Hand Lube Question

[tangsight]

Hello again from the dunce in the class.

I have pan lubed my cast boolits since I began reloading for BPCR several years ago. Use a silicone meat loaf pan to set the boolits in. I pour the melted lube into the pan, then wait for the lube to solidify. I have found that the lube pulls away from the walls of the pan as it cools. That is a good indication that I can now easily remove the lube cake from the pan. However, after that, when I remove the boolits from the lube cake, I usually find a few of them with grooves that are not completely filled, apparently because the same shrinkage that makes it easy to remove the cake from the silicone pan also causes the lube to pull away from the boolits. I am left to apply lube by hand to these imperfections. They shoot good.

When I put a clock on it, if I include all the set up time and the waiting time, it begins to look like it might be faster just to finger lube all the boolits.

Any harm in that? Is there some reason I am not aware of that REQUIRES the lube to be applied in the liquid state?

[dave roelle]

After you load the loaf plan with boolits heat them up with a hot air hair drier ��

[Bazoo]

If ya heat the bullets and lube together in the oven, then there won’t be so many missing lube in their grooves. Especially if ya get them out of the cake while still warm.

[hpbear101]

You've go two good answers, cold bullets with lube poured in will leave you with some gaps.

As to your question about just hand lubing, it depends. I used to cast a bunch of bullets, then size and lube them all and feel like I was ahead of the game. Then if you decided to change things like lube, or finished diameter you have to start over casting more bullets. This has been especially true for me in the old/obsolete cartridge category. I will usually finger lube enough to test, or size and lube a bunch if I'm confident, but always keep a bunch as cast for experimentation or use in other firearms.

Tom

[Rockindaddy]

I always heated up my homemade lube in a shallow pan and used a set of forceps to dip my 58cal Mini balls into the liquid lube and set em on a sheet of wax paper. Before I discovered lubricator sizers, I would dip and load my cast boolits right into the pistol case. Star lube/sizers are the best!

[stubshaft]

I have found that adding a little lanolin makes the lube adhere to the bullets better. But as stated, warm the bullets and lube and you should have very few problems.

[country gent]

A pan lube my bpcr bullets also.I use brownie pans in a double boiler type set up.I remove them with a cake cutter a few thousands bigger than he bullets. it is sharpened only on the inside to help push the lube into the grooves. I leave the cake in the pans as leaves the holes to refill and hold the bullets up.

I set up the unit with a couple hundred bullets in the pan and heat till the lube is molten I then let them simmer for 10 mins. Turn the burner off and let slowly cool. I get very few unfilled grooves like this. A slow cool allows the bullets and lube to shrink together. Speed cooling the pan causes the lube to cool from the outside to fast puling away.

On your next batch let them slowly cool and watch how the lube cools naturally its a much more even thickening and skim over the top to the center. Also the hot water around the pan helps with this as it holds the heat allowing it to cool from the top longer.

My set uses 2 pans one bigger with 2 pieces of angle iron between them. this keeps water between the pans and helps reduce scorching and over heating. I also add a teaspoon of salt to the water as this raises the boiling point and slows cooling. I have considered vegetable oil to replace the water for even more of this effect.

[Froogal]

Hello again from the dunce in the class.

I have pan lubed my cast boolits since I began reloading for BPCR several years ago. Use a silicone meat loaf pan to set the boolits in. I pour the melted lube into the pan, then wait for the lube to solidify. I have found that the lube pulls away from the walls of the pan as it cools. That is a good indication that I can now easily remove the lube cake from the pan. However, after that, when I remove the boolits from the lube cake, I usually find a few of them with grooves that are not completely filled, apparently because the same shrinkage that makes it easy to remove the cake from the silicone pan also causes the lube to pull away from the boolits. I am left to apply lube by hand to these imperfections. They shoot good.

When I put a clock on it, if I include all the set up time and the waiting time, it begins to look like it might be faster just to finger lube all the boolits.

Any harm in that? Is there some reason I am not aware of that REQUIRES the lube to be applied in the liquid state?

Same experience here. I gave up and invested in a lubri-sizer.

[tangsight]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I have not heated the boolits and I will give that a try.

Froogal: I too have a lubrisizer. However, I may be doing things out of order, because I cast, then size, then weigh and sort the boolits (the boolits are sprayed with a liquid case lube before sizing). I then pan lube them just before the seating operation. So I don't use the lubrisizer anymore.

Stubshaft: I have some lanolin oil (for the case lube I refer to above) that I can add to the bullet lube, which is currently Spence Wolf's recipe of beeswax and olive oil, half and half. Or I guess I could add a little more beeswax; that might make it stick better, too?

Country Gent: I agree that adding a teaspoon of salt to water will prevent the water from boiling until a higher temperature. However, the lube, or your hand if you stick it in that water that isn't boiling yet even though the temperature is 220 degrees, will still be scorched. Ask me how I know.

Everyone else: Thanks for your contributions, but to rephrase the original question: Is there a law of physics that comes into play, of which I am not aware but you-all might be, that makes finger lubing a ballistically inferior approach?

[freakonaleash]

I am not having that problem. I'm using lube that is a combo of SPG and DGL. I put them in a silicone meatloaf pan then melt my lube in a double boiler. I use a lesbian inseminator to squirt lube into the pan around the bullets. Let it cool until I can handle the block then push the bullets out backwards. I usually get 100% success unless my bullets are too close together or the block gets too cold..

[tangsight]

My method is very similar to yours. The difference (which might be responsible for my gaps) is I press on the bases of the boolits to remove them from the solidified lube cake. When you say you push the boolits out "backwards", I am guessing you mean you push on the noses of the boolits, correct? If so, maybe I should do it that way.

[freakonaleash]

My method is very similar to yours. The difference (which might be responsible for my gaps) is I press on the bases of the boolits to remove them from the solidified lube cake. When you say you push the boolits out "backwards", I am guessing you mean you push on the noses of the boolits, correct? If so, maybe I should do it that way.

That it is correct. I push on the noses to back them out. Otherwise, I end up with some empty lube grooves.

[Lead pot]

When you pan lube and the lube does not stay in the grooves or falls out of those grooves when you push the bullet out of the lube cake it's the lube mix and not so much of the heat. When the lube is melted and poured into the pan with the bullets standing in formation the lube is hot enough to heat the bullets, no need to preheat the bullets.
I only use lube for my hunting bullets like these .45 bullets in the pans. I want my lube soft so it gets consumed in the bore and not laying on the ground where it does no good. If I take a small ball of lube about the size of a pea and squeeze between my thumb and finger I want it to just about to liquify like soft butter. This will do the job in the barrel in summer and winter without a problem with the powder in a shell case or for the front stuffer rifles.
Soften up your lube a little more and your problem will go away. Push the bullets out with your thumb on the nose, not the base.


308531308532

[tangsight]

Freakonaleash and Lead Pot:

Thanks for the info about pushing on the nose, not the base. I pushed on the base out of a habit formed when I experimented with the Matthews boolit some time back (a Spitzer type nose, I believe you would call it). I use a round nose boolit now, so the nose isn't really "pointed" anymore. And I will soften up the lube with a little more olive oil. I use four parts beeswax and four parts olive oil now; I will add one more part oil, push on the noses, and keep on pan lubing.

[indian joe]

After you load the loaf plan with boolits heat them up with a hot air hair drier ��

yep and then make a push through cookie cutter a little oversize - cut em out of the pan while the whole thing is still a little warm and stand the next lot in the holes - use the hot air gun to remelt - this about ten times faster and easier than foolin around with your wifes oven, double boilers for the lube, (finger lubeing is real slow) , pushing boolits out of the lube cake intact has proved a joke and a fallacy at my place but even if it did work its still slower than what I do. Missing lube is a no - no ! gotta have them grooves full .

[Lead pot]

(finger lubeing is real slow) , pushing boolits out of the lube cake intact has proved a joke and a fallacy at my place but even if it did work its still slower than what I do.

Yup- Joe, you're right. This is why I don't use any lube :D I just shoot PP :D except in my lever rifles.:bigsmyl2:

[indian joe]

Yup- Joe, you're right. This is why I don't use any lube :D I just shoot PP :D except in my lever rifles.:bigsmyl2:

must be sumptin to do with livin south of the equator (opposite rotations and all that stuff) when i first read you fellers pushing lubed boolits outa the cake with yre thumb ----honest I thought you were kiddin ---- then well lets give it a try -- my result was someplace between a waste of time and hopeless - been doin cookie cutters for years and all mine are push through ones with a wooden tee handle to lean on - quick and easy so I had no cause to change - the trick of cutting them out of the lube cake and then re heating with the hot air gun really saves a lot of time and ya dont mess up the lube brew by overcooking it. Most of my shooting is lever guns or front stuffers. Dunno about the PP boolits - I did roll yer own cigarettes for many years and they were always untidy - lack of patience I think.

Question for ya (always wondered about this)----whats the wear factor in the bore with PP? -- any thoughts (or better, concrete experience)
Cloth patched round ball guns wear pretty quick compared to almost nil with greased lead

[Lead pot]

Joe,

We all have out own way of doing things, it's just our preference of doing it.

LOL, yes I know what you fellers have to tend to down in the bottom of the world :D I have a Friend that comes up here from down under to shoot the Quigley and it takes him a few days to get up right before hitting something. :D

I can show you a couple photo's from when the rifle was new and after the 25th brick of primers I marked the box for use in this rifle only because I wanted to see what the PP does to the bore and stopped when the previous primer shortage and I needed two use them in other rifles.
That bore has more than 25,000 rounds through and it's better than new.


Kurt

308676308677

[ascast]

I do like country gent, pan lube on double boiler setup, with cake cutter made from fired case. I have a plastic tube attached so I can cut about 20 before unloading. rarly have your problem. Cut loose when still warm and cake cutter forces lube it. Using 50/50 crisco/beeswax. I off load on to a cookie sheet and sometime put a loaded sheet in the freezer. They get nicer to handle when cooled off.

[Thundermaker]

Cloth patched round ball guns wear pretty quick compared to almost nil with greased lead

That's interesting. I've never heard of that. I wonder if the patch is the culprit, or is it the type of steel they typically make muzzleloader barrels out of.

[indian joe]

That's interesting. I've never heard of that. I wonder if the patch is the culprit, or is it the type of steel they typically make muzzleloader barrels out of.

maybe they not wearing maybe they just shining up like that barrel of Kurts??
But its common to move to a thicker patch after a few hundred and to go up one ball size (.490 to .495) at about the thousand mark.
One bloke showed me a CVA mountain rifle that had documented over 3000 and he was shooting a .50 ball on calico patch - said that gun had started out at a .490 ball on calico.
it takes real dedication to put big miles on a muzzleloader.

[Thundermaker]

maybe they not wearing maybe they just shining up like that barrel of Kurts??
But its common to move to a thicker patch after a few hundred and to go up one ball size (.490 to .495) at about the thousand mark.
One bloke showed me a CVA mountain rifle that had documented over 3000 and he was shooting a .50 ball on calico patch - said that gun had started out at a .490 ball on calico.
it takes real dedication to put big miles on a muzzleloader.

It could be that they're getting polished, so it's easier to seat a bigger ball and thicker patch

[Gobeyond]

Don’t use the case lube to size. That is why the lube is not sticking!

[Gobeyond]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I have not heated the boolits and I will give that a try.

Froogal: I too have a lubrisizer. However, I may be doing things out of order, because I cast, then size, then weigh and sort the boolits (the boolits are sprayed with a liquid case lube before sizing). I then pan lube them just before the seating operation. So I don't use the lubrisizer anymore.

Stubshaft: I have some lanolin oil (for the case lube I refer to above) that I can add to the bullet lube, which is currently Spence Wolf's recipe of beeswax and olive oil, half and half. Or I guess I could add a little more beeswax; that might make it stick better, too?

Country Gent: I agree that adding a teaspoon of salt to water will prevent the water from boiling until a higher temperature. However, the lube, or your hand if you stick it in that water that isn't boiling yet even though the temperature is 220 degrees, will still be scorched. Ask me how I know.

Everyone else: Thanks for your contributions, but to rephrase the original question: Is there a law of physics that comes into play, of which I am not aware but you-all might be, that makes finger lubing a ballistically inferior approach?

Don’t use case lube to size. Then the lube will stick.

[martinibelgian]

Sizing GG bullets before lubing them might lead to the lube grooves collapsing unevenly, there being no lube in the grooves.... I shoot as cast, when I need to size, always after lubing so there is lube in the grooves to support them. Stops you from doing an additional operation which might be detrimental to accuracy, especially if the bullet needs quite a bit of sizing.

[Mr.doug]

I’ve been pan lubing for a while now , since 1 of my favorite molds has first 2 driving bands reduced I have to.
Will not work in lubrisizer I have. I pan lube as cast, never have I seen a lube groove not filled . Then they have to be pushed out by the nose. Mostly using spg lube. The reason the lube is not sticking is because of the product u are putting on the bullet before pan lubing. Pan lube then size would be much better in your situation.JMHO

Doug

[tangsight]

Martinibelgian: I appreciate your concern over my sizing my GG bullets before I lube them (that the lube grooves might collapse unevenly, which might be detrimental to accuracy), and I will experiment at the next shooting session with bullets that are lubed and then sized. However, I call your attention to my original post, in which I said "They shoot good." Maybe they could shoot better? That would be very nice.
Gobeyond/Mr.Doug: Since I am going to lube and then size, instead of size and then lube, per Martinibelgian's reasoning, the background and question below are just for my own education: The "case lube" I apply before sizing is just lanolin and an automotive product called Heet, which is isopropyl alcohol. I stand the bullets up, spray them, and let them sit for half an hour or so, during which time the alcohol evaporates, leaving the bullets coated with the lanolin. Now lanolin is a component in many bullet lubes, so putting lanolin on the bullets before I size them seems to me to be akin to putting bullet lube on them before I size them. How can the presence of a bullet lube component on the bullets make bullet lube not stick to the bullets?

[martinibelgian]

Tangsight, If your cases will accept unsized bullets, by all means also try that - less manipulation, might just work better - and shoot equally well or better. It depends on what your rifle likes, and it will let you know!