Ruger Police Service Six 38 Special

[maclords]

I attempted to send a private message to MtGun44, but there was an error. Maybe his mailbox was too full of garbage from people like me.

I wanted to know if there was a difference in strength between the Ruger Service Six chambered in 357M vs 38sp?

I’m not eloquent. I spent some time on my message (even if it doesn’t look like it). So I copied it and will paste it here:

Hello Sir,

I’m sorry to bother you. I’ve been lurking on castboolits for the last 10 years or so. And reading a lot of the old stuff. Maybe I have 10 posts to my name.

There’s a pristine Ruger Service Six at my local gun shop for $450. I went to buy it today but found out it was chambered for 38 special and I walked out with a very good S&W model 13 instead for $650.

It got me thinking. I suspect the service six 38 Special is identical to the 357 service six except for chamber depth. So I did a search on castboolits to try and find an answer. I found a post by you stating they were the same. I remember your name as someone I highly respect and so I decided to PM you to verify.

I’ve decided I need to give my two Son in Laws 4 inch 357 magnums. I have a half lug fixed sight GP100 and now this Model 13. But I cannot leave myself without one. I’d be fine with keeping this service six for myself if I know I can hot rod 38’s.

I apologize for the long story. I do appreciate all the knowledge I’ve received from reading your posts; even if I’ve forgotten most of it.

Sincerely,
Ted

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I could tell you a long and interesting story about S&W K Frames' strength, .38 Model 64 vs. .357 Model 66, but the short of it is that S&W said the strength is not equal because the heat treatment is different. I do not know that this is the case with the comparable Ruger revolvers, but I would suggest that if you need to know this fact that you should directly contact the Ruger factory as ask them. The question should be nothing more than academic anyway, unless you are planning to convert a .38 Ruger to use .357 ammo. Don't. Get the tool intended for the job.

DG

[Thumbcocker]

Outpost 75 could probably answer that question.

[hc18flyer]

I'd snap that baby up just as quickly as I could, sell my youngest child to pay for it! Absolutely nothing wrong with .38 Special! Ruger should handle +P loads too!
JMTC, hc18flyer

[rintinglen]

Back in the day, the prevailing wisdom was that the 38 Security Six/Service Six was identical save for the depth of the chamber with the 357 version. I distinctly remember them being used with the "+P+" Treasury loads.

However, Outpost 75 is the guy, he worked as an engineer there at Ruger back in the day and was involved in testing. He will be able to definitively state the facts.

308417
Here's mine. It has an excellent trigger, but does not shoot to POA. I need to put it in a vice and turn the barrel to the left a smidge.

[G W Wade]

Loved the Security Six's. Have had 6"- 4" and 2 3/4 in. Stupidly got rid of the 4 and 6. Short gun is my constant companion. Got really upsrt with Ruger when they dropped and replaced with GP100. GW

[Outpost75]

The .38 Special Service Six and Speed Six revolvers have the same alloys and heat treatment as the .357s. Their only reason for being was political for police contract orders where the politicians didn't want cops carrying "Magnums". They will withstand a steady diet of +P+ LE loads.

[contender1]

Outpost75 beat me to a reply. He's spot on as to the information on the Ruger.

[maclords]

Thank you for your replies. And thank you Outpost75 for your knowledge. I think I will try and get Service Six and I’ll post pictures if/when I do. I’m probably more excited about it now then when I thought it was a 357.

[Walks]

I had a Speed - Six 4" bbl in .38Spl, My sister got her hands on it. And shot approximately 50-100rds of +38+Spl from 1976 until she passed in 2018. Every 3-4 weeks !
Ammo Our Dad loaded for her, and then I did when He passed in 1988. The bolt was replaced in 1992 and again in 2010. Other then that I don't know what was done to the revolver. Never saw the gun after she passed.

[dverna]

I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[contender1]

I will add that in that configuration,, collectors of the Ruger DA guns LIKE to find them.

[Larry Gibson]

I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Me too!

Excellent candidate for "Skeeter's Load" with the 358156 GC'd and seated out to the 2nd crimp groove over 13 gr of Alliant 2400. Recent pressure testing has shown that load to be right under the SAAMI MAP. Skeeter's load of 13.5 gr runs just right over the SAAMI MAP. A friend of mine got a 4" Service Six 38 SPL LE trade in some years back, maybe 30+.... He uses the 13 gr load regularly over the years and the revolver is still in excellent condition. If I didn't have a 6 Security Six 357 I would have gotten one, should have anyway.....

[Wayne Dobbs]

I have one of each: Speed Six in .38 Special, Service Six .38 and a Security Six. They are strong as heck, but two of them need action work. Got any suggestions?

[lotech]

Me too!

Excellent candidate for "Skeeter's Load" with the 358156 GC'd and seated out to the 2nd crimp groove over 13 gr of Alliant 2400. Recent pressure testing has shown that load to be right under the SAAMI MAP. Skeeter's load of 13.5 gr runs just right over the SAAMI MAP. A friend of mine got a 4" Service Six 38 SPL LE trade in some years back, maybe 30+.... He uses the 13 gr load regularly over the years and the revolver is still in excellent condition. If I didn't have a 6 Security Six 357 I would have gotten one, should have anyway.....

I only use 12 grs. #2400 in .357 with a 160 gr. H&G #51 SWC. I'd have to look at my notes, but I think MV is about 1150 or so from a 6" barrel. I've tried from about 10 BHN to 14 BHN and can see little or no difference in accuracy. What hardness do you use for the 13 #2400 load in .38 Special cases? It seems pressure would certainly be higher than my .357 load.

[El Bibliotecario]

The .38 Special Service Six and Speed Six revolvers have the same alloys and heat treatment as the .357s. Their only reason for being was political for police contract orders where the politicians didn't want cops carrying "Magnums". They will withstand a steady diet of +P+ LE loads.

That makes sense. I have always questioned assertations that two revolvers identical except for chambering had different heat treatments and alloys. A metallurgist I ain't, but I have experience in spare parts management, and it would be more trouble than it would be worth to stock two versions of essentially the same part..and I suspect an equal waste of manufacturing time.

As for the original question, I would personally investigate the world of 38/44 loads.

[Outpost75]

Larry Gibson some time back pressure tested some .38-44 loads and I've used them in my .38 Special 1984 Service Six armorer's school gun with fine results.

[MT Gianni]

While the Speed Six is a fine choice don't beat yourself up over getting a Model 13. One of the best carrying guns S&W ever made.

[TNsailorman]

I have a S&W Model 13 with a 3" barrel and it is a keeper. Maybe not be quite as strong as the Ruger Service six but close enough for this ol boy. james

[Larry Gibson]

I only use 12 grs. #2400 in .357 with a 160 gr. H&G #51 SWC. I'd have to look at my notes, but I think MV is about 1150 or so from a 6" barrel. I've tried from about 10 BHN to 14 BHN and can see little or no difference in accuracy. What hardness do you use for the 13 #2400 load in .38 Special cases? It seems pressure would certainly be higher than my .357 load.

Yes, because the 358156 bullet is seated a bit "deeper" out to the 2nd crimp groove in 38 SPL cases than when seated to the 1st crimp groove in 357 Magnum cases the psi of the 13 gr 2400 load in 38 SPL cases is the same as a 14 gr load of 2400 in 357 Magnum cases. Both loads run right at 35,000 psi.

Most often the bullets used have a BHN of 12 - 14 and are cast of COWWs + 2% tin or range scrap with tin added to give about the same BHN. For hunting bullets I us a 16-1 lead-tin alloy which is a bit softer at 11 - 12 BHN but is much more malleable giving better expansion with the HP'd 358156s..

[FergusonTO35]

This question should be asked rugerforum.com. The folks there are real Six series experts and some of them worked for Ruger in the heyday of the Six.

As I recall, the story goes that the Security Six was originally intended to be sold strictly as a .357, WBR saw no point in producing a nearly identical gun at the same price in a weaker cartridge. However it became apparent Ruger was losing LE sales because so many agencies did not authorize .357's, especially the lucrative NYPD. Also, adjustable sights were an extra cost that many agencies didn't want. So they shortened the chambers to .38 Special depth and added simple sized sights, thus creating the Service Six. A round butt was added later creating the Speed Six. Of course, either gun could also be had in .357. Interestingly, Ruger did occasional runs of .38 Special Security Sixes when requested.

[maclords]

I started the thread.

Thank you for the replies.

I went back after my 30 day wait for another hand-gun and the service six was still there. I own it now. Actually the model 13 was probably in better condition then the ruger, but I'm happy as a clam. Hopefully the pictures post. One pic is the service six and and model 13, the other pic is the model 13 and my fixed sight gp100. The two future son-in-laws can take a 4-inch fixed sight 357; first married, first pick. The model 13-2 is 1979. The GP100 I bought new in 2011. As nice as the model 13 is, the GP was the first gun I owned and will always be my favorite. The boys can have them. I'll keep the service six; I reload, they don't yet.
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309512

[racepres]

I started the thread.

Thank you for the replies.

I went back after my 30 day wait for another hand-gun and the service six was still there. I own it now. Actually the model 13 was probably in better condition then the ruger, but I'm happy as a clam. Hopefully the pictures post. One pic is the service six and and model 13, the other pic is the model 13 and my fixed sight gp100. The two future son-in-laws can take a 4-inch fixed sight 357; first married, first pick. The model 13-2 is 1979. The GP100 I bought new in 2011. As nice as the model 13 is, the GP was the first gun I owned and will always be my favorite. The boys can have them. I'll keep the service six; I reload, they don't yet.
309511
309512

Good For You
Well Done..I am in lust with the Security/Service/Speed six's...

[johniv]

They are fine six guns. My favorite is a 3” Speed Six made for the USPS. .357.

[MKII]

The Six series guns are the size of a K frame Smith and as strong as an L frame. Some need a bit of smoothing of parts and maybe a shim or two to eliminate some wiggle between parts. You can probably find a .357 cylinder on ebay if you want.

[Kosh75287]

The "serious medicine" defensive load for a .38 Special is a 160 gr. LSWC at 1000 f/s, a 140 gr. at 1150 f/s, or a 125 gr. at 1280 f/s. With judicious handloading, these specs are within reach of a medium frame 4" .38 Special without straining things. This is especially true of the Ruger Security Six series revolvers, which are built like main battle tanks.
The Skeeter Skelton load certainly qualifies in this respect, but there are other loads that will also fulfill these criteria, with propellants that burn more completely in abbreviated barrels. Powders like Unique, BE-86, Herco, or AA#5 will develop similar velocities.

[FergusonTO35]

I have a 1988 Service Six .38 in stainless and bought it from the original owner's estate. Love that wheelgun!

[35 Whelen]

Here's how I handled a similar situation-

Four years ago I found a Ruger Police Service Six in .38 Special that was from the Cook County Memorial Hospital (Chicago, IL)...security team, police force, whatever (Stamped CCMH on the frame)...on a forum for $200-

https://i.imgur.com/ECwiTeVl.jpg

Bought it then trotted over to eBay and paid, as I recall, $50-$60 for a Security Six cylinder and crane like this one, (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115678598466?hash=item1aeefb5542:g:OGgAAOSwb6tjyYS S&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsLsU%2F2cCkbLH%2BrDa9Jcdnn4fn X58AeGRJSlqceCfS6JyrtI8hUoncjn7wkhcbtXJ91GcIAzhiqf gv0Of3XfluI2GyUN51eDA4fhf%2BylpsK3gYncb0Z%2B6iOewT VypoixDhYfMCLVl76Dj0QkQ%2B4zayTqUZ1477SbkawiiacSWG CHuqyLiHEgkYszurDxxBsgWGMvHXMdhzBATaTcQipHx%2Ba9vC wJh3mRXtOolXCL6ZVmA%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7rsjra6YQ)popped the .38 Special cylinder and crane out and popped the .357 cylinder and crane in.

Now I have a sort of Ruger Security Police Service Six .357 Magnum that is kept in our cabin in the mountains. Winner winner chicken dinner.

35W

[beemer]

I have always owned a Security Six of some sort for close to 50 years. There is a 2 3/4 in. Stainless Service Six Bi-Centennial in my safe that my Dad bought new. I turned it into a round butt because he couldn't find a Speed Six. It lived in his night stand till he was no longer able to handle it.

I have a 4 in. that developed end play in the cylinder and started rubbing the barrel. I shimmed the cylinder to take it out. Maybe not the best fix but at almost 71 it will probably outlast me. I bought it used but in very nice shape in 1978 so it took 45 years to get there.

[FergusonTO35]

I started the thread.

Thank you for the replies.

I went back after my 30 day wait for another hand-gun and the service six was still there. I own it now. Actually the model 13 was probably in better condition then the ruger, but I'm happy as a clam. Hopefully the pictures post. One pic is the service six and and model 13, the other pic is the model 13 and my fixed sight gp100. The two future son-in-laws can take a 4-inch fixed sight 357; first married, first pick. The model 13-2 is 1979. The GP100 I bought new in 2011. As nice as the model 13 is, the GP was the first gun I owned and will always be my favorite. The boys can have them. I'll keep the service six; I reload, they don't yet.
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309512

Didn't know Ruger was still making the fixed sights/half shroud GP in 2011. Still kicking myself for not buying one new for $400 in the early 2000's.

[maclords]

Didn't know Ruger was still making the fixed sights/half shroud GP in 2011. Still kicking myself for not buying one new for $400 in the early 2000's.

I did think the fixed sight/half shroud GP I bought new in 2011 was old stock, but I just did a serial number lookup and it says "shipped in 2011"

[FergusonTO35]

Sweet wheelgun you have there! Hopefully I'll cross paths with one someday.