Sharps Rifle suggestions

[Thundermaker]

I'm finally in a position to get myself a nice sharps. I've handled enough Armi Sport (cimmaron) rifles to know that I don't want one of those.

The prices on pedersolis have gone up to the point where I might as well go with one of the two US makers.

So, I'm open to suggestions at this stage.

C. Sharps or Shiloh?

Are there any features that are a must?

45-70 won't do everything I'll want to do with it. I hope to attempt a mile shoot with it while my eyes are still good enough. I'm looking at .45-110, but would a .50-90 be better?

Shiloh offers the "Quigley", which is nice, but is a 34" barrel too much?

[HWooldridge]

I owned a Shiloh in 45-70 - it was superbly finished and very accurate.

[gc45]

what are you planning to shoot at one mile? hope its not some poor animal.

[45-110]

I have 2 .45-110's, a C. Sharps and a Shiloh, both great shooters. I already have my brass, but trying to stock up now is near impossible. For extreme long range shooting I prefer the 34" barrels.

[Don McDowell]

You can get barrels up to 34 inches on about all the Shilohs
The Quigley is a poor choice for long range completion
Look at either a #1 or LRE 32 inch heavy barrel in 45-90 100 or 110
You’ll likely find brass for the 90 and 100 a good long time before you can scare up enough 110 brass

[Don McDowell]

And don’t overlook the model 77
Which ever rifle you choose you will need to get the MVA car Buffalo soul or get an extention that raises the eyebrows cup on the soul sight that will give you enough elevation to reach the mile target

[Thundermaker]

What specifically makes the Quigley a poor choice, so that I know what to steer away from?

[Don McDowell]

The drop in the stock and the military butt don't lend itself to shooting prone very well. Also the lack of a pistol grip to help with follow thru and maintaining a good cheek weld.

[Thundermaker]

I see. Now that you mention the 1877, shiloh's "English rifle #1" looks good.

[Bent Ramrod]

The Quigley stock, for modern target shooting, has a lot of drop in it. Very 19th century, though.

It also has the narrow military style buttplate, often seen on the original buffalo guns, but if you’re not as tough as a hide hunter and plan on firing 50 shots or more a session, the “shotgun” style buttplate is more comfortable.

You might get by with the Quigley Model (which does look very period and cool) if you use an Accu-riser on the stock for a cheek rest, and a Past recoil pad on your shoulder.

You might wind up using those whatever model you get, in whatever Sharps caliber.

[Thundermaker]

I wasn't dead set on the Quigley. In any case, it'll be 2024 before I get to the mile. That's going to take a lot of load development. Also, nobody has brass for anything other than 45-70, and, according to the people who regularly compete in the game, that cartridge won't get me where I want to go.

[Don McDowell]

The 77 is a fine long range rifle. I like it real well. I also have a couple of #1's and rough riders, and an LRE. Plus a #3 which is much like the Quigley only lacking the hartford collar and the engraving. Love that rifle for hunting, but it's a killer trying to shoot prone.
The 45-90 or 45-100 will do real well for the long stuff, the 45-70 is good to 1000 and works quite well for midrange and sillhouette.
If you're planning to have the rifle up and running for 2024 best either call Shiloh and order now or go thru Bill Goodman.

[Thundermaker]

What about double set triggers? Are they a help, a hindrance, or just personal preference?

[Don McDowell]

Double set triggers are the norm but I like a smooth crisp single trigger

[Minerat]

I just got my Shiloh 1874 SPORTER #3 in .45-90 30", in mid October from Bill Goodman. One of his order guns. It's not the fanciest model but not bottom of the line either. The brass was ordered at same time as the gun, Starline backorder, still not in. She's a safe queen until the brass comes in.[smilie=b:

[Thundermaker]

Well, I sent a message to Norma about their ".45 basic" brass. We'll see what they say.

[762 shooter]

I had both, but it was 20 years ago.

One was a C. Sharps with a Shiloh marked barrel, before there was a Shiloh Rifle Company (Wolf marked).

The other was a C. Sharps after the split.

Fit and finish goes to the first one.

762

[ian45662]

Do you think you will ever shoot BPCR silhouette with it? If so I think a 70 or 90 would be the way to go. You can use bore diameter bullets and get 80 plus grains in a 70 case. Even more in a 90 of course. If you go with a 110 then that might be tough to shoot silhouettes with. Plus if your going to shoot sillywets then you will want to keep the weight of the rifle right at 12 pounds and that’s with sights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deadeye Bly]

A designated long range rifle with a long heavy barrel and a high capacity cartridge will not be ideal as a recreational shooter rifle. You might as well resign yourself to the fact that you will need two rifles. You'll probably end up with two or more anyway, one for fun and recreational shooting and one for serious long range business. With that said Jim Ratcliffe in Ohio has a 45/100 that he uses for everything from silhouette to 1000 yd and he is a tough competitor. He is an exception though.

[Jeff Michel]

Some of it may depend on how much of a hurry your in. I've had two Shiloh's on order for for close to 19 months, they may start on them sometime after the first of the year. The last C. Sharps I ordered was 411 days to delivery. Then there's always the used market to fall back on. I use mine for hunting and casual target work,nothing competitive. If you are going to shoot matches I would probably steer clear of the 50-90, great round, I have two but a long string of shots is pretty tiring. I think 45-120/45-110 brass is going to be tough to find and expensive when you do. I passed recently on two Shiloh 45-120, older Big Timber's, nice. Decent price and the owner had a 1000 rounds of Norma 45-120 new brass he was selling separately. At 6.00 per round it was exactly double the price for either rifle. I wouldn't sell the 45-70 short and folks shoot is effectively at long distance, brass is a piece of cake compared to the 45-90 and 45-100 brass I've had on back order from Starline since last February. As to quality, I have I have 4 Shiloh and 5 C.Sharps and I like them all about the same. Fit and finish is good on both and shoot a lot better than I do. I have a couple Pedersoli's as well, and they will hold their own with both the Shiloh and the C Sharps accuracy wise. If you can find one used, get it. It makes the waiting a lot more bearable while they are building the one you order. Nothing like a Sharps.

[Gunlaker]

I'd pick a Shiloh over a C. Sharps any time, based on my experience with them. As for options, if you want to shoot at far targets I'd recommend a pistol grip stock with little drop and a shotgun butt plate. Long Range Express, #1, or the newer Rough Rider stock. I'd pick a .45-90 at minimum, but the .45-100 will be a better choice. The .45-110 is great, but you'll have a hard time getting brass. I bought plenty back when the Normal .45-2.88" brass was easy to get.

Unless you plan on shooting off hand, heavier barrels are better. I prefer them to be longer than 30" personally, as they just seem more stable on cross sticks, unless they are a bull barrel rifle which is very steady on the sticks.

I think the ideal choice is my most recent Shiloh. 16lb bull barrel .45-100, 1:16 twist, 30" barrel, modern Rough Rider stock. It's set up for a 23" MVA scope as well as a LR Buffalo Soule and Windgage front sight.

Chris.

[JKR]

I own both C Sharps and Shiloh. I’ve won long range matches with both. I prefer the C Sharps only because it’s two pounds heavier which helps dampen the recoil somewhat.
For long range, a heavy rifle with a high comb and pistol grip stock is desirable. More important is that you learn to read wind and load perfect ammunition.
JKR

[Woodtroll]

Shiloh all the way. Great rifles and great customer service.

C. Sharps can also make a fine rifle, but the owner is dishonest. I may buy one of their used rifles some day but will never, ever buy a new one from that company. Might as well give your money to Biden.

[M-Tecs]

Shiloh all the way. Great rifles and great customer service.

C. Sharps can also make a fine rifle, but the owner is dishonest. I may buy one of their used rifles some day but will never, ever buy a new one from that company. Might as well give your money to Biden.

That's how I ended up with my 45-100 C. Sharps. I am very happy with it. Shoots awesome and fit and finish is equal to my friends Shiloh's. The only thing I don't like about it is no pistol grip but that's how it was ordered. The original owner ordered it at the NRA Convention is Minneapolis in the early 90's. He paid a significant amount for high grade wood. When it arrived the wood was very average. C Sharps would not do anything about it. My friend was so PO'ed he only shot it a couple of times. Later he sold it to me for his cost minus the wood upgrade.

Every person that I have talked to about Shiloh only had one complaint and it was always the same. They didn't like having to wait for the back-order times.

[almar]

I have a pedersoli sharps long range model and a winchester 1886 both in 45-90 but i should be getting my 45-110 from goodman sometime in january. 45-90 brass was hard to find during the covid era but when it became available i stocked up a bit. The only source of 45-110 is 45-120 brass that you trim down and although it is expensive, you wont cycle through it like normal high pressure brass if you use black. Maintain them well and they will last many more cycles. Some say a lifetime but i haven't lived a lifetime yet to know.

[JKR]

I love Sharps rifles, don’t get me wrong. But, knowing what I now know about BPCR long range competition, if I were to build a rifle just for long range, it would be a High Wall.
JKR

[DocSavage]

I've a Shiloh LRE love the rifle fitted with an RHO Malcolm scope but I made one minor mistake if you want to calling that it has a 34" heavy barrel and it weighs in at 14 lbs. I'm not a long range shooter 100+ yards but the extra weight of the barrel sure dampens recoil especially when using 500+ gr bullets. Rifle is 45/70 .

[SoonerEd]

I've got a Shiloh in 45-90 and it is a great rifle. I like it better for long range silhouetes than my pedersolli rolling block in 45-70 as it is extremely accurate if you can cast high precision bullets. However the pedersolli handles 28,000 CUP smokeless powder which makes it a better general purpose rifle for hunting and non-serious target shooting.

[M-Tecs]

I've got a Shiloh in 45-90 and it is a great rifle. I like it better for long range silhouetes than my pedersolli rolling block in 45-70 as it is extremely accurate if you can cast high precision bullets. However the pedersolli handles 28,000 CUP smokeless powder which makes it a better general purpose rifle for hunting and non-serious target shooting.

28,000 CUP/PSI is standard SAAMI for the 45/70. At 28,000 PSI and CUP are the same. The point is Shiloh is safe at 28,000 PSI/CUP. If SAAMI doesn't have a spec all manufactures say BP only for the older BP cartridges.

Example here:

http://www.texas-mac.com/BPCR_Firearms.html

Shooting smokeless ammo in your Browning or Winchester BPCR:
A question I’m asked a lot is, “Can I shoot smokeless ammunition in
the Browning or Winchester BPCRs”? I addressed this issue in more
detail in my book but thought I’d also provide a response here to
“head off” additional questions. Due to liability concerns, I’m not
going to make a recommendation on using smokeless in your BPCR,
but I will provide some details to help you make an educated
decision.

All the Browning and Winchester BPCRs with Badger barrels are
identical concerning the source and the material used. All the
barrels are made from high quality SAE 4150 chromemoly steel.
The Browning .45-70 rifle barrels are marked RECOMMENDED FOR
BLACK POWDER. The .40-65, .45-90 and .50-90 rifle barrels are
marked …BLACK POWDER ONLY. Browning’s Owner’s Manual clearly
states that the .45-70 can also accept the pressures of
commercially loaded smokeless ammunition with jacketed bullets.
Therefore it’s clearly OK to shoot smokeless ammo in the .45-70
BPCR. Of course the ammunition must meet SAAMI specifications.
But the same factory recommendation does not apply to the
Browning .40-65, Browning or Winchester .45-90 or Winchester .50-
90 rifles.

Browning proof-tested the Badger barrels prior to selecting the final
barrel supplier. During the test, pressures were increase to a level
sufficient to liquefy the brass and drive it into the extractor slot.
The brass was cleaned out and the testing continued without barrel
failure. Based on the test results, “calculated” failure pressures
were well above any range expected to be reached with
commercial smokeless ammo.

So why can’t smokeless ammo be used in the .40-65, .45-90 or .50-
90 rifles? The barrels are quite thick and heavy, with lots of high
quality steel surrounding the chamber and bore. With the
exception of freebore and a slightly longer chamber, the .45-90
bore is identical to the .45-70. The chamber and bore dimensions
of the .40-65 are smaller than the .45-70, resulting in additional
barrel material surrounding the chamber and bore. The answer is
because Browning and Winchester are SAAMI members, and SAAMI
does not specify chamber dimensions and ammunition standards for
the .40-65, .45-90 or .50-90 cartridges. Consequently, due to
liability concerns, Browning and Winchester made it clear the .40-
65, .45-90 and .50-90 rifles were designed for BLACK POWDER ONLY
by clearly stamping the barrels accordingly. It’s certainly your call,
but personally I would have no concerns about shooting
commercially loaded smokeless ammo in one of my Browning or
Winchester Badger barreled BPCRs.

Wishing you great shooting,
Wayne

[stubshaft]

There is nowhere to shoot long range blackpowder in my neck of the woods, so I'll just stick to plugging hogs and goats with my Shiloh 1874 Carbine.

[JKR]

There is nowhere to shoot long range blackpowder in my neck of the woods, so I'll just stick to plugging hogs and goats with my Shiloh 1874 Carbine.

A perfect example of the perfect rifle for its intended use!

JKR

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I have a pedersoli sharps long range model and a winchester 1886 both in 45-90 but i should be getting my 45-110 from goodman sometime in january. 45-90 brass was hard to find during the covid era but when it became available i stocked up a bit. The only source of 45-110 is 45-120 brass that you trim down and although it is expensive, you wont cycle through it like normal high pressure brass if you use black. Maintain them well and they will last many more cycles. Some say a lifetime but i haven't lived a lifetime yet to know.
Not sure where you get your information, but you’re mistaken. Norma makes the 2-7/8 case and you don’t have to trim 45-3-1/4 to do so.

It’s this kind of misinformation that needs quashed.:veryconfu

I been shooting the cartridge since 1994 that’s 28 years and never made brass from a 3-1/4 case.

Kenny Wasserburger

[almar]

Somebody needs to breathe from a paper bag for a bit, can you find this norma brass at the moment?

[Don McDowell]

Norma doesn’t list either of their 45 basic brass on their website

[almar]

Norma doesn’t list either of their 45 basic brass on their website

Do you know if this common practice for them, or are they discontinued like some distributors mention?

[Don McDowell]

Don't know , but my guess is discontinued due to lack of sales/orders

[45-110]

I would bet that if Norma made a run of 10,000 or more .45 basic cases they would be sold in a week. There surely are a lot of shooters waiting to restock their case supplies, and MFG's are still chambering new rifles in 45-110.
kw

[Don McDowell]

It would probably take some one to contact Norma and order 10-20k to get them back in production
Even at that it probably wouldn’t happen until the demand for 6.5 Jenner and 9 mm crinchintinker to get caught up

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Somebody needs to breathe from a paper bag for a bit, can you find this norma brass at the moment?

Someone needs to get their facts straight.

I just checked Norma’s website still shows 45 basic the 2.880 and the 120.

I received 100 cases from buffalo Arms less than a year ago, and have 100 more on order.

KW.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

307547307549

[Don McDowell]

They don’t have a price on them and when you scroll down thru the drop down tab the only thing 45 that comes up is 458 mag

[Thundermaker]

I found .45 basic on the sight in the components section.

That being said, nobody in the US actually has any in stock .

[M-Tecs]

On another forum a Norma spokesman started Norma has stopped production of the lower volume items until they get caught up with the high demand items. That is normal within the most industries.

[almar]

On another forum a Norma spokesman started Norma has stop production of the lower volume items until they get caught up with the high demand items. That is normal within the most industries.

That seems to be the likely cause. For now you do what you have to. There is no easy living under this admin. I had to buy 22 hornet brass from gunboker at twice the price just to feed my rifles, it is what it is.

[Thundermaker]

The admin has nothing to do with it, just people's stupid reactions.

[Thundermaker]

Well, I just called shiloh. It seems it'll be about 2 years before I get the rifle, so there'll be plenty of time to scrounge brass.

[Gunlaker]

It'll be worth the wait. All of my Shiloh's were :-).

What did you order?

Chris.

[Thundermaker]

It'll be worth the wait. All of my Shiloh's were :-).

What did you order?

Chris.

Haven't yet. I'm still deciding what exactly I want.

[Gunlaker]

Well here are some pics to put some ideas into your head :-). A couple of my long range rifles.

The first is my Shiloh in .45-90 with a 1:16 twist, 34" barrel followed by a 300 yard target shot prone. This is one of the better targets shot at that distance but not the best one. Long range Express, extra fancy wood, checkering, 34" 1:16 twist heavy barrel, .45-90 windgage sights.

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/Photos/Shilos/DSC_0092.JPG

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/Photos/Shilos/Shiloh-45-90-459540M3_0001-small.jpg

Next are my two most recent rifles. The top one is the one I'd use if I wanted to go for the mile, but it doesn't have the sighting equipment to get there. It's a Roughrider ( be wary if buying a used rifle, the old Rough Rider stock is nothing like the new one ). Semi fancy wood with checkering, 30" 1:16 twist, 16 lb bull barrel in .45-100. I basically copied Jimbo Terry's bull barrel rifle but made mine a bit lighter. I scored for him once at the Money Match in Colorado and it's a memory I won't forget. Jimbo's a heck of a shot and more talented than me, but I had that rifle on my mind for the entire trip from Colorado back to Montana. When I ordered it, Lucinda said that they weren't planning on doing a bull barrel run for a long time, but I told her it didn't matter how long it took :-)

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/Photos/Shilos/RoughRiders.jpg

If you are serious about shooting a mile, I'd seriously recommend sending a message to Kenny W. and getting his advice on sights.

Chris.

[Thundermaker]

I'm leaning towards a .45-100, just because an American company offers brass for it.

[ScrapMetal]

If you want to speed up the process a bit you can order your rifle from http://www.shiloh-ballard.com/ He charges a fee for the service but says he can get you your rifle (depending on what you order) in months rather than years.

FWIW

-Ron

[Gunlaker]

Yeah Bill Goodman's service is a very good option.

Chris.

[Minerat]

That's where I got mine. Bill is a good guy and easy to work with.

[Slaughter]

Check the Shiloh Rifle Company every day. They have a gun inventory room, which occasionally some guns pop up in. One day I saw guns on their, waited a few days to think about it, checked again, empty. Few months later, checked, they had 3 or 4. I picked a 34 inch heavy octagon barrel 1874 Sporter and ordered it immediately. I had ordered a Quigley in 45-110 and had been waiting about 12 months, so figured I would get something to use right away and give me time to learn black powder reloading, etc.. Well worth it. Now it has been over 26 months apparently there are some engraving issues over. Oh and I have been looking for 45-110 the whole time, no luck.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Their master engraver passed away last year. So they are a bit behind on that.

As to 45-110 brass I talked to BACO today, they need 600 more pieces ordered before Norma will fill it.


So?

I have 100 on back order from about 10 months ago.

KW

[Thundermaker]

Well, if I ordered 600 pieces, that'd last me a lifetime.

[Gunlaker]

Their master engraver passed away last year. So they are a bit behind on that.

As to 45-110 brass I talked to BACO today, they need 600 more pieces ordered before Norma will fill it.


So?

I have 100 on back order from about 10 months ago.

KW

That's not bad! Only 2 or maybe 3 shooters need to order a supply for their new rifles.

Chris.

[Slaughter]

BACO? Is that Buffalo Arms?
Thanks.

I’ll order some today, just need to make sure I order from the right place.

[Thundermaker]

BACO? Is that Buffalo Arms?
Thanks.

I’ll order some today, just need to make sure I order from the right place.

Yes. Buffalo Arms COmpany

[Slaughter]

Thank you.

Just ordered 300, hopefully we get more orders in soon.

[Mikedominick]

They've got two rifles in stock over on the Shiloh website, both 45s.

[Thundermaker]

They're both .45-70. I have inquired as to whether or not one can be rechambered to .45-110, since one of them is already pretty much set up the way I would want.

[Don McDowell]

If you think you want one of those rifles, you probably best keep track of the office hours and call first thing Monday morning. They will lengthen the chamber but it will cost a bit extra, but chances are pretty good neither rifle will be there Monday.

[stubshaft]

If you think you want one of those rifles, you probably best keep track of the office hours and call first thing Monday morning. They will lengthen the chamber but it will cost a bit extra, but chances are pretty good neither rifle will be there Monday.

Knowing the demand for Shiloh Sharps rifles I'd be sending e-mails right NOW!

[Gunlaker]

I wouldn't rely on email. I'd call. Sometimes they get pretty busy and take a few days to answer emails.

Chris.

[stubshaft]

I wouldn't rely on email. I'd call. Sometimes they get pretty busy and take a few days to answer emails.

Chris.

I agree, but an e-mail will give you a timestamp if push comes to shove. The last e-mail I sent took almost three weeks for them to reply.

[Thundermaker]

Knowing the demand for Shiloh Sharps rifles I'd be sending e-mails right NOW!

Well, it's not that critical, since it will be months before I can get brass.

[M-Tecs]

Personally I would grab the in-stock rifle is it's what I want. Lengthening the chamber is easily done. To me that a better option than waiting a year or two. With posting enough WTB in enough locations you will find enough brass until another batch is ran.

Stretching is also an option. http://texas-mac.com/Stretching_Short_Brass_To_Fit_Your_BPCR_Chamber.ht ml

[LIMPINGJ]

Check with Bill Goodman in MT.
http://shiloh-ballard.com/shiloh_sharps_rifles_for_sale.htm

[Thundermaker]

Well, rifle and brass are ordered, and I snagged some swiss 1.5f. I talked with Corbin about a swaging die for a 540gr, dual diameter PP elliptical bullet. I'll get 2 rams, one for a cupped base and one for a flat base.

That's my plan for now. Wish me luck, gentlemen.

[M-Tecs]

Are you having one built or going with one that is in stock?

[Thundermaker]

Are you having one built or going with one that is in stock?

Since BACO told me it was going to be a good while before they got my 110 brass anyway, I decided to put in a custom order through Mr. Goodman. That way, I get exactly what I want, instead of something that's kinda close. He believes I chose a good set of specs. Time will tell.

[ScrapMetal]

Be sure to check back in and show us what you bought. :mrgreen:

-Ron

[Thundermaker]

Oh, I'm sure I'm going to have a ton of questions when I get into the whole loading process. You'll probably be seeing a lot about that rifle.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Well, rifle and brass are ordered, and I snagged some swiss 1.5f. I talked with Corbin about a swaging die for a 540gr, dual diameter PP elliptical bullet. I'll get 2 rams, one for a cupped base and one for a flat base.

That's my plan for now. Wish me luck, gentlemen.

There are several good moulds, that have won national championships available in paper Patch. Just a lil fyi, I have never been beat by a swaged bullet, lot of work for no approachable gain, my casting sessions weight spread runs .3-.4 tenths of a grain weight spread on 65-70 bullets. The world record PP group size in Pedersoli’s famed 5@200 match was shot with a 518 gr PP bullet of my own design, 1.336 inches for 5 Shots. It was cast of 16-1 alloy. In my old 45-110 Creedmoor Rifle.
Oh and forget the cup base also.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Don McDowell]

Kenny's right, a number of good moulds out there that will cast bullets from a suitable hard alloy, much easier and less expensive than swaging.

[Lead pot]

Well, rifle and brass are ordered, and I snagged some swiss 1.5f. I talked with Corbin about a swaging die for a 540gr, dual diameter PP elliptical bullet. I'll get 2 rams, one for a cupped base and one for a flat base.

That's my plan for now. Wish me luck, gentlemen.


TM,

The .45-2.6 is a good caliber and it's good you chose to go with what you want for your rifle.
I have a .45-2.6 (.45-100) and it can be loaded down to a .45-90 or loaded up to the .45-110 using a proper wad stack. Mine is not a Shiloh it's an 1877 Axtel and it has a 34" barrel and weight in at right at 12 lbs.
I'm interested in your choice of the Corbin Swage die. I use both Corbins, Richard and Daves equipment and it has served me well at the shoots I attend and they have held me in fine shape at the end. That particular bullet in the photo has the 1.5 S ogive a very close to the Medford bullet and it shot a 41 at the Quigley but it kept me out of the top 10 with a tiebreaker.
Which ogive design are you going with?

I tell you what :D when push comes to shove and you get your rifle before you get your brass and get itchy to shoot it let me know and I have some I can give or loan you some so you can foul the barrel :D

Kurt

308088308087

[M-Tecs]

The way I am reading this the OP went with the 45 2 7/8"?

[Thundermaker]

The way I am reading this the OP went with the 45 2 7/8"?

That's correct. The decision came down to the fact that BACO was getting an order filled for .45-110 brass. I went ahead and pre-ordered 500 pieces. That's probably enough to last me a lifetime.

[Thundermaker]

TM,

The .45-2.6 is a good caliber and it's good you chose to go with what you want for your rifle.
I have a .45-2.6 (.45-100) and it can be loaded down to a .45-90 or loaded up to the .45-110 using a proper wad stack. Mine is not a Shiloh it's an 1877 Axtel and it has a 34" barrel and weight in at right at 12 lbs.
I'm interested in your choice of the Corbin Swage die. I use both Corbins, Richard and Daves equipment and it has served me well at the shoots I attend and they have held me in fine shape at the end. That particular bullet in the photo has the 1.5 S ogive a very close to the Medford bullet and it shot a 41 at the Quigley but it kept me out of the top 10 with a tiebreaker.
Which ogive design are you going with?

I tell you what :D when push comes to shove and you get your rifle before you get your brass and get itchy to shoot it let me know and I have some I can give or loan you some so you can foul the barrel :D

Kurt

308088308087

I actually went with the .45-110. Mr. Goodman tells me the rifle should arrive sometime this coming summer. BACO could not give me an ETA on the brass.

Corbin tells me that their die for rockchuckers will be perfectly sufficient for what I'm trying to do. They're about $280. They offer a design with a 1.5e ogive. They also said that a dual-diameter wouldn't be a problem.

I planned to go with swaging because it would give me better uniformity and ensure that there are no voids in the bullet. It would also give me a perfect nose and a perfect base, as opposed to a mold that would force me to choose between the two.

I was going to try the cup base because it is supposed to mitigate feathering.

In the end, I suppose the rifle will tell me what it likes, regardless of any theories I might have.

[Lead pot]

Sorry my error on the caliber. I missed that post.
I don't know how familiar you are with the M swage dies (I think Dave is calling them the Pro Swage now) but for a large rifle caliber your going to be at a limit on the alloy hardness, even then you will have to use that loading press at the bottom of the lever stroke to get enough force forming the bullet properly unless you put a cheater on the press handle :D
I started swaging using the Hemp dies and a Pacific loading press basically the same as a Rock Chucker and I had to make several short strokes on the bottom and screw the die down after every stroke till the bullet was formed. I ended switching to the Herters press.
I still have some dies C&H but they are pistol dies.
I pretty much quit swaging because now days you can get good moulds that will cast a bullet of good quality once you learn how to get a good bullet drop from the mould.

Enjoy your coming trip with the Shiloh. It's a good rifle to start with, just don't get discouraged on that trip.

[M-Tecs]

Corbin tells me that their die for rockchuckers will be perfectly sufficient for what I'm trying to do. They're about $280. They offer a design with a 1.5e ogive. They also said that a dual-diameter wouldn't be a problem.

I planned to go with swaging because it would give me better uniformity and ensure that there are no voids in the bullet. It would also give me a perfect nose and a perfect base, as opposed to a mold that would force me to choose between the two.

I was going to try the cup base because it is supposed to mitigate feathering.



I know very little about swaging. I was not aware that I could get into it for that low of cost. I am going to have to look into it more. I have a bunch of molds but nothing sized for paper patching. I am planning to switch to PP so the timing for a swaging die is good.

Will a standard swaging setup handle 16-1 alloy?

I have my own machine shop so I can build whatever I want but for the first one I most likely purchase and copy.

[Thundermaker]

I know very little about swaging. I was not aware that I could get into it for that low of cost. I am going to have to look into it more. I have a bunch of molds but nothing sized for paper patching. I am planning to switch to PP so the timing for a swaging die is good.

Will a standard swaging setup handle 16-1 alloy?

I have my own machine shop so I can build whatever I want but for the first one I most likely purchase and copy.

I don't know about the alloy. That's a question I'm going to ask corbin.

[M-Tecs]

I don't know how familiar you are with the M swage dies (I think Dave is calling them the Pro Swage now) but for a large rifle caliber your going to be at a limit on the alloy hardness, even then you will have to use that loading press at the bottom of the lever stroke to get enough force forming the bullet properly unless you put a cheater on the press handle :D
I started swaging using the Hemp dies and a Pacific loading press basically the same as a Rock Chucker and I had to make several short strokes on the bottom and screw the die down after every stroke till the bullet was formed. I ended switching to the Herters press.
I still have some dies C&H but they are pistol dies.
I pretty much quit swaging because now days you can get good moulds that will cast a bullet of good quality once you learn how to get a good bullet drop from the mould.



I was typing and missed your reply. Sounds like for most of the alloys that I would want to use hydraulics would be required. If that's the case that's a deeper rabbit hole than I want to go down at this point.

[Lead pot]

I was typing and missed your reply. Sounds like for most of the alloys that I would want to use hydraulics would be required. If that's the case that's a deeper rabbit hole than I want to go down at this point.

No you don't need the Hydraulic equipment but I would not go with less than the S equipment. Better yet look for the press and dies that Richard Corbin made. The Walnut Hill press and his 7/8X14 dies are very good. I swage 1/16 and alloys with antimony in the mix using Richards equipment.
I blew a die with 1/14 alloy using the CSP-! S dies from Dave Corbin.
I understand that he made some changes but I know nothing about this. I used the CSP-1-S equipment before changing to the Walnut Hill.

[Rockindaddy]

I have a pile of new 45-90 brass. Could spare 50 rounds to get you started!
Charlie 724 321-2031

[firefly1957]

OH NO I just bought a used but in good shape Armi rifle in .54 percussion I see your comment on Quality did I goof!

I have a Sharps Shiloh I ordered in 1985 I do not know how it stacks against todays rifles . I ordered it in 50-140 (50-3 1/4" ) 34" #1 taper it is a lot more accurate then I am.
Get the best sights if you want to shoot a mile do you plan on scoping it?
I have heard all the comments and whining between 50 & 45 Caliber I went with the 50 because I read to much Elmer Keith ....

[Thundermaker]

Not planning on scoping it just yet. I don't know of a mount that would allow enough elevation. Depending on how I like my first shiloh, it may not be the last. We'll see.

[firefly1957]

Sometimes I wish I would have got mine in 45-70 but the 50 is a neat round .

[Thundermaker]

I went with a .45-100.

[Thundermaker]

309056

Dual diameter PP mould from BACO. 545gr .453 diameter at the base.

I didn't know they cast you an example bullet and put it in the box.

545gr is just a gnat hair from 1.25oz ! I can't wait to cast a few and get them loaded. I'm genuinely excited about this project, like a kid at Christmas. If I do manage to hit that steel, this bullet is going to womp it good.

I was a little worried that my fat fingers wouldn't be able to wrap them, but, now that I see how massive they actually are, I don't think it'll be an issue.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

309056

Dual diameter PP mould from BACO. 545gr .453 diameter at the base.

I didn't know they cast you an example bullet and put it in the box.

545gr is just a gnat hair from 1.25oz ! I can't wait to cast a few and get them loaded. I'm genuinely excited about this project, like a kid at Christmas. If I do manage to hit that steel, this bullet is going to womp it good.

I was a little worried that my fat fingers wouldn't be able to wrap them, but, now that I see how massive they actually are, I don't think it'll be an issue.

You may find that bullet at .453 on the base difficult to fit in a case without expanding it, after wrapping it. There is only one paper that will work with that size of bullet the Seth Cole 55Y. .452 is a bit snug in my fire formed brass with Seth Cole 55W paper wet wrapped. That bullet was designed specifically for a Shiloh Chamber btw.

Kenny Wasserburger 309106309106

[dirtball]

Just curious, is the rifle Mr. Goodman has coming a standard 18 twist? That DDPP bullet is 1.46 long I believe, that is going to be right on the edge with an 18 twist even in a 45-100? Or am I wrong?

Dave

[Thundermaker]

Just curious, is the rifle Mr. Goodman has coming a standard 18 twist? That DDPP bullet is 1.46 long I believe, that is going to be right on the edge with an 18 twist even in a 45-100? Or am I wrong?

Dave

Well, I called up Steve Brooks to see about a custom mold, since BACO offers every diameter except the one I need. That was a question I asked him. He said I could actually go even heavier if I wanted.

[Gunlaker]

BACO will customize any of their molds diameters. From what I remember, I paid an extra $10 for that service.

Chris.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Just curious, is the rifle Mr. Goodman has coming a standard 18 twist? That DDPP bullet is 1.46 long I believe, that is going to be right on the edge with an 18 twist even in a 45-100? Or am I wrong?

Dave

Dave you are correct, the bullet was designed for a Shiloh Chamber with a 16-1 twist in 45-110. I know as Myself with help from Jim Kluskins and Arnie designed that bullet for My 25# Shiloh.

It has shot very well in my rifle to date winning top Scope At Alliance Neb the past 2 years in a row and 1000 yards at my match past 2 years in a row 2nd overall in Creedmoor and 1 mile past couple years.

Kenny W.

[Gunlaker]

Kenny now that you've been using that one a while I'm curious. Do you like it more than a straight bore diameter bullet?

Chris.

[Thundermaker]

Dave you are correct, the bullet was designed for a Shiloh Chamber with a 16-1 twist in 45-110. I know as Myself with help from Jim Kluskins and Arnie designed that bullet for My 25# Shiloh.

It has shot very well in my rifle to date winning top Scope At Alliance Neb the past 2 years in a row and 1000 yards at my match past 2 years in a row 2nd overall in Creedmoor and 1 mile past couple years.

Kenny W.

Well, being that the specified paper is readily available and not awfully expensive, I guess I'll just proceed with the mold.

Any particular reason why you chose to design it for that paper? I suppose the thinner the paper, the more likely it will dissentigrate off at the muzzle.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Well, being that the specified paper is readily available and not awfully expensive, I guess I'll just proceed with the mold.

Any particular reason why you chose to design it for that paper? I suppose the thinner the paper, the more likely it will dissentigrate off at the muzzle.

Thin paper that’s not thicker than Groove diameter depth results in perfect confetti at the muzzle. Fat bullets and thin paper, equal best accuracy in my opinion.

Chris it’s a great bullet in my 110 with the 16-1 twist. It’s probably too long for a 18-1 twist to realize best accuracy at long range. I don’t know if it’s any better than a standard Bore rider PP though. I need to recover some of them at my mile target and see what they look like.

Kenny W.

[Gunlaker]

Thanks Kenny.

Chris.