TUNING a .22lr BR at 100 yards...

[OS OK]

I have 4 new bricks of Eley Match .22lr & I am starting a new 'Node Search' for the CZ452 @ 100 yards. I have a Harrolls Tuner on the CZ but have removed the x-tra 6 ozs. weight, I'm running just the tuner alone.

https://i.imgur.com/ItHPLRG.jpg

Why not do this at 50 yards?
At 50 yds. you'll get tight little bug-holes...but...It is said that 50 yd. tuned groups will open a minimum of 3X at 100 yds. I didn't believe that but after testing earlier this year, I found that it is true.

I believe this is attributed to the extra 50 yd. range that the wind has a better chance to influence trajectory.
Other factors, ie. the standard deviation of the ammo, the shooter, the rifle & associated bench equipment...even the bench itself add to making that 50 yd. group 'swell' to 3X larger.

It's just a 'hunch' I have but, why not tune at 100 yds.?
I believe all the variables that influence groups have to be fine tuned together...my goal this next year is to shoot 5 ea. 5 shot groups and have the average size of those groups be consistently less than .400".
This is the first effort to tune this new lot of Eley Match ammo, I started with a span of tuner settings I've used with other lots because I buy only the ammo that is factory rated at 1055 fps. In the CZ they average 1080 fps because of the match chamber.
For me...this is a new method of Node Search, instead of multiple 2 shot groups at each tuner setting I am using 3 shot groups, that gives me a better estimation of the vertical spread. Then look for the most promising setting, possible nodes...and go out and test with the 5 shot groups.

Here each row is a specific tuner setting (spanning .039" down to .035" on the tuner), wind direction and velocity are noted at each bull along with the size of the 3 shot group (I am not compensating for wind drift & allowing them to deviate, this adds data for when I use Kentucky Wind-age and go for my goal)...then those groups are all averaged and written in the left-most column of the card.
After all that, it's a lot of Mulling as I think about the variables that influenced this testing and decide on the parameters of the next test...in this case, I think I need to look at some groups with 2 or 3 thousandths more length on the tuner...ie. .040" ~ .042" or so, we'll see?

https://i.imgur.com/crSrdtr.jpg

I know this is a bad time of year to think about outdoor shooting but here in Northern California I still have some pretty good shooting days ahead until Spring.
At my age 72, it is rough to deal with the cold weather but it is primarily those days where I have a more mild wind that I can get meaningful tuning data.
After Spring, when it starts warming up some, I'll have days where the wind is actually 0 mph or barely detectable on my face...that's when I expect to see this work pay off.

No...I don't compete...this is not preparation for next season, this is just activity in the latest Rabbit Hole I found a couple years ago.

https://i.imgur.com/ZDjmvG2.jpg

[nicholst55]

Very nice. I'd be interested to see your final results, after you've found your node(s). I'd like to see how your preferred setting works at 50 yards, just because!

[BLAHUT]

If you get your tuner to work at 100 when you go to fifty may be even tighter ??
I used a finger size block of lead with a piece of rubber around barrel and a hose clamp. Just takes time and good Reckords.
Now the question is does your gun like this ammo or is there a better brand out there ???
I chased this dream for years....... I found a lot number the gun liked, before I started with trying to tune, to get tighter.....

[steveu]

Nice write up and bench!

[dverna]

OS OK, it does not work that way. The best tuner setting for 50 yards will be different at 100 yards.

It is why tuners get adjusted for different ranges. I could not believe it until I saw an article on it.

If I can find the article, I will post it for you.

Found it. Look near the end if you do not want to wade through all the other stuff:

http://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm

[OS OK]

Very nice. I'd be interested to see your final results, after you've found your node(s). I'd like to see how your preferred setting works at 50 yards, just because!

Me too & I will eventually go back to the 50 just to see this.


BLAHUT...If you get your tuner to work at 100 when you go to fifty may be even tighter ?? ( I think it will be. )
I used a finger size block of lead with a piece of rubber around barrel and a hose clamp. Just takes time and good Reckords.
Now the question is does your gun like this ammo or is there a better brand out there ??? ( I can tune anything of quality but the SD's have to be 10 or less. )
I chased this dream for years.......

steveu...Nice write up and bench! ( Thank you. )

**********************

I think that making little improvements as I go along will all add to the 'best tune' I am looking for.
One thing I did before breaking into this new lot was to install a new striker spring...

The new spring is maybe 3/32's longer and suposed to have 10% more striking energy...this should help to stoke the fire and get a better SD. I have yet to chrono this new lot but that will get done. We have to know those numbers.

https://i.imgur.com/0gvI16j.jpg

[OS OK]

OS OK, it does not work that way. The best tuner setting for 50 yards will be different at 100 yards.

It is why tuners get adjusted for different ranges. I could not believe it until I saw an article on it.

If I can find the article, I will post it for you.

I would appreciate that Don ... this is something I'd like to understand too. Thank You!
I think that I am dealing with the projectile leaving the muzzle on the up-stroke of the harmonic...this way the faster rounds with a flatter trajectory are hitting lower in a group & the slower exiting rounds have a slightly increased bore angle and arc higher and fall back with the faster POI's.

[dverna]

Charlie.

Added the link in post 5. Enjoy.

[OS OK]

OS OK, it does not work that way. The best tuner setting for 50 yards will be different at 100 yards.

It is why tuners get adjusted for different ranges. I could not believe it until I saw an article on it.

If I can find the article, I will post it for you.

Found it. Look near the end if you do not want to wade through all the other stuff:

http://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm

I made a big mistake Don..."I assumed something."

I had it in my head that once they had that POI @ 50 yards, that gravity would catch each of them and pull them to earth on the same down turn of the arc.
As it turns out the slower round will drop another .540" than the faster one.

I was close in my assumption but...'No cigar'! ...:bigsmyl2:

The Slower tuned @ 50 yards...

https://i.imgur.com/Reug9nb.jpg

The faster tuned at 50 yards...

https://i.imgur.com/dfzu4gs.jpg

I think I'll 'GUESS' on this...but I guess the tunes will be only about .005" apart on the tuner setting?

[tazman]

You guys are now well beyond anything I can do or help with.
I will continue to read and maybe ask a question now and again but this is something I simply can't do.
Enjoy your rabbit hole guys.

[OS OK]

You guys are now well beyond anything I can do or help with.
I will continue to read and maybe ask a question now and again but this is something I simply can't do.
Enjoy your rabbit hole guys.

Taz...you've had some pretty good ideas before...good info on barrel deflection @ 50 yards, stuff I never knew. Don't clam up on us now Buddy!

After all...this is a discussion & discovery thread, ain't nothing concrete here just yet.

[dverna]

Tazman, how someone has fun is not the same for everyone. I enjoy learning especially about shooting. I may not ever use what I learn but it is still knowledge. The link I posted demonstrates that. I learned something I will never use but it may help someone else like Charlie and Harry.

Charlie’s first thread convinced me going down the tuner rabbit hole was not for me. Still, I tried to contribute as best I could and I learned from his efforts. I love to shoot but am too cheap to play extensively with match grade .22’s. But I could tag along with Charlie and enjoy his journey. Just I will enjoy Harry’s efforts.

Charlie’s work took me into shooting quality PCP air guns. It came at a time when shortages and prices made CF shooting prohibitive. It has been a lot of cheap fun. Not for everyone, but works for me. I have a new project with the Daystate for next year and will post on it separately.

I hope you will continue to share your experience with us even if this seems too far down the rabbit hole.

[OS OK]

ANOTHER LITTLE ANNOYING VARIABLE...is that wind-age adjustment on the Caldwell Rock BR.

It's a spot where the Bean-Counters talked Caldwell into putting cheap plastic washers where a pair of bearings should have been placed. The washers wear, they are not smooth turning and the slack in the fitment causes an effect like 'thread lash'. The adjusting knob will pull the top rest to one direction and when you go to make a fine wind-age adjustment in the POA the knob has a slack of about 30º before positive engagement in the other direction.
You can tighten the nylock nut on the assembly firm enough to rid the 'thread lash'-slack but it makes the knob difficult to turn. That may not sound like a big deal but when your concentrating on making lil'bug-holes, annoyances like this are a PITB.
My way of seeing this is ''If you expect to shoot precision, your gear needs to operate with precision too."

Well...Harry and I have been doing our 'Backyard Engineering' and have come up with replacing those black plastic washers with a set of 8mm bearings...here are the sets where I'll replace the plastic...

https://i.imgur.com/Kz8Y8mp.jpg

These bearing sets are 5mm thick so they took up enough space that I had to install the nylock 8mm nut backwards. It is staying put OK but I have another set of 'roller' type bearings coming in January that are only 4mm thick. That may get me the room to replace that nut correctly.
Here's a little better view...

https://i.imgur.com/FMvRV1O.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WfkVTp1.jpg


Before putting it back together I spent some time with some 400 grit wet/dry paper smoothing all the surfaces that rub against each other. I found a place where they didn't grind off all the casting that oozes out in their mould process and that was interfering also...a file took care of this...

https://i.imgur.com/yabgY5T.jpg

Here it is re-assembled and the difference from before & after is like night & day! It is smooth & positive and the thread-lash-slack is gone. When you adjust the wind-age now it feels like a precision assembly.

https://i.imgur.com/cFqvy8E.jpg

Harry and I have another revision planned if we can cut that collar, the long tube between the knob and the bearing set on the right...if we can take about 1/2" off it's length it will give me enough space to install a 'wave type' spring washer so that I can have spring tension on the assembly instead of relying on the tightness of the nylock nut.
It'll be January before anything happens with that.

[mdatlanta]

Nice fix! This is an interesting thread.

[Hannibal]

I used to shoot my .22lr out to 300 yards. Never worried about a barrel tuner. Standard velocity 40 grain Federal in the blue box. You need a round where the velocity is very consistent and not every rifle likes the same load. 6" steel. Could ring it 10 out of 10 times usually. Once I figured out the drop it was actually rather boring. The big challenge was the wind. If it was calm or sustained then it was easy, but even a light wind was a problem if it was variable.

My big suggestion would be wind flags if you aren't using them already.

22lr can be extremely frustrating chasing accuracy because you're at the mercy of the ammunition.

Edit to add - something else that I recently learned the hard way. During accuracy testing it's common to shoot a considerable distance from the point of aim. That's all well and good but the further from the point of aim the point of impact is, the more critical scope cant is. Use a target with long vertical and horizontal lines and keep the scope crosshairs perfectly aligned with them. The effects of scope cant is magnified when the POA and POI are separated. The bigger the separation the bigger the effect.

[OS OK]

Hannibal...> The big challenge was the wind. If it was calm or sustained then it was easy, but even a light wind was a problem if it was variable.

I certainly agree with you there & agree with using wind flags, I use several and at strategic locations between the bench & backstop.
I shoot on a ridge and the velocity of the wind can get really strong but it's the direction that throws a kink in the wind solution for each shot...
On the 100 yard range the first 50 yards from the bench is relatively open to the full value wind of the normal direction of wind.
It is that second 50 yards to the target where the wind is molested by that thick treeline, from that gate in the center of the photo going to the right up to the backstop.

https://i.imgur.com/mG3Dnfc.jpg

On this range, it is that combination of wind effects that ultimately determine where the round is going to print on the target. That's a tough call.
I use several wind ribbons evenly spaced about 25 yards apart but the most important of the wind flags is the wind vane I place at the midpoint in this range...

https://i.imgur.com/I2drMkV.jpg

The vane type wind flag gives me the exact direction and velocity there at the midpoint of the range. It is this indicator that gives me the directional offset in my POA. If I had only one wind indicator, it would be this one here...

https://i.imgur.com/6hIuzpw.jpg

Another indicator I use at the bench is the wind meter, this one stays on for the entire bench session...it gives me the 'current' wind speed at the bench and it gives me the 'high' wind speed & the 'average' wind speed. This information changes by the minute and it is a great indicator of the 'general conditions' in each session.

https://i.imgur.com/GO2QQy0.jpg

Hannibal...> Edit to add - something else that I recently learned the hard way. During accuracy testing it's common to shoot a considerable distance from the point of aim. That's all well and good but the further from the point of aim the point of impact is, the more critical scope cant is. Use a target with long vertical and horizontal lines and keep the scope crosshairs perfectly aligned with them. The effects of scope cant is magnified when the POA and POI are separated. The bigger the separation the bigger the effect.

I've done all I can to alleviate 'cant' of the rifle. This being 'Bench Rest' shooting that front rest & the way it mates with the fore-foot of the stock eliminates cant...that is, so long as the rest is level. That part is covered from the concrete pad up to the bench...everything is level.

https://i.imgur.com/CfK5abx.jpg

Thanks for your helpful comments Hannibal...I hope you stick with us through spring, I think that about late spring of 23 I will have this rig shooting an average of .400" or less for 5 each of 5 shot groups. That's part of my goal.
The other part is hitting what I am aiming at...

https://i.imgur.com/BxXhnqF.jpg

This is the simple target I plan to use. 3/4" stick-on spots, 2 rows of 5 spots with warmers above top left.
Hitting what I'm aiming at means to keep all 5 shots in each group 'on the green spot'...anything off spot means a 'fail'.
The green monster target I am currently using is for getting my testing done, I have a stack of those and they are quick and simple.

[OS OK]

I got out on Christmas day and shot a test card...I wanted to look at the tuner set at .040" down through .036".

Hannibal...Had me thinking about 'rifle cant' so I took the level to the bench to make dang sure about that!

https://i.imgur.com/P4A1oSS.jpg

It was what I call a Wind = 0 mph day, what I mean by that is that the wind meter didn't record any current, average or maximum numbers because it will not record wind less than about 1.2 mph. ( It's a cheap wind meter I got off Amazon, $38 ... but it is worth every penny to me. )

https://i.imgur.com/XjbP4Uf.jpg

But...and there's always a 'butt' in there, but I could feel a varying slight breeze on the back of my neck. It was coming from 5 through 7:00, basically a 1/4'ing tailwind that was just tickling the wind flags.
These slight breezes do have an effect on your round as indicated below on the chart.

https://i.imgur.com/LWZb0m7.jpg

Again my purpose was to look at various settings on the tuner with 3 shot groups but not compensating in any way for the wind or trying to tune the scope in to a '0-wind 100 yard zero'...I let them loose and am only concerned with group sizes per setting and their averages.
If there's any promising settings, I would go back and shoot some 5 shot groups to make the testing a little more realistic. When I do find what I think is the tune for this new lot of Eley Match I will increase group size again and re-test...

https://i.imgur.com/6ExaUNM.jpg

I know that you all have heard folks saying that 3 shot groups are meaningless when you are claiming some 'MOA status' of your rifle & ammo.
I think that this target will show this clearly when you look at the 3 shot average group size and look at the 5 shot group size...this is what they are trying to explain.

For example I took a closer look at tuner settings .037" & .036" with 5 shot groups.
Look at the increase in group size.

Tuner @ .037" (3 shot group) average size is .456" ... (5 shot group) average size is .709" ... net increase is .253"

Tuner @ .036" (3 shot group) average size is .422" ... (5 shot group) average size is .791" ... net increase is .369"

I can re-test over & over again with the same settings & get a slight varying net increase of the averages going from 3 to 5 shot groups...each test is affected by the conditions of the particular day they were tested & that has a bearing, also the shooter has a bearing on the results no matter how skillful he thinks he is.
That's my opinion about that unless one of you fellas have something to add.

Remember this thread is a 'discussion of discovery' as we progress so don't be afraid to put your 2¢ in.
charlie

[dverna]

Charlie,

This year I did some 10 shot group testing. I saw how much the 5 shot groups were “Fooling” me. Guys shooting three shot groups are deluding themselves.

50 years ago, I was blessed to have a mentor, when I was competing In Bullseye shooting, who had a Ransom rest. He was adamant about shooting 50 shot groups at 50 yards. I thought he was nuts...but he was no fool.

BTW, I have many questions about folks who shoot two shot groups to dial in tuners. Supposedly it works...but I cannot figure out how.

[OS OK]

Charlie,

This year I did some 10 shot group testing. I saw how much the 5 shot groups were “Fooling” me. Guys shooting three shot groups are deluding themselves.

50 years ago, I was blessed to have a mentor, when I was competing In Bullseye shooting, who had a Ransom rest. He was adamant about shooting 50 shot groups at 50 yards. I thought he was nuts...but he was no fool.

BTW, I have many questions about folks who shoot two shot groups to dial in tuners. Supposedly it works...but I cannot figure out how.

Don...Here's a bit of a 'thumb-nail' explanation, the two shot tuner testing is but a search in discovery...for...two shot groups that show the least amount of vertical displacement. But...they can deceive you because without using a chrono at the same time & recording the speed of each shot in each 2 shot group, you will not know whether or not the faster round is hitting lower...meaning...that you are actually shooting and having the round leave the barrel muzzle on the upswing of the barrel. That's what they call 'positive compensation' or some fancy 50¢ word.
Allowing the slower round and it's longer barrel time to leave the muzzle on a little higher muzzle angle.
The slower round arc's a tad-bit higher and drops back near or on the POI of the faster round. But...that's just the beginning because a quality tuner with .001" increment adjustments in barrel length may have 3 sets of adjoining two shot groups that appear close in their vertical displacement...now you have to increase the shot number within the test groups to determine the actual node. Many times those two shot groups have one POI & that helps to find the node much faster but that one hole can be an anomaly...wind can muddy the results pretty quickly.
Sounds complicated but it's not really...but...sometimes it takes many rounds of expensive ammo to find that magic node.
Determination and recording good empirical data is what educates the shooter quickly in future node searches.

[OS OK]

Charlie,

BTW, I have many questions about folks who shoot two shot groups to dial in tuners. Supposedly it works...but I cannot figure out how.

Don...here's an example of a node search on Eley Match, (when I order Match I always buy it rated for 1055 fps) this time they were out of those lots.
Still...the node search won't be far off the 1055 fps node I have for the previous order. I don't need a chronograph here to plot individual POI's, that work has been done earlier in the year. My last lot was rated @ 1055 fps and averages 1080 fps in my barrel/chamber. This new lot is very close.
I don't know Eley's procedure in rating their lots but something I've noticed is...for the half dozen lots I've bought in the last 2 years rated at 1055 fps, their average fps does change by a few fps in my rifle from lot to lot & their ES & SD's change also.

2-shot search for 'minimal vertical dispersion'...(remember to consider the wind, these are not as accurate as they could be indoors)

https://i.imgur.com/MhhwuPF.jpg

A few days later I decide to look at 5-shot groups for settings .036" ~ .032" ...

https://i.imgur.com/DNacY4d.jpg

The tuner work above is done at 50 yards. I chose the .034" tuner setting to move over to the 100 yard range and see how it does? (this is before I was made aware of having to re-tune for the longer range)...

https://i.imgur.com/bz4Cisk.jpg

This is unusual in that I normally will shoot an entire card in one stretch...for some reason I don't recall, I stopped at target 6 for 25 minutes.
When I resumed, I shot 5 warmers on the 'B' spot and then went to spots 7 & 8. The groups opened...I think this is where I started to think that the lube had changed in the barrel in that 25 minutes.
Maybe it becomes 'crusty' or 'dryer'...I don't know or whether the little bit of warmth in the bore bled off and I have a 'cold bore barrel' when I started again, I don't know?
That's something I am still mulling over?

[tazman]

You never know. Your rifle may be the one that uses the same tuner settings at both 50 and 100.
Each rifle makes it's own rules, as does every lot of ammunition.
All you need to do is investigate, as you have been doing, to find out.

[dverna]

Charlie,

I appreciate your patience and trying to help me understand.

What I see in those two shot groups leaves me "empty". There is not enough that "jumps out at me". Many of the "good" groups are different than the "bad" groups by one bullet width. At 50 yards that is the same as misjudging the wind by 2 mph. That speaks to my level of ability. I cannot judge the wind that well. I would have no confidence in what the target is trying to tell me. That is NOT a problem with the method but a problem with ME. I would always wonder if the group is telling me something or I screwed up...again.

I would not have selected the .034 tuner setting based on an average of three groups. That is not enough...at least given my ability to shoot. I need more groups to know if there is a real deference.

After seeing your work, I realized .22 BR was not for me. I do not have the skill set or the pocket book.

But you inspired me to try to try to shoot .22 PCP pellets into less than 1" at 50 yards. It was a practical goal. NSB is getting .5" and that will be my next goal. I am averaging .70" (over 88 groups) using premium pellets so I am getting close to NSB...but no cigar. I have moments of brilliance when I get down to .25"!!! But I know it is mostly luck...LOL. At least I am having fun.

I wish I could spend some time shooting your rifle just to see how bad I am. I am betting you will make your .4" goal. And that is one hell of an accomplishment!

[OS OK]

tazman...Don... At our age it's a blessing to have something like this that we can think about & discuss, tinker with & physically do...more than that, I feel blessed by GOD to have the privilege of escaping this crazy, upside down screwed up world for a few hours each week and enter a state of blissful content as I tinker with my hobby.
Whether .22, CF or PCP the thing that matters is we always have some kind of goal to achieve by keeping the brain muscle flexed & staying physically active...best of it all, we have friends here to talk about it with and they listen like it really mattered.

[tazman]

tazman...Don... At our age it's a blessing to have something like this that we can think about & discuss, tinker with & physically do...more than that, I feel blessed by GOD to have the privilege of escaping this crazy, upside down screwed up world for a few hours each week and enter a state of blissful content as I tinker with my hobby.
Whether .22, CF or PCP the thing that matters is we always have some kind of goal to achieve by keeping the brain muscle flexed & staying physically active...best of it all, we have friends here to talk about it with and they listen like it really mattered.

Excellent! Just excellent.

[atr]

I've enjoyed reading, and learning from this thread. Although I don't "tune" my .22 rifles I do shoot out to 100 yards and I have found that certain types of ammunition give me better results than others.
best
atr
ps...El Dorado used to be my old hunting area.

[OS OK]

Well . . . It's been a crazy winter with record snowfall out here in the land of 'Fruits & Nuts'.
Now it is even crazier with all the rainfall from these atmospheric rivers coming in from the Pacific.
...but...
I've managed a few semi-warm days of near decent weather to get out and shoot. Truth is, Harry Tobin & myself have both been 'Jonesing' for some trigger time. Spring is almost officially here and chances for range time are improving.
Here's the first day out for 2023, it felt good to get some trigger time but this target is of no use for evaluating the wind & offsets here on my range. I can't just note at the top of the target a general wind condition & speed and expect to have meaningful data in the spots below. I'm convinced now that I have to note the wind on each spot...outdoors here in the mountains the wind is too shifty minute to minute...

https://i.imgur.com/GaMO29I.jpg

We left off last year with the goal of finding a tuner setting for 100 yards for this new lot of .22lr Eley Match. We pretty much agreed, thanks to Don that the tuner setting for 50 yards and 100 yards are not likely to be the same.

I thought that I would actually 'tune' at 100 yards instead of 50 yards, then look at only the vertical displacement between settings to locate the 'possible NODE' tuner setting for 100 yards.
Based on this card and the vertical displacement in multiple tuner settings...I am starting off at .035" for the 100 yard bench...

https://i.imgur.com/rBkbs7u.jpg

I know...these groups look much like shotgun patterns compared to looking at our 50 yard groups, especially those 50 yd. groups that are done indoor or outside with a minimum or zero wind status!
That is one of the considerations I have to think about since the wind can greatly affect the little subsonic 40 grain projectile at this distance...it can move your POI a considerable distance from the POA.
At 50 yards & full value from 3 or 9...that POI shifts 3/8". That's huge...that's larger than the groups we aspire to shoot.
At 100 yards & full value...that POI shifts by 1 3/8".
Trying to evaluate these groups gets to be over in the realm of 'guessing'...I keep a pad & pencil on the bench to write down as best as I can recall the various wind angles & speeds on each group shot...this will later give me some clue as to how much error there may be in that group from wind alone. It's tough to determine but it has to be done, I think that this, like anything else gets easier as I gain experience & insight.

Based on the speed of this new lot of Eley Match (1080 fps in my rifle) this chart gives me an expected offset for the various distances...

https://i.imgur.com/Idrhjoa.jpg

This is what I can expect in general direction from the POA and POI from the various wind directions...all I have to add is the actual offsets from the chart above.
Simple huh? I wish I could convince myself of that fact.

https://i.imgur.com/LWZb0m7.jpg

Well...it's a new year & new shooting season & I've had the winter to mull on all this data. One of these days I'll have an actual '0 wind' for an hour or so and I'll find out what my 'scope's zero setting' will be...until then I don't really know exactly?
On the 17 & 18'th this month I got out for a short session, the weather looked like it might be good for a day of trigger time but it wasn't.
I tried & I got my butt kicked real good...but...I still had a good time trying!

https://i.imgur.com/3cB2vd0h.jpg

These are partial cards placed above each other, you can see where I quit early...I was trying to conserve on targets & spots...
This catches me up on this thread for 2023's season, it shouldn't be much longer, maybe middle of April and the weather will warm & the winds may be more stable?
Even though I have much to learn, my goal is to shoot 5 each - 5 shot groups that will average .5" or less and to have all the shots in each group actually cut that 3/4" green spot....meaning that I can actually hit what I aim at with .5 MOA accuracy @ 100 yards. This is the project for this summer!
For me, this is a tough goal, I believe the rifle/ammo combo & bench & accessories will do it but it remains to be seen whether or not I will be the weak link in this chain?

[TurnipEaterDown]

OS OK, why does the wind drift chart that you have attached look as it does?
Shouldn't it be a mirror image split about the 12-6 axis?

If the impact is centered on reticle crosshair w/ still conditions, for a given (i.e. zero) range, wouldn't physics tell you:
Headwind will add drag, and cause increase in drop. Tailwind will decrease drag and decrease drop. If so (explain if you believe not) Drop is not shown correctly in upper right 1/4 image (angled headwind raises impact), nor lower left 1/4 image (angled tailwind lowers impact).

Also, seems like the magnitude of effect is in error.
As the vector angle of a head or tailwind increases from 0° from CL toward 90° from CL, the increase / decrease in drag becomes less pronounced. It is just vector forces.
Like a plane landing: relative ground speed can be reduced at takeoff & landing for headwind, and has to be increased for tailwind. Rudder position is influenced by crosswind. Less vector component of head/tailwind, less ground speed adjustment.
The reason that ideally aircraft carriers turn into the wind for take off & landing, no?

I get that line of sight vs line of travel can fiddle w/ expectations when ranges are changed, but at a fixed range of initial (no wind) zero, I think the graphic has an error.

Left - right wind effect seems OK directionally, and magnitude.

[OS OK]

OS OK, why does the wind drift chart that you have attached look as it does?
Shouldn't it be a mirror image split about the 12-6 axis?

If the impact is centered on reticle crosshair w/ still conditions, for a given (i.e. zero) range, wouldn't physics tell you:
Headwind will add drag, and cause increase in drop. Tailwind will decrease drag and decrease drop. If so (explain if you believe not) Drop is not shown correctly in upper right 1/4 image (angled headwind raises impact), nor lower left 1/4 image (angled tailwind lowers impact).

Also, seems like the magnitude of effect is in error.
As the vector angle of a head or tailwind increases from 0° from CL toward 90° from CL, the increase / decrease in drag becomes less pronounced. It is just vector forces.
Like a plane landing: relative ground speed can be reduced at takeoff & landing for headwind, and has to be increased for tailwind. Rudder position is influenced by crosswind. Less vector component of head/tailwind, less ground speed adjustment.
The reason that ideally aircraft carriers turn into the wind for take off & landing, no?

I get that line of sight vs line of travel can fiddle w/ expectations when ranges are changed, but at a fixed range of initial (no wind) zero, I think the graphic has an error.

Left - right wind effect seems OK directionally, and magnitude.

I think the difference between bullets and airplanes and the way they fly is that bullets have 'spin' and that creates a thrust vector, the Bernoulli Effect...(did that sound official? :bigsmyl2:)

https://i.imgur.com/xtCDRh0h.jpg

Here's another explanation...

https://i.imgur.com/3hWxLOOh.jpg

That should help explain why the chart is not a mirror to itself left side to right. I believe the first chart in the above post is also for just a right handed rifling and for a .22lr subsonic projectile.

The 6 & 12 POI's being where they are I think, is due to the tailwind and headwind on a lightweigh 40 grain subsonic RHT projectile. I can't swear by those two plots for POI's @ 6 & 12 because I don't have a 'calm-no wind zero' for my windage yet...I will believe what I actually see when that happens.

https://i.imgur.com/Bkv45bQh.jpg

Another thing this latter chart maker doesn't mention is speed of the projectile...the actual measured amount of deflection depends on the arc of the projectile also and it's time of flight.
Centerfire specialists take into consideration more factors than we lowly .22lr Benchrest shooters do at 50 yards.

This all could be heavy physics or something but I like just relying on data I will collect on my range since just about all ranges will make your projectile respond differently (more or less magnitude of deflection) since some ranges have walls & trees that limit the wind's ability to influence the projectile during it's entire flight bench to butts.
Here on my range I have hills & trees and my house influencing the wind along with being on a ridgeback...I can't rely on these charts for the exact amount of deflection on my 50 or 100 yard benches.

https://i.imgur.com/rDJaAD4h.jpg

I would like to end up with a chart for my range that resembles this one here...taking into consideration all I mentioned that makes my range unique to these charts.
I would like my first chart to be for 3 to 5 MPH since I see this wind speed all too often during the summer.

https://i.imgur.com/tfOeLR1h.jpg

[tazman]

My experience comes from 50 yard ranges and doesn't necessarily cross over well to 100 yard shooting.
I found I needed to only worry about left and right deflection more than up and down. The wind would push the bullet far more horizontally than it would vertically. This seems to be supported by your diagrams as well.
I would get no more than a bullet width deflection vertically but might get two to three times that horizontally.
The only time this didn't work was when some tall obstruction forced the wind up and over it to then drop onto the range from above(such as shooting in a valley or lanes cut through tall, thick trees). Those vertical winds were very unpredictable because they always had a horizontal component, usually with a swirl in there somewhere.
When you get beyond fifty yards, things change. I don't have anything like enough experience at longer ranges to know what to expect.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Well, there ya go, teaching me things that aren't considered on first look really do matter... :)

I think the spin gets forgotten about often, and I should have thought about that. Maybe the magnitude was just so big on the results of 22 bullet path I just didn't think about what I read 20 years ago. I remember now seeing these considerations on navel guns, and the mechanical computers they used, and recognizing how those WWII battleships really were a wonder of the age.

I have to read this through better, and look in the A Square manual that had a section on such things.

[OS OK]

It's looking more & more like Spring has sprung around the Sierras...temps. in the 60's now and the rain & snow is getting sparce.
Finally, it's shooting weather...been waiting a long time for this.

Looks like I am a bit rusty on this one here...checking a few tuner settings I've used on the 50 yard bench to see how they'll do here at 100.

https://i.imgur.com/Mg3poXMl.jpg

And...here it's a little better, not much but gimm'e a few sessions and I think I can improve?

https://i.imgur.com/PKEjAVDl.jpg

Those are 3/4" green spots and here's a few coins to show scale....

https://i.imgur.com/sVc1e6el.jpg

[OS OK]

Had another nice day to shoot except for the 40ºƒ part...can't use that as an excuse though, I just couldn't 'out-maneuver' the wind...but I'm gaining on it.
The 5 shot group averages are up around .200", I think that's mainly me struggling with the wind, i'm trying to be more patient and just wait for the wind to switch back but...I don't, I look at the wind chart real quick, figure the Kentucky windage for a new POA...apply that & send it...away from the group!
Aw SPIT! :bigsmyl2:

https://i.imgur.com/FyA8hfXl.jpg

I may revisit that .033" tuner setting up top there again, it looks promising, I just didn't give it a good chance to show well.

I found a good deal on Amazon when I went to reorder more 3/4" green stickers (usually $9.00/1000) in single rolls.
These rolls came as an assortment, a total of 10,000 spots in 10 colors...that's a pretty good deal for $19.99 with no shipping costs added.

https://i.imgur.com/VOW097Ml.jpg

[OS OK]

Had a pretty good day for finding that elusive 'scope zero' for 100 yards, it wasn't an absolute 'dead, no-wind' day but it was close.

https://i.imgur.com/OdcxV8vl.jpg

I am pretty good at taking notes and logging data but...I'm the worst for keeping it all organized. I used to keep a small spiral notebook for each of my precision rifles, log load data and test results but...sometimes I put something like a notebook in a safe place and I never see it again. I don't know how that happens but I have quit putting things in 'safe places' because I've lost other things like specialty tools that way & parts and such.
Now I just take a picture and it automatically goes into the photo album when I upload from the iPhone...problem solved.

https://i.imgur.com/B8TKN7il.jpg

[OS OK]

I had an interesting day yesterday...I took levels out to the bench to verify that my setup is all inline with level...
as it was, the front rest was leaning right.

https://i.imgur.com/qTgl6aul.jpg

Next place the rifle on the rest & rear bag and see what is level now...depending on where I placed the level, I got opposite results.
That big flat on the scope ring cap is an easy place to put the level but it is a bad choice...

https://i.imgur.com/feWSDR9l.jpg

The scope is not plumb...

https://i.imgur.com/e9oBNt9l.jpg

I loosened the scope ring caps and adjusted the scope clockwise a tad and they both agree now...the scope, the rest & the bench are all level...

https://i.imgur.com/65gLWI9m.jpg . https://i.imgur.com/ENNAaOtm.jpg

That seemed to put a new 'level' of confidence in my spirit and I proceeded on to get my butt whipped again! The wind...I'm thinking, "One of these days I am going to get it right!"
Till then...I'll just keep posting these train wrecks.

https://i.imgur.com/z7eTIwql.jpg

Target 15, I shot at the center of the spot so I could verify how far the wind was moving my POI.
All the rest of the spots, I am using Kentucky windage to offset my POA.

[dverna]

Charlie, you are very hard on yourself. I think your groups are excellent.

But I guess it shows what a mediocre trigger man I am. Enjoying your journey.

[OS OK]

Charlie, you are very hard on yourself. I think your groups are excellent.

But I guess it shows what a mediocre trigger man I am. Enjoying your journey.

Thanks Don...but...

I don't think of this journey as being hard on me or me being hard on me. I have a rifle and ammo combo that's shown me that it's a 1/2 MOA rifle...IF...I can do my part.
I pretty much have my part down like a machine as far as the sending part goes.

What is kicking my butt is 'Mastering the Wind'...I guess I am a little anxious about that part...but...I fully intend to even if it takes me all summer! :bigsmyl2:
It's little quests like this that keep us Old'Farts 'rising & shining' in our Golden Years.

[OS OK]

Harry Tobin & I have seen too many times now where Eley Ammo has to be re-struck to get ignition. Seems like this subject comes up often in our phone conversations.
Harry shoots Eley Contact quite a bit & I use the Eley Match...I can understand a lower quality ammo $5/box having a few FTF's per brick but Harry is beside himself with this situation...I am having as many as 7 or so in 500 rounds $15.50/box that have to be struck twice! This is unacceptable Mr. ELEY!

Yesterday we decided that we should look into this business of ignition a bit closer and see what is actually happening. (Late last year we both replaced our striker springs and had a close look at the striker face, all was well then but the FTF's were starting to happen all too often.)

When the topic of FTF's come up in this forum it seems like the first thing people want to blame is the rifle somehow...like wrong headspace, weak striker springs, inconsistent strikes & etc...it goes on and on even to the point of arguing about it.

So...it's time to start investigating first hand...here's what the primer compound looks like in the bottom of a 22lr case, one picture with a bore cam & the 2'nd & 3'rd pictures with an iPhone...

https://i.imgur.com/li8kayrm.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/53PqmFPm.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/IqC8CV1m.jpg

It is the same Eley Match case & priming material but the borescope & iPhone put a different color on it...guess it's the light source?

When I have a FTF, I remove the round from the chamber and re-insert it into the magazine with the FTF strike at 6:00...my CZ452 strikes at 12:00.
Is there any difference in the striker indents in these rims?

https://i.imgur.com/ShMy34Ul.jpg

Harry Tobin says..."You need to cut those FTF's in half and have a look inside." Here's the first one I cut (butchered ) as we looked a little closer.

https://i.imgur.com/Ii3lg9Pl.jpg

Harry suggested using a different wheel on the Dremel and try to cut through the FTF primer strike to see whether it is actually flattening that slot in the rim where the primer compound is suppose to be...

https://i.imgur.com/DXTjqQkl.jpg

No doubt about it...the striker in my CZ is hitting with enough authority to crush that rim slot.

As a reference, I'll re-post these pages from Bill Calfee's book... The Art of Rimfire Accuracy ...Harry and I have used Bill's advise in this matter.

https://i.imgur.com/gog50LGm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JOSMVAEh.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/WJMGRYch.jpg

"Have any of you had these problems with any particular brand of ammo? What did you determine..was it ammo or was it your rifle?"

[OS OK]

<2mph and a steady direction is not a '0' wind day...but...it sure is better than anything I've seen so far this year!

https://i.imgur.com/BBt6oJVl.jpg

It is looking like the .036" tuner setting is 'ever so slightly' winning out over the .037" setting but don't let this average deceive you as it has me for so long.
The slightest movement of air at 100 yards...even that movement you only can feel by the hairs on the back of your neck bristling, can move that POI by as much as 1/4".

[OS OK]

A couple posts up, I mentioned 'FTF's' with Eley Ammo. This morning I get a message from a member over on RimfireCenral..

https://i.imgur.com/RG4zMlFh.jpg

This is not good information on a couple angles...For one, I have 6 bricks of Eley Match in stock, 4 of which are a different lot that hasn't been tested & tuned yet!
This is not good...but, guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best as my wife will probably have Kittens if I tell her I'd like to order another $600 worth of ammo! That remedy is out of the question!

That ASIDE & looking for more cheerful news...I had an 'almost no-wind' day...not quite a perfect scope setting day but dang close, I think I am now within a click or two of having that done and I can move on to doping the wind.

https://i.imgur.com/W8oAv4rl.jpg

[tazman]

That news about Eley saddens me greatly as Eley is the only readily available match ammo for me around here.
I still have a brick left from two years ago since I haven't been shooting much for the last year. I guess I won't be ordering new for a while.
Time to do some research on other ammo brands.

[dverna]

I wonder what happened at Eley? BTW thanks for posting that info Charlie. I was looking at getting a couple of cartons but will hold off for now.

[Harry Tobin]

Charlie and me have been talking about this non-fire issue for a while now. I have been having problems with Contact and Semi-Auto benchrest this year in the Savage MkII. With some batting around with Charlie I went with putting a new main spring in the bolt, even with that still having non-fire issues. Don’t know what’s up with Eley ammo these days, did get a chance to get to the bench last week with the new spring installed. I shot 2 boxes of Semi-Auto benchrest. From that session, 100 rounds and 9 failure to fire on 1st strike. Rotate and fired, 2 of them took a 3rd strike. One of them I just racked the bolt a hit the same spot and that didn’t work. I think this ignition problem is also affecting accuracy. From the same tuner setting I’m getting different results. On the bottom set of targets I had the chronograph going, had a good SD but still think inconsistent ignition has something to do with it. 9 rounds of non-fire out of 100 rounds is not acceptable, the Semi-Auto benchrest is from last year. Just got 4 bricks of that a few weeks ago and hope is good.

https://i.imgur.com/jb2N4a5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MBvz6ND.jpg

[OS OK]

As best as I can determine a 'BOTTOM LINE' regarding these FTF's...it is this...

https://i.imgur.com/DXTjqQkl.jpg

You strike the rim and crush it or you don't...that's our bottom line. We've done our part.

The rest is on Eley & is there adequate priming compound in the rim?... "What is going on in that factory?"

[OS OK]

(It's been a busy spring around here, haven't posted anything in a while...haven't been on the range for a while either...)

"I watched the first 15 rounds on my 'sighter spots' rise into my line of sight and then dive into sweet looking groups that were forming...I'm thinking, this is going to be a 'Smoking Hot Card' today!"

https://i.imgur.com/TZVt5ffh.jpg

All wind flag indicators were telling me that I have a 'dead flat wind condition' this morning. Those first 3 sighters confirmed that my 'no wind' scope '0' turret adjustment must be very close or just right...that's been a major concern this spring so...there's a check in that box.
Reading the wind on this 100 yard range has been a difficult study of 5 flags...then trying to come up with a fast wind-dope solution and equally as fast, trying to get 5 rounds downrange before anything changes.
This is the basic idea I have come up with at his point...

https://i.imgur.com/e0G7tvSh.jpg

On the first sighter spot there was not a breath of air moving...not even the hair on my forearm could feel the air...I got my CBS and watched the remaining 4 rounds gather together as the barrel freshens it's lube.
On the second sighter spot I watched the first 2 rounds start the group and it was the third round that taught me a new lesson about the wind. The vane is pointing at 12:00, it hasn't changed directions or indicated any wind since I set it up earlier. The only thing it has shown me is a condition I call a 'nervous flag'. That is where the flag does not show an angle you can associate with wind speed...it just hangs straight down and has a 'nervous quiver'.
Looking back now, I realize that I couldn't see a wind indication 'angle' because the flag was moving straight back towards me...I don't have a perspective and that nervous quiver was actually telling me I have a wind approaching 1 mph. So...end result, I drop the 3'rd round to 6:00 and the fourth and fifth rounds join the first two. (alarms should have been ringing in my head but they weren't...this is a lesson I have to learn the hard way...'again!')
On the third sighter spot, the same thing happens as on the second...only this time it happens on the 5'th round.

Now I think I'm ready to start the card and I am convinced that I'm going to have a smoking hot day...it was exactly at this point the dead air ceased and the vane started slowly tracking back and forth indicating unstable air direction and variable wind below 2 mph.
As usual, I got my butt handed to me and I had an average practice session, nothing to get excited about other than having a better understanding of what a 'nervous flag' is trying to tell me.

https://i.imgur.com/OThFmnrh.jpg

[OS OK]

Here is an exciting upgrade I have been waiting on to arrive...I believe it's capability to display very low wind values is going to make me a better observer & doper of the wind.

https://i.imgur.com/HkisoS9m.jpg

As you can see, it will display the slightest movement of the air...in this photo it is showing 2/10's MPH. (0.2 MPH) You might think, "well...so what?" I might say that .2 MPH on a 100 yard target is a big deal. My last card proved that to me as the slightest of wind coming at the 0900 ~ 1100 just kicked my butt real good!
A small detail I can't overlook with this new meter is that it must be pointing directly into the wind for the best accuracy.
To make that automatic, I ordered a swivel mount with a wind vane that will handle that part, it can sit on the bench just like the old one where I can peek around the scope and see it's value. This vane is for a Kestrel but I can DIY it to work.

https://i.imgur.com/Qvomd7El.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/9efgppTm.jpg

The meter I have been using has been convenient since it does not require my pointing it directly into the wind. It has a weather station type wind-cup assembly, it can read wind from any angle. The drawback to that convenience is that it can't display wind values below 1.3 ~ 1.5 MPH. That is a significant POA/POI difference at 100 yards...

https://i.imgur.com/qycVmkpm.jpg

So...here's hoping I can hold up my end, :bigsmyl2: I should have a '0' wind morning this Friday.

[OS OK]

I ran that new meter side by side with my other one this morning. What a difference, the new one sits there spinning and showing wind as slow as .2mph while the other doesn't spin until somewhere around 1.5mph.
Here's the new one recording 1.3mph while the other just sits there...

https://i.imgur.com/ZDPilool.jpg

That '0' wind morning did not materialize so I managed as best as I could in the low wind...I hope I can look back in August and see some improvement in my groups...

https://i.imgur.com/h3zh5bnl.jpg

I made an improvement in my DIY wind vane. When the wind is coming from 1200 or 0600 it is hard to tell which end of the vane is facing me. This vane is 30 yards in front of the bench and early in the morning it is in shade. I had hoped that the little orange ribbon would show me but I've called the wind wrong several times now as I just can't see it clearly...

https://i.imgur.com/wprMVrnl.jpg

In searching other type vanes I saw one that used a black and white ball on the vane to show which way it is facing...this gave me an idea.

https://i.imgur.com/nugtsiql.jpg

I modified my vane with a plastic disc I cut from the bottom of a jar...until I can re-design mine I think this will do just fine. Eventually I want to run two of this type vane...

https://i.imgur.com/OACo7IKl.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/p8FRTqfl.jpg

This is much easier to see which way the vane is pointing.

[OS OK]

Now that I can read the wind with more resolution, I've decided to add POA(s) to each target on my notepad. I hope to eventually develop a scale of POA offsets for direction and velocity of the wind. I don't mean to make a cheat sheet of sorts like a calibrated wind rose. I don't want more clutter on the bench but I am committing it to memory, I think it will be relatively simple after I've studied enough of these cards.

The problem I see at the moment is that this range is not exactly replicating the offsets I have in the roses I use for reference. I've been thinking a lot about that and it dawned on me this morning that I am working wind across an inclined hill, 9:00 wind is an uphill rising wind and 3:00 is a falling downhill wind...¿this may be the reason for the slight difference?


https://i.imgur.com/ONtTdytl.jpg


When I come in the shop, the first thing I do is transcribe the bench notes to the target and get all that information out of the way before I start with the calipers...


https://i.imgur.com/SnbzB6rl.jpg


I do the measuring last...sometimes I am 20 or 25/1000's off, I try to be accurate but here I'll play the 73 year old eye card :bigsmyl2:...the most important number to me is that 15 spot Agg. ... I want to see that start dropping.


https://i.imgur.com/7GAF3QXl.jpg

[sparky45]

Wow!! Great shooting. I have a CZ 452 Trainer that I'd like to re-stock into something like your CZ's stock. Who's the maker of that stock?

[OS OK]

Wow!! Great shooting. I have a CZ 452 Trainer that I'd like to re-stock into something like your CZ's stock. Who's the maker of that stock?

I don't know...sorry! I bought it built already. The owner passed and the family sold it. I don't even know the barrel maker. I left a note for the family asking questions about the build but I don't think they knew...they never answered.

[OS OK]

I have that vane swivel for the Kestrel adapted for this larger anemometer and ready to go next time out...it will swivel 180º on the vane so I can see the numbers however the wind is blowing.


https://i.imgur.com/n9VEqyUm.jpg ... https://i.imgur.com/U1JYv46m.jpg


Still whittling off a little of that Agg. score, hope to keep this trend going. I suppose that to officially say I have a .5 MOA tool, this will be an Agg. of all the Agg's... :bigsmyl2:...err, something like that?


https://i.imgur.com/rjvwCqKl.jpg


I can see 'some' improvement as I am getting more and more of the groups on the green spot, that's the other half of my self challenge.

I have revised one of the wind roses found on the net...I've placed the red Capitol O's as a primary POA but it is still variable by how much wind there is. It seems like .5 ~ 1 mph will make the POI change by about 1/4" or a full diameter. I'm not sure of that yet, that's the confusing part as I sit there waiting on a wind condition to return and quickly make the shot.

https://i.imgur.com/AZh0bwUl.jpg

[OS OK]

A FRIEND OF MINE HARRY TOBIN shot a fly off his backstop target last week at 50 yards, first shot . . . he got pretty excited about that & told me about it, I thought that was pretty cool and I sent him an email with a joke picture about that...calling Harry 'Legend'...I like to screw around with my Good Friend.

(I changed the wording so I could post this here)

https://i.imgur.com/CvFT1LGl.jpg

We talked it over and in another few days Harry shot another...made big fly guts splatter on the target...I tell Harry, "You oughta make a challenge game of this, this would be fun to try."

So...Harry did...he makes us a card we can compete with and have a break from the usual drudgery of trying to shoot small agg. groups.

Harry says..."Only body hits count, wings and legs don't count" ... then he mails me some cards and I gave them a try!

This is a kick in the pants!

first try...

https://i.imgur.com/zfc4aA7l.jpg

second try this morning...

https://i.imgur.com/FSnRLKml.jpg

It is still good Kentucky windage practice and I use a few less rounds every day. I think I'll be posting these for some time to come now!

[OS OK]

My range is a complicated range to figure wind calls...so,

I have been thinking a lot about a 'method' where I can combine the 'wind call' for the first 50 yards with the call from the last 50 yards and have a combined 'adjusted wind call' for the 100 yards.

After much time staring at all the wind roses, I've decided to simplify this rose into 2 main parts, left & right. There is also the 6 & 12:00 wind call and they are handled on their own merit individually...they don't blend into the 'general call for left & right'...they do figure in the elevation call, either adding or subtracting a smidge but not much...they don't change the vector.

https://i.imgur.com/Xk8EWfrl.jpg

*The 'blue star' is the 'POA Offset' Area. It's exact location is dependent upon wind speed...here min. is '0 wind' <(aim @ center of fly) & max is '2.5 mph wind'. <(aim @ area shown in this picture).

The 'fly body' is aprox. .415" tall & .180" wide ... this size will allow aprox. 2+ diameters of the projectile 'inaccurate' elevation and still take a body hit...also, it will allow aprox. 2 diameters of windage inaccuracy. <(Me thinks?...this has my brain in 'overload mode' lately!)

This is why I started trying to figure a way to 'consolidate & simplify'...if this is possible? I am open for suggestions to a faster & more accurate method. "I am treading water in the deep end today!"

*The black squares represent the 'beaten area (zone)' of the '7~11' left & '1~5' right 'consolidated POI' areas.


Next...I needed that second vane for the last 50 yard wind call, here she is in all her 'DIY Glory'...

https://i.imgur.com/hRv9f8wl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9mIlgSQl.jpg

And now . . . here's the view from the bench where you can see all the streamers and vanes. You notice that the anemometer has had to have it's own tripod just off the front corner of the bench...it's vane is too large to sit on a mini tripod on the bench top.

https://i.imgur.com/hKZcihOl.jpg

With all this 'Hi-Tec DIY Technology' I have going on over here...I just might set this 'Flyswatter Card' on fire! I might just turn into a 'Flyswatting Terrorists',
but...as you can see below...I NEED A WHOLE BUN'CHA-LOT MORE EXPERIENCE AT THIS GIG! �� :bigsmyl2:

https://i.imgur.com/Vk1D8rJh.jpg

THIS IS A HECK'UVA CHALLENGE ... BUT IT'S A HECK'UVA LOTTA FUN TOO!

[dverna]

I started thinking about a "safari on a shoestring" last year when I was being overrun by wasps. I discovered the buggers had made a nest in the column of my shooting bench after killing about a dozen one day. I was sitting almost on top of them! Luckily never got stung.

Later I was group shooting my Daystate PCP at 50 yards. A wasp landed on the target and I hit it...boy that was fun!!

I am too impatient to wait for a fly or wasp to land on a target, so I will try putting some jelly on the target as an attractant. I hate wasps and flies, so the pest control aspect is a bonus.

But I am no Legend. I am thinking of starting at 25 yards and seeing how it goes. I will leave the 100 yards shots to you "Legends"...LOL.

[OS OK]

I started thinking about a "safari on a shoestring" last year when I was being overrun by wasps. I discovered the buggers had made a nest in the column of my shooting bench after killing about a dozen one day. I was sitting almost on top of them! Luckily never got stung.

Later I was group shooting my Daystate PCP at 50 yards. A wasp landed on the target and I hit it...boy that was fun!!

I am too impatient to wait for a fly or wasp to land on a target, so I will try putting some jelly on the target as an attractant. I hate wasps and flies, so the pest control aspect is a bonus.

But I am no Legend. I am thinking of starting at 25 yards and seeing how it goes. I will leave the 100 yards shots to you "Legends"...LOL.

That is funny Don! Harry is the only legend in this game so far...just the other day he slew 21 of them buggers!
and...to top that off with a cherry...he did it with an old Savage MKII sewer pipe that he has completely re-built in his shop...that's the kind of stuff that's legendary and I respect him for that...wish I had his talent but ... I'll stick with my own good looks! :bigsmyl2: