Bad Advice

[warren5421]

Wife and I went out to eat and had the table next to us occupied by a dad and 12 year old. Dad went on the whole time about the use of force. A person goes to punch you can shot them. You shoot a bad guy in the back you go to jail. A guy pulls a knife on you, don't shoot them. You get the idea. They are in Indiana, he is carrying an M&P and has almost no idea what the law is here. The son wanted to just play a video game. I wanted to till him how stupid he sounded and to lower his voice but thought he wouldn't take it very nice.

[BLAHUT]

Can't fix stupid, duct tape helps to quiet it thow ??

[contender1]

Sadly,, you just can't fix stupid, (as noted above.) But if I'm in a public place,, & were to overhear something like that,, I'd have to POLITELY interject myself.
I'd POLITELY say; "Excuse me,, but as a Firearm Instructor, and a holder of a CCW,, I think you are mistaken about the legal issues concerning the use of deadly force."
Then,, hopefully,, from there, we'd enjoy a productive conversation about deadly force.

[Winger Ed.]

I try to ignore those kinds of people.

I've found it's like giving singing lessons to a pig:
No matter how hard you try to teach them-- They'll never be able to sing, and your efforts actually rather annoy them.

[poppy42]

Sadly,, you just can't fix stupid, (as noted above.) But if I'm in a public place,, & were to overhear something like that,, I'd have to POLITELY interject myself.
I'd POLITELY say; "Excuse me,, but as a Firearm Instructor, and a holder of a CCW,, I think you are mistaken about the legal issues concerning the use of deadly force."
Then,, hopefully,, from there, we'd enjoy a productive conversation about deadly force.

Yea, I don’t think I would do that. If the guy was alone I might do as you suggested. Extremely politely. But a dad with his son and you injecting things like that you basically just told that son his father is an idiot. in doing so you totally embarrassed and degraded a father in front of his son. If it was me and you did that even if I knew I was an idiot I’d still tell you to mind your own business. And in my case, especially if I was young enough to be trying to teach my son something, even if it was idiotic, I would’ve probably punched you square in the beak! Lol
It’s been my experience the fathers in front of their sons don’t like to be corrected about anything they’re telling them unfortunately. Person doing the correct thing tends to get a testosterone fueled reply a one sort or another. Lol

[trails4u]

That's a lot of detail regarding an eavesdropped converstion..... Holy cow, your wife must be a bit more forgiving than mine! I'd be in deep **** paying that much attention to someone else's table whilst having my bride out for a meal......

[snowwolfe]

Its none of your business what people at the next table are discussing.

[contender1]

Notice I said I'd POLITELY offer a comment.
And if he got offended,, I'd apologize & step away.

But I also try hard to put forth a positive image for ALL gun owners. And if given the chance,, I like to educate people who may not know something about firearms.
I teach, I carry open & concealed, I compete, I hunt, I serve on a FoNRA committee, I serve on a state gun club BOD, I work closely with the NRA, & in general, do as much as I can to put gun owners in a positive light.
If a guy who's carrying a gun gets offended by my POLITE comment,, AND he wants to escalate it, I'll be doing all I can to extract myself from his anger. I'll be apologizing & retreating. If he wanted to take a swing at me,, well, I can handle that as well. BUT, he'll be the one who will be perceived as the aggressor, AND when I defend myself, (w/o a gun unless he pulls his first,) he'll lose even more.
And yes,, I'd go as far as calling the police. And my wife would also be doing the same. We are a team and have taught hundreds of people firearm skills. Just yesterday, a State Highway Patrol officer contacted us about another class for ladies. He has several who wish for a class. And she's my back-up, as well as me being her back-up.

A bad gun owner reflects upon ALL of us who try hard to show the world we are not crazy. Just look at how the media portrays anybody who commits a crime with a gun. Yet,, when a lawful use is put forth,, not much news, nor is it kept in the limelight by the media. By being POLITE,, and offering a bit of correct information, MAYBE the person would be open to learning a few things,, and even taking a class, and even bringing his son.
Make gun owners look good.
Ignoring the problems like this do not make them go away. And, when bad stuff happens,, we good gun owners take a beating in the media.
I fight to change that as often as I can.

[Char-Gar]

Notice I said I'd POLITELY offer a comment.
And if he got offended,, I'd apologize & step away.

But I also try hard to put forth a positive image for ALL gun owners. And if given the chance,, I like to educate people who may not know something about firearms.
I teach, I carry open & concealed, I compete, I hunt, I serve on a FoNRA committee, I serve on a state gun club BOD, I work closely with the NRA, & in general, do as much as I can to put gun owners in a positive light.
If a guy who's carrying a gun gets offended by my POLITE comment,, AND he wants to escalate it, I'll be doing all I can to extract myself from his anger. I'll be apologizing & retreating. If he wanted to take a swing at me,, well, I can handle that as well. BUT, he'll be the one who will be perceived as the aggressor, AND when I defend myself, (w/o a gun unless he pulls his first,) he'll lose even more.
And yes,, I'd go as far as calling the police. And my wife would also be doing the same. We are a team and have taught hundreds of people firearm skills. Just yesterday, a State Highway Patrol officer contacted us about another class for ladies. He has several who wish for a class. And she's my back-up, as well as me being her back-up.

A bad gun owner reflects upon ALL of us who try hard to show the world we are not crazy. Just look at how the media portrays anybody who commits a crime with a gun. Yet,, when a lawful use is put forth,, not much news, nor is it kept in the limelight by the media. By being POLITE,, and offering a bit of correct information, MAYBE the person would be open to learning a few things,, and even taking a class, and even bringing his son.
Make gun owners look good.
Ignoring the problems like this do not make them go away. And, when bad stuff happens,, we good gun owners take a beating in the media.
I fight to change that as often as I can.

Well, you need to be mindful of where you place your soap box. Injecting yourself between a father and son is entirely the wrong place. Once the fathers blood starts to boil, it is to late to apologize and calmly back off. Very bad things often happen by not minding your own business. You are taking yourself and your resume far to seriously.

If I were a witness to what ensured and the cops asked me what I saw, I would tell them you started the fight and so would everybody else in the room.

[waksupi]

I had the situation, and did a dodge by telling the person the state legislature had recently made some changes to the law, and they may want to get on the internet to look it up, to be sure.

[fatelk]

I like waksupi's method! There are ways to say things carefully, in such a way to get a message across without offending.

Personally I do mind my own business, but if the advice I happened to overhear was bad enough to be dangerous, it might be prudent to casually strike up a conversation by complimenting the father, saying how nice it is to see a man spending time with his son, talking about important things like self defense. If a compliment is taken with a smile, then it might be prudent to casually mention legal changes and reading up on current law, as above. Just a thought.

[georgerkahn]

Wife and I went out to eat and had the table next to us occupied by a dad and 12 year old. Dad went on the whole time about the use of force. A person goes to punch you can shot them. You shoot a bad guy in the back you go to jail. A guy pulls a knife on you, don't shoot them. You get the idea. They are in Indiana, he is carrying an M&P and has almost no idea what the law is here. The son wanted to just play a video game. I wanted to till him how stupid he sounded and to lower his voice but thought he wouldn't take it very nice.

I have lonnng applied the old "mind over matter" response: If you consider the mind, it does not matter!"
geo

[Handloader109]

Best just keep your opinions to yourself. You won't ever change a guys mind by interjecting yourself into his conversation. Just don't, and I don't care about your training. It won't matter an iota

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[ebb]

get up and move to another table out of ear shoot.

[Three44s]

get up and move to another table out of ear shoot.

This is what I was thinking!

Three44s

[elmacgyver0]

Best just keep your opinions to yourself. You won't ever change a guys mind by interjecting yourself into his conversation. Just don't, and I don't care about your training. It won't matter an iota

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Probably keep you from getting shot too.

[ulav8r]

I had a situation a few years back while eating lunch. A nearby table had a state trooper, 2 or three county deputies and at least one out of stater. The out of stater asked about Arkansas's new law that "allowed" open carry as I walked by on my way to the restroom. At that time Arkansas's Attorney General had stated that the new law "might" pass a court review if challenged. So, as I walked by I interjected that the law might allow open carry, but that Arkansas's legislators were incapable of writing a clearly worded law that stated their exact intent. My bladder did not allow me to linger or offer any further opinion.

[john.k]

I would never approach anyone who is mouthing off........before I retired I had the misfortune to work with young ,macho men.........I would say 90% are meth and steroid takers,and a whole lot of them have hair trigger fury inside them......did I mention paranoid delusions?....dangerous unpredictability?....rage?.....thats just the nice things I get to say about them.

[contender1]

Trust me when I say I truly appreciate ALL the comments made. And I hope I didn't come off as boasting etc. That wasn't my intent. More to show I have the credentials,, and can articulate to others as an instructor & hopefully help them.

And I agree that if the father appeared to be "aggressive" in any way,, I most likely would NOT have engaged in any form of discussion. I would "read the room" so to speak, and if it appeared that he might have been the type to engage in a polite conversation, I'd do so.
But if he appeared to be "young ,macho men.........I would say 90% are meth and steroid takers,and a whole lot of them have hair trigger fury inside them......did I mention paranoid delusions?....dangerous unpredictability?....rage?.....thats just the nice things I get to say about them." I would have moved to another table or even left entirely.

I appreciate all the good folks here & their opinions.

I wasn't there,, I didn't see the father,, and didn't hear his conversation. So,, I'll just back out here & not comment further.

[SoonerEd]

Trust me when I say I truly appreciate ALL the comments made. And I hope I didn't come off as boasting etc.
Not at all. A good discussion with different points of view and styles. Makes me think about how I should handle a situation like this so I don't just act without thinking. If your an instructor, maybe just introduce yourself as one, let them know you love it when a father takes the time try and teach his kid, then offer your services maybe to help out "the kid". Or maybe some other way to be inviting and not correcting...just a thought.

[slim1836]

I hear lots of advice given in public restaurants and refuse to get drawn into a debate especially when it comes to gun related issues. I didn't live this long by being drawn into other people's conversations without being asked first. I do however listen a lot while going about my business, live longer that way.

Slim

[barnabus]

idk whats worse..a idiot or a know it all who feels the need to get between a father and son

[john.k]

Im lucky in that respect....I can hardly hear anything spoken in a noisy setting,couldnt even hear the parties two houses down that the other residents wanted me to join a complaint about.

[danmat]

That's a lot of detail regarding an eavesdropped converstion..... Holy cow, your wife must be a bit more forgiving than mine! I'd be in deep **** paying that much attention to someone else's table whilst having my bride out for a meal......

I have seen my wife and her sister shsssss each other so they could hear the next booth or table, yea they got it bad.

[FISH4BUGS]

You are taking yourself and your resume far to seriously.
Now THERE is the best answer in this whole thread.

[nekshot]

I look at this post the same as the jack —ss that thinks he has to wear his handgun on his thigh in public. I learned to loath and disagree with a smile on my face! Kinda feels better to me and sure is a lot less hassle.

[DocSavage]

Father talking to a 12 year old about self defense with a firearm,first off what planet is the father from talking to his kid about the use of a firearm in self defense he's 12 years old its the least of his concerns. If dad is telling the kid this subject as far as the law goes right or wrong info the father has a few screws loose. Kids have enough to worry about as is never mind the subject of "self defense "

[Rapier]

Discretion is the better part of valor and discretion has a lot to do with being right about anything.

[kfd518]

Best just keep your opinions to yourself. You won't ever change a guys mind by interjecting yourself into his conversation. Just don't, and I don't care about your training. It won't matter an iota

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

And those are the kind of people “won’t ever change a guys mind” that create a lot of the problems with the world today. Those that have no will to learn new things or methods. If a GROWN “man” can’t accept that he is wrong and be willing to listen to someone that may be more knowledgeable in the subject at hand then he needs to re think some things. If I am wrong in something I tell my son and someone else over hears it and corrects me, the most important lesson of my sons life may be taught and learned in that exact moment. If you are wrong own up to it, admit it, learn the correct information, and move on!
The worst thing a man can teach his son is to not admit when he is wrong and learn how to correct the situation of knowledge.

[farmbif]

I agree with the crowd that says you just cant fix stupid. I mind my own business and let others say and do whatever they will as long as it doesnt cause me or anyone I care about any harm, inconvenience or loss.

this is exactly why the NRA should spend more time and money promoting and producing youth and adult educational safety and shooting programs. who knows where the next olympic gold medal shooting champion may come from but if there were more youth shooting programs there would be better odds that USA would bring home more gold. and maybe fewer kids doing stupid things with guns.
didn't mean to get this sidetracked but today I spent some time thinking about my old mentor, Marvin Williamson, when I was was much younger, he was a coach to the olympic trap and skeet shooters and I have more respect for that man than most anyone else I ever met in my life. I was lucky to have known him and being a helper in his gunsmith shop put me on a good path though my life.

[elmacgyver0]

I have seen my wife and her sister shsssss each other so they could hear the next booth or table, yea they got it bad.

The old folks used to call that "rubber necking".
My mom called it "being newsy".

[Winger Ed.]

The old folks used to call that "rubber necking".
My mom called it "being newsy".

Another was, "I don't gossip,,,,, so I'm only going yo tell you this once".

[warren5421]

We were not wanting to hear the dad but he had one of the very high voices you could here over a room of a 100 people all going full bore. We ate as quick as we could as it was irritating and neither one of us wanted to say anything to the guy. They were not setting anyone around them when we left. We were already seated when they were seated. The cost of eating out I was not getting up till I finished. Normally we don't hear the people around us.

[trebor44]

Karens and Kens, no need to join their ranks. Overhearing a "conversation" from another table is distracting from the food on your table. Call the server and ask to be moved because of .....

[JSnover]

These days it just isn't worth it to express disagreement with a stranger, especially when they're not speaking or interacting with you in any way. Maybe the kid will be smart enough to learn on his own and develop a better approach to life in general.

[Geezer in NH]

Its none of your business what people at the next table are discussing.

Thank You

[kerplode]

Sadly,, you just can't fix stupid, (as noted above.) But if I'm in a public place,, & were to overhear something like that,, I'd have to POLITELY interject myself.
I'd POLITELY say; "Excuse me,, but as a Firearm Instructor, and a holder of a CCW,, I think you are mistaken about the legal issues concerning the use of deadly force."
Then,, hopefully,, from there, we'd enjoy a productive conversation about deadly force.

This wouldn't go at all like you imagine. He'd probably tell you to STFU and mind your own business...Which is actually pretty sound advice.

[JoeJames]

I had a situation a few years back while eating lunch. A nearby table had a state trooper, 2 or three county deputies and at least one out of stater. The out of stater asked about Arkansas's new law that "allowed" open carry as I walked by on my way to the restroom. At that time Arkansas's Attorney General had stated that the new law "might" pass a court review if challenged. So, as I walked by I interjected that the law might allow open carry, but that Arkansas's legislators were incapable of writing a clearly worded law that stated their exact intent. My bladder did not allow me to linger or offer any further opinion.Ages ago a local Circuit Judge told me to tell folks if I was not sure of the law on a certain subject at that time to "tell 'em the law is kind of fluid on that matter right now". I have used that regularly over the last 46 years.