“Soft point, hardcast”????

[cajuntec]

I saw someone post on FB that they had poured a “soft point hardcast” boolit. There were several that questioned that statement, to which he replied:


Lee mold 200 grain mould. Put 80 grains soft lead in mold, let cool until hard then fill rest with hard lead. Let cool, heat mold up until sprue is liquid. Then let cool again. Found it online.

Ive never heard of such a thing, and my initial thoughts would be that this would either:

1) immediately allow the soft lead and hard lead alloy to mix
Or
2) if not heated enough for that to happen, make a weak boolit that would separate when fired

I didn’t question his claim on FB, because I simply don’t have enough experience with casting boolits to completely refute this claim. But this just doesn’t seem feasible to me. I’m also not the type to call him out on this in public, so this question is more for my knowledge only.

Am I off base in this thinking, and this is actually possible, or are my initial thoughts accurate?

All the best,
Glenn

[mdi]

I've read it here and there about "soft nose cast bullets". Comes up every once in a while and often just dies out after a few weeks. IMO, if it worked it wouldn't be a secrete. Most experienced casters/shooters would choose a bullet design shape that is more effective and rely on bullet shape for terminal effect. Cast hollow point expansion needs two things (at least) to function; velocity and alloy. Not real easy to have both at the same time (soft enough to expand and not so fast as to lead barrels)...

Just my thoughts; Until just recently, the last decade, the term "hard cast" wasn't used. Now it seems to mean any cast bullet regardless of BHN. I think newer casters were convinced that harder is better and commercial casters wanting to keep customers happy started selling "hard cast" that ran 18+ BHN. Way to hard for most cast bullet needs (I have never used a bullet harder then Lyman #2, even for my hot magnums or rifles). I don't remember any detailed description of how hard "hard" is...

[blackthorn]

This subject has been discussed in depth here on Cast Boolits! Do a search.

[Beerd]

check out the "Stickies"

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?11749-Casting-Softnose-Bullets-From-ANY-Conventional-Moulds

..

[cajuntec]

Thank you mdi.

[cajuntec]

check out the "Stickies"

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?11749-Casting-Softnose-Bullets-From-ANY-Conventional-Moulds

..

Thank you for the link. Greatly appreciated.
All the best,
Glenn

[cajuntec]

This subject has been discussed in depth here on Cast Boolits! Do a search.

I did a search. When you search “soft point hardcast” it gives you thousands of posts because it tags every post with “soft”, “point”, and ”hardcast”. I’m fairly certain that on a site like this, just about every question that could be asked about casting boolits has been asked, and very seldom does a question get asked that is something that has never been posted. Just because you have seen it multiple times, doesn’t mean it’s an easy thing to search for. Providing a link to the discussion like Beerd did is value added.

[Iwsbull]

LBT makes a mold just for that purpose.

[cajuntec]

LBT makes a mold just for that purpose.

Thank you. I'll look into that.
All the best,
Glenn

[mehavey]

I'll be honest troops.
Since the entire bullet must react/expand/retain weight as a total system (not just its small point),
I'd rather just work up a bullet/load/performance package as soft throughout.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdM8NpFJ/357-Lyman-358665-30-1-Expansion.jpg

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I have no doubt that this method works, however, a pure lead boolit with powder coat and a gas check can be pushed pretty hard. I've never had to go to this great length to get good expansion.

[cajuntec]

I'll be honest troops.
Since the entire bullet must react/expand/retain weight as a total system (not just its small point),
I'd rather just work up a bullet/load/performance package as soft throughout.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdM8NpFJ/357-Lyman-358665-30-1-Expansion.jpg

Agreed. It's not something I want to do. It's just something I was wondering about for basic knowledge of how that would work, and if it actually did work. I like the way that Eastwood Mirror Green looks. I haven't bought Eastwood powder paint yet, but I'm going to give it a try next time I order any powder. I bought 4 colors from Columbia. Three worked well (Super Mirror Purple, Alien Green, and Ruby Red). One did not cover well at all (Safety Yellow), and still continues to give me issues on everything I try using it on.

All the best,
Glenn

[gwpercle]

I'll be honest troops.
Since the entire bullet must react/expand/retain weight as a total system (not just its small point),
I'd rather just work up a bullet/load/performance package as soft throughout.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdM8NpFJ/357-Lyman-358665-30-1-Expansion.jpg

:goodpost:
LIKE !

pouring a specific amount of soft lead into the front of a boolit mould cavity and then filling the rest with hard lead is tedious to say the least ... and I'm not sure it makes a good / better boolit . I think better to adjust alloy BHN and if you need / want a Hollow Point , adjust hollow point size & depth .
Look at the photo's Mehavey posted ... that's impressive !
30 to 1 alloy looks like it works danged well !

If you do pour a soft nose / hard body and then heat the mould back up to melting ... I see a wonky boolit that has hard and soft alloy all mixed rather haphazardly !
Gary

[45stomp]

The soft point method described makes perfect soft nosed boolits with rock hard bases. If you hit hard bones with a homogeneous soft boolit, they can expand too much and fail to penetrate. The hard base of the 2 alloy boolits will shoot through the soft nose, and become a hard wadcutter that will break bone and continue to penetrate. That said, it's a technique that is time consuming and labor intensive. They are a superior hunting boolit, but not usually needed. A great tool to have in your knowledge kit in case you need to use an otherwise marginal boolit against large game. It expands well on soft tissue, but penetrates almost as well as a solid.
My <.02
Stomp :drinks:

[Iwsbull]

While they are a good bit more work, they are also not a plinking round. Cast normal bullets to sight in and confirm with a couple soft nose and you could probably cast enough in an afternoon to last years. I had almost went that route but powdercoated and used the MP hollow point molds with a very soft alloy in big bore calibers.

[stubshaft]

Many years ago, I was enamored with the possibility of shooting softpoint/hardcast bullets. I've tried Verals two dipper method. Lymans two mold system and a variety of others including dropping lead balls into the nose portion of the mold and having the casting lead melt and weld the nose to the base. Yes, I did get the bullet to expand, but I had found that a regular hardcast LFN/WFN bullet dropped animals in their tracks without having to go through all of the rigamarole associated with making these bullets.

YA, have to hit em in the right place!!! ACCURACY and the ability to hit where you are aiming is king! I used to guide hunts when I was younger and have heard virtually every excuse for a crappy shot. Making a softnose expanding bullet is not going to drop an animal any faster than an accurately placed bullet. Watching all of those videos of bullets being shot into gelatine sure looks fancy and gives a comparison of bullet types but the real-world expansion is entirely different. Lungs and flesh are entirely different densities and textures.

Bottom line time. You can shoot all of the HP, soft point bullets you want, and, in some cases, MAY see an advantage. I'll stick to what I know works by shooting LFN/WFN bullets coast to coast through animals.

[Milky Duck]

Kiwi fella posted link to old thread he had on here years back.... making these duel density boolits

[Winger Ed.]

You can shoot all of the HP, soft point bullets you want, and, in some cases, MAY see an advantage. I'll stick to what I know works by shooting LFN/WFN bullets coast to coast through animals.

That's where I'm at.
Look at all the big, dangerous African game rifles.
Like the Nitro Express and Rigby stuff.
And the 'buffalo guns' that take a shell about the size of a banana.
Their bullets are made for doing some serious killing.
They're made to kill animals that have the will and ability to 'harvest' you.-- they're all RNs and FP.

[country gent]

I have cast them in a regular mould making a soft point bullet.
I used the 2 dipper and pots method. I had a small pot of 20-1 with a dipper that held a measured amount of lead. and a bigger pot for the ww tin mix with a regular lyman ladle,
I pre heated the mould and got it casting good with the ww mix, then I poured the nose in with the sized ladle, pocked up the second ladle and poured the rest with a healthy sprue. I also used a heavy piece of flat stock set level ro sit the mould on while filling so the two pours were reasonably true.The tin also help with the bond between the 2 different alloys.

The line between hard and soft was there in the color change of the alloys, it was a wide line showing some "blending" of the near molten nose and the hot base metal. I found increasing the base pots Temp by 25*-50* over normal helped this "blending" effect.

[blackthorn]

BruceB's Cast Softpoints (as of MAY 2009)
Started by BruceB, 05-07-2009 05:43 AM
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Replies: 44
Views: 9,732
Last Post: 12-10-2013 04:38 PM
by Von Gruff Go to last post
Forum:
Cast Boolit

I got this by searching "Bruce B two part bullets. I did not read it for content but as I recall he poured in the soft portion, let it harden, poured in the hard portion, without allowing the mould to move. He then reheated the poured, hard two alloy, again without allowing the mould to move, until the whole bullet contained therein became molten again. The idea is to allow only a minimum of mixing at the interface. Once the reheated bullet/mould is cooled, it can be opened and you have a two piece bullet. It is worth a read. Merry Christmas!!

[Outpost75]

With mold pre-heated on hot plate, with sprue plate open, drop a single US 00 buckshot into each cavity, then immediately close spruce plate and fill mold.

[Iwsbull]

I know the soft nose need a bit of velocity to reach their full potential but when they are in that zone many have reported that they have had excellent results. If I were to use a rifle I would think hard about going to the effort, as it is I can hit the expansion threshold for soft hp much easier.

[Soundguy]

That's where I'm at.
Look at all the big, dangerous African game rifles.
Like the Nitro Express and Rigby stuff.
And the 'buffalo guns' that take a shell about the size of a banana.
Their bullets are made for doing some serious killing.
They're made to kill animals that have the will and ability to 'harvest' you.-- they're all RNs and FP.

Agreed. My factory federal deep penetrator 416 Rigby are flat nose..my hornady factory 458 winmag and 458 Lott are all round nose as well as my 470 nitro express. Even my 9.3x74r and 375h&h are some type of round nose.

[mehavey]

With mold pre-heated on hot plate, with sprue plate open, drop a single
00 buckshot into each cavity, then immediately close spruce plate and
fill mold.Fascinating.
Trying it now w/ a 340gr* solid (gas-checked) version of the classic Gould.
.375" RB in the nose overlaid w/ Lyman#2 and then to be PC'd.

https://i.postimg.cc/XJWyvmvT/ACC46-340-LG-375ball.jpg

a leeeeeettle rough -- but we'll see if will hold together far enuf' to make 50/50.
(50 yds w/ 50gr of 3031)


* 330gr even as-cast above


.

[barkerwc4362]

You realize that Lyman at one time made several two part molds in I believe 38/357, 44 and 45. You cast the nose portion in a soft allow and the rear portion in a harder alloy. The two portions were epoxied together, before being lubed and sized. There was another vendor who approached the problem by having two pots, colocated one held the soft alloy and the other the harder alloy. You adjusted the soft allow pot to dispense a limited amount of alloy, then immediately filled the remainder of the mold with the harder alloy. Both I believe were marked in the 70s.
Bill

[jim 44-40]

Handloader #222 magazine,has a great article on casting softnose bullets.
I like the idea of doing the opposite by making the base soft and the nose hard lead.

[cajuntec]

Thanks everyone! Lots of good info provided on this subject. I appreciate it.
All the best,
Glenn

[Winger Ed.]

I wouldn't go to all that trouble, But I'd be curious to hear what your results are.

[GLynn41]

I got mine as idea from Ross Sayfried? anyway it is easy to do and have killed deer with them. any mold can used--have 255 MM lwn-- and it makes great 257gr flat soft points for my .410 GNR conversion. I have 3 hp/cup molds and I like them but truthful I really do not need them it was a want as far as expanded bullets. I mean what's not to want in Keith .41 cal hp or CP., Btw I use two pots...one soft one normal-- homade dipper.. only make them to hunt as the normal bullets shoots to same point of aim

[beagle]

Lyman/Ideal at one time made a mould, the 308291 for this purpose. Had a nose portion that resembled a mushroom.
You cast them first. Then inserted the "nose" in the other cavity and cast the regular bullet.
The nose was soft alloy and the base hard. Orygun Mark had one of the moulds when he was with us.
He said that even that sometimes messed up. I've seen pics of the whole bullet. You could see a color difference between the alloys. He said it worked well and he "made meat" with them but said there was a lot of rejects./beagle


You realize that Lyman at one time made several two part molds in I believe 38/357, 44 and 45. You cast the nose portion in a soft allow and the rear portion in a harder alloy. The two portions were epoxied together, before being lubed and sized. There was another vendor who approached the problem by having two pots, colocated one held the soft alloy and the other the harder alloy. You adjusted the soft allow pot to dispense a limited amount of alloy, then immediately filled the remainder of the mold with the harder alloy. Both I believe were marked in the 70s.
Bill

[BNE]

So I tried this in the past. Just because I thought the idea was cool. It was not easy to get the casting to work. It sounded great, but I was not able to make a good looking cast out of it, so I gave up. I agree with the above guys points. Go soft, powder coat and go shoot. If you think you need it....

[Wolfdog91]

Kiwi fella posted link to old thread he had on here years back.... making these duel density boolitsOle gruff is good people, hope he doesn't mind me sharing this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/b1ccc582785d79e3122ff45ab4ce0d70.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/f50c8c0c9ba2d6679e0bfbce90697401.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/ac2f29eb18d9b3f1686c9b8e878a365d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/46586d6142161099352c9f0c344c01bb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/daf76eabecc2e14b02f57dc578a2625f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/62d06b812ab69d5a05cfa9da4d7be098.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/2ff10278021ab11de63fdddcb1265c12.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/d2f8745ccd23f48effea476bced11af5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/8c42ccb60173700cb8688e5b7f20e2a5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221230/042b5aa87b768430ab7a4c18207dd931.jpg

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

That's where I'm at.
Look at all the big, dangerous African game rifles.
Like the Nitro Express and Rigby stuff.
And the 'buffalo guns' that take a shell about the size of a banana.
Their bullets are made for doing some serious killing.
They're made to kill animals that have the will and ability to 'harvest' you.-- they're all RNs and FP.

Yeah, and almost all soft points. Solids are optional.

[megasupermagnum]

I didn't realize soft point cast bullets were a secret. They have been around a long time, for sure going back before anyone here was alive. They were never all that popular because they are only useful in a relatively small number of instances. I've made them, and I think Bruce B developed one of the best methods there are. Easy? No, but after a little time you have a handful of fine bullets. Here in the USA where we can have any bullet our mind and wallet can handle, it's not that big of a deal. Get velocity up a little and a flat point rifle bullet expands fine with normal alloys. You can buy very wide nosed bullets for handguns anywhere. Hollow point molds are not rare. Other places in the world they may not be.

[Rapier]

In a 38 Spl in my experiance it is best to use a hard cast SWC like a Keith or Thompson style and forget the double pour, use your time saved to practice shooting.