Primer pocket swaging, how to hold cases?

[gloob]

I've done this before, but it's been a lot of years. I can't remember what I did? I seem to recall using my drill press, but how to hold the cases?

I've tried a regular countersink bit, and it leaves some of the pockets too tight, still. I found a Hornady pocket reamer in my kit, and it works better. But it grabs so tight, the cases spin in my fingers.

I rigged up a system to stick the cases in my case gauge, then stick a lyman 223 expander rod into the mouth to keep it from spinning. Then I can ream the pockets with the Hornady reamer bit in a drill.

Is there a better way? All my case holding/locking stuff seems to lock onto the rim, covering the primer pocket.

[megasupermagnum]

Get a swaging die. The Lee one is the best I've ever used. The RCBS works, but much slower and rougher.

[Mk42gunner]

You might try something like one of the older fiber fuse pullers. Something that won't mar the case but will still grip it securely.

I was not ware that Lee had a primer pocket swager on the market, I have used the RCBS type in a press-- sold it and bought a Dillon Haven't used it in years, but it still hangs on the wall ready for the next time.

Robert

[Winger Ed.]

I have used those gardening gloves that have some sort of sticky, grippy, rubber something dots on the palms and fingers.

If the pocket was still too tight- the case went in the scrap bucket. It was probably a problem child anyway.

[ddeck22]

If you are going to be doing a great deal of them, I highly recommend the Lee APP with the swaging kit. I tried using the RCBS swage tool and it works if you only have a few to do.

[gloob]

Well, thanks for the suggestions, all.

I turned some new expanders recently, an idea clicked, and the redneck lathe was already setup.

I turned down a 1/4" steel round into a holding tool. Imagine a heavy duty decapping/expander pin, but the pin is too short so it sits flush with the bottom of the primer pocket. And the expander part kicks in at just the right place, as the pin enters the flashhole, seizing the case by the mouth.

The whole thing chucks into a hand drill. So the case spins and the pocket reamer stays still.

I was lucky. The fit came out perfect on the first try. Works perfect and somehow the case can easily be twisted off by hand, when done.

[jetinteriorguy]

When loading 9mm on my 550 once in a while I get a crimped pocket and don’t feel like messing with my RCBS swaging tool. So I just use the Lyman reamer, and if it sticks then I first use an RCBS case deburring tool to remove some of the crimp ring followed by the Lyman reamer to finish up. I just keep them both in a bin right next to the press. This way they won’t turn just in your bare hands.

[Three44s]

For reaming primer pocket crimps, I use a Wilson case trimmer. The case is held by the corresponding case collet built for it. It’s cartridge specific.

My entire process involves using an RCBS swagger set moderately, then a finishing touch on the Wilson trimmer and a fine cut with the appropriate Wilson pocket cutter.

Most of the cut is actually a fine bevel of the entrance to the pocket. But if my swagger leaves too much brass from the crimp the Wilson cutter then backs up the clean-up process.

I have more than one Wilson trimmer bodies so I generally set another side by side with the pocket beveling Wilson set up. That one is used to trim case length. Each case is inserted in the case collet, ran for length then pocket beveled. A two fer if you will.

Call it what you want, that’s my “stick”.

Three44s

[gloob]

^ Yeah, that dance sounds vaguely familiar, both of you.

I used to have a Lyman "rocketship" hand chamfer tool, and I seem to recall now a trio of rocketship, pocket reamer, and a nail with the end turned down to back out primers went they are taking too much force but they have already gotten started.

New tool is really great for batch processing. I predict this might become a thing. I'm not sure why it isn't, already. Slight tweak to the CAD files for regular decapping pins.

Edit: yeah, the nail decapping pin is still in my kit. But that must be for when I was still trying to use a hand primer. Priming on the press, now, I seem to recall just swapping out to sizing/decapping die to back out straggler/tweeners. I'm glad I stopped after just a few instances of "well I guess I just crush it all the way in, now."

[imashooter2]

Swaging is done in a press. It uses a pin to move the displaced brass of the crimp back out of the pocket. Sounds to me like you are trying to cut the crimps out with a countersink. Most of us just spin a deburring tool in a drill motor and touch the pockets to it, holding the cases in our fingers. If you have arthritis or some such affliction, spark plug boot pliers are your friend. There are many styles and angles for the ends. One example:

https://www.amazon.com/ARES-11054-Spark-Removal-Pliers/dp/B09PZL4S9S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1SM9U5C4RQQ44&keywords=Spark+plug+pliers&qid=1672430305&sprefix=spark%2520plug%2520pliers%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExV00wVDAwSzA5TUFOJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTQyNDQwMlRCNUNYQ0cxVEo4RSZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzYyNDU3V1k2QkVMOVdPWFpQJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[Fitz]

I use the Dillon super swedge

[Hick]

I just chuck my cases nose first in my handheld electric drill, hold the lyman primer pocket tool against the base and turn the drill a little. very quick and easy and the drill chuck does not hurt the cases.

[farmbif]

my method is a little unorthodox I guess. I have an old RCBS multi function powdered case prep center. one of the spinning tips is an inside chamfer bit. I just push the primer pocket against it till the crimp is gone. never had a problem with 556 or 308

[Three44s]

The case prep stations with a primer pocket reamer installed certainly do quick work on a pocket crimp if you have enough “traction” to hold the case from spinning.

I like the Wilson case trimmer lathe better because (with either the factory clamp if you have that model or in my instance I made my own clapping fixture) the case is secured. Also, alinement is pretty good.

Three44s

[Rapidrob]

2nd on the Dillon Super Swage. It removes no brass. It swages the crimp it out and into the primer pocket. Depth is adjustable. You can do a case in a couple of seconds with no sore fingers. Of the "crimp tool removers" I own and have used for the last 55 years, the Dillon is the best hands down.

[turtlezx]

drill press with 1 or 2 sizes larger than the hole drill bit
come down on the case hand held on a block of wood
only drill 1/4 of the way into case just cutting out the crimp
a plus to this is a nice radius around the hole so easier to align the new primer
i then prime them at the same time so you can adjust if needed

use a #1 drill for large primer
#9 small

[gloob]

Hicks, this works for my drill, too. The heck? I spent an hour and a half of grinding and measuring and testing and tweaking, and you can just stick the bare cases in a drill!

[ioon44]

I have been using the same a RCBS swage tool for around 40 years and it still works great.

[truckjohn]

Since around 2010, I've had to use a "Primer pocket uniforming tool" to ream out the radius left in the bottom of factory brass. After measuring, they're using under-spec length primers so it all slushes out.

My guess is that it strengthens the case heads, but more than that, it forces us to modify the cases to reload them, thus giving them something tangible they can discover when a lawsuit shows up on their door.

[gloob]

I have several hundreds of LC brass, so this will eventually get a workout.

Already made it, so might as well use it.

https://i.imgur.com/NLevxXj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YqBn60p.jpg

[elmacgyver0]

Looks like a center drill to me.
Is the mandrill just to keep you from going too deep?
Hard to tell from the picture.

[gloob]

A hand drill is part of the equation, but it is not shown. The mandrel chucks into a drill, and that's where it stays while using it.

After power reaming a pocket, I twist the finished case off and twist on the next one. It's at least a little faster and more concentric versus chucking a case right into the drill, like Hicks has mentioned. (Which works pretty darn well).

I am probably going to experiment with mounting the reamer bit under the edge of my bench, so I don't have to pick it up and put it down. Next to my permanently mounted mouth chamfer tool.

This also got me thinking about ways to make my own neck turning tool.

edit: the pin on the end does limit the depth of cut. But the thickness of the casehead varies slightly between headstamps. So I have the length to where I'm getting some reaming on the bottom of the pocket. The odd LC08 case won't get a full ream on the bottom, barely touching the outside of the bottom, but I don't have very many of them. I really won't be able to dial it in until I actually prime a bunch of these cases and see how badly I have messed them up. I'm not sure if I even want any reaming of the bottom.

Measuring with caliper depth stop, I'm getting 117.5 to 118 thous deep on the majority of my LC brass after reaming. Measuring the uncleaned pockets of my nonmilitary brass, I'm measuring between 115 up to 120. Height of a SRP is coming out at 116-116.5, prior to squishing the anvil in.

Google's first finding for me says a small rifle pocket should be 117-123, so there might be enough leeway to rely on the depth stop, but I think feel/judgment comes into play. I mean the bit will stop cutting once the chamfer gets to a certain size (or at least slow down significantly), unless you push harder.

[gloob]

So I took a closer look at what is going on.

The Hornady bit doesn't appear to be shaped to cut in the very center. So it shouldn't be able to cut too deep, unless you try real hard.

Most of these pockets appear to be somewhat dished in the center, deeper at the hole than on the edges of the pocket. The reamer should only level the pocket, cutting a little bit of brass from the outsides of the pocket.

I tried to overcut a case, just going to town on it. And I succeeded. The pocket got too wide, and the primers will fall in/out. But the depth is still right.

[gloob]

I think I'm going to give up on power reaming. My power reamed cases have been cut on the entire sides of the pocket, top to bottom, and the crimp can't go very deep.

I cleaned up my reaming bit under the microscope, blunting the angle of the edges in a taper. So the end should be slightly smaller in diameter and scrape more than cut. The chamfer and the adjoining 7-8ish thousandths of the straight part should cut. And I'll mount my case-holder in a handle and do these by hand. It seems to only take a few turns.

The resulting pockets are getting cut where the crimp should be. The bottom of the pockets and the bottom of the sides are getting cleaned up, too. But there's some dirty untouched area on the sides of the pocket in the middle, when I'm done.

Anyone else having this much fun on Friday night?

[sigep1764]

Dillon Super Swage is the way to go. I used the Lyman multi hand tool, the RCBS primer pocket swager, and the Dillon. Dillon is the most consistent, the fastest, and the easiest to use. Buy it and don’t look back.

[gloob]

Thanks. Swaging seems the fastest way to do this consistently.

I'm starting to remember last time I did this, I just countersunk all of my LC brass. Then I kept the reamer by the press for the stubborn ones that were still tight, only doing them by hand.

If I had more disposable money, I might buy a swager. Right now, I'm just trying to make enough 223 jacketed to fill my mags. And I only have 4 mags.


I suspect reaming could be pretty fast and consistent if maybe the bit had a pilot that went through the flashhole. I know some rare cases might have an offcenter flashhole, but I'd be happy to just throw those away!

[Big Wes]

+1 On what sigep1764 said!

[JoeJames]

I have been using the same a RCBS swage tool for around 40 years and it still works great.Same here ... I use 'em for 556, 308 and 30-06.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've used the little Lee Case chamfer tool to remove the crimp from many, many crimped primer pockets. Have an RCBS pocket swage but using it is tiresome, also have RCBS 5 station case prep with crimp remover tool that works well. Prefer cutting away crimp to swaging, usually uniform primer pockets on military rifle brass JUST BECAUSE after removing crimp. I just hold case with fingers, use a mechanics 'gripper' glove for larger quantities. I use ablock of parafin/old candle/lump of beeswax wiped across cutter as a cutting lube, makes process easier, won't bother primers.

[gloob]

Seems like it's a personal thing. I see a lot of people who have tried swaging went back to chamfer/ream.

I've read swaging isn't always enough, especially for the 4 line crimp. I have probably 200+ LC11 with the 4 line crimp.

It would be pretty trivial for me to grind a swaging button into the end of a hardened steel rod. I might do that and just try swaging with a hammer. I guess I could make one that fits in a shellholder, later, if it works, and get a 21-22 caliber rod in a die for the anvil.

I suspect I'm going to end up back where I started. Power chamfer, hand ream.

One of the best solutions I read about (assuming swaging works on my LC11) is to buy a swager, do all your cases, then put it on eBay. :)

[gloob]

Here's my free pocket swager version 1.

It left a nice shiny ring around the top of the pocket, where I expect it needs to be. The primer is starting in the pocket perfectly.

The most time invested, so far, has been what I spent looking for dropped primers.

I just ran into my first dilemma with swaging. When you've got a pile of brass, how can you tell if the pocket has been swaged already or not? After the first firing, I assume you can't see any difference by eye? I'm thinking maybe I'll add some features, somehow, so it leaves a distinct mark around the rim of the pocket.

https://i.imgur.com/dSuTXRX.jpg

[imashooter2]

I run a batch of once fired cases and then keep them segregated. Once I find a couple I’m that batch ready to fail, I toss the lot and start with the next batch of once fired.