sure she even knows which end of the gun the projectile comes out of. Another guy I know who works there, is a Harley mechanic.

[22cf45]

They certainly aren't what we are used to for years. Seems like everything I need is out of stock. Recently I needed a Brownell steel grip, ordered it. Received it in short order only to find out it came with a cap head screw! WTH, can't imagine putting a cap head screw anywhere on a custom fancy wood stock. Bet Len Brownell was turning in his grave.
Phil

[MKII]

Nobody has much good to say about Pete. Frank is a true gentleman but in poor health and not having anything to do with running the company. When retail and wholesale co-mingle everyone pays more.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I think there are fewer and fewer hobbyists working on guns just as there are fewer folks doing leather projects and building balsa wood plane kits. When I moved to the city where I now live 30 years ago there was a Tandy Leather store that closed not long after along with the Radio Shack and quite a few gun shops. The times, they are a changing! Brownell's had to change with them. For that matter, casting boolits these days is about as common as book binding and caning chair seats.

[Fishoot]

I color case harden old single shots. I have had bone charcoal on "notify me" status for at least 6 months. I suspect I will never get it from Brownell's. Sad to watch this business go downhill. I'm now cooking old cow bones to make charcoal.

[dogrunner]

Gawde what a depressing thread.............but I agree with every sentiment voiced.............just a GD shame!


It occurs that some one ought to send a copy of this whole thread to Brownells!

[Outer Rondacker]

Gawde what a depressing thread.............but I agree with every sentiment voiced.............just a GD shame!


It occurs that some one ought to send a copy of this whole thread to Brownells!

Do you honestly think they give a hoot. Not one bit as long as they money flow is still coming in. Just like Midway USA.

[Shawlerbrook]

Haven’t dealt with Brownells in a few years, but they use to be the place to go for gunsmithing tools, parts and supplies. Their Kinks book series not only has some great tips but is very entertaining. I do agree that many of the old, self taught smiths are passing on and it is very sad. This is another time when I know how the old mountain men felt as they saw their lifestyle dying away.

[pworley1]

It is not just Brownell"s. The lack of knowledge and level of service has dropped across the board of companies. Items kept in stock do not make any money so most now only keep the most popular and best sellers in stock and drop ship everything else.

[Snakeoil]

I am a second generation Brownell's customer. I did not read all the posts here, but a good chunk of them. I suspect that they are finding themselves boxed in by the way business is done today. If they tried to maintain the Mom&Pop business practices, my guess is they found themselves seeing their market share diminish. Keep in mind that all those gray haired guys that ran your local gun shops, were gun smiths and custom rifle/pistol builder are dying and retiring. Brownell's cannot stay in business by saying how much they miss those guys. They need to understand what the guy that will replace them is expecting. That my friends is the generation after the baby-boomers.

I would also suspect that the firearms makers are not using outfits like Brownell's to be their parts distributors any longer. You want parts for your new Remington, Browning or Henry, you need to go to them or have your gunshop/gunsmith go to them. Because a computer can pretty much make a chimp into a parts sales guy, they hire the chimp, stop paying the commision to the distributor and charge retail prices, the margin from which they keep rather than share with the distributor.

The other rub is stuff is just not available like it used to be. The speciality products are gone. I know the owner of Merit Gun Sight. Actually, he's the son of a guy I worked with for years who bought Merit from the creator. He's busy, has no time and hence Merit Gun sights are not being made. He said he's going to start up again in the spring and to call him. I have guys that I shoot with that want Merits. I even offered to build sights for him for free just to get product out there. He did not want my help. Now, take that example, change the driving circumstances (health, death, age, etc.) and Brownell's sources for superb products is slowly fading away.

Been to a hardware store lately? Try to buy a slotted head machine screw. They are either Phillips, Hex, Torx or Phillips with a slot. Slotted head screws are now a specialty item. Why, BECAUSE WE DON'T MAKE THAT STUFF IN THE USA ANYMORE!!!!

Sorry, it's a sore point with me.

Don't bitch about Brownell's until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Whining is what weenies do. Suck it up, support the businesses that support our hobby and deal with the disapointments. There will be more. That I can guarantee.

[Shawlerbrook]

You can’t name many businesses that are better now than they used to be. Trying to find help that is knowledgeable and gives a darn is near impossible.

[hornetguy]

Been to a hardware store lately? Try to buy a slotted head machine screw. They are either Phillips, Hex, Torx or Phillips with a slot. Slotted head screws are now a specialty item. Why, BECAUSE WE DON'T MAKE THAT STUFF IN THE USA ANYMORE!!!!

Not trying to derail the thread.... and I agree with just about your whole post.... except the anger about the quoted part.

Personally, just me, but I don't know of ANY application where a slotted screw head would be better than any of the others mentioned. They ALL are much easier to torque to spec, and to break loose when "stuck". Stripping one of them actually takes a concerted effort.

But, I agree with the rest of it... :grin:

[Hannibal]

Not trying to derail the thread.... and I agree with just about your whole post.... except the anger about the quoted part.

Personally, just me, but I don't know of ANY application where a slotted screw head would be better than any of the others mentioned. They ALL are much easier to torque to spec, and to break loose when "stuck". Stripping one of them actually takes a concerted effort.

But, I agree with the rest of it... :grin:

If you are making a single shot rifle or working on something with damaged fasteners and want it to retain some semblance of originality or period correctness then it's a problem.

Stick a Phillips or torx screw in the side of a lever action and see what that looks like.

[maxreloader]

stick a phillips or torx screw in the side of a lever action and see what that looks like.

amen!!!

[ulav8r]

Even if slotted screws were available, none of them would be of any use for antyhing other than maybe a buttplate on a cheap gun. Even those were not flat head slotted screws. 99.9%(at least) of all gun screws were custom screws not readily available from anyone but the original manufacturer.

[hornetguy]

If you are making a single shot rifle or working on something with damaged fasteners and want it to retain some semblance of originality or period correctness then it's a problem.

Stick a Phillips or torx screw in the side of a lever action and see what that looks like.

Oh, I understand the need/desire to match what's on the gun, but in reality, a hardware store very likely is not going to have the right thread pitch, so having or not having a slot is sort of moot. I have to "match" machine screws at work on a pretty regular basis, but I'm fortunate in that most of my stuff uses more standard threads, either SAE or metric, coarse or fine. Finding a 6-48 screw at the average hardware store just isn't going to happen.
Many times I have to go to an online specialty place, like MSC or someplace like that. Occasionally McMaster Carr will have oddball sizes, but B&M hardware stores generally don't.
I just purchased a base for a red dot sight, and the manufacturer sent 3 different sizes/thread screws to try to fit nearly any drilled and tapped firearm. The firearm industry is not known for consistency between brands, at least in my experience.