Dark bore but shows rifling. Shootable or collector piece.

[barrabruce]

I have taken out my 0.310 cadet carbine and got most of the rust out of it.
Thought I would see is I can make it shoot.
Shot a few bullets with some grit on them and some sort of cereal and ground coffee compressed loads down the bore on top of well lubed bullets.
Lots of elbow grease scrubbing and I have a bore that is not 0.310" but a 0.315" slug just scrapes lightly on a couple of places.
The chamber has a few light pits but not too bad.
The forcing cone is craggy over size cone that converges onto some swirly grooves down the bore.

With normal cast loads I’m getting a +2"ish sort of round group at 50 yrds.

My idea is to get the bore to an even size or there abouts and then see if I can Lapp or refresh the grooves some.

I tried to pour a Lapp but it was a chore to get it out of the barrel, let alone try and hammer it through.

So what would be the course of action here?

Here she is all 32 inch’s of here.
308630
308631
Not too worried about 1000 yrd shooting but could be good for a bail gun or close 50 yrd coke can blaster.

I think the grooves are 0.322" so it would leave me about 3 thou deep rifling.
Cleaned up.
So for a experimental course in refreshing, what do I need to make for a wet season project?
Bruce

[schutzen-jager]

have you tried shooting it ? you could be in for a pleasant surprise - you never know till you try -

[GhostHawk]

About 5 years ago I bought a pair of Mosin Nagants. Both had fairly good strong rifling, but grooves were dark. I started shooting them with pretty lack luster results. Eventually I got my cast boolits large enough and things improved. Each time I shot them I would bring them home and clean them. At first I got a lot of green copper fouling.

Eventually with repeated shooting, cleaning, and use of Ben's Liquid Lube (old formula) with 1% carnuba added. The bores came out super shiny and sweet. And the groups tightened significantly.

It may take a little time, but chances are its worth investing a little time into it.

Best of luck to you.

[725]

Powder coating the bullet may give a better fit. Re-lining is a very good option. Bob Hoyt does that very well. Others can do it, too. There are "kits" for you to do it at home (if you're handy.)

[Larry Gibson]

With some 32 cal bullets [.323 - 325] a bit of fire lapping would probably help a lot. If you can get some 323470s would be good candidates for the fire lapping. Probably wouldn't take much.

What cast bullet are you wanting to use?

[dverna]

Agree with the others. Definitely worth investing some time on the old girl. I love the Martini's and would love to get one in .38/.357 but they are no longer a bargain here in the US.

If you cannot get the barrel to shoot, having it rebored is something to consider.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd experiment with it some more.
Slightly oversize boolits, maybe even try out that new fad of powder coating.:bigsmyl2: before I did anything rash.

[indian joe]

I have taken out my 0.310 cadet carbine and got most of the rust out of it.
Thought I would see is I can make it shoot.
Shot a few bullets with some grit on them and some sort of cereal and ground coffee compressed loads down the bore on top of well lubed bullets.
Lots of elbow grease scrubbing and I have a bore that is not 0.310" but a 0.315" slug just scrapes lightly on a couple of places.
The chamber has a few light pits but not too bad.
The forcing cone is craggy over size cone that converges onto some swirly grooves down the bore.

With normal cast loads I’m getting a +2"ish sort of round group at 50 yrds.

My idea is to get the bore to an even size or there abouts and then see if I can Lapp or refresh the grooves some.

I tried to pour a Lapp but it was a chore to get it out of the barrel, let alone try and hammer it through.

So what would be the course of action here?

Here she is all 32 inch’s of here.
308630
308631
Not too worried about 1000 yrd shooting but could be good for a bail gun or close 50 yrd coke can blaster.

I think the grooves are 0.322" so it would leave me about 3 thou deep rifling.
Cleaned up.
So for a experimental course in refreshing, what do I need to make for a wet season project?
Bruce

Bruce
I have brought a few back to life using steel wool and brasso - take an old brass bristle brush and wrap steel wool tight around it - tight as you can get dip it in brasso and push in from the chamber end - this needs to be a tight fit so just add a little steel wool any time it gets a tad slack - go at it for a half hour or so, long slow strokes, keep refreshing the steel wool and brasso (theres likely something better but its what I have and it works) after a bit you will feel the bore lose its grip on the brush and it gets easier pushing the rod. When its done wash the crud out of it with petrol then go again with jewellers rouge on the brush (steel wool again too) -- done a couple old muzzleloaders like this - done a couple stuffed lever gun barrels - all came back and shot good - just for giggles I tried it on my shot out 22/250 (could see the throat erosion in it up about three inches into the rifling proper - that thing came back to its old MOA standard - dont know for how long - I dont shoot it much now - win model 70 done about 4500 full power loads - quite a few of em out of a warm barrel. The other part of your deal is skinny lead boolits dont work soonce you are done cleaning - is gonna need to slug the bore and get a boolit that fits well --CBE should be able to sort a mold.

[barrabruce]

Thankyou all for the support.
Indian Joe: good to see the new owner has got CBE up and running again.
I plan to order a mold off him but for different gun.
Here is what l’m trying to better.
First time out after initial "cleaning and blasting"
308652
Mostly in 2 inches at 50 yrds.

I spent a few hrs today with some autosol polish and steel wool.
I followed up with a lap and autosol and moved the lap around to different lands.
It is not as gratey as it first was.
Pic of the chamber/rifling area.
308653
Muzzle end looks actually "salt and peppery".
308654
The bore and lands measure about 0.3155" at this stage and being a 5 groover across the bore and one land 0.317-0.318.
So it gives me roughly a 0.322" my mould is 0.324" heeled 120grn.
Next time I’ll do a pluck test and see where the hangs up in/near chamber.

I will lube the bore well before shooting as I think it may help some.

Hopefully it may have improved it a little.
I for the life of me don’t know why the ‘ol timers believed in rough bores shot better.
Maybe it was a left over thing from black powder days and people were scared of shooting their barrels slick or something.

This ol girl may be a candidate for black powder.
But I don’t know what grade I would have to buy for it.
It would save my precious smokeless pistol powder hopefully till we can get some more supply.

Cheers
Bruce
Few weeks to next report.

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=barrabruce;5509775]But I don’t know what grade I would have to buy for it.
It would save my precious smokeless pistol powder hopefully till we can get some more supply.QUOTE]

I heard a vicious rumor that double 'F' was hard to beat.
Years ago a buddy gave me 5 pounds of GOEX "FF" when he switched to those pellets.
I use it in my .45-70 for the novelty of shooting holy black once in awhile.
It does a great job for me with a 405FP.

[Mike H]

Bruce,
I reckon you are doing well,probably best to save your suitable powder for better barrels until the powder supply improves.
Mike.

[M-Tecs]

I found this info helpful for my 310 Cadet

https://castbulletassoc.org/blog/article/2022/12/255/brass-for-the-310-cadet

[indian joe]

Thankyou all for the support.
Indian Joe: good to see the new owner has got CBE up and running again.

yeah I have had a few off them the last couple years, reasonable price,(more than reasonable since our AU$ went in the toilet) good quality

I plan to order a mold off him but for different gun.
Here is what l’m trying to better.
First time out after initial "cleaning and blasting"
308652
Mostly in 2 inches at 50 yrds.

I would call that a win for a first out

I spent a few hrs today with some autosol polish and steel wool.
I followed up with a lap and autosol and moved the lap around to different lands.
It is not as gratey as it first was.
Pic of the chamber/rifling area.
308653
Muzzle end looks actually "salt and peppery".
308654
The bore and lands measure about 0.3155" at this stage and being a 5 groover across the bore and one land 0.317-0.318.
So it gives me roughly a 0.322" my mould is 0.324" heeled 120grn.
Next time I’ll do a pluck test and see where the hangs up in/near chamber.

I will lube the bore well before shooting as I think it may help some.

Hopefully it may have improved it a little.
I for the life of me don’t know why the ‘ol timers believed in rough bores shot better.
Maybe it was a left over thing from black powder days and people were scared of shooting their barrels slick or something.

I reckon they didnt realise what they were up against, smokeless powder looked a good deal but they were shooting corrosive primers - blackpowder residue is easy to see and easy to clean out - the corrosive primer residue was invisible and much much harder to get out - lotta good barrels ruined in the early smokeless days .

This ol girl may be a candidate for black powder.
But I don’t know what grade I would have to buy for it.
its a little case you likely do better with FFFg (or even FFFFG would work)

It would save my precious smokeless pistol powder hopefully till we can get some more supply.
How far north are you ? I have shotgun powder here I will never use (Red Dot, WST, Winchester 452?) I'll be up in march/april as far as McKay - maybe as far as Bowen and Homehill. (just a thought)
Cheers
Bruce
Few weeks to next report.

......

[barrabruce]

I do pretty much the same as in the link.
Thanks for the advice.
After a session it appears that my inability to focus on the front sight is taxing me a fair bit. Vertically for sure.
Apart from that.
All shots a 50 y/m
I’m getting some wild flyers marked in yellow.
It seems to be generally shooting a little better.
I may go over the crown.
There could be a crater edge the bullet is catching somewhere or something like that.
308922
308923
Used powder out of a shot gun case. First 2 a little low so upped it a smidge.
308924
Some one had some commercial fingernail polish coated bullets using some probably 60 year old Australian made "Super powder" if anyones heard of it.
That too threw a wild flyer.
308925
Obvious more work needs to be done.
The bore fouling seemed very dry.
I may have to try a different lube.
Took 4-5 patches of Ed’s red to clean but didn’t feel grabby on the patches or any lead particles or slithers came out.
The first 12 shots may have fouled enough for it to give it a tighter bore.

Going to put a different front sight on it.
Check the crown for burrs.
I got given a few different shot gun cases besides the pellets so I might play with them next time.
Could just be all the loose nut behind the butt.
Cheers.

[barrabruce]

Took it out to the range and shot the ‘ol girl for a bit.
Used some powder scavenged out of 12 gauge shot gun shells some one gave me sans lead.
I will use the primers in the 410 shells I load and powder for this thing for a while.
That way I’m only wasting primers and my time.
The first shot cold clean bore went through the x.
I should have packed up and went home.[smilie=w:
This is the first two groups of 7 in each
309577
Second photo is the next group and it was rough.
I thought I’d try and use the file on the back of my pocket knife to knurl the diameter of the bullet fatter to see if there was any improvement.
309578
There is 7 in that little cluster but not the in the same group.

Thinking I my be on to something I adjusted the sights and knurled some more to see as one does when one thinks there on to something.
309579
Erghhh no. The first 7 rounds were patchy.
So I loaded the next 7 with as cast ones.
They shot betterish but not great.

My conclusion is I hold the light little bugga to hard for the first shot sending it wild.
If I let the gun just jump around in my hand so to speak it shoots tighter.

This is only at 50 yrds and nothing worth getting excited about.
I did put one patch with reds red on it through the bore and that’s all.
I’m hoping that is just fouling up and running in its new clean bits and settles down.
If not I may try some rough attempt at a cutter in a Lapp as a sort of freshener.
I will have to get the bore uniform first.
Maybe I can find. 0.315-6” drill I can clip the cutting tips off and make a poor man’s reamer or something.
Any hoo.
Thanks for your time.
I might have a go at it time to time when I’m in the mood.
Like I said to the bloke at the range when he asked "ain’t I supposed to have done all of that …before …I came(reloading)to the range.
I replied I’m glad I didn’t load a batch of them at home to take apart and I only have made 7 cases for this rifle and I may have made 6 too many.

[john.k]

Theoretically,you could make yourself a "spill reamer" ,which is how the bore was cut in 1910.......however ,the generall condition is more suitable for Hornet or 222R conversion.

[barrabruce]

Well it would’ve been John but powder to run them has turned into rocking horse poop, non-obtainium or extinct.
Need something that runs on at least 2207 or slower for me to play with and most of those things I’m not interested in.
My magic ball is not giving me any indication that things will improve.

I might become a vegan and protest about sports that advertise grog and gambling and Greenpeace type morons who think getting rid of pests just needs a squirt or feed of love potion which makes things run off and bleed out slowly somewhere else, out of view and mind.

[LAGS]

I am currently in the process of cleaning up a Spanish 1916 barrel in .308.
When you look down the bore using a light at the other end , The bore looks almost shiny and the rifling can be seen.
But when I looked at it with my new Bore Scope.
You can see lots of fine pitting.
So I made up a bore lapper slug to fit my cleaning rod.
It was .300 dia.
I ran it down the bore with lapping compound several times.
Now when you look down the bore with either the light or bore scope without the mirror tip , the rifling shines out a lot more.
As I was pushing the lapping tool down the bore.
I found several spots that felt rough and didn't want the lapping tool to pass with out more force.
But now , the tool slides down evenly.
And the lands still are mostly at .301 dia.
Now I am going to fire lap the barrel and see if I can knock some of the pit edges off to smooth out the bore in the grooves a little better.
I will not Lapp the bore to get All the pits out.
But just smoothing the bore out so to more consistent , should make it shoot better.
People don't realize that Smoothed out pit edges will help.
But if you Lapp the bore so all the even minor pits are gone , will increase the bore diameter .
Then it won't shoot as good untill you use a bullet that is a larger diameter.

[barrabruce]

What did you make your bore lapper out of?

Hey John I looked up spill drilling. Can’t see it working in a rifled bore but all good knowledge.

Maybe I could drill out the crap and spill drill it out to say 0.326" then put some curly scratches down it and make it into a 0.310" muzzle loaded 0.330 cal smokeless cross patched ,false muzzled ,slick shooting vunder carbeen.

Hey sounds like fun project.

Wonder what the purloining, turd burglers would want have to done to me if I rocked up with something like that at the local facility for only the finer shooting ****wits and arseholes?

I’m sure between them and the authorities they would have me cannon fired over a vast area.

Hee heee heee.

Would that need a change of caliber with a form 10 or do you think it would be all good being still a 0.310 cadet an all?
Can you get people to pressure test and certify it for you or only if they are are making a bucket of money out of it for themselves.

Seeing there is no such recognised profession as a gunsmith in Australia how do all these self acclaimed masters been able to get away with there illegal doings for so long.

But I digress.

[LAGS]

I actually made the bore lapper out of a 8/32 rod coupling.
Yes they are hex outside.
I screwed it on a 8/32 bolt.
Put it in my poor man's lathe.
( Electric drill motor in my vise )
Then I just filed it down while spinning to .304 dia.
Then polished it down with black sandpaper to .300 dia.
Yes it sounds like a Bubba type set up.
But you use what you have.
Then I shortened the screw and threaded it into my cleaning rod.
Smeared it with polishing compound and slid it in the bore several times till it traveled smoothly.
Now that only polished up the top of the lands.
If I want , (and have done before ) I can cast a bore slug out of JB Weld on a old cleaning wire brush.
You can use almost any hard slow drying Epoxy.
The quick dry stuff doesn't get really hard.
I put Johnson's paste wax in the bore. As a release agent.
You can just rub the inside of the bore with just regular wax if you do not have Paste wax.
Put a plug in the barrel about 3" in
Then inserted a worn out bore brush coated with the epoxy
Let it dry , then pounded it out from the action end.
Then I can use that to lap the bore and grooves with polishing compound screwed on the cleaning rod.
That casting matches the rifling and will follow the rifles barrel twist if not forced too much.
These are not Professional methods but can help smooth out rust or the tops of pitting.
Pictures of me using this method are posted in a thread in Muzzleloaders under " Bubba'ed Barrel Repair "
I used it to lap screws that went all the way into the bore.
No , I was not the one who drilled and tapped the holes all the way into the bore.
But I did fix it and the rifle shoots great.

[barrabruce]

Cleaned and lapped out the bore a bit more.
Looks shinier each time.
I forced a tight fitting patch through and it left 3x little tips of cloth where there is sharp sink holes.
I bumped and lapped a bit more in that tight area and I’m hoping it may help some.
Fire lapped 5 bullets with metal cleaner through it with a very light charge.
Might try it before I do a groove Lapp and see how it goes.
309690
You can see where the heel has not quite bumped up to fill the grooves yet
The groove diameter is dark, alla rust and gook.
Maybe best to keep it that way.
The collected bullet seems a lot more consistent push through the rifle again, well not too bad anyway, it don’t jump in spots and seems tighter at the muzzle now.
Might be worth a go.
Slowly slowly catch the monkey.
Think the dimensions at the tightest are now 0.3135-0.322"

[barrabruce]

No better but maybe more consistent.
309879
About 2"at 50 yrds.
I’m tossing up between firing lubed metal polished bullets or try and makes cutter to pull or push through the bore to help even up the lands.
I bet there is an easy way to do this.
If I can make a cutter that will follow the grooves.
All of a sudden a 30 bore looks awe full small.
Ha.:)

[barrabruce]

311534
Doesn’t seem like lots of improvement but loaded with cereal on top of the charge kept the bore heaps cleaner.
I think there was an improvement with gun and time will tell.
If I had to survive on it I would be at least be eating wallabies.
Ha

[GhostHawk]

In my case my worst was a Mosin Nagant built in 43. Lots of old deep copper fouling that kept coming out.

Once I had a big enough boolit and good enough lube the leading stopped. From there it was 5 or 6 cycles of shoot 20-30 rounds, clean, oil, and shoot before I finally saw the bottom of the rifling. I was lucky, no big pits or problems. Just a square edge at the end of the brass neck that liked to shave lead. Once I dealt with that with a hand whittled dowel carved into cartridge shape, a slot cut and some 0000 steel wool my problems were over.

Hang in there, keep shooting, cleaning. ATF is great for getting old fouling out. Run a dripping wet patch down the bore, walk away for an hour or 3. Then come back and clean up with TIGHT dry patch's. Finish with a light ATF patch to protect the bore till you shoot again.

Hang in there!

[barrabruce]

Some more progress has been made.
The first 8 rnds That’s all I got for it.2.5" at 50 yrds
Next 5 rounds reloaded hovering around an inch but blowing out to 1.5"
Last 5 rounds loaded 1" at 50 yrds.
As it got more fouled the better it shot.
So naturally I cleaned it and put it away.
Tonight.
311795
You will have to trust me on this because I was also shooting my new 30-30 with pp’ed bullets.
They to tightened up with more fouling but only to 2" at 50 yrds.
I shot the last pp’d at this spot but guessed right for a change on elevation and offset.
[smilie=b:
May do a little more fire lapping and test again.
Sort of coming all together.
Now the only thing I need to do is wipe some lead in the rough neck area of the chamber so the cases won’t stick.
Or learn to size my cases each shot.
All is good in the world.
Barra

[waksupi]

If you keep cleaning the bore, you will continue chasing accuracy.

[Shawlerbrook]

In these endeavors you must not pass the point of diminishing returns.

[racepres]

If you keep cleaning the bore, you will continue chasing accuracy.

This is Waaayyy more true than most admit... Shoot the darn thing.. Then.... shoot it some more...


In these endeavors you must not pass the point of diminishing returns.

Also very True... but, I like to Shoot anyway...so