Understanding

[Jbuck]

I have been reloading factory bullets for decades but with current events what they are I decided it may be time to start casting my own boolits. When I started researching the process the one concept, I was having a problem with was hardness. Say for example I have a 50lb ball of casting material from a combination of WW, battery post, lead pipe, etc. all melted together. If I test it and it is softer than what is recommended what do I put in it to increase the BH, where is it obtained and not knowing the makeup of the casting material how do I know the amount to add.
I plan on loading .38 special wadcutters at very mild velocities but I also plan on loading .44 Mag, Keith Style boolits to hunting velocities out of my Ruger SBH Hunter and don't want to lead the barrel.
I am sure these are elementary questions to most of the folks here, but we all have to learn somewhere.

[poppy42]

For all my handgun loadings, 9mm,9mm Makarov,38 special, I pretty much use wheel weights what about one or 2% 10 added for fill out. But, I don’t want with my handguns! On my rifle loads which is limited Lyman #2. As far as what to add, antimonium. Straight antimonium is extremely hard the mix into an alloy. A better choice would be Linotype or something like super hard from Roto metals. Type metal can be found on swapping and selling. As for how much, there is an alloy calculator located here on the forum I suggest you do a search and download it. That’s the basic skinny on the questions you asked I hope it helps.

[MUSTANG]

JBUck:

My thoughts on your going forward, some will agree and others disagree:

1. You have 50 pounds of Lead on hand. Some will advocate going to get something else; I am of the opinion of using what you have in life.

2. Rifle or Pistol? My experience is that unless you are a MATCH pistol shooter; lead alloy is pretty forgiving for most shooters applications. If you happen to have a harder alloy; penetration will be greater. You might discover that a hard alloy will not expand when hit by the pressure wave as it enters the forcing cone & barrel. Since you are using this currently in two hand guns; I would cast about 20 or so for the .38 Special and see how your alloy fairs "As Is", you might be pleasantly surprised and it's your most expedient step in getting started with that ball of lead.

Rifle because of pressures and velocity - not so much in the forgiveness area. My experience is more attention to alloy - particularly hardness if you shoot velocities above the 1200 to 1400 feet per second area. Super soft alloys may lead if velocity is greater.

2. Purchase a Lee Hardness tester. (https://leeprecision.com/lead-hardness-test-kit.html). My thoughts are this is where you start. You may not know % of each metal in the alloy, but hardness of alloy is a significantly tracked issue you will see on this and other sites for considering loads. Once you know the hardness; then you can start thinking of how to increase or decrease the hardness of the alloy.

Modifying your alloy hardness will require either adding "Pure" Lead to make less hard; or a "Harder Alloy" to increase the hardness. Your friend in this area will be one of the Sponsors found on the Top Bar of each of the web pages on this site. ROTOMETALS is who I am speaking to: https://www.rotometals.com/bullet-casting-alloys/

To reduce hardness; one would try using a pure lead - ROTOMETALS has Pure Lead Nuggets 99.9% - Approximately 1 pound on their site (or you can use peel & stick on wheel weights if you can find them locally or from sellers who scrounge them and list them) https://www.rotometals.com/pure-lead-nuggets-99-9-approximately-1-pound/

To increase hardness add a product like ROTOMETALS Hardball Bullet Casting Alloy ingot- 5 pounds (2%-Tin,6%-Antimony,and 92%-Lead) (https://www.rotometals.com/hardball-bullet-casting-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-2-tin-6-antimony-and-92-lead/ ) or Linotype Alloy - 5 pounds (4%-Tin, 12%-Antimony, and 84%-Lead) https://www.rotometals.com/linotype-alloy-5-pounds-4-tin-12-antimony-and-84-lead/ or Super Hard Alloy Metal Ingot - 5 pounds (30%-Antimony, 70%-Lead) https://www.rotometals.com/super-hard-alloy-metal-ingot-5-pounds-30-antimony-70-lead/



Just some thoughts.

[BLAHUT]

Just cast some and see what you get on target. I shoot pure lead in all my guns, rifle or pistol, keeping FPS to 1200 fps or a little less. You can PC and will keep any barrel leading to a minim, only need harder lead when you increase FPS. As far as hunting, pure lead will give you total energy transfer with expansion, IE dead meat, down, with a good hit, as in anything, accuracy of the shot placement, is paramount.. Or you can put a gas check on them ?

[Froogal]

I cast .38 special and .45 Colt. I buy 1-20 lead from Roto-metals which is about a 10 on the BHN scale. NO problems with leading in any of the revolvers or rifles.

[Rickf1985]

If your 50lb. ball tests anywhere around the 10BHN range then you should be good to go on all of your guns, including the 44. Too hard and you will get serious leading in a pistol. I do not powder coat myself but those that do swear by it. As far as shooting pure BHN 5.............. I would only shoot that in my black powder muzzle loaders. I certainly wouldn't try something that soft in a modern gun. But if you have the ball tested, which you should do so you have an idea of what you are working with to start with, then you will know what to add to it. And like was said, Rotometals is the lace to go for known good additives. Once you get the hang of how it all works then you can start playing around with making your own alloys but just starting out it is best to use known good products. The other option is to buy Lyman #2 from Rotometals right from the beginning and use that to get the feel for casting, loading and shooting cast bullets. That way you will know how it feels and should feel using known good lead. I can assure you that scrounged lead is never "Known good" or Known anything" for that matter. So casting with it can be a crapshoot and you need to know what to look for when you have problems and know what to try to fix them. When just starting out it is best to start with "known good" lead.

[BJung]

To me, there are three ways to test hardness. You can purchase a hardness tester like the Lee tool mentioned previously. Or, you can take a nickle size lead your casting and squeeze a ball bearing between this piece of cast lead and a pure lead piece. There is a formula that you use to determine the hardness. Or last, you can just buy an art pencil set and scratch the lead you are casting with. The kit costs around $9. After you melt your scrap lead and remove the debri, you'll pour it in an ingot. Lead bhn will change over time. And so, I let my ingots sit and age for awhile. After a few months, I'll scratch the surface and separate my ingots by hardness. The softest ingots are used for my .38 and .45. The hardest for my 40 S&W. I recently used my hard ingots for casting and the ingots sat for a year and were tarnished.

Some casters will take everything they have and melt it into one large pot and have a constant unknown alloy of a specific bhn. I use to do this with my range scrap. Now I separate the source of lead from jacketed bullets that have a commercial standard alloy to a mixture of lead that separated from the jackets and hardcast bullets. Hardness can vary but I plan to use the latter for 9mm and 40cal bullets. I have wheel weights for casting too but I safe those for rifle bullets. If you need your bulllets harder, I'd suggest separating your hardcast lead bullets and adding them into your pot to make harder ingots or find pewter. linotype works but you have to spend money and I don't want to spend money unless I have to. In the general scheme of things, don't take bhn too seriously. Like loading Sierra bullets to Hornady, your load could change. It's the same with bhn. If you have a lower bhn, you'll probably just have a lower charge weight for your accuracy load.

Remember to slug your barrels so your cast bullets are sized 1/1000 to 2/1000 over the slugged diameter. This is important.

[Bazoo]

Pends on how much of what you had what you got. If it’s mostly wheel weights, 3/4 or more I’d say your alloy is suitable for 44 mag. Any alloy will likely be suitable for 38 wadcutter because there isn’t as much demand on the alloy.

You need to just go ahead and get used to removing lead and use the choreboy pot scrubber method on a brush to do so in quick order. No your gun shouldn’t lead but don’t be afraid of experimenting because of that horrible scare of leading. It isnt hard to remove if you scrub it using a tight fitting pot scrubber.

My method is, take a solid copper pot scrubber and unroll it. Cut a length ani it 6” x 1.5” and wrap it around a bore brush. Put the bore brush in the frame opening, put the rod down the bore and thread the brush on. Then pull it into the bore, a bit of solvent or remoil for lube. But tight scrubbing action is what works and it’ll take only a minute.

Do similar for the forcing cone but use a longer piece of choreboy and make sure it’s enough it won’t go in the bore. Use a fixed handle rod, I use a bent section of rifle rod. Spin it with pressure pulling into the bore and it’ll scrub a forcing cone clean in a jiffy. I have used a section of rod chucked in a drill for that too.

Once you get this down, leading is only a 5 minute job.

Also, a load that shoots clean will remove leading from a leased bore. Even if it’s a plain based bullet load. I once had a full bore 357 mag load using 38-150-swc RCBS bullets. It would remove the leading from some loads that did lead in a gp100.

And, if you have issues, switch and use gas checked or PCed bullets is not a sin. I use them all. Though I’m still learning the PCing thing.

[BJung]

This is where I am PC coating. You can start with a #5 rated plastic tub, some styrofoam pieces, and a spoonfull of powder paint with 1-2 handful of bullets. Shake them up around 3 minutes. Or put everything in you tumbler and it'll be easier. Use spring operated long nose pliers to pick out the bullets and place them on a stick free aluminum sheet. Bake in a used toaster over for 20 minutes at 400 degrees and then pour them out on the ground. If you water temper the bullets, the temper will be affected by resizing. Resize and shoot later or water drop again. You'll get different results. Not all PC is the same. Some will flow out nice. Use what others have tried and recommended. Others will leave blotches. I overcame this last week by mixing a white and an orange that baked rough. Together, the color turned tan with white speckles. Not bad. Remember to size your PC bullet atleast 1/1000" over your bore. PC emcapsulates the entire lead bullet and prevents leading and reduces friction.

[LenH]

FIT is King all else is secondary.

That being said, use what you can get your hands on and don't stress over hardness issues.
I have a pile of range lead that measures around 10 to 11 BNH with a Cabintree tester. I use that for .38 loads & .45colt.

The guy that taught me loading and casting said you need Lyman #2 90-5-5. Those are some hard bullets and a waste of tin and antimony.
I came to this forum and found out a whole lot about alloys and casting.

Just like everthing else, some opinions here will vary and you need to sort it out and find out what works for you.

[pworley1]

If the alloy you have will fill your mold with crisp lube grooves on your bullets you should be able to use them. If you size them correctly (1-2 thousandths above groove diameter) you should not have any leading. If the alloy does not produce crisp lube grooves just add tin until it does.

[Land Owner]

You don't say WHAT lead-alloy you have just, "Say for example I have...", which are two totally different things. There are alloy calculators on this web site. You will find them.

Remember, our reloading ancestors had NO Brinell Hardness testing as it had yet to be invented. They used PURE LEAD and killed buffalo, moose, elk, and EACH OTHER with frightening regularity.

LenH nailed it - "FIT is KING." Pour a 38 wadcutter and a 44 "Keith" from soft lead, or soft lead-alloy that is begged, borrowed, or stolen. Liberally lube the barrel and MASH these "slugs" down the muzzle through the barrel's rifling and out of the chamber of each. Be careful, use a wooden brass or aluminum dowel, don't screw up the crown.
[LATE NOTE] Agree, wooden dowel would be a bad choice.

Measure the diameter of each slug created. Write that down, so you don't have to do it again in the future. These are your BORE DIAMETERS. Buy molds that pour boolits ~0.002" LARGER in diameter than these slugs.

You have received a LOT of suggestions and recommendations above already...prepare for more. Melt and combine PURE LEAD (Pb) with CLIP ON WHEEL WEIGHTS (WW) and TIN (Sn) at the proportion of 49-49-2 percent Pb-WW-Sn. More than 2% Tin and you are throwing money away, imho. This is close to 50 to 1, lead to tin, and works GREAT for killing animals. While I have not, this alloy will also kill people.

Buy the "$9" pencil set, see PENCIL HARDNESS TEST on this site, you will find it, and test your alloy hardness on the cheap. Hardness is not the problem. Scrounging cheap components to melt is the larger problem.

Do not sweat the SMALL STUFF and it is ALL small stuff.

[Dusty Bannister]

Do NOT use a WOODEN DOWEL. If it splinters, you will have a chore for a gun smith. Get aluminum or brass that nearly fills the bore of the barrel.

You might get away with it in a hand gun, but not a long barrel.

The slug will give you the bore diameter (smaller measurement) and the Groove diameter (larger measurement). Size larger than groove diameter.

[Bigslug]

Dive in here and start reading: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners

That info, plus a hardness tester will take you far.

Key needs would be an antimony-rich base metal for hardening up too-soft scrap - i.e., Rotometals Superhard; tin for improving fillout during a difficult casting session (or improving toughness); and means for cleaning up a dirty alloy (skimming, fluxing, etc...)

And, as you'll find out, there's WAY more to the whole barrel leading thing than hardness levels. Welcome to the asylum!

[stubshaft]

Cheapest way to harden it up is to use recycled lead shot! I "mine" lead shot at the local skeet range, clean it and alloy it in. It usually contains 5% antimony.

[WRideout]

There is a member on the forum who goes by BNE (screen name). He has access to an XRF analyzer, and is willing to do analysis on mystery lead for the grand cost of one pound of lead, any description. He is a most generous man, and would most likely be willing to help you sort out what's in your "lead ball." Once you know that, the alloy calculators can come into play for figuring out what to add for you desired purpose.

FWIW: Most of the time, there are more problems related to lead being too hard, rather than too soft.

Wayne

[dtknowles]

FIT is King all else is secondary.

That being said, use what you can get your hands on and don't stress over hardness issues.
I have a pile of range lead that measures around 10 to 11 BNH with a Cabintree tester. I use that for .38 loads & .45colt.

The guy that taught me loading and casting said you need Lyman #2 90-5-5. Those are some hard bullets and a waste of tin and antimony.
I came to this forum and found out a whole lot about alloys and casting.

Just like everthing else, some opinions here will vary and you need to sort it out and find out what works for you.

Yep, I have a lot of solder and type metal that I don't use much. Seems range scrap works for most of what I load. I am more often chasing softer lead for black powder than making hard bullets.

Tim