Stick Welding (SMAW) Advice Needed

[justindad]

I’m looking into stick welding and need some advice. I’m completely new to this.
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I was pretty good at acetylene welding auto body sheet steel when I was 17, and now 22 years later I’m considering a stick welder. The first thing I’m wondering about is safety precautions so I can keep feeding my three kids.
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Purpose: I want to build a trailer frame with a 4-bar linkage that can mount a hand-operated earth auger. The 4-bar will be powered by a motor-driven hydraulic piston, or something similar. The trailer will mount to my riding lawn mower. Travel speed of the piston while digging will be slow - lifting the auger up to prevent the auger blade from screwing into the ground and getting stuck is more important.
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I can design a strong frame and functioning machine, but I’m completely ignorant about welding the frame together.
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The stick welder seems to be the most economical equipment set for welding 1/8”-1/4” steel From TSC. The cheap MIG welder from Harbor Freight has too many issues, but a stick welder is harder to goof up at the factory. I can get a quality MIG welder for $800 or a cheap, strong stick welder for $320. I will need a 40-50 amp 240V breaker in my garage, probably guarded by a lock box to keep curious kids away.
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Any other thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated!

[lancem]

I would recommend one of these: https://smile.amazon.com/MIG-140GS-Lift-TIG-Inverter-Compatible-Aluminum/dp/B08M6HWTG8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1J5C9HXY5ER8G&keywords=140-Amp+MIG%2FMAG%2FLift-TIG%2FStick+Arc+Combo+Welder%2C+100%25+Duty+Cycle% 2C+Compatible+Spool+Gun+SPG15180+Weld+Aluminum&qid=1672177547&s=instant-video&sprefix=140-amp+mig%2Fmag%2Flift-tig%2Fstick+arc+combo+welder%2C+100%25+duty+cycle% 2C+compatible+spool+gun+spg15180+weld+aluminum%2Ci nstant-video%2C417&sr=1-2

MIG welding is a lot easier to learn and I have 6 of these machines that my crew is using building steel structures. We've been using them for a year now with no failures and they are getting in a week what most hobbyest would put on them in a year. Use a good flux core wire in the .030 to .035" range and you should be good to go.

[Thundarstick]

O my Lord get a decent 220 MIG and call it a day!

Edit to say, I used, and learned, on a stick years ago, but don't have access to one anymore. I bought a harbor freight 110 and have built BBQ grills and griddles with it so far. It don't have the power to burn thick stuff sufficiently to get a strong wild, but I wouldn't go back to a stick!

[Winger Ed.]

It took me a bunch of practice to use a stick welder.
Once you learn it, there more rods available for doing different things than different kinds of wire for MIG.
My biggest problem was having the rod stick to the work, then heat up red hot and ruin the flux.

However; on simple steel stuff, a MIG is great, especially with the flux core wire.
You can teach someone the basics in about 30 minutes, and turn them loose.

On something new, I'll set the heat & wire speed hot enough to undercut beside the bead a little, then back it off until it 'looks pretty'.

If you get a MIG, I'd strongly recommend one that runs on 220, and has a name on it like Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart.
It'll have a longer duty cycle, and you won't outgrow it nearly as soon as the little 110 ones.

I had a 110 volt one for awhile and traded it off for a (gently) used Lincoln 190.
So far, doing mostly 1/8" to 3/8" projects- I haven't found myself thinking-- "Gosh, I sure wish I still had the little one'.

[elmacgyver0]

You can't beat a stick welder for repairing things around the farm.
I don't live on a farm anymore and most of my projects are more of a delicate nature, so I don't get much use out of my old buzz box.
I do most of my welding these days with a TIG and sometimes with my MIG.
I think a stick would be fine for building a trailer.

[littlejack]

My career from 1969 to 2009 consisted of just about all aspects of welding and fabrication in the in the trades. I started with stick welding, with the exception of flux core wire welding for certain jobs. Once you learn the stick welding, it would be easy, if a person has any dexterity at all. There are a great many stick rods available, but a person can get by with just a few. 6011, 7018, and jet would probably suffice for 95% of a person's home fabrication. The ( buzz) boxes will work, if you don't plan on alot of heavy welding.
Miller and Lincoln are good good brands. Yes, there are others. Moving on to the wire machines, I would get a 220 powered machine. I picked up a HF mig one time for odds and ends in my man cave. It wasn't worth the trouble hauling it home. In the early to mid 70's, wire welders were becoming very popular. In the production shops I worked in, either mig or duel shield ( Flux core and gas coverage) were mainly used, with duel shield taking the lead for high production. Hardwire (mig) is good if set up correctly. To cold and you get "cold lap" to hot and lots of splatter. Duel shield probably being the cleanest welding there is. Very strong, 70,000 pound tensile strength. But 7018 stick and mig wire are as strong. If you get a good mig (hardwire) machine, you will be able to build your trailer. But, there will be limitations in bead size. .025 - .030 - .035 size wires depending on the machines capabilities. Hope this help a little.
Regards and weld on.

[country gent]

there is one addition to the arc welder you want to buy or make. That is a rod storage box or heater as simple as a metal cabinet with a 30-40 watt light bulb burning in it. Damp rods from absorbing humidity give fits striking an arc. Keep your rods dry as possible.

My miller multi process does mig tig and arc. I usually prefer mig for most work no slag to chip easier to fill gaps. Arc will do what you want and will penetrate better on "dirty' metals.
You are correct on the 240 50 amp circuit starving the machine dosnt help it.

My storage cabinet is an old school locker with a golden rod dehumidifier in it. At the farm it was an old dorm size refrigerator with a 40 watt bulb in it. My locker has the vents sealed shelves for rods and wire spools and a rack for tig filler rods. I also store my consumable for the welder in it. This keeps them dry and in good shape.

A bit of advise put several outlets for it in the garage one on each side of the door and one part way down the wall. this gives some options when welding.

[gypsyman]

Been using a mig about 30 years. Started with a stick, still have my little buzz box Lincoln, haven't fired it up in decade's. Bought a Miller 211 about 8 years ago after wearing out a Snap On mig. Run it on 220, .030 wire. And since I only weld on mild steel, use CO2 for my gas. I'd never go back to a stick, wire is so much faster, real easy to learn.

[HWooldridge]

I started welding with an OA torch then moved to stick, followed by MIG and finally TIG. During that time, I built 4 trailers and used stick for all of them - but I had a Lincoln SA200 and a Miller Synchrowave to use, so it was easy to fine tune on DC. You should practice a lot before you try a trailer but it probably won’t be a problem once you have the reflex down pat.

[elmacgyver0]

I don't always use welders, but when I do, I have just about all the bases covered.
Being an old fart, I have had a lot of time to accumulate, but unfortunately probably not as much as time left to use them as I would like.
Who knows, maybe I will live forever.

[metricmonkeywrench]

The pros have the best advice, I learned on a Lincoln toumbstone cracker box. Once you get the feel for the heat and welding speed you should do ok. It’s just one of those things that either you can either do ok or not at first and get better with practice or not. Stick welders seem to show up often on the secondary market a lot. I now have a Montgomery Ward welder that can pretty much run any size rod but it sits idle 99% of the time. My go to for most household projects is a little flux core wire feed Lincoln picked up on clearance. It doesn’t have the setup to use gas but for what I do it doesn’t really matter. So far it’s fixed chairs, exhaust systems, mower deck and even a home made barn door roller track.

Probably the second most important thing to get is a 4in grinder. Build it up to stay and grind it down to look pretty. The horrible freight ones are pretty decent but folks seem to be gravitating to the cordless stuff these days.

[farmbif]

ive built lots and lots of things using literally hundreds of pounds 7018 and 6011or 6013 welding rods but a 200 amp mig welder with a tank of co2 argon mix or stargon is so much easier to lay stacks of dimes it almost doesn't compare. stick welding is easy, if you go that way just get some scraps of steel and practice doing rod length weld beads and people ive taught have gotten it down able to put down good strength welds in a long afternoon.

[HWooldridge]

It also helps if you can manipulate the weldment so you aren’t out of position as much. I have four steel “sawhorses” that help bring the work closer so I don’t have to kneel on the ground.

[DougGuy]

I have been behind a welding hood over 50yrs, built a crapload of trailers of all kinds, we used mig with .035" wire, and we also used some stick rods. Mig will go over 6010 really easily and neat too, it doesn't at all like welding over 7018 welds.

220 mig is a VERY good place to start, don't buy the cheapest one, buy what is most practical for the price. All the big boys, Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, make cheaper machines so HF doesn't cut them out of the lower end sales, these can be some pretty good machines. Google reviews and comments on forums, you can get a good idea of what to stay away from.

The other thing mig does not like is ANY torch slag, you have to have it ground off clean or it messes the weld up like right now. It doesn't like paint, oil, rust, galvanized, it will deliver the best results with clean steel, doesn't have to be ground shiny just clean, and yes it will weld better with shiny ground steel.

Stick is a lot more forgiving of the condition of the material to be welded. I have welded cracks in the hull plating on the side of a big scallop dredge in drydock with 6011 rods with diesel fuel running down the welding rod and burning on the ground.

[BLAHUT]

I’m looking into stick welding and need some advice. I’m completely new to this.
*
I was pretty good at acetylene welding auto body sheet steel when I was 17, and now 22 years later I’m considering a stick welder. The first thing I’m wondering about is safety precautions so I can keep feeding my three kids.
*
Purpose: I want to build a trailer frame with a 4-bar linkage that can mount a hand-operated earth auger. The 4-bar will be powered by a motor-driven hydraulic piston, or something similar. The trailer will mount to my riding lawn mower. Travel speed of the piston while digging will be slow - lifting the auger up to prevent the auger blade from screwing into the ground and getting stuck is more important.
*
I can design a strong frame and functioning machine, but I’m completely ignorant about welding the frame together.
*
The stick welder seems to be the most economical equipment set for welding 1/8”-1/4” steel From TSC. The cheap MIG welder from Harbor Freight has too many issues, but a stick welder is harder to goof up at the factory. I can get a quality MIG welder for $800 or a cheap, strong stick welder for $320. I will need a 40-50 amp 240V breaker in my garage, probably guarded by a lock box to keep curious kids away.
*
Any other thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated!

You should be able to take a few classes at the local vocational school and get all your questions answered along with trying the different types of fire glue.

[Winger Ed.]

Probably the second most important thing to get is a 4in grinder..

I couldn't agree more.

But using cut off wheels on them--- you do need to be careful ..........

Of all the years I've spent working in a fabrication/welding shop, and hacking around in the garage-
A shattered cut off wheel is the only thing that ever sent me to the Emergency Room.
That isn't me in the picture-- Of the ones I've shattered, it ate through a heavy welding glove and ran across the back of my hand.

[Three44s]

I suggest stick and a 90 degree right angle grinder.

You need to grind beveled edges where you are going to weld so as to (prep) improve penetration with your welds.

One rod stands out as a do all with mild steel and that’s 6011. It’s all position and it will work with AC or DC stick machines. 7018 is a fantastic rod for high strength welds but it exceeds the tensile strength of mild steel, it is also ornery to restrike the arc if you need to pause welding. You tell them what welder you have and the thickness of the stuff you are going to weld on and they should be able to tell you what size rod you need. My normal rod sizes are just two: 3/32” for light work and 1/8” for medium stuff. I like both, the smaller for a root pass and tacking pieces together and the heavier rod to “seal the deal”.

It’s probably more money now but 4 years ago my expensive electronic helmet went gunny sack. The welding supply store sold me a basic Weld Mark helmet for $100 (one third the price of my dead helmet) and it’s been a peach.

The auto electronic helmets are a must have! The Weld Mark is going away the best value and especially for a “hobby welder”. Do not mess with Harbor Freight and their “cheap” one).

Get some odds and ends of comparable steel to putter with. Use a chipping hammer and practice until you feel good. The alternative is get a neighbor friend with more experience to help you.

Three44s

[Winger Ed.]

The auto electronic helmets are a must have! The Weld Mark is going away the best value. Do not mess with Harbor Freight and their “cheap” one).

If you use one a lot, the cheap ones don't dim as fast as the good ones, and will lead to eye damage.

It's usually not like you'll go instantly blind, but over time you'll need more and more light to see things than you used to.

Years ago, I used a fixed tint glass lens type helmet.
An older welder borrowed it once and asked, "How can you see through this thing"?
I looked though his later on, and I think I have sunglasses darker than the lens he used for welding.

[john.k]

i been welding for 50+ years too....and the little shoebox size inverter welders are the most amazing thing Ive seen.

[littlejack]

I remember our rod lockers in the many shops that I worked in. Most of them were either refrigerators or upright freezers. Some had shelves added, or had all the shelves replaced allowing for the mutiple heavy boxes of rod.
Usually had a heat lamp and or bulb in the bottom to keep the rod dry. Now for the real treat; There was a few of us would bring tv dinners for lunch. About an hour before lunch, we would put our meals in the lockers to heat up. That worked really well. As a bonus, you could tell what meal/meals had been cooked when you were welding. The juices and sauces would drip down on the rod while cooking. Nothing like smelling the aroma of burnt enchilada sauce while making a beautiful vertical with 7018. :redneck:

[country gent]

I put a 2x lens in my welding helmet and it helps a lot.for me .

[Dave W.]

You have received some good advice, not much else I can add. If the metal is clean I prefer a Mig, easier to use. But if I want to be sure to get good penetration or the metal is dirty, rusty or painted, out comes the stick welder,with the correct rod it will burn through anything.

Stick welding is the hardest to learn, but once a person gets the hang of it, the other welding processes are much easier. Kind of like learning to drive. The people that learn on a manual transmission can use an automatic with no issues. But, most people that learn on an automatic transmission, never learn to drive a manual.

[justindad]

I couldn't agree more.

But using cut off wheels on them--- you do need to be careful ..........

Of all the years I've spent working in a fabrication/welding shop, and hacking around in the garage-
A shattered cut off wheel is the only thing that ever sent me to the Emergency Room.
That isn't me in the picture-- Of the ones I've shattered, it ate through a heavy welding glove and ran across the back of my hand.

Time to replace my cutoff wheel.

[wilecoyote]

yes, your eyes and fingers, etc. first_
If you could find these titles, especially Welder's Handbook, you won't be disappointed about the fundamentals, stick w. included.

[Wolfdog91]

Go right dead in the middle and get a decent multi process. Ran flux for a few years got tired of it for a few reasons. Went to school ran and used stick almost the whole time plus the last three or so years at home and finally said screw it and drop probably $640 all together on a multi process with the mix gas and regulator and haven't been happier. The ability to say hay I don't wanna spend all day with stick trying to weld some light stuff or hay I need some good heavy penetration and don't wanna lug around a bottle is absolutely AMAZING!
Don't get me wrong I love stuck and it's the "manly " way to weld but amn I'll tell you, burning rod for tacks gets annoying after a few hours .
This the one I got an im very pleased !

https://youtu.be/4DshWkAyZTE

And word of advice if your not gonna be welding every day and you have a harbor freight in town just go get a few of their 4 1/2" grinders . Give them you email and just return them when they burn up. I have four in my stand and each is ter up for something different and I have less in them then one DeWalt. Have one with a hard disk,one with a flap disk , one with a wire wheel and one with cutting disc. All I need to do is grab one and plug it in none of this taking 3min to change out discs. I've burned up mabye ... Three in the last five years put I just walked in gave them my email address and got a new one . ALOT better us of my time then trying to return a DeWalt.
Also look into getting a ole sugar scoop good and dropping the $59-100 for a auto dark lense. Sorry but those fixed shades are ...egh.... I can get two years out of a harber freid auto dark so that's what I'm doing right now

[Wolfdog91]

Also would say get yourself one of those little buzz box stickers that can run off of 110 and keep some /3/32 6011 around. I had a frobey easy weld I think I paid like $250 for a few years back at Tractor supply brand new and loved it. Could toss it in my car and had it under cars at deer stands front yard you name it I was generally pretty good as long as I had a decent extension cord. And with that 6011 ! 6011 is a beast of a rod once you really know how to work it. 80amps on a 100' extension cord had those little rods burning deep and hot ! And since their fast freeze you could go from heavy to light material really quick as long as you know how to work the puddle . Is it perfect? No but man it well definitely get stuff welded up and back to work !

[Three44s]

My preference for angle grinders has narrowed to only ones with paddle or trigger switches due to safety concerns.

Three44s

[Wolfdog91]

And I CANNOT reccomend enough you watch this guy! It's a old video but it's amazing informative. Been out of school for come up five years now and I still find my going back and watching ole Steve


https://youtu.be/FvvzjbibNsE

https://youtu.be/aPx--2cOuyA

[Wolfdog91]

Weld.com is another amazing source. Actual welders with decades of experience and they break stuff down Barney style

https://youtu.be/4MKuUICV6-c

[wilecoyote]

My preference for angle grinders has narrowed to only ones with paddle or trigger switches due to safety concerns.Three44s
...I would add that I've had a bad experience with my first (and last) cheap angle grinder: the disc didn't broke, but what kept it attached to the tool broke, and I had a flying disk.
Next day I bought a Bosch, ten times more expensive, which I still use today_

[Winger Ed.]

My preference for angle grinders has narrowed to only ones with paddle or trigger switches due to safety concerns.

I got those for the shop, and the model that doesn't have the set/lock feature.
We got most power tools from Grainger, and they offered 'em both ways.

Guys would say their finger got tired holding the trigger down, and wanted ones with the lock.
Nope. I figured if they were too tired to hold down the trigger---
they were too tired to use the grinder without getting sloppy and maybe hurt.

[wilecoyote]

the ones with the lock can work if in the hands of one owner only,
but if the tool is not battery-powered but connected to the mains, and available to several workers, the next may not notice that the machine will running as soon as he plug in, if the lock has not been deactivated by the previous user.

[Alstep]

Another consideration.

With a Mig welder, you need to have your work within 10 or 15 feet of the machine. The length of your cable that feeds your wire & gas is a limiting factor. The shop I worked for had a half dozen Miller MIG machines, and they all performed well. If we had a large project, there would be a machine on both ends, maybe another in the middle.

With a stick welder, you can run the cable quite some distance as long as the cable is heavy enough. For a big job, you can run the ground to the work near the welder. Then run your welding cable where ever its needed. Much more flexible for outdoor jobs and on the farm, and jobs where you can't get your welding machine near the work. This is where your portable gas powered machines have the advantage.

[Wolfdog91]

I got those for the shop, and the model that doesn't have the set/lock feature.
We got most power tools from Grainger, and they offered 'em both ways.

Guys would say their finger got tired holding the trigger down, and wanted ones with the lock.
Nope. I figured if they were too tired to hold down the trigger---
they were too tired to use the grinder without getting sloppy and maybe hurt.

After about an hour of grinding those get mighty tiring. Prefere a lock up over everything mainly because I do stuff in steps. Might be welding for two hours straight then bringing for two hours. Hand cramps are real , especially if you have tiny hands like me lol

[Winger Ed.]

Prefere a lock up over everything mainly because I do stuff in steps. Might be welding for two hours straight then bringing for two hours. Hand cramps are real , especially if you have tiny hands like me lol

Be safe. When your hands get tired, they're telling you it's time to take a break.

In the 90s, when I worked at the auto paint store, one of our body shop customers felt that way too.
He was using a grinder with the trigger set/locked. It 'bucked', jumped out of his hands, spun around, and disemboweled him.
But he did live long enough to say his good-byes to the other guys in the shop before the ambulance carried him away.

I'll admit-- am overly cautious with various things. I used to teach the safety & survival classes in the Service,
and for the 11 years I worked for the safe company. In all that time, I was the only one that ever got hurt on the job,
and it wasn't bad enough to need more than a couple stiches.

[Thundarstick]

Boy! You are getting a lot of great advice here!

Some of the best is coming from Winger Ed! You only get ten fingers, two ears, and two eyes. How you choose to risk them is up to you! Personally I never grind or use a cutting disk for even a minute without full face protection, long sleeves, and cut resistant gloves! I had a cutoff disk shatter on me recently and it skittered across my off hand. It ate my glove and left me with a few scabs, I'd likely had stitches if not for the glove!
My profession is medical and I've seen all kinds of nasty accidents from all kind of power tools. A few years ago a fella was building a porch rail for his aging mother, when a 4 1/2 inch grinding wheel burst. A piece hit him in the neck, severed his carotid artery, and he bleed out rite on his mother's front porch before the ambulance could get to him! Safely is a state of mind!

[Winger Ed.]

There was only a couple of guys in the shop I'd even let use the 10,000 rpm angle grinders.

I'd bundle up before I even plugged one in. I had a wheel shatter one time that the big chunk hit me dead in the chest.
It bounced off my leather welder's coat, it on came up, left a big trench right between my eyes in my face shield,
then stuck in a 16' high ceiling like a ninja star.

Guys would get mad I wouldn't loan them a grinder for "something quick". I'd tell 'em, 'I'll do it, or my assistant'.
They'd ask why, and I'd point to the half disc still stuck in the ceiling.

Most realized, and grasped what they were looking at, got that 'Oh **** expression', and said, "Oh..... OK".

[Froogal]

I own a mig welder. It works good for light duty stuff. I also own an oxy-acetylene set up, which is good for cutting and heating to make bends, etc., but my go to welder for heavy duty stuff is my Lincoln tombstone with 6011 rods.

[Three44s]

An angle grinder on the loose with a locked down switch is like a “loose nuke” in my opinion. They can come out of your control in a blink of the eye and cause irreparable harm.

Three44s

[Rapier]

I have had a bit of bad experience with Chinese crapola and Chinese fraud, you pay and no product. Think I will stick, no pun intended, to US made stuff, that I can get service and parts for.

[Three44s]

I own a mig welder. It works good for light duty stuff. I also own an oxy-acetylene set up, which is good for cutting and heating to make bends, etc., but my go to welder for heavy duty stuff is my Lincoln tombstone with 6011 rods.

We have a couple of 400 amp 3phase wire machines in our farm shop but the stick machine gets the most work until we get into real fabrication. As heavy wire feeds they can get right into heavy work with the right wire (Lincoln Outershield for instance) but you still fiddle around a certain amount getting set up for a given condition.

Three44s

[country gent]

With drill motors and grinders when you set up coil the cord and tie it off to just the length needed, this way if it grabs it also unplugs itself killing power. Long cords can be nice at times but can cause problems also.

[Froogal]

You have received some good advice, not much else I can add. If the metal is clean I prefer a Mig, easier to use. But if I want to be sure to get good penetration or the metal is dirty, rusty or painted, out comes the stick welder,with the correct rod it will burn through anything.

Stick welding is the hardest to learn, but once a person gets the hang of it, the other welding processes are much easier. Kind of like learning to drive. The people that learn on a manual transmission can use an automatic with no issues. But, most people that learn on an automatic transmission, never learn to drive a manual.

I guess I am old school. Growing up, every farm had a stick welder, and when I got into high school AG shop, a stick welder was all we had. Didn't know the mig welders and such even existed, so like I said, my old Lincoln tombstone machine is my go to welder.

[Dieselhorses]

I got those for the shop, and the model that doesn't have the set/lock feature.
We got most power tools from Grainger, and they offered 'em both ways.

Guys would say their finger got tired holding the trigger down, and wanted ones with the lock.
Nope. I figured if they were too tired to hold down the trigger---
they were too tired to use the grinder without getting sloppy and maybe hurt.

Being an NCCER instructor, one the first rules in "Intro to Power Tools" is NEVER use the trigger lock! Doesn't take that much energy to hold down a trigger.

[HWooldridge]

There was only a couple of guys in the shop I'd even let use the 10,000 rpm angle grinders.

I'd bundle up before I even plugged one in. I had a wheel shatter one time that the big chunk hit me dead in the chest.
It bounced off my leather welder's coat, it on came up, left a big trench right between my eyes in my face shield,
then stuck in a 16' high ceiling like a ninja star.

Guys would get mad I wouldn't loan them a grinder for "something quick". I'd tell 'em, 'I'll do it, or my assistant'.
They'd ask why, and I'd point to the half disc still stuck in the ceiling.

Most realized, and grasped what they were looking at, got that 'Oh **** expression', and said, "Oh..... OK".

Similar experience at a place I worked, except with a chuck key left in a lathe. The key flew out when the operator started the machine and stuck in the wall. I bought another key and left the one in the wall as a reminder.

There are all sorts of ways to get hurt if you aren’t careful.

[Rapier]

I have always had fabricators and real good welders at my elbow, now in the woods I am short of most help.
Say I wanted to install a full set of Lawn Chair Silhouette targets to create a functional LCS range on my functional range at my farm. What welding and cutting equipment would I need, this is a planned practice for welding frames barrels and parts in my shop also. The gun stuff, I need to make welding rods to match color, got that. This would involve target stands, targets, racks, etc. I have 220 single and three phase with a single converter in my shop.

[justindad]

Aside from guarding your body, how do you prevent a grinding wheel from breaking?

[MaryB]

I learned to stick weld on the farm many many years ago. Bought a multi process mig/tig/stick welder 2 years ago and taught myself mig welding and am a natural at tig(very similar to soldering which I have done for 55 years! Electronic repair as a career). Now I use tig a LOT with mig secondary. Don't even have any welding rods on hand! I will never weld anything thicker than 1/4 inch and most of what I do is 1/8 or thinner(like my mower deck I made a patch for the rusted out section, I was tired of it firing rocks up into the bottom of my arm!) Should have learned tig and mig years ago, they are really easy. I will never be an expert, my welds are not the pretty overlapping dimes you see in videos but they are functional and strong!

Picked up a self contained plasma cutter too. Can cut up to 1/4 inch which is plenty for my needs.

Both are the Northern Tool Klutch brand, welder is this https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200833067_200833067 the plasma is no longer available but was similar to this(but$400 cheaper) https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200647339_200647339

The smaller plasma works well for typical home repair, and could make 1/2 inch thick targets by doing multiple pass cutting(not as clean but it works). Friends use it on autobody stuff, I used it to patch my mower deck. And I have used it to cut some sheet aluminum for antenna projects.

[Winger Ed.]

Aside from guarding your body, how do you prevent a grinding wheel from breaking?

They are very brittle.

It happens most when you are tired,
but the least little bit of a twist or bend out of the plane they are spinning in will make them shatter.

This happens more easily if you have the wheel deeper down in the cut you're making.
I try not to have more than about the outer 1/8" of one in the cut.

Another real easy way to get hurt is using a cut off wheel like it's a grinder disc that's made to run flat on the surface.
Or using one like you would a chop saw.

[Winger Ed.]

What welding and cutting equipment would I need,

The first thing you might want is a decent size fire extinguisher--- don't ask me how I know.

I'd get a decent welder & good helmet, a DeWalt or Milwaukee sawzall with a hand full of good American made blades,
the Lincoln welding book sold at big box stores, a good angle grinder with some grinding, cut off, and wire wheels--
the ones that look like knotted steel cable made into the hub like wheel spokes.
Don't get the cheapest discs you can find-- they wear out real fast, and will bite you.
Nortons are OK, but the German made ones at a welding supply place are better-- and priced accordingly.

You'll want some heavy leather gloves, a face shield, GOOD safety glasses, and a fairly heavy coat.
Also, don't weld while wearing plastic or cloth shoes-- red hot welding splatter balls go right through them without cooling off.

[ascast]

I am currently welding for my paychecks. I cant add much. I use Millers industrial machines. Safety first. Glasses, face shield. I had an uncovered biceps the other night, now I have a blistering sunburn. Never felt it happening. Also, when you wire up the shop, you can use the same out let for welder that will/can be used to power up shop from generator during the power outage. Just a tidbit that will be handy.

[buckwheatpaul]

Aside from guarding your body, how do you prevent a grinding wheel from breaking?

I have never had a grinding wheel break....but I dont use junk from Harbor Freight.....make sure you wear safety glasses and hearing protectors.

[buckwheatpaul]

I am currently welding for my paychecks. I cant add much. I use Millers industrial machines. Safety first. Glasses, face shield. I had an uncovered biceps the other night, now I have a blistering sunburn. Never felt it happening. Also, when you wire up the shop, you can use the same out let for welder that will/can be used to power up shop from generator during the power outage. Just a tidbit that will be handy.

Like ascat I welded in a t-shirt....only one time as it was hot and I didnt think it would take that long....blistered through the white t-shirt...now only heavy long sleeve shirts or welding shirts from a welding supply.

[Froogal]

Like ascat I welded in a t-shirt....only one time as it was hot and I didnt think it would take that long....blistered through the white t-shirt...now only heavy long sleeve shirts or welding shirts from a welding supply.

Probably should not tell this story, but one hot summer day, shorts and flip-flop weather, I went to the shop just to retrieve something that I needed in the house, and there was that project I HAD been working on the day before. Okay, about 2 more minutes with the wire welder and that project would be done so I fired up the welder, and of course there is always that little ball of crud right on the end of the wire which sort of just explodes, and well, did I mention I was wearing flip-flops?

[Winger Ed.]

did I mention I was wearing flip-flops?

On one of the other forums, there was a guy whose screen name was 'hotfoot' for the same reason.

Years ago, I had a girlfriend whose ex-husband was a welder. He wore regular tennis shoes one day.
A slag puddle went straight down in one.
He couldn't dance around fast enough to keep from getting some instant 3rd degree burns.

[country gent]

We got a batch of Norton 1/2" x 8" x 1 1/4" extra porous wheels dont remember the grit.These were specials for grinding rubber rolls. When I mounted the first one I rang rested it, It rang like a bell. Check the blotters and mounted it up in the hub and balanced it. installed on the grinder. I started it on and off bringing it up to speed slowly. When I left it on I turned to get the Dresser it blew up. the next 2 were the same. The guard took a real beating.
On a hand held grinder there are even more things that can cause a wheel to let go. Setting the grinder down hard on the wheel can crack it, as can dropping it. Even pushing it to hard to long can damage it
I have seen mounted points blow when starting them in the die grinder. The cheap 1/8 shank points may bend and go way out of balance before you can dress them true. When starting a die grinder hold it under the bench top and if possible and dress it there to. Be aware of what your doing, and how you handle the grinders set them down on the gear box. RHe thinner the wheels get the easier to damage they are.

[alfadan]

Dont use brake cleaner on your parts to be welded. The extreme heat turns it to phosgene gas.

If you want an auto darkening helmet, get a decent one. When I bought my Lincoln, it was vert evident how lousy the Horrible Freight one was.

My stick welding got much better when I got in there and watched the arc; I was keeping too far back to see what I was doing.

[Mk42gunner]

I'm not normally a safety Nazi, but I will say that I have welded while wearing nylon jungle boots. Once.

It is no fun at all too try to stomp out a fire under your boat trailer while still smarting from spatter induced burns on your ankle. Oh and don't weld over dry grass. Just saying.

With that out of the way, the smoothest stick welder I have ever used was a Lincoln SA-200.

Robert

[john.k]

You cant beat the old Lincoln DC motor generator welders .....commonly called bullets..........Ive owned ,used ,bought an sold Lincoln bullets from the 150A upright to the SA800 ....I think the last Lincoln bullet was the red 250 Mk upright ,longtime favourite of TIG welders long after stick welding was obsolete in industry.

[MT Gianni]

I am 68 and have burnt rod for over 55 of them. Draw up what you want built and see what a local certified welder would charge to make it. You will get a great finished product. If you want to learn you should probably go through a lot of steel before you call yourself ready to go.

[MT Gianni]

The first thing you might want is a decent size fire extinguisher--- don't ask me how I know.

I'd get a decent welder & good helmet, a DeWalt or Milwaukee sawzall with a hand full of good American made blades,
the Lincoln welding book sold at big box stores, a good angle grinder with some grinding, cut off, and wire wheels--
the ones that look like knotted steel cable made into the hub like wheel spokes.
Don't get the cheapest discs you can find-- they wear out real fast, and will bite you.
Nortons are OK, but the German made ones at a welding supply place are better-- and priced accordingly.

You'll want some heavy leather gloves, a face shield, GOOD safety glasses, and a fairly heavy coat.
Also, don't weld while wearing plastic or cloth shoes-- red hot welding splatter balls go right through them without cooling off.

If you're wearing bibs and the burning smell continues when you move, check your knees for flames.

[MaryB]

Welder in town needed to weld a cracked truck frame then sleeve it. Rush job so he didn't put his leathers on... he was laying on his back under the truck welding above his body. Flannel shirt so semi fire resistant. Ball of slag popped and went down the shirt sleeve, tolled onto his chest and proceeded to brand him with a silver dollar sized burn. He came flying out from under the truck screaming, friend who had just walked into the shop asked why he smelled burning hair... I had grabbed an ice pack from the freezer of the beer fridge and was doing what I could but the burn was instant. It was a Friday night and we were going to work on some personal stuff off the clock(payment was beer!). That got put off a week as he went to the ER to get what he needed to treat a 3rd degree burn. His gloves would have saved him but he was in a rush and just grabbed a pair of leather work gloves that didn't cover the forearm. Left the shirt cuff wide open as a funnel...

[Winger Ed.]

Rush job so he didn't put his leathers on....

You only need to let your guard down for a second for an opportunity to get hurt.

It reminds me of something painted on the wall of a old hanger at Quantico that dated back to WWI.
It read
"Avaition is not inherently dangerous.
However; it is very unforgiving of even the slightest transgression".

[Winger Ed.]

If you're wearing bibs and the burning smell continues when you move, check your knees for flames.

I've always had a rather intimate relationship with fire.

One guy in the shop was actually a better welder than myself, but didn't do much of it.
We teased each other viciously for all the years we were there.
One day, he was welding 'something quick' and got a pretty decent size burn.

At that moment, he wasn't exactly in the mood for humor, especially my version of it.
I came in and asked, "Hey, what stinks? Are you slacking off on personal hygiene again"?

Quick as a cat, he said, "Oh yeah. Next time you get burned, we'll see if it smells like Lilacs and roses".

[Jeff Michel]

A decent AC buzz box and a couple pounds of 6013, a wire brush and a chipping hammer. Half hour of practice laying beads....... Remember steel likes to move when your welding, skip welds are your friend. Good luck and have fun.

[1hole]

Aside from guarding your body, how do you prevent a grinding wheel from breaking?

Hand held grinders are great tools but they do spin fast and that makes them potentially hazardous. How we use them matters!

I have a heavy duty but expensive DeWalt and 5 inexpensive but light duty Harbor Freight grinders; love 'em all. After all, it really IS convenient to have the wheels I will need for a job preloaded and ready to go. At some $10-12 (when on sale) makes H.F. grinders rational to do that.

I make no claim to be an expert in the use of the versatile 4-4 1/2 inch high speed grinders with thin (1/16 inch) cut-off wheels but I have used them quite often for years and without incidence. I attribute that to two things;

(1) I grind my way through each cut with a light hand. Letting the wheel smoothly move itself through the cut instead of trying to push it through by muscle power prevents the wheel developing an odd shaped scalloped edge that can easily jam in the kerf and produce a kick-back.

(2) I never willingly expose a thin cut-off blade/grinding wheel more than 1/8-1/4 inch through a cut of any thickness. Limiting the depth of cut greatly reduces the probability of the wheel binding in the kerf and instantly breaking into dangerous flying fragments.

[justindad]

My HART rotary tool has a cutoff wheel and a grinding wheel. I have a normal air powered RYOBI die grinder (very old), but I think I’ll save the big one for special jobs. Heck, maybe I’ll get a portable belt sander and see if I can’t forget about the die grinder. Sharpening hatchets is the only thing I’ve used a die grinder for over the last decade.
*
Is grinding welds flat needed to prevent early rust formation? For my homemade machines, beauty is not required. I don’t want sharp, cutting weld lines though.

[MT Gianni]

You should know when to make more than one pass, how to cut a groove on what you have and grind enough so that you have gap. You will grind about 25% of the time you spend welding.

[Winger Ed.]

Is grinding welds flat needed to prevent early rust formation?

I've found that rust doesn't really care what shape the steel is that it's growing on.

[john.k]

Never used a grinder -too slow- anything needed removing was arc gouging......gouge down to solid metal,fill up with weld.........when you gouge poor weld ,its full of slag and bubbles ,you simply wash away until solid metal appears.........When we did a big tank with CBI ,they would weld one shift ,gouge out faulty weld two shifts.........job went months overtime from poor welding,nearly sent us broke waiting for site access.

[littlejack]

An old saying we used to have when fixing someones screw up.
"Never enough time to do it right the first time, but always enough time to do it over again".

[MaryB]

Last time I used a buzz box was helping a friend dispose of a car. His landlord gave him 2 days to get rid of it and it was not road worthy in any way. Used the buzz box and rods to just burn it in half. It was the only tool we had on hand... nobody had extra cash to go buy a bunch of sawzall blades. Had the weder and some rods that had gotten wet so decided to get rid of them on the car! Had a nice inferno when the interior went poof LOL let it burn out and kept on melting metal. Frame was rusted thru already along with most of the floor so it was cut the roof, side areas above and below the doors. No engine or trans, gas tank was gone... it was a rusty old shell.

[45_Colt]

One thing to keep in mind regarding stick versus TIG/MAG, is the cost of gas. Needing to keep bottles around, possibly leasing them, then getting them refilled. Adds up quick.

Having done some welding, I can't see requiring MIG let alone TIG for a trailer. Stick that SOB.

45_Colt

[rockrat]

I am like Froogal, have OA, old Lincoln tombstone stick and a 110V wire. Seldom use the OA or the wire(still learning) and have a trailer to build and will use my stick welder. Built my car hauler about 50 years ago and didn't know what a Wire welder was.
My 4" grinder is a Makita I bought about 42 years ago, still works well
Don't use a cutting torch in dry grass, with no water with you. Lost my little brother years ago because of this.

[farmbif]

you dont want to grind your welds flat if you dont have to like to make some type of assembly fit together. your just removing strength from the joint unless you know for sure you have excellent penetration in the weld joint and your filler metal is stronger than what your welding together. Look at some high pressure weld joints, hydraulic cylinders, high pressure pipe welds, pressure tanks, ect. the weld joints are not ground flat. as a beginning welder learn how to lay a bead with the sticks your using and just remove the slag. if you worried about rust get some rust oleum and give it a coat of paint.

[Three44s]

Never used a grinder -too slow- anything needed removing was arc gouging......gouge down to solid metal,fill up with weld.........when you gouge poor weld ,its full of slag and bubbles ,you simply wash away until solid metal appears.........When we did a big tank with CBI ,they would weld one shift ,gouge out faulty weld two shifts.........job went months overtime from poor welding,nearly sent us broke waiting for site access.

I assume you are referring to a carbon arc torch for the gouging.

To not use a grinder to clean surfaces cut by a carbon arc is to invite bad welds going back. The residual carbon from the cutting rods cause a lot of welding porosity.

Carbon arc is a great tool but it has certain quirks about it. It’s a great fire starter as well.

Three44s

[DougGuy]

Having done some welding, I can't see requiring MIG let alone TIG for a trailer. Stick that SOB.

45_Colt

I don't know how much welding you have done or how many trailers you have built but mig is 4x faster than any stick, it is MUCH easier to weld vertical than stick, knowing the advantages of mig over stick makes stick a poor choice for something that a mig makes a snap out of.

[megasupermagnum]

There is one factor I haven't seen mentioned, and that is welding outside. If you own a decent sized shop, then absolutely it's hard to beat a MIG. It really is just like a metal glue gun. The problem is the G in MIG is gas. In even the most gentle of winds that gas can blow away and you get very ugly pop corn welds. If you don't own a shop, then I can only assume you will be building the trailer in a driveway or similar. You can put up curtains, and wait for good weather days. You can even buy flux core wire, but I don't really like that stuff as much as solid wire and argon gas.

Stick welding by comparison is simpler. DC stick welders are great, but you don't see them too often. At that point most people today just go TIG. AC stick welders are still around for cheap as you know, and they are a little trickier to use. The good thing though is when you get a decent looking weld, you can be assured that thing is strong as can be. There's really no such thing as making a pretty and weak weld with an AC stick welder like beginners often do with MIG's. Being as welding rods are flux coated, they are the ideal choice for welding outdoors. Another reason you still see buzz boxes on farms is they are more tolerant of rust with the right rods.

I'm not a welder, never worked as a welder, I just know how to stick, MIG, and TIG weld good enough to do general fabricating. For building a small trailer I think you will be just fine with a basic AC stick welder. The speed of the machine is no concern, and really stick welding is not that terribly slow. The only real trick is you can't see your puddle that well, so you kind of have to just figure out the right look though the slag. If you mess up and have to grind it out and weld a second time, oh well. It's a riding tractor trailer, it isn't like you are taking it to the moon. Definitely go with the 240v welder though. 120v welders just aren't good for much.

Some general quick tips I can give. Your floor or driveway will not be flat, and the ends of your cut metal is not square. When welding two pieces together use a single flat block (such as a small 8" section of the same square tube you are using) to support them. That way you know those two pieces are on the same level plane on that corner. Then trust your square for angles.

As for the power outlet, probably no need for a cover. A lot of times they will have their own disconnect, and even if not, just flip the breaker. Have it mounted high. I don't know of any NEC code for garage outlet height. There very well could be local regulations. You should be fine mounting them 5 foot from the floor. Definitely don't mount them low where dirt and water get into them. I would go for 50A outlet which is pretty standard today. Welders are a little goofy with their own section of code. You get away with smaller wire than you would think. Lots of people go as small as 30A outlets, but I see little reason to. The cost difference isn't that great, and then you are covered for most welders you would ever encounter with a 50A.

[country gent]

One pointer thats a big help starting out is to watch a good welder lay some beads. nit from a distance but under a helmet, you watch the arc puddle and movement of the rod. Then when your practicing try to duplicate this. Looking over his shoulder will give you a close view of this and teach you what to look for. Also listen to the arc its sound will tell you a lot

[Winger Ed.]

One of the guys that taught me said to listen for the sound of frying bacon and keep it going for the entire bead.

[oger]

I spent my whole working life as a Boilermaker Welder in an Oil Refinery. We spent 3 years learning how to weld and were still learning from experience for years after. Buy a good buzz box and don't try to do too much.

[Winger Ed.]

I did it on the job for 11 years modifying, repairing, or restoring safes.
I never really stopped learning something the whole time I was there.

I always figured it was one of those deals like racing motorcycles or flying an airplane: The more you do it, the better you get.

[littlejack]

When I started in the trade in 1969, my dad gave me the best advice I ever heard; He said "listen to the old hands". I did exactly that. I was eager to learn and soaked up all instruction and details like a sponge. I started at General Trailer building machinery trailers. From 50 ton to 100 ton low-boys. Built completely out of T-1 steel. I found the best Low-Hi man in the shop, and stuck to that guy like glue. When I left there 4 years later, to a better paying job, there wasn't anyone in the shop that could out weld me. Men with confidence in their work, are willing to teach if you ask. Those without confidence, and are afraid of being outdone, not so much. And a definate "yes" on listening to what your weld is saying. It talks.

[deltaenterprizes]

I would recommend one of these: https://smile.amazon.com/MIG-140GS-Lift-TIG-Inverter-Compatible-Aluminum/dp/B08M6HWTG8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1J5C9HXY5ER8G&keywords=140-Amp+MIG%2FMAG%2FLift-TIG%2FStick+Arc+Combo+Welder%2C+100%25+Duty+Cycle% 2C+Compatible+Spool+Gun+SPG15180+Weld+Aluminum&qid=1672177547&s=instant-video&sprefix=140-amp+mig%2Fmag%2Flift-tig%2Fstick+arc+combo+welder%2C+100%25+duty+cycle% 2C+compatible+spool+gun+spg15180+weld+aluminum%2Ci nstant-video%2C417&sr=1-2

MIG welding is a lot easier to learn and I have 6 of these machines that my crew is using building steel structures. We've been using them for a year now with no failures and they are getting in a week what most hobbyest would put on them in a year. Use a good flux core wire in the .030 to .035" range and you should be good to go.
That is an amazing machine for the price!

[DougGuy]

When I started in the trade in 1969, my dad gave me the best advice I ever heard; He said "listen to the old hands". I did exactly that. I was eager to learn and soaked up all instruction and details like a sponge. I started at General Trailer building machinery trailers. From 50 ton to 100 ton low-boys. Built completely out of T-1 steel. I found the best Low-Hi man in the shop, and stuck to that guy like glue. When I left there 4 years later, to a better paying job, there wasn't anyone in the shop that could out weld me. Men with confidence in their work, are willing to teach if you ask. Those without confidence, and are afraid of being outdone, not so much. And a definate "yes" on listening to what your weld is saying. It talks.

Haha we started about the same time. I lied about my age in 1970 and got into the steel shipbuilding and welding school at the Ingalls West Bank shipyard, by the time they caught me I was 18 and they let me stay. I worked for a little while in the shell shop building sections of ship's hull, then we got USN contracts and I moved to the flats and we started the first innerbottoms of DD963 the first Spruance Class destroyer. It was a GREAT place to learn, there were plenty of old guys most of which made leadman and they ran the crews, they were always there to help with questions about blueprints, and as expected there were plenty of snafu's with starting up a new shipyard. That was my start. I left there as a burner and with a hand torch had already built a skillset and a reputation in the yard for being one of the best they had. At age 19.

Back then a lot of yards had craft jurisdiction and the fitters and welders didn't touch a torch, this was a specialty trade where only those good enough and/or gifted with a torch could be burners. That was my meal ticket, and my ticket to ride all in one. I traveled for many years worked many different places and learned a LOT about steel fabrication and welding that I would not have gotten exposed to had I stayed at one job. Shipyards, oil rigs, offshore in the Gulf of Mexico, pressure vessel shops, custom truck shops, refineries, chemical plants, paper mills, power plants, trailer shops, finally got smart and moved into pharmaceutical fitting and welding stainless pipe and tubing, clean, light weight work, then came cancer and retirement....

These days I enjoy rebuilding equipment buckets, they require the heavy thick metal welding skills like pressure vessels, and we use a lot of T1 in these as well. Good stuff!

This is my work about 2yrs ago with a torch I bought many moons ago at a pawn shop for $25, still got the touch..

308657

[45_Colt]

I don't know how much welding you have done or how many trailers you have built but mig is 4x faster than any stick, it is MUCH easier to weld vertical than stick, knowing the advantages of mig over stick makes stick a poor choice for something that a mig makes a snap out of.

For a production shop I agree with you. But this is a guy that wants to build one trailer...

45_Colt

[country gent]

After recent events here when you builf your trailer get it up on jack stands and BACK THEM UP WITH SOLID BLOCKING. Be safe any thing mechanical can fail have a back up there in place. A solid pedestal of heavy timbers with each stand may save you.

[lancem]

That is an amazing machine for the price!

Yes I think so. I was doing my end of year looking at things and through the 6 machines I have we have put over 200# of .035 flux core wire through them this year. That's a lot of welding.

[littlejack]

DougGuy
My biggest regret was not taking pictures of what I had built during my career. I also was very good with a torch. So much so that when one of the shops I worked in wanted to start a burning department, I got the job. At first, everything was cut by hand, then they bought a Linde PC 750 six head burning machine. I could burn up a 8' x 20' sheet of half inch plate into screw flites for augers, in just a few hours.
That machine also had an attachment for a single plasma torch for burning stainless steel flites or whatever else was needed. Great memories. It was a very rewarding trade, I enjoyed it very much. Learned something most every day.
Oh, by the way. Nice torch job.

[MaryB]

For a production shop I agree with you. But this is a guy that wants to build one trailer...

45_Colt

There MANY uses for a welder for a homeowner who has any property to maintain... lawn equipment repairs, fences, car repairs if it is a hobby... I learned to weld aluminum last year, now getting requests from other ham radio operators to have antenna stuff welded for them. I make a little cash on the side doing it...

[downzero]

It looks like everything that could be said had basically already been said here. There is nothing wrong with a stick welder for the proposed use. Like others, I prefer MIG. Mine is a Hobart 210. I use .035" wire for heavier metal and Co2 as shielding gas. It's been a long time since I stick welded but I could probably do the job just fine with that if I had to.

[45_Colt]

One item that is very important, is to throw away, get rid of, don't allow on the property: any chlorinated solvents. The most common is BrakeKleen in the red can. They are also used in MAF cleaners and so on.

The reason is that the vapors in the presence of UV light from welding will at the minimum created phosgene gas. Same stuff used during WW1 in warfare.

At the worst, a chlorinated solvent in the presence of argon (a shielding gas) and UV from welding creates hydrogen cyanide. You won't even know what hit you.

BrakeKleen in the green can is OK, and is one of the few solvents I have here in the shop and garage.

45_Colt

[HWooldridge]

308694

One of my sons and I built this carport over the last four days, starting with bare ground Tuesday morning. We drilled holes and set the posts, then I welded the purlins and we finished the sheet metal yesterday evening (my son is a great worker but never liked to weld). I started welding with a portable DC machine but the engine died Wednesday morning so we rigged an extension cord and finished the rest of it with the Lincoln crackerbox show in the pic. Everything was stuck using E6011 3/32 and 1/8 rod - beads were run in all positions, which is what these rods are rated for.

I prefer DC for most work but AC saved the project and prevented me from having to rent a rig. I have built four pole barns with this same little machine, which I bought sometime in the early 1980's. Stick works fine for this type of fabrication - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[littlejack]

I told one of my co-workers one time to get me some eleven o nine 1109 rod. He looked at me with a funny look, and said, "We don't have any of that". I picked up a rod of 6011 and turned it end for end, and said, "Oh yes we do". Lol

[1hole]

Just a few thoughts about what welder you may actually "need".

I'm a home hobby shop "handy-man" who repairs and fabricates a lot of things in wood and metal. I'm not a professional repair shop or welder; don't want to be and never will be.

About 15 years ago I finally decided to get a modest welder and, for several reasons, including ease of use, I knew it should be MIG. I knew I'd rarely need to weld anything thicker than 1/4". I also wanted to be able to easily use my smallish welder on aluminum (with gas) and do it all in places where 220 VAC would not always be available. With all that in mind I chose the biggest 110 VAC Lincoln carried by H'Depot and have never looked back.

For the two occasions I have actually needed heavier welds than my machine could handle I first wire brushed rust off the surrounding steel joints. Then I tacked the parts together the way I wanted them and took the prepared assembly to a pro welding shop where, for a very modest price, they stick welded my thick parts perfectly.

[alfadan]

I have a Lincoln 120volt MIG that can also do flux core (though I got a mig to get away from flyx core). A long lease on the bottle is way cheaper than year to year. I wish I had bought at 220v so may trade up.

For stuff more than 1/4", I have a stick and only use 6011 rods which are very forgiving.

[Winger Ed.]

A long lease on the bottle is way cheaper than year to year.

Here, if you don't need gas very often, there is what I call 'owner size'.
They're smaller than rental or lease tanks, but when it's empty, you just swap it out.
You don't get it refilled and don't have to pay for the test when it comes due.

[elmacgyver0]

The welder I use the most these days is a TIG welder, but I don't recommend it for building things like trailers.
A good stick welder is best for that, or a good MIG, I would still lean towards the stick as it is what I grew up with.
With a stick, you can both weld and cut metal, although it may not be the most cleanest cut in the world.
These days I use a plasma cutter or metal bandsaw, but then I am almost 72 years old and had a lot of time to accumulate my tools which I am still adding to.
An AC/DC TIG welder is a joy to use, I started with a little red HF scratch start that worked very well until a lightning strike fried it.
I got an Eastwood 200-watt AC/DC TIG for Christmas from my wife (told her what I wanted) a few years ago.
It even welds aluminum! success on the first try! Funny thing is I have not welded anything aluminum for myself yet.
Welders are addictive, I have six that I can think of at the moment, seven if you want to count the plasm cutter.
Funny thing is I am no welder, just a hobbyist. Go figure.

[justindad]

One item that is very important, is to throw away, get rid of, don't allow on the property: any chlorinated solvents. The most common is BrakeKleen in the red can. They are also used in MAF cleaners and so on.

The reason is that the vapors in the presence of UV light from welding will at the minimum created phosgene gas. Same stuff used during WW1 in warfare.

At the worst, a chlorinated solvent in the presence of argon (a shielding gas) and UV from welding creates hydrogen cyanide. You won't even know what hit you.

BrakeKleen in the green can is OK, and is one of the few solvents I have here in the shop and garage.

45_Colt

I did not know that. Thank you.

[farmbif]

welding and collecting welding gear is addictive. Ive also got a collection, 2 miller trailblazer 250's, a Lincoln ranger 8,a miller hf251, a millermatic 200, an airco mig tig stick welder, an old craftsman ac stick welder, a Lincoln power mig 250, a cobramatic king cobra, and 3 prince xl spool guns. I used to have a spool gun welder that ran off of a pair of car batteries but a relative of mine made it disappear. this is what happens when an influential grandfather tells his grandson to learn a trade and makes him go to summer welding school at a very young age.
speaking about dangers I had a friend who died a terrible death of lung cancer supposedly caused by his daily use of a plasma cutter cutting up aluminum sheets with no breathing protection.

[triggerhappy243]

WOW.............. 100 posts in just a few days. And lots of good recommendations too. I can attest, that any mig welding, the steel needs to be rust and dust free. Welding rusty steel? 6011 a/c rod. I have a lincoln A/C 225 crackerbox, and recently purchased HF titanium 140 mig welder. Still learning with the mig. It has it's bennies as well as limitations. In my opinion, If you are a new welder with little to no personal welding experience, learn how to stick weld first. Welding rod is cheaper than welding wire. I have 2 trailer builds I need to do starting after the spring thaw. And I will be using my stick welder for all the structural welds.

[Winger Ed.]

died a terrible death of lung cancer supposedly caused by his daily use of a plasma cutter cutting up aluminum sheets with no breathing protection.

I never tested the system, but I've heard welding and torching on Galvanized ain't much better for ya.

[john.k]

Where I was they used to arc spray zinc with 400A torches......the air was always blue with fumes ........boss says no need to wear a mask,just drink lots of milk.......But that had nothing on the dust from the collectors.....it was so fine ,it would simply run through four thicknesses of overalls like some kind of solvent ,and stain your skin black...(probably shouldnt say that.)

[oger]

The Zinc in Galvanize will flat make you sick like a real bad flu. We had to be real careful working with it. Plasma cutters can get in trouble real fast I was required to wear breathing equipment with a lot alloys using a plasma cutter.

[john.k]

I used to cut up steel stands with zinc paint 1/2 " thick on them......the zinc balls up and small flaming comets of zinc fly off and burn you......then I had to burn back the zinc enough to weld the stands into new configurations for the latest job at the refinery......like blasting and painting the huge shields that hold 747 tires to keep ships clear of the wharves.

[dverna]

Just a few thoughts about what welder you may actually "need".

I'm a home hobby shop "handy-man" who repairs and fabricates a lot of things in wood and metal. I'm not a professional repair shop or welder; don't want to be and never will be.

About 15 years ago I finally decided to get a modest welder and, for several reasons, including ease of use, I knew it should be MIG. I knew I'd rarely need to weld anything thicker than 1/4". I also wanted to be able to easily use my smallish welder on aluminum (with gas) and do it all in places where 220 VAC would not always be available. With all that in mind I chose the biggest 110 VAC Lincoln carried by H'Depot and have never looked back.

For the two occasions I have actually needed heavier welds than my machine could handle I first wire brushed rust off the surrounding steel joints. Then I tacked the parts together the way I wanted them and took the prepared assembly to a pro welding shop where, for a very modest price, they stick welded my thick parts perfectly.

This has been a great thread with a lot of good input.

The reason I quoted this one post is the word "need". It is good advice. Do you buy a machine that will cover 100% of what may come up, 98%, or 95%? As in most cases, it gets a lot more expensive to cover more and more bases.

If "one size fits all" we would not have dozens of reloading presses to choose from. Welders are much the same with the added complexity that you are not doing one task. Different metals, clean or painted or rusted, thick or thin etc etc.

I am looking at getting a welder so this thread has helped me a lot. At 72, I am not looking at making this a career or a part time job. I need to be able to build some simple stuff and do repairs. Also not interested in spending a year to learn to weld. Looks like MIG is the way to go for me.

Looking at this little "toy"

https://www.amazon.com/MIG-130A-Voltage-Inverter-Welding-Soldering/dp/B07WPXLST1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1Q9KF0VI0PTEV&keywords=Amico+mig+welder+%5C&qid=1672572302&s=hi&sprefix=amico+mig+welder+%2Ctools%2C135&sr=1-4

Reviews say they have done up to 1/4" thick and that should meet 98% of my needs.

[country gent]

A lot of getting good welds is in the metal prep and fitting, When to clean how deep and wide a vee to grind ( some welders prefer a u shaped groove also) how many passes, Clamping and holding is another thing that takes some planning

[Armorer77]

I have a small 220V MIG , rated for 1/4" , you can exceed that limit a lot by pre heating your metal . Ed

[Winger Ed.]

Reviews say they have done up to 1/4" thick and that should meet 98% of my needs.

It's a toy about as much as a gun is.

It'll do 1/4 inch, or maybe thicker, however; when it's turned up high enough to do it, it'll probably have a 10% duty cycle.
That means you can run it 1 minute, then let it cool down for nine.

Another thing with the 'Brand X' stuff is parts and consumables can be hard to find. (tips, nozzles, gun triggers, cable liners, etc.)
Something else to check on is how, or where you can get it worked on.

[Three44s]

It’s gotta be the “cool” factor with these little MIG welders that sells them.

I have two baby MiGs, two big ones, several stick welders including the portables. 90%of the time I chose stick!

Three44s

[justindad]

For all the folks leaning toward MIG, my dad was a top Tinsmith at GM, and he was surprisingly impressed with this unit my brother purchased:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CP9CDVQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[justindad]

I am indebted to all the excellent advice on here. My days of OA welding are grabbing my emotional processing center and I am learning towards stick welding. I’m sure a set of torches are in my future, as soon as my little ones can behave around the tanks.

[farmbif]

that 130 amp welder on amazon has 60% duty cycle at 130 amps(full power) must be the new technology that allows that. it will get you started and on your way joining metals.. I didn't learn mig in school only stick and tig and when I bought my first mig machine it took only minutes to get great welds and I was hooked.
one thing about stick and flux core is you can get into tighter spaces than a mig gun with copper gas shield covering the contact tip.
ac buzz boxes are inexpensive and 6011 or 6013 rods are probably a lot less expensive per pound than spools of flux cored wire. and you dont have to buy contact tips and keep them on hand.

[john.k]

The inverter welders are magic,and cheap too.......best thing about them is they dont mind extension cords........some 25 years ago ,the crowd I was working for bought an early inverter ,an Esseti.....cost over $2000,and would need a $400 repair every six months.....but still magic......you could weld building frames while on a ladder,holding the welder in one hand and welding with the other..............back in the day,inverters wouldnt work off small generators,and wouldnt work where there was big phase shift in the power........in this instance Tyco ,where they spiral welded 3/4 steel pipe in one pass with over 3000amps.