First BPCR

[Blacky Montana]

Hey fellas,

I'm finally able to buy my first BPCR. I've narrowed it down to two. Both Pedersoli's, both 45-70, and both about the same price. I will be mainly using for steel targets, and wanting to get into long range. Will not be in sanctions events, so not concerned with the 12 or 10 pound limit.

Also, I am not new to the 45-70. I have been taking deer and huge hogs with a Marlin 1895 for the last 30 years.

First rifle is the 1877 long range Sharps. Half round 32" barrel, weighing little over 10 lbs. Second rifle is the John Bodine with 34" full octagon, weighing closer to 13 lbs. I plan on reloading and shooting heavy cast in the 500 to 600 grain range. Will also be using both black and smokeless powders.

Now the two main questions. Does one have a advantage over the other, and does two inches in barrel length make much of a difference. Also, is there a big difference in recoil when shooting off sticks, between a 10 and 13 lb rifle. Although I don't plan on a lot of off hand shooting at 63 years old, I know the difference in weight would be a lot different freehand.

Thanks guys
Blacky

[Blacky Montana]

Almost forgot. For anyone who doesn't know, the John Bodine is a Rolling Block.

Blacky

[BLAHUT]

[ Now the two main questions. Does one have a advantage over the other, and does two inches in barrel length make much of a difference. Also, is there a big difference in recoil when shooting off sticks, between a 10 and 13 lb rifle. ]
1) longer barrel makes for better sight picture.
2) heaver means less recoil.
3) will your bullet carry enough lube to stop leading ?
4) heavy bullets and heavy powder loads = more recoil.
I shoot a 500+ gr pure lead bullet in a 45/70, roller, with 42 grs of blackhorn209 out of a 30" barrel, 1200FPS, with a mag primer, at long range, sanction matches. I put a heavy recoil pad on to mitigate the heavy recoil, off sticks.

[Lead pot]

The only difference if was the case would be the stock configuration for long range, and maybe the chamber if one has a bunch of freebore over the other. I don't know if Pedersoli has changed their ways putting a bunch of freebore in or not.
The rollers have a bunch of drop in the stock or if one had a straight stock or pistol grip. This might be a problem for some but the .45-70 is fairly mild with recoil with the two rifles you mentioned over the 95 Marlin. I know what they can do pushing your shoulder back.
The .45-70 will hold its own at the 1K yardage when properly loaded.

[Blacky Montana]

Both have pistol grip stocks. I know that I read here on this forum, that the 1:18 twist does better with heavier lead than the standard 405 gr. That is the reason I plan on using heavier cast bullets.

[country gent]

Are you planning on shooting prone with these rifles? Or just off the cross sticks? The roller is easier to load / unload from prone than the sharps with the under levers arc.If your wanting to shoot heavier longer bullets then look for 1-18 twist or 1-16. I prefer the heavier rifles thy ride the sticks better and less recoil. When in a match it is different than at the range you normally have a time limit and the fay may be 60-80 rds A 10 lb rifle can make for a long day. The longer sight radius is a benefit with iron sights, with BP loads I dont think it adds a lot of velocity. As important as the rifle is the sights and trigger. A good set of soule type tang and globe with level that repeat and a trigger that is consistent and easy to use.

[Blacky Montana]

Lead Pot, you are correct about the model 95 push. While in the Army I was stationed in Savanah GA. We use to hunt big tusker boars in the palmetto patches. I've slammed a few big boys that were "danger close" using Garette Hammerhead +P ammo. Recoil was enough to jar your teeth. But it would stop a charging board dead in his tracks. Was like it was hut with Thor's hammer...lol

Blacky

[Blacky Montana]

Both rifles come with Pedersoli long range vernier sights with matching globe front, and double set triggers. But I plan on replacing a sights with a set of MVA.

[Gunlaker]

The 13lb rifle won't make NRA silhouette rules for iron sights ( but it would be Ok if you put a scope on it ). Not all match directors care about weights though.

If you don't plan on formal competition then I'd get the lighter gun if you want to ever hunt with it, or the heavier one if it's going to spend its time at the rifle range. The heavier gun with its longer barrel will definitely be steadier on the cross sticks and you'll probably shoot better with it. Some don't like 34" barrels because they have fouling problems. I wipe between shots so long barrels work the same as short ones as far as fouling goes.

Chris.

[Blacky Montana]

Thanks Chris,
I'll probably end up with the heavy roller anyway. The first rolling block I ever fired was a John Bodine 34". It belonged to one of the guys at my gun club. I fell in love with it..lol. They we would let me compete with them on the short range (250 yards) using my Marlin 95. I was just required to load only one shot at a time. I had a blast, but couldn't really compete with their Sharps, RB's, and TD's. Plus I was using factory buck horn sights against their Verniers and Soule's. Was tickled when I placed 5th...lol

Blacky

[Gunlaker]

Those Pedersoli rolling blocks can shoot pretty well. I know a couple of guys who have them and are very happy.

It sounds like you'll have a good time with that rifle. If it doesn't already have target sights on it, I really recommend getting a Montana Vintage Arms Soule sight for it. Their quality is excellent, and the easy windage adjustments with the soule drum make it the sight to get. For a front sight, assuming you need one, I'd recommend the Baldwin. I like MVA stuff a lot, but in the case of front sights the little clips on their front sights catch on everything for me. Baldwin sights are smooth on the top with nothing to catch on.

When it comes to a bullet mold, I'd find out what other guys are shooting successfully with the Pedersoli. What works in a Shiloh Sharp's rifles throat might not work best in a Pedersoli throat. A 525-535gr Creedmoor or Money bullet from Buffalo Arms cast ( unsized ) to be as big as will fit in a fired case will probably be a good place to start though.

Chris.

[freakonaleash]

I'd skip the two peds and go with one shiloh, C. Sharps or Ballard.

[TJBCS]

I have a Pedersoli and shoot both BP and smokeless. The barrels are top-notch and when you find the right bullet and load, it is amazing. I only compete in local matches but I like the longer and heavier with heavy bullets.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have been shooting Pedersolis for over 30 years. Tried a couple of rolling blocks and found there was no camming power to push the round home and just engrave the rifling. The 1874 Sharps has that camming power when loading and the boolit so seated is very accurate. I use a custom lathe bored 545gn boolit (by Paul Jones) that comes from the mould at 0.460" and is lubricated with SPG and shot unsized.

10 shot group at 100 yds with aperature sights.
https://i.imgur.com/E7vhjh2l.jpg

My 'collection, of Pedersoli Sharps, 45/70, 45/90, 50/70, 50/90 and 40/65
https://i.imgur.com/y9yRRvBl.jpg

One of my favourite 'fun guns' is the long range 50/70 which also has proven very accurate. There is just something about punching big 50cal holes in paper!

https://i.imgur.com/7Rj84YXl.jpg

[Edward]

I believe you have an addiction for good guns and great shooting just sayin/ Ed

[FrankJD]

For the most part, the Pedersoli BPCR rifles in Sharps or roller configurations, of which I've had many of and used to very good ends, will be far more accurate than their shooters. But blaming poor accuracy on a rifle, where not warranted, makes for good excuses. Just sayin'.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The Pedersoli barrel making is unique in that they feature progressive depth rifling of about 1.5 to 2.0 thousandths of an inch. I've done barrel casts that show (in 50/70) that the chamber throat measures 0.500"/ 0.510" while the muzzle is 0.502/0.510"

The 45/70 and 45/90 have a 1.5 thousand taper and even my 1886 sporting rifle with 26" barrel and Hiwall 38/55 has 0.001" taper. This taper allows loading of boolits that are slightly over sized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VeZynGoIQo

https://i.imgur.com/chnKiwxl.jpg

[TJBCS]

The Pedersoli barrel making is unique in that they feature progressive depth rifling of about 1.5 to 2.0 thousandths of an inch. I've done barrel casts that show (in 50/70) that the chamber throat measures 0.500"/ 0.510" while the muzzle is 0.512/0.510"

The 45/70 and 45/90 have a 1.5 thousand taper and even my 1886 sporting rifle with 26" barrel and Hiwall 38/55 has 0.001" taper. This taper allows loading of boolits that are slightly over sized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VeZynGoIQo

https://i.imgur.com/chnKiwxl.jpg

Best explanation I have read regarding how they are made. Thanks mate!

[Don McDowell]

You will likely want to replace the factory rear sight with something a bit better, MVA, Hoke or Baldwin are all dependable and repeatable.
With the 18 twist those barrels have, keeping the bullet length pretty tight to 1.4 long will serve well for shooting the long distances.

[fayettefatts]

The Pedersoli barrel making is unique in that they feature progressive depth rifling of about 1.5 to 2.0 thousandths of an inch. I've done barrel casts that show (in 50/70) that the chamber throat measures 0.500"/ 0.510" while the muzzle is 0.512/0.510"

The 45/70 and 45/90 have a 1.5 thousand taper and even my 1886 sporting rifle with 26" barrel and Hiwall 38/55 has 0.001" taper. This taper allows loading of boolits that are slightly over sized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VeZynGoIQo

https://i.imgur.com/chnKiwxl.jpg

So, if I am reading this right, the grooves get deeper as the bullet moves from chamber to muzzle? Seems the opposite would be better.

[beltfed]

According to Bad Ass W. his 50 cal is 0.500/0.510 at breech and 0.502/510 at muzzle.
That is saying the BORE/Lands are larger diameter at Muzzle 0.500 vs 0.502 at breech and the Groove is the same at 0.510.
Are you sure about that or is this backwards?
Most barrel makers would make Both Bore And Groove slightly Smaller at muzzle if they are bothering.
beltfed/arnie

[Bad Ass Wallace]

According to Bad Ass W. his 50 cal is 0.500/0.510 at breech and 0.502/510 at muzzle.
That is saying the BORE/Lands are larger diameter at Muzzle 0.500 vs 0.502 at breech and the Groove is the same at 0.510.
Are you sure about that or is this backwards?
Most barrel makers would make Both Bore And Groove slightly Smaller at muzzle if they are bothering.
beltfed/arnie
You are correct, I got it ass backward!