Tore the rim off a 223 case and it is stuck in the die

[FISH4BUGS]

OK...OK...just use a stuck case remover tool, right. WRONG!
In sizing and decapping my 223 cases using copious amounts of Dillon Case Lube, I had one case on the up stroke of the Dillon 550 tear the rim off and the case is stuck in the die.
The problem is that the decapping pin and rod is still stuck in the case and the decapping pin is showing through the primer hole.
How can I get this case out? I have the stuck case remover tool but can't get the proper place to drill it out - like the primer pocket.
THOUGHTS?

[garandsrus]

You need to pull the depriming rod high enough into the case so you can use the case removal tool. However, you will also need to cut off the bottom of the case and take the depriming rod out of the case after it is loose in the die.

You should be able to move the depriming rod by turning the nut at the top of the die.

[Kylongrifle32]

Will the decapping/expanding rod not adjustable?
You should be able to adjust the rod up to the top of the case body. It will not go into the neck but this will give you enough room to drill into the primer pocket.

[MUSTANG]

Post pic so issue is clear. I think garansrus is on correct suggested path.

[FISH4BUGS]

You need to pull the depriming rod high enough into the case so you can use the case removal tool. However, you will also need to cut off the bottom of the case and take the depriming rod out of the case after it is loose in the die.
You should be able to move the depriming rod by turning the nut at the top of the die.

Excellent suggestion. I freaked out and did not think anything would move at all.
It never occurred to me that the decap rod/pin would move.
Too bad work gets the in way of all this great reloading hobby!
Thanks for the thoughts. I will give it a try tonight.

[pertnear]

It's real simple. Take the whole die out & send to Dillon. Done!

[sse]

Buy Lee dies next time. Then you remove decapper and pound out stuck case.
Ask me how I know

[1Hawkeye]

You should be able to remove the decaping rod assembly from the top of the die or at least get it far enough away from the tap of the stuck case remover don't cut off the case head as was suggested because then you'll really be up the creek.

[beechbum444]

Send it back to manufacture for polishing…

[Ajax111]

You really don't say what brand of dies you are using? If they are Dillon dies, I believe the die has a built in way to remove a stuck case. It should have the directions in the die information or on their website. I'm not sure all the Dillon dies do, but mine does.

[Winger Ed.]

I've removed the die, drilled & tapped a 1/4-20 hole through the primer hole.

Run a nut up on the bolt, stack some washers on that are larger dia. than the case, then screw the bolt into the case.

Turn the nut down and it will usually pull the case up though the washers.
Once it comes out about 1/4", it will just drop on out.

If you've cut the base of the case off--- now you're in the trick bag, and it will get much more interesting.

[nuclearcricket]

What has happened to you just sucks, been there a few times. Dillon lube is good stuff but you have to let the alcohol dry off otherwise you will stick cases. Back the decaping rod off as far as you can and then drill and tap the case for the case remover and you should be ok. There is a chance you will need a new decaping pin, but then its always a good idea to keep a few on hand. If by some off chance the stuck remover doesn't work and its really really stuck another solution is to cut the head off and remove the decaping rod. You can then run an 8MM tap up into the case and use a pin and arbor press to press out the stuck case. If you don't have access to a press a little fudging around with a vice will acomplish the same thing. Just don't run the tap in too far, just enough that it has a good bite on the inside of the case and it should slide right out. I have not done this with a .223 but did manage to stick 2 300bo cases in a row. Needless to say I was not a happy camper but I got the cases out and didn't do any damage to the die. For the 06 and 308 class cases, a 7/16-20 tap works very well.
I don't consider anyone an experienced reloader until they have stuck at least one case.
Sam

[garandsrus]

You should be able to remove the decaping rod assembly from the top of the die or at least get it far enough away from the tap of the stuck case remover don't cut off the case head as was suggested because then you'll really be up the creek.

You missed the "after it is loose in the die" part, meaning the case is un-stuck and you are holding it in your hand, with the decapping rod also loose but still stuck in the case. The decapping rod won't come out of the case neck without force since the neck has been sized smaller than the expander button. The easiest thing to do is cut off the bottom of the case (holding the decapping rod at the top of the case) and then just take the rod out through the open case bottom.

[dogrunner]

It my be that he is down to the point that the remaining solution is to carefully collapse the case sidewalls and attempt to remove it by judicious application of needle nose pliers!..........I have been in precisely his position and with the same caliber.......RCBS dies in my instance.....Flattened out one side of a punch, sharpened the tip and VERY carefully applied it to the case stub........took a few tries but I eventually managed to get enough wall collapsed to get a firm grip. Polished that die and it is still in use today.

That experience led me to never use that spray on crap again. Best stuff I've found is the RCBS lube.........never an issue with that!



Meant to mention that my experience was with a 550 as well, and it is not the machine's fault but the lube itself!

[Czech_too]

I've used Winger Ed's method more than once. It works.

[Milky Duck]

if the decapping rod is still inside case....can he not just undo the nut on top holding this rod in place and GENTLY tap it down with the decapping pin sticking out through primer pocket??? the expander ball will be sitting against the base of case and should pop it right out....will then need to carefully cut brass case in half to get the decapping rod out of it,but will be up and laughing again in ne time....

[truckjohn]

Send it back to Dillon. They'll sort it out for you. The die probably needs a bit of polishing.

Don't leave it or the empty case will rust the die.

[Minerat]

...undo the nut on top holding this rod in place and GENTLY tap it down with the decapping pin sticking out

Did that once and bent the rod so then had to get a new rod and pin. Was down a week waiting for it to get to the house.

[Tim357]

What has happened to you just sucks, been there a few times. Dillon lube is good stuff but you have to let the alcohol dry off otherwise you will stick cases.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This 100%. Had the same thing happen. Took me a while to catch on. I use now mink oil on my fingers, or Hornady Unique lube

[Milky Duck]

Did that once and bent the rod so then had to get a new rod and pin. Was down a week waiting for it to get to the house.

there is old story about mechanics...the young fella will swing on heap of different tools going up in size to get off a siezed nut,the old guy with lots of grey in his beard will spray it well with CRC etc and go away to have smoko and come back and undo it with minimal force...
drop whole shebang in a cup of diesel oil overnight before trying to tap it out gently....

[Baltimoreed]

Had to drill and tap too many of those darn stuck cases over the years. Keep my ‘case removal kit’ parts in the top drawer of my machinist tool box. I use a socket on the die to tighten the nut against to pull the case out of the die.

[jmorris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4WrGnrJn2E

Start around 1:25 in. No drill, no tap, need two wrenches or a socket and a wrench is easier than what is shown in the video.

[FISH4BUGS]

I pulled the decap pin out,. Good start. Drilled out the brass.
Well, I started the process and my tap broke in half right in the middle of the process.
I am so sick of cheaply made tools from China.
I need to get another tap so I can move forward.
Also when drilling out the brass I hit the end of the decapping rod and that needs to be cleaned out before I can put a new decap pin.
I am beginning to like factory ammo more and more.
...and that is after 40 years of casting and reloading.
Sometimes I wonder why I even try........

[rancher1913]

i feel your pain. had a 223 broke of in a lee trim die and was able to drill it out but it never was right, spent a little more money and got a dillon trim die and so far haven't had a problem.

[jmorris]

I pulled the decap pin out,. Good start. Drilled out the brass.
Well, I started the process and my tap broke in half right in the middle of the process.
I am so sick of cheaply made tools from China.
I need to get another tap so I can move forward.
Also when drilling out the brass I hit the end of the decapping rod and that needs to be cleaned out before I can put a new decap pin.

Yeah, the the built in stuck case remover on Dillon rifle dies is a lot easier, even if you have a good tap.

Lee is another brand of die that makes removing a stuck case a simple job vs drilling and tapping.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWkfTT_A-1Y

[garandsrus]

I pulled the decap pin out,. Good start. Drilled out the brass.
Well, I started the process and my tap broke in half right in the middle of the process.
I am so sick of cheaply made tools from China.
I need to get another tap so I can move forward.
Also when drilling out the brass I hit the end of the decapping rod and that needs to be cleaned out before I can put a new decap pin.
I am beginning to like factory ammo more and more.
...and that is after 40 years of casting and reloading.
Sometimes I wonder why I even try........

What size hole are you tapping? I use a 1/4x20 tap. I can’t imagine breaking that while tapping brass.

[uscra112]

That experience led me to never use that spray on crap again. Best stuff I've found is the RCBS lube.........never an issue with that!

AMEN, Brother!

[Winger Ed.]

Well, I started the process and my tap broke in half right in the middle of the process.
I am so sick of cheaply made tools from China.
.

I get my taps and drill bits from Rex Tool Supply or McMaster-Carr, they have the good stuff.

I'd have guys in the shop that knew better break taps.
They'd look at me with that, 'It wasn't my fault' look.
I'd nod and tell them they were obviously using too much oil, and taking it out too often to clean the chips.

Taps are about as brittle as a glass rod. If you broke even a junky one in brass--
I'd guess you got it off of being aligned/vertical and it tried to bend,,,,,,,, none will do that.

[Harter66]

A recent reminder for me thankfully it was just 45 ACP .

New dies or deep cleaned , lube them with your preferred lube before you ever run the first over lubed case in them . If it's not making goobers or dents it's not over lubed .

I don't know if it's just the current absolute volume or something about the geometry but I I've read 10/1 stuck cases from guys I considered "old salts" with stuck 223 cases . It may be a geometric issue or the demand being so high that some minor finish detail is being skipped but 223 seems to have become the stuck king of the world . The only case I've actually stuck , including the 45 ACP "what were you thinking" incident in about 15 years was a 223 . Twice in 2 different dies of different ages ....... Every case I stuck before that was all on me .

[Winger Ed.]

223 seems to have become the stuck king of the world ..

I think it's due to the volume of them being reloaded.
If I stick one case in 2,000-- doing 7.62NATOs or.30-06 by 2-3 hundred at a time takes me longer to reach that average than .223s.
I usually do them in batches of 1,000, or at least 500.

[country gent]

Cartridge brass is tough to tap do to its springiness, you need to use the back and forth rotation more often to clear all the material. The part of the case your tapping isnt supported in the die so it expands under cutting force then contracts as it drops pinching the tap. Do the back and forth 2-3 times before going forward with a new cut.

I used 1/4 28 for the few times as it gives more threads in the case head and also produce more torque to pull the case.

On tough cases a few heat cycles from oven at 350* to freezer sometimes loosens the cases. the expansion / contraction helps to breaks the bond.

If the decaping rod assembly is in the die put a stop collar on the tap drill around 1/4" back from the tip. This limits depth and may keep you from hitting the rod.

[FISH4BUGS]

What size hole are you tapping? I use a 1/4x20 tap. I can’t imagine breaking that while tapping brass.

1/4x20 it was. Broke right in the middle after a few short turns to start the cutting of threads. Went back and forth with a bit more of a turn each time.
Still don't know what caused it. Just more faulty crap from China I guess.

[FISH4BUGS]

If the decaping rod assembly is in the die put a stop collar on the tap drill around 1/4" back from the tip. This limits depth and may keep you from hitting the rod.

Great idea. It certainly would have helped in this case.
Can I buy one of those? If I make one, how to do it?
I can hardly boil water much less do mechanical stuff. That is the price I pay for being raised a City boy. :)
Just got back from Home Depot, and they only sell drills and taps as a set. OK...so now I have an extra drill bit but I got my tap.
I'll get back to this again tonight if I can.
The saga continues.

[country gent]

Really buy high quality taps. Order them from Mc Master Carr or a tool supply shop. Once you use a high quality High Speed steel tap youll see the difference. I order my taps from them also. Ir the local supply shop, T&S tool supply. You can see and feel the difference when you look them over side by side.

In a production set up a 1/4 20 rap will do hundreds if not thousands of holes, this is because there is not any side thrust on them just the rotational force and the coolant flow keeps chips cleared out. On thru holes use a gun tap that pushes the chips ahead of it.

1/4 28 is national fine threads taps are available as are screws and nuts.

If you have a drill press and vise use it to rap the case. Loosen belts so the spindle turns free, set die in vise square and true, mount tap in chuck tight. you want to clamp the vise down to the table once aligned. bring the tap down into light contact and oil. turn chuck by hand in the back and forth rotation, working till your thu. This keeps the tap straight and true it also eliminates the side force hand taping exerts on the tap. If needed use the long end of the chuck handle or a rod in the chuck hole as a handle. Doing this youll find your taps last longer and break less often. You also get much better threads.

Ive put the case puller Kits together for several people, its not a big thing.

1/4 28 HSS starting tap
1/2" stop collar
tap drill ( dont remember the size right now I think its a #5)
2" long 1/4 28 set screw
1/4 28 nut a thread coupler is better but harder to find. It longer than the nut giving more thread engagement

If you dont have a drill press a tap starter can be used drill the threads out of a coupler at 1/4", sit this on the case head and use it to hold the tap straight when starting it.

[Baltimoreed]

Watched the lee video, clever idea but I dont like lee collets on the smooth decapping expander rod because you have to just about destroy the collet nut to tighten it enough to keep the case from pulling it out when you lower the case. The expander part needs to be just a ball not the long thing that grabs neck the case too much. I’ll stick with my rcbs.

[JoeJames]

Couple of years ago I had a 223 stuck in an RCBS sizing die. Tried several ways to remove it and gave up and ordered a new set from Lee. Told a buddy about it and he said "You mean to say that is the first time you've had a 223 stuck in a die. I've gone through 2 or 3 dies so far."

[45_Colt]

The tap that broke may have been made from high carbon steel. They are a common inexpensive tap, but are very brittle. They can be helpful when tapping a blind hole. Easy to break up the end of a broken tap that is down in the hole (hammer & punch).

A high speed steel (HS or HSS) tap isn't nearly as brittle but cost a mite more. These are the only ones to use on a through hole.

If one of those breaks in a blind hole, EDM is your friend. Or if in aluminum, nitric acid.

45_Colt

[414gates]

Dillon spray lube is great for pistol calibers, not so great for rifle, and really not good for .223 .

I found .223 is the most difficult brass to size, more difficult than RUM or Jeffery brass. Not sure why, seeing as it's so small.

You need proper case lube, which is Imperial Sizing Wax, or plain anhydrous lanolin.

Dillon makes a carbide .223 sizer that can work with the Dillon lube spray, which is used on progressive presses.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Was the Tap possibly dropped on a hard surface at some point? An older gentleman that I learned basic machining from would promptly throw away any tap that dropped from the bench to the shop floor. His explanation was that any sharp impact would ruin the Tap. I still use that rule of thumb today. He also showed me that brass is way stickier than steel or aluminum and very specific care needed to be taken when using taps in brass.

[Winger Ed.]

Just got back from Home Depot, and they only sell drills and taps as a set.

Those work, at least of awhile.
Once you've used good ones from a machinist tool supply---
You'll regard them almost as well as those 89 cent Lead tipped screw drivers in a bucket at the auto parts store checkout.

[45_Colt]

Just had a thought, regarding many .223 cases being stuck. Being that term is also used for 5.56 cases, this may be the 'case stuck in the die' issue.

Some time ago I resized a bunch of mixed HS 5.56 cases, mostly from off-shore. Many were really tough to resize. Who knows what the actual composition and hardness level of that brass was. It does make sense that some 5.56 brass may not be to the right spec.

Anyway, didn't stick any in the die. Used (old) RCBS Case Slick in the aerosol can. They apparently don't sell that any more.

45_Colt

[triggerhappy243]

ok...ok...just use a stuck case remover tool, right. Wrong!
In sizing and decapping my 223 cases using copious amounts of dillon case lube, i had one case on the up stroke of the dillon 550 tear the rim off and the case is stuck in the die.
The problem is that the decapping pin and rod is still stuck in the case and the decapping pin is showing through the primer hole.
How can i get this case out? I have the stuck case remover tool but can't get the proper place to drill it out - like the primer pocket.
Thoughts?

as stated by several others, 223/5.56 is by far the #1 case that gets stuck in dies. Me? 46 years of reloading 223 and i have never stuck a case in a die. Why? Rcbs case lube pad and rcbs case lube.

[lightman]

It happens sometimes!

I have the stuck case remover kit from RCBS. After seeing it, it would be pretty simple to assemble some easily available stuff from the hardware store. But the box it came in makes for easy storage.

I only remember sticking one case myself and it was a 223 case using Hornady One Shot lube. Probably fired in an M-16. But I have removed several for friends. One was so buggered up from vice grips that I had to use the next size tap (5/16's). Another had the whole case head cut off and I had to use an EzOut on it. I've added those additions to my kit.

[Winger Ed.]

After seeing it, it would be pretty simple to assemble some easily available stuff from the hardware store. .

There's a few things like that.

I noticed you can never find a picture of the 'gas check seater' for your sizer press one of the big companies sell.
I figure it's so simple that anyone who saw it would make their own.

[beemer]

Many years ago my Dad hounded me into loading some 243 Win. for his brother. It had an extremely tight chamber. He bought a second rifle that we found out had some excessive headspace or at least a very loose chamber. He insisted on using the same rounds in both rifles. I found out when sizing his cases, it pulled the entire head off. I tried different things but finally made a chisel out of a 1/4 inch piece of brass rod and collapsed the case.

I learned a lot due to that episode. How to remove a stuck case with no head, how to inspect for excessive headspace, if you are working with someone else's rifle something will go wrong and it's your fault and most important if someone doesn't reload let the buy their own ammo.

Dave

[FISH4BUGS]

Reloading room report: Pleased to report that I am back in operation. Very interesting process.....learned how to drill and tap the case, learned how to remove it, learned that more case lube is better. First time that has ever happened to me.
I did not damage the die (which was a Redding by the way) and I am back to decapping/resizing a complete mish mash of commercial and military brass.
I did run into some military 223 (TZ22 headstamp) brass that had flash holes way too small. It kept pulling the decapping pin out of the decapping rod, so those are now in the scrap bucket.
So thanks gang.....good advice. The only thing I did NOT do was the stop collar. That is for the next one or maybe I can plan ahead.....
Now for the rest of the process. I am doing about 750 223 and doing each and every step very carefully. I have blown up two guns in my almost 50 years of casting/reloading and have learned (the hard way) to be very methodical and careful.
I may be nuts but I have to admit I rather enjoy brass prep. It does give you the opportunity to inspect each and every brass along the way, and you KNOW your reloads have good brass to work from. Resized/decapped, swaged (military or not - who cares?), trimmed, chamfered and primer pockets cleaned....each and every one inspected along the way at each step.
Again, thanks for the advice and ideas. Truly this web community is bound together with a common hobby and people willing to help.

[triggerhappy243]

reloading room report: Pleased to report that i am back in operation. Very interesting process.....learned how to drill and tap the case, learned how to remove it, learned that more case lube is better. First time that has ever happened to me.
I did not damage the die (which was a redding by the way) and i am back to decapping/resizing a complete mish mash of commercial and military brass.
I did run into some military 223 (tz22 headstamp) brass that had flash holes way too small. It kept pulling the decapping pin out of the decapping rod, so those are now in the scrap bucket.
So thanks gang.....good advice. The only thing i did not do was the stop collar. That is for the next one or maybe i can plan ahead.....
Now for the rest of the process. I am doing about 750 223 and doing each and every step very carefully. I have blown up two guns in my almost 50 years of casting/reloading and have learned (the hard way) to be very methodical and careful.
I may be nuts but i have to admit i rather enjoy brass prep. It does give you the opportunity to inspect each and every brass along the way, and you know your reloads have good brass to work from. Resized/decapped, swaged (military or not - who cares?), trimmed, chamfered and primer pockets cleaned....each and every one inspected along the way at each step.
Again, thanks for the advice and ideas. Truly this web community is bound together with a common hobby and people willing to help.

now, if we can only convince you to clean your brass super shiny, so their is no dirt or carbon or anything else that will impede the process. I like shiny brass, even if the naysayers say it is unnecessary.

[Winger Ed.]

learned that more case lube is better. .

Only to a point. Once you cross that line, you can get shoulder dents.
Probably not too noticeable on .223s, but I've had it happen on .270 & .30-06 cases .
The next time they were fired, some of the dents ironed back out.
Others-the dent split the case going up from the shoulder.

[FISH4BUGS]

now, if we can only convince you to clean your brass super shiny, so their is no dirt or carbon or anything else that will impede the process. I like shiny brass, even if the naysayers say it is unnecessary.
The RCBS vibratory tumbler does just fine - when it stops cleaning the brass well after a two hour run the media gets tossed....and I add a dab of carnauba wax to the new media.
I can assure you my brass is very clean.
I still think this steel pin process is too much work.
Brass that is like new? Of course....but I will take 95% of that any day with half the effort.

[triggerhappy243]

I use the chips, they are easier to work with. You would be amazed at just how much dirt and carbon gets washed out of the brass. The water is black. I use a tumbling media separator that is full of water, and rotate the basket in the water. The media falls out of the brass and sinks to the bottom of the bucket.

[uscra112]

Large Ziplock baggie. 100 or so .223 cases and a squirt of RCBS lube. Close it up and knead for a couple of minutes to distribute the lube. Next batch you may be able to omit the squirt of lube.

[Idz]

A trick I've used a couple times is to put the die with the stuck case into the deep freeze. The thermal coefficient of expansion is higher in brass than steel so the case shrinks more and comes loose.
I also don't use fancy lubes. A can of cheap spray furniture wax works fine for me. Just spread out the cases on a cardboard lid and spray away. Haven't had a stuck case since I began using furniture wax.

[farmbif]

I never had a case stick using imperial wax but have had them stick using roll around pads with RCBS AND Lyman lube. good thing ive got lots of drills, taps, washers, bolts and nuts. one time I pulled the whole base off a shell and finally got what was left of it out of the die using a very close fitting punch to knock the neck out of the die. tried heating it up and freezing it and finally got it out. I swore that if it ever happened again I'd put the die in a frame in reload room as a reminder to throw suspect brass away and to lube every shell carefully and just get a new die.

[gloob]

Watched the lee video, clever idea but I dont like lee collets on the smooth decapping expander rod because you have to just about destroy the collet nut to tighten it enough to keep the case from pulling it out when you lower the case. The expander part needs to be just a ball not the long thing that grabs neck the case too much. I’ll stick with my rcbs.

A short ball can stick as bad as anything. I left the Hornady expander ball in there, first time I sized 308 down to 7mm-08. Had a good moment of panic trying to get it out. After necking down, the brass is 14.5 to 15 thousandths thick in the neck, versus ~12. That's apparently a really big difference when it comes to pull-through expanding. Destroyed the case.

If the expander is difficult to remove, you maybe have a good tight sizing die. A couple of my dies are so loose that some of my random pickup brass won't even get full neck tension. Expander doesn't have much work to do.