Get a grip on a Blackhawk

[shooting on a shoestring]

I've been shooting my new .357 SSNMBH for little over a year now. Its my first 4" barrel .357. I have a 2" SP101 and a 6 inch Mod 19. The new SSNMBH just will not shoot better than my SP101. More velocity yes, but not as good groups, bench rested or unsupported. I've not loaded anything in the 4&5/8 NMBH that the SP101 wouldn't group better. The SP101 sports a Hogue grip. The NMBH the factory panels.

I've noticed that my grip on the NMBH varies shot to shot. I've strived for consitentcy, but haven't mastered it yet. The revolver slips, I re-grip, sometimes a couple of times, but just don't think I'm gripping it well.

I think its time to look for bigger, perhaps rubber grips. Has anyone had any experience with short Blackhawks and Hogues? Pachmayr? any others?

P.S. I have a beltmountain base pin, cylinder gap is about 0.004", throats are about 0.0005 to 0.0010" larger than goove diameter, sights are good, this thing should shoot decent. I'm getting 4 to 7 inch groups at 25yd with rested forearms. I've run the gamut from Bullseye to H110, 140 grain boolits to 175 grain. My Model 19 keeps everything under 3 inches, most loads 2", the SP101 pretty well holds its groups to 4 to 5 inches at worst, and I've seen some in the 2-3 inch range. Not so with my short BH. I've got to get a grip on it.

[Dale53]

I use and prefer Pachmayr Grips for both my single actions and double actions. They are not pretty but they work extremely well.

Dale53

[freedom475]

I wonder if you have a cylinder alighnment problem?? Have you ever tried shooting a group with each individual chamber? You might find that if you load the same chamber 6 times, you may have a good group form out of one or more of the chambers?

[Lloyd Smale]

One trick for a blackhawk if you have problem with a consistant grip is first to put your pinky under the grip frame and if you make a little nick in the grip where your pinking sits and make sure you feel that nick every time you shoot. After a while it will come automaticly. Its kind of like putting a kisser button on a bow string.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Dang! It's a hog leg, just let that sucker slide!

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree but you really do need to let in slide the same way each time and return to the same grip afterwards. One other thing and I think its whay ffod was trying to say is dont try fighting the gun in recoil let it roll. Putting a death grip on a single action that recoils hard is a guaranteed way of shooting like crap.
Dang! It's a hog leg, just let that sucker slide!

[leadeye]

I'm with Loyd and Mick on this one, the regular plow handle grip is going to want to roll up. Try a Bisley framed Blackhawk and see if you like it better.

[EDK]

I'd go the other way on grips and try a set of EAGLE GRIPS Gunfighter model grips. They are flat on the bottom..more length for all fingers on grip; and are relatively flat with some subtle contouring...I use them on 44 VAQUEROS and BLACKHAWKS with DRAGOON, HUNTER or BISLEY grip frames. They are the only grips that make XR3-REDs usable for me.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[shooting on a shoestring]

Thanks for the input.

I'll try the group per chamber idea. I love experimental science. That could generate some interesting data.

Also a reference point on the grip is another good idea.

I do grip the revolver hard. I suppose going light would be another experiment.

Then I'll order the Pachmayrs and get another set of data.

Thanks Gents.

[Lloyd Smale]

you dont want to use a light grip either. You want a firm grip but not a death grip. the idea is to allow the gun to recoil the same every time.

[725]

All the above advice is right on. I would also add that attention to the trigger pull is a significant factor on those long reach hundguns. If that changes, the POI changes, too. Ensure that the trigger is pulled straight back. Pressure, either pushing the side or pulling the off side of the trigger will push/pull the muzzle off target. It's a subtle manuver but affects the outcome. Most guys (I would say) don't consider it too much, as they just do whatever they do consistantly, so it's not a big source of trouble at the target. I think it's one of those hard to discipline factors that divides good shooters from great shooters. Straight back trigger - bullet straight out. FWIW

[Four Fingers of Death]

The real neat thing about letting the gun move naturally is the fact that it ends up close to you thumb, ready for re-cocking.

[44man]

you dont want to use a light grip either. You want a firm grip but not a death grip. the idea is to allow the gun to recoil the same every time.
I am with Lloyd on this, The gun should raise your arm, not rotate in the hand.
So what if it gets the thumb closer to the hammer? You still need to re-adjust your grip to get back to the proper hold as and after you cock the gun. A sure way to get a different hold between shots.
We are talking accuracy, not speed shooting with pip squeak loads.
I like to control the gun, not let it control me. Letting a cannon roll in the hand is a disaster plus it will string shots up and down. Even my .475 does not "roll" and my grip stays the same. The way it groups does not inspire me to change my grip if I go to a lighter caliber. Even a .22 should be held firmly.
The hardest hog leg to shoot are the ones with pretty, super shiny and smooth grips. Some like pretty and some like to hit things! [smilie=1:
You can change grips at home so the inside of the safe can adore them or your friends can admire them, but for shooting, function over form every time.
Put Pachmeyer grips on the gun for shooting! :Fire:

[Throwback]

Wow... The problem is simple - apples and oranges. I love both guns and my first experience with the Blackhawk was similar. The diference is lock time. The BH has the longest hammer fall of any modern revolver and will not tollerate any fault in your technique. You have to learn to wait for the hammer fall. If I transfer from another pistol to the BH I am always re-educated to the feel of that longer lock time. Pay attention to your technique and hold the revolver steady as that hammer makes its ark and you will find the BH to be a revelation. I am always amazed at the ability of the BH to place rounds with precision out to longer distances.

That said, I have found the SP101 to be one of the most consistently accurate revolvers ever made. The old Ruger DAs and the newer GP100 series are simply unbelievable. I prefer the Smith trigger but Ruger triggers can be improved upon and it is a rare Smith that will shoot with a Ruger.

[Thumbcocker]

Well, here goes, I am putting on my fire retardant undies. I have never liked the traditional single action grip. The only way I could do anything with them is putting my pinky under the bottom but that don't work for me in the kickers. I have never bought into the whole "allow the gun to roll up naturally in the hand bit".

I want my hand, arm, and the revolver to move as a unit. I don't want to have to "rebuild" my grip after each shot. The Blackhawks and supers that I have that are not Bisleys, have Hogues on them. There I said it and I am out of the closet. I put rubber grips on Ruger single actions. :twisted:

If you look at the outline of the hougue, it almost makes a standard grip into a rough Bisley shape. I have given a lot of thought to grinding off the finger groove and having a poor boy converson.

There are few things more personal than personal handguns and you should have them the way you like them as your means allow.

I going to slink off now and await my fate.

[Throwback]

Thumbcocker - Grip is a personal thing. I've seen people shoot very well with a variety of grips and techniques. If it works it works. Many of my grips have been modified. I have also made my own grips. A lot of people like Glocks but they point poorly for me. Oh-well, if we were all the same then we would have fewer guns and that would be boring.

[frank505]

I have been using Hogue rubber grips for some time on my 45, 475 and 500. I do not care for the finger grooves much but a little belt sanding will get rid of most of them. Be careful to not expose the nylon below the rubber. I have recently tried a pair of Hogue laminate grips without the finger grooves. These seem to be fairly thick front to back and I will grind some of the front away. Other than that I do like them alittle better than the rubber one. Time will tell, it may warm up enough to go shooting the big guns soon........ The standard single action grip was designed by a small 11 year old girl, it is way too small for my paws. The bisley just whacks my middle finger knuckle so it was discarded along time ago. There are some modifications you can do to the trigger guard if you have a wire welder, like move it forward and make it a bigger diameter so you can use it with gloves on. You can also modify the gun to keep the trigger at the back of the guard very simply and that gives more room in the trigger guard.

[leadeye]

Check out my post of 10/8/08 which is a Blackhawk with a grip frame modified by welding a 1/2 inch square bar to the bottom of it. Gives the extra length people want without changing the traditional look.:-D

[mtgrs737]

I would try putting the original Ruger base pin back in and see if the groups tighten up. Ruger engineers in a little play in their base pins to allow for cylinder to barrel miss-alinement. It's worth a try.

[44man]

I have found the hog leg is the LEAST sensitive to hold of any grip. I used Pachmeyer grips and would shift my hand a lot to get on 200 meter rams because of position and would still center punch them.
Bisley grips get sensitive and also beat my knuckle. S&W grips get unreal with a .001" shift and miss big time. NO ROLL IN THE HAND ALLOWED to hit targets. The grip does not "roll" even when my wife shoots a .44 mag.
Get a grip! :drinks:

[45r]

I agree with 44 man,get some the PAC grips.I have them on my field grade F/A 454 casull.The gun nearly hits me in the face with Max loads of 296 and my 315 grain cast boolits but shoots under two inchs at 50 yards.It does just as well with HS-6 midloads.Some think the grips are too large but that helps you get a firm grip without too much wobble.There is no way I'd let the gun roll shooting 315's over 1700 fps.Getting hit in the forehead and drawing blood once was enough for me.I'd like to get some wood grips that fit the frame someday but would only shoot midloads when they were on.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`m in the same rowboat with 44man and many of the other submiters here about grips. I actually hate to think what the number of different types of grips I`ve tried while teaching others to shoot their pistols. The 1 thing I believe to be true is to try someone`s else grips before spending cash for a set that you`ll hate. The next truth is to put in practice time with the grips, whether "dry" practice or live rounds - practice. Don`t start with elephant killer rounds when practicing, use milder target rounds and work your way up slowly to the fire breathers. And finally don`t buy grips on the advice of the local cracker barrel expert that has probably never even seen a Colt SAA from a spaghetti eating clone. Basically all I`m saying is look around first before buying.:Fire: Robert

[jar-wv]

I've got 2 45 BH's with Houges and 2 44 SBH's with pachmeyers. The factory grips look a lot better but my hand is to large to shoot with them. When I first got my first SBH I tried holding it many differrent ways, only to find out a new way to hurt my fingers every shot.

jar

[Mohillbilly]

When I got my first FA 83(454) I was used to shoot'n blackhawks, The FA had this playfull habit of nipp'n my second finger with the back of the triggergard. I thightened up my grip just a little,and it no longer bites. I too shoot with my little finger under the revolver grip. I sorta ride the recoil with no flex except at the shoulder. I for the most part shoot standard/factory grips except for the oversized set on my single six, or the fancy stags.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well, I found Hogue grips in a loacal gun shop, put them on the 4 & 3/4 .357 Blackhawk. Looked OK, but they put the revolver higher, now its a stretch for me to cock the hammer with the same hand that's holding the gun. Not a big deal, I generally shoot two handed and cock the hammer with the thumb of the supporting hand. But, the grips just don't fit my hands. Yes they are thicker, but oddly they feel like they have less contact with my palms than the stock grips.

At the range, I couldn't see any improvement in my groups. Been twice, and really wanted this to work, but not happening.

I'm putting the stock stocks back on so I can reach the hammer a bit easier.

The barrel of the BH sits very high to begin with, and I don't think more elevation is the answer. I can see how filling in behind the trigger guard would help when people get thumped by the trigger guard, but with .357s, that's not my problem.

Think I'll look for some Pachmyer (where is spell check when you need it?) grips and try them.

[sixshot]

Are you cocking the gun with your left thumb or your right thumb?

Dick

[44man]

Pachmeyer grips are thinner, longer at the bottom and fill behind the trigger guard. I don't like large grips either and I have large hands.
For the price, they can't be beat.
Remember that the grips will not make any gun more accurate. It might be time to look at trigger control, flinch and sight alignment.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Sixshot...both. I generally shoot two handed, fire a cylinder holding the revolver in my left hand, cocking with right thumb, then a cylinder full holding with the right hand, cocking with left thumb. Except on days when I'm shooting better with one hand than the other, and people are looking, then I stick with that hand till they leave.

44Man....trigger contol...yep that control works fine. Flinch...I always keep a good supply on hand. Sight alignment...hard to say, the blurry things keep moving around.

Part of the problem is I've shot my Model 19 6" since the 70's and it fits me well, I shoot it well, and that set the bar for me, can't carry it well though. Also my I've got my SP101 fitting/working really well, the .357 Blackhawk...not yet. I do shoot my Single Six as well as the Model 19, and my .45 Colt 7.5" Blackhawk shoots well. So I keep taking the .357 BH to the range and working on tuning it, tuning loads and working on the basics. I'll give it another year or two and if I still can't see less than 3" groups at 25 yds consistently, I'll be trading. Its a hobby and not a necessity with this one.

[44man]

Sixshot...both. I generally shoot two handed, fire a cylinder holding the revolver in my left hand, cocking with right thumb, then a cylinder full holding with the right hand, cocking with left thumb. Except on days when I'm shooting better with one hand than the other, and people are looking, then I stick with that hand till they leave.

44Man....trigger contol...yep that control works fine. Flinch...I always keep a good supply on hand. Sight alignment...hard to say, the blurry things keep moving around.

Part of the problem is I've shot my Model 19 6" since the 70's and it fits me well, I shoot it well, and that set the bar for me, can't carry it well though. Also my I've got my SP101 fitting/working really well, the .357 Blackhawk...not yet. I do shoot my Single Six as well as the Model 19, and my .45 Colt 7.5" Blackhawk shoots well. So I keep taking the .357 BH to the range and working on tuning it, tuning loads and working on the basics. I'll give it another year or two and if I still can't see less than 3" groups at 25 yds consistently, I'll be trading. Its a hobby and not a necessity with this one.
You might want to slug the throats and bore to make sure the throats are a little larger then groove to groove. You should be able to get from 3" down to 1" at 50 yd's unless of course, your eyes got old like mine. I found the best way to shoot open sights is from Creedmore. It gets the sights as far as possible from my eyes. I can't shoot open sights from the bench. I can't shoot from a wrist rest either and actually do as good off hand. I rest the end of the barrel and the butt on bags with a red dot or a scope. Open sights are just too close.