Encore in 45-70

[ebb]

A friend has asked for me to do some reloading for him and his son, they both own 45-70 encores. They want to load lighter bullets cause the recoil is too much with the 300 plus bullets. The plan is to take some Thompson saboted bullets that are 45 caliber on the OD of the sabot and have a 155 grain 40 caliber bullet already in the sabot and load them in 45-70 cases. They are most likely for black powder (haven't seen them yet) and I am wondering if the sabot is the right diameter for the 45-70 barrel? If this ever evolves to the actual loading stage, what powder and charge weight would i use, as I assume that this may have never been done before and no data is available. Also, they asked about a lightweight cast bullet they could find nothing on the web for sale less than 250grains. Does anyone make a bullet or molds for .458 in the 180 -200 grain range?

[FredBuddy]

Huh. NOE's "collar button" mould makes
a 186 gr. boolit, and an old edition of a Lyman
book has loads for a similar boolit. Lots of fun.

IIRC Western bullets sells a version of the collar button.

The collar button bullet was used for indoor
training by the US Army back in the day.

[fixit]

How about the 240 grain maxi? I don't remember what the front land measures, but it might work....

[Milky Duck]

round ball perhaps be easiest????

[Castaway]

45 bullets in sabots are 0.452”. The bore diameter of a 45 cal muzzle loader is right around 0.450”, giving a groove diameter in the vicinity of a 45-70. The sabot with bullet is right around the correct size. Use data for the combined weight of bullet and sabot. The obvious applies, start low and work up.

[NSB]

300 grain ARE light bullets in the 45-70! Load some 300g up with Unique and see how they work out. If you think about it, it sounds like they’re “over gunned” if light loads in this cartridge are bothering them. Maybe they should get rid of the 45-70 barrels and get a lot lighter chambering for their Encores. The Encore is a light gun and it’s not really going to solve their problem just shooting a lighter load. They need something that produces a lot less recoil and uses a lot lighter bullet. They’re working their way down to 45cal ML type loads and even those will be stiff in that light gun. Good Luck.

[stubshaft]

300 grain are light bullets in the 45-70! Load some 300g up with unique and see how they work out. If you think about it, it sounds like they’re “over gunned” if light loads in this cartridge are bothering them. Maybe they should get rid of the 45-70 barrels and get a lot lighter chambering for their encores. The encore is a light gun and it’s not really going to solve their problem just shooting a lighter load. They need something that produces a lot less recoil and uses a lot lighter bullet. They’re working their way down to 45cal ml type loads and even those will be stiff in that light gun. Good luck.

amen!

[DocSavage]

Fired a Contender in 45/70 300 gr factory. Even with a muzzle brake it was bot my idea of fun.
I've a Seaco mold block that casts a 250 gr wadcutter that came out at .4565. That bullet over 20 gr 4227 was a pussycat in an 1885 Browning.

[Ramjet-SS]

Load down a 300 grain hard cast over some unique. 900-1000 FPS is very mild.

[CLAYPOOL]

I think the Western Bullets i bought were 212 gr. 6 Grs. Unique Load, Crack ? loud? but no noticeable recoil. Sorry fun loads...Collar Button Bullets......

[Sgt H]

Since they are asking you to reload for them I assume they are shooting 300 grain factory loads. In the light Encore those have about 25 ft lbs of recoil, more than a typical 30-06 sporter. I load 12 grains of Unique under a 300-350 grain cast boolit which give a muzzle velocity of 1100-1150 fps. Recoil is about 25% of the 300 factory loads. The 300-350 grain boolits have enough weight to provide decent accuracy a lot farther than the collar buttons. I shoot these in cowboy gong matches out to 200 yards.

[Wayne Smith]

If you can verify what Sgt H assumes then listen to him. Talk to them about a lighter load rather than a tiny boolit in a big bore. The Lyman 457122 Gould HP would be your other choice if they are interested in buying a mold. Lyman still makes it and several of the custom makers have a version, HP and non-HP. I have the Encore Katadin and the Gould at around 1100 is my load of choice.

[Sgt H]

Wayne, glad you brought up the Lyman/Gould HP, my favorite boolit for hunting deer with the 45-70. I load them a bit faster 1400-1450, but even at that level recoil is a just bit more than half the 300 factory loads. A very effective boolit for deer since the late 1800's. If they are using these rifles to hunt deer the Lyman/Gould HP, cast soft would be the best option IMHO.

[Nazgul]

45-70 is a very versatile cartridge. it is easily loaded. down with just about any bullet weight.
If I remember right, IMR 4895 powder can be downloaded without trouble.

Check the loading manual, LEE shows the lower loads.

Don

[FredBuddy]

If you really want to explore light boolits,
paper patch some 45ACP boolits or you
can powder coat them up to size.

Paper patch works better and is a real
hoot to shoot.

But the good ole Lyman 457191 at near 300 grs
with trapdoor loads has allowed some youngsters
around here to bring home the deer.

[Ed K]

Suggest they trade their 45-70 Encores for Contenders :grin:

An Encore with a 300-320gr cast boolit @ 1100 fps as has been suggested should be no more rough to shoot than a 45 Colt revolver