Signs of excessive heat damage to beeswax?

[huntinlever]

I made MML the other week after years away. I'd forgotten how difficult I'd found it to melt the lithium grease using a soup warmer left over from our old restaurant. Essentially a double-boiler - on high, the water boils. Simply, it never even started melting. Pretty good fit between the insert and the warmer but perhaps there's too much heat loss. I really don't know.

I ended up putting the soup insert on a heat diffuser on the stove and even then it took significant heat output to get any action.
I kept it constantly stirring, getting into he sides and bottom-bend of the insert with a flexible silicone scraper constantly as in making custard, to avoid hotspots and localized burning. Eventually, it did melt, but there was significant smoking.


I should have chopped up the paraffin and microwax blocks. As it was, there, too, it seemed to take forever, again, seemed they needed a high heat (on the diffuser).

Finally, I took the insert of the heat for a few minutes and added in 3 lbs of yellow beeswax pastilles (I'd forgotten what they were called - granules). Solid block, returned and took off heat to get melting, with melt rate increasing as mass gave way.

My concern is that I basically fried the beeswax and rendered the lube unusable. I had no thermometer. Are there signs one has ruined the properties of the beeswax? It solidified into exactly what my memory serves as MML, at room temp.

I have a spare small microwave. Next time I think I'll just do it this way, on lower power.

[gwpercle]

It's been my experience with Lithi-Bee lube (1 part Lithium grease and 3 parts Beeswax) that lithium grease doesn't melt ... it only softens when heated and must be mechanically blended into the melted Beeswax .
I'm not sure what to look for in "heat damaged" beeswax ... Ben's Red Lube when over heated takes on a brownish color instead of red but the lube is still good .I do know that at 400 degrees F. the stuff (beeswa ) will reach it's flash point and burst into flames. The commerical lube maker who gave me the Lithi-Bee recipe warned me not to reach the Flash Point because the pot erupts in flame and burns pretty good ... Keep a fire extinguisher and pot lid handy was his words .
But I use an old crock pot set on high to melt beeswax and soften Lithium Grease and blen it with a big metal whisk ... let it cool and solidify and then do it again ... and one last time !
The three meltings and stirrings completely mix it and using a crock pot keeps the temperature low enough where nothing burns or over cooks or bursts into a roaring fire .
Paraffin is also easy to melt .
I think as long as the beeswax didn't reach it's flash-point ( 400 degrees F ) the lube should still be usable .

Two pieces of advice :
1.) Forget the Micro-wave oven ... you will never get the smell out ... ask my wife !
2.) melt and blend lube in an old crock pot , not your wife's good one she cooks in , and you will never have to worry about scorching or burning .

To make my Lithi-Bee I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky Lithium Grease 1 to 3 ratio by weight , if too soft add a little paraffin wax to stiffen it up . I've never had leading with this lube .

Good luck ,
Gary

[huntinlever]

Great, thanks Gary. Trust me I've learned to steer clear of my long-suffering wife (ever tell you about brewing 20 gallons at a time and keeping a full-size reefer in the living room with 4 taps....a cask and an English beer engine? Full size hard cheese aging cave...in the BEDROOM? I am still alive so cut my losses and this microwave stays in the basement. Or I do).

I actually followed a recipe I got from somewhere, but it was from a long time ago and it seems I got the order precisely backwards, from what a member messaged me. I started trying to melt the lithi, then micro, paraffin and finally beeswax:


Melt the grease....add the micro/paraffin.........add the beeswax....keep it just molten for a few minutes while stirring to ensure it is all homogenous....your done.

-exercise in futility trying to "melt" the lithi first. Thanks for the info, will do.

[gwpercle]

Your wife is a Saint ... Beer in the Living Room and Cheese in the Bedroom ...:holysheep !!!

Lucas Red-N-Tacky lithium grease never melts , per se but only softens ... the whisking of the mix three times , in the crock pot , does the blending .
Stay below 400 degrees F no matter what ... even a small beeswax flash fire is scary.

What is the ratio's for MML ... I'm not familar with it ...
Lithium grease - paraffin wax - beeswax ... evidently it is Lithi-Bee + Parrafin to stiffin ...
Sounds like it might be a recipe I need to write down ... the Lithi-Bee is a soft lube

Us lube-makers ,,, We have to stick together :drinks:
Gary

[huntinlever]

Your wife is a Saint ... Beer in the Living Room and Cheese in the Bedroom ...:holysheep !!!

Lucas Red-N-Tacky lithium grease never melts , per se but only softens ... the whisking of the mix three times , in the crock pot , does the blending .
Stay below 400 degrees F no matter what ... even a small beeswax flash fire is scary.

What is the ratio's for MML ... I'm not familar with it ...
Lithium grease - paraffin wax - beeswax ... evidently it is Lithi-Bee + Parrafin to stiffin ...
Sounds like it might be a recipe I need to write down ... the Lithi-Bee is a soft lube

Us lube-makers ,,, We have to stick together :drinks:
Gary


Lol, oh man...she's put up with so much. Imagine the reefer in your BR, a full-scale Alpine aging cave in your basement, a large flour mill in your DR....and staying alive.

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https://youtu.be/hscC6OeTL40

Thanks on the info. Here's the MML I use:

3 LB Yellow Beeswax
1 LB Canning Paraffin
1 -14oz tube of cheap caramel colored lithium auto grease
1/2 LB Microwax 430 from blended waxes .com

[gwpercle]

Paul ,
Thank's for the MML recipe ... the commerical lube maker told me to harden the Lithi-Bee lube with a "little" paraffin wax if I wanted a firmer lube but he didn't say How Much ...
this gives me an idea of how much paraffin and/or micro wax to use . Lithi-Bee is a soft lube and sticky in hot weather .

What does MML stand for ... I searched with no avail ... do you know ? ... :holysheep Never Mind ... found a " Mike's Micro-Lithi " ... danged if a blind squirrel doesn't find an acorn now and again ...
Now ... Who's Mike !

Paraffin wax and Micro waxes... use a big metal cheese grater and grate them with coarsest blade/side and this realy helps them melt faster ...
Gary

[huntinlever]

Thanks on the tip, Gary. Sorry, another member asked for the name and I should stop using the abbreviation. I think it means "Mike's Magic Lube". I love it for cool to cold weather - in the field it has performed beautifully in brutally cold conditions off a cold barrel.

[gwpercle]

I've never had any leading with a lithium - beeswax lube .

The commercial maker who gave me the recipe , Garth Choate - Choate Machine & Tool , told me he believed it was better than the 50-50 Alox-Beeswax NRA lube he sold at the time and sent me some free samples of the Lithium-Beeswax to try ... after trying the stuff ... and finding it to be a real winner (no leading in hot 357 magnum loads) I never went back to the Alox based lube . I don't know why more people haven't discovered Lithium based lubes but the Lithi-Bee Lube and Mike's Micro-Lithium lube should be a lot more popular than they are .

I'm glad to see MML and Lithi-Bee being talked about ... maybe others will try them and see how well they work .

Lithi-Bee is 1 part Lithium Grease (Lucas Red-N-Tacky) with 3 parts Beeswax
if this mix is too soft add some ( 1/4 to 1/2 part Gulf parafin wax)
All measurements are in ounces-pounds , by weight .

MML ... aka ... Mike's Magic Lube or Mike's Micro-Lithium lube ... ???
3 lbs. yellow Beeswax
1 lb. Gulf Canning Parafin
1 - 14 oz. Tube Lithium Automotive Grease , cheap or Lucas Red-N-Tacky
1/2 lb. LB Micro Wax 430 from www.blendedwaxes.com

Alright you lubers out there here are some good lube recipe's that use Lithium Grease and they really work... If you have never tried MML or Lithi-Bee and you are having leading problems ... Give Lithium a try... I have never had Lithi-Bee lubed bullets lead a barrel in over 40 years of use ... I can't just be that Lucky ... it must be the Lube !
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP>>>

My concern is that I basically fried the beeswax and rendered the lube unusable. I had no thermometer. Are there signs one has ruined the properties of the beeswax? It solidified into exactly what my memory serves as MML, at room temp.



If the lube looks like a previous batch that worked and this current batch doesn't smell like burnt sugar, you lube will likely be OK.

[huntinlever]

Thanks guys. It actually smells great (says I. And my dog is OK with it. Wife, well...)