Uberti 1861 Cylinder Issue

[Karasu]

Hi all,

My Uberti 1861 saga continues. It turns out that it’s very accurate and shoots DEAD ON. Do you all know if all the Uberti 1861’s shoot this way these days? Apart from that nice surprise, I find that 1-2 of the chambers release the ball after I’ve loaded all 6 chambers. I’ve been loading 20 gr of BP, a wad, and either a .375 or .380 round ball (either shaves a lead ring).What happens is that in 1-2 or the chambers, the plunger pulls the ball out and I have to push it back in with a dowel. There’s also an audible difference in the report ; 1-2 of the chambers sound like more of a “puff”. Anyone had this issue?

It’s currently being looked at over at Taylor’s, but they claim there’s nothing wrong with it.

K

[Battis]

Does it happen with just the .375 ball?

[Karasu]

Actually no, it’s happens with .375, .376, and .380.

[Battis]

For the heck of it, drop the load down to 18 grs without the wad, and grease/lube over the ball.
Do you cast the roundballs or buy them?

[Karasu]

I just buy them.

[Castaway]

Is it the same two cylinders always or random? If it’s the same two, it points to oversized cylinders. If random, you’re deforming the ball with pressure from your loading lever and pinching it to the point it grabs the ball and pulls back. If random, try just seating snugly and avoid too much pressure. Loading the ball directly over the powder and lubing the top of the ball with Crisco or some other lube does nothing but make the pistol greasy after you fire the first round. Doing this can invite a chain fire by creating a powder train.

[Karasu]

It’s always the same two chambers unfortunately.

[LST-1185]

I had a Uberti dragoon that the plunger would pull the ball back out of the chambers after ramming. I used a dremel tool with a round grinder and lightly polished the end of the plunger to remove any burrs. That solve the problem. As for accuracy all of my revolvers, out of the box, shoot differently.

[Gtek]

My next step would be introducing Mr. Cylinder to the pin gauge family.

[indian joe]

Is it the same two cylinders always or random? If it’s the same two, it points to oversized cylinders. If random, you’re deforming the ball with pressure from your loading lever and pinching it to the point it grabs the ball and pulls back. If random, try just seating snugly and avoid too much pressure.

Loading the ball directly over the powder and lubing the top of the ball with Crisco or some other lube does nothing but make the pistol greasy after you fire the first round.
Wow ! there must be at least a million shooters doing this the wrong way

Doing this can invite a chain fire by creating a powder train.
How on earth can grease over the ball "invite a chain fire by creating a powder trail"
please explain??????

[Battis]

Exactly what I was wondering. Damn, I've been doing it all wrong for a long, long time.

To the OP:
try 18 gr FFFG (or less) with no lube, no wad, nothing, just to see if the balls set without pulling out.

[Castaway]

The idea is that follow-on loads make the cylinder greasy to the point that when charged again, the powder can cling to the chamber walls. If the ball is loose as described by OP a powder train can be set by the grease not letting the powder to be freely swiped to the powder column and can be more easily ignited.

http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps1Mobile.html

[Battis]

The old "what causes a chain fire" discussion. I've had two, each caused by a defective mold that produced irregularly shaped roundballs. My suggestion to the OP was to reduce the powder charge with no wad/grease and see if the ball seats further down, negating the suction caused by retracting the seater/plunger. If the balls still pull out, there's a chamber problem, as suggested. Simple test.

[Battis]

For what it's worth (from the linked article):
"Load a cylinder the conventional way with lots of Crisco on top of the bullets so that the cylinder is sticky with the stuff and then fire your pistol. For safety, on the next loading, load no more than two or three chambers with powder, but be extra sloppy and get some grains on top of the cylinder and don't use revolver wads. Ram down the bullets without brushing anything off, then plaster on the Crisco as you normally would. Hold on tightly to the grip and then fire the pistol. Hold on tightly to the pistol because I can almost guarantee you that at least one or both adjacent chambers will also go off."

That's what you're basing the "no Crisco over a chamber" on? Other than as an "experiment", what kind of idiot would load a cap and ball like that - extra sloppy, sticky, etc.

[indian joe]

The idea is that follow-on loads make the cylinder greasy to the point that when charged again, the powder can cling to the chamber walls. If the ball is loose as described by OP a powder train can be set by the grease not letting the powder to be freely swiped to the powder column and can be more easily ignited.

http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps1Mobile.html

Dunno what kind of grease hes usin there ? I use boolit lube - my fresh shot cylinder is dry and black - no grease trail down in there.

OP says his .380 ball is shaving a lead ring ? if not and its a loose fit - stop right there ! something is not right ! fix it !! If this was happening random then maybe its loading technique or odd shaped balls - but same two chambers each time ? Gtek says pin gauge - I second that - but the dealer wont own any fault until you make him

Our house has had six capguns - still four in use - none of em did this ball sucking thing

[Castaway]

My goodness, I hit a touchy spot! To answer you question what kind of idiot would….? The world is full of them. I only submitted a different view. Since I read the article 5 years ago, I’ve followed his technique and have avoided any chain-fires. I use a Gato Feo soaked wool wad between the powder and ball. Balls shave a ring when seated. The primary thing to prevent a chain fire is ball chamber fit. Other techniques only help the odds. I propose you do it your way, I’ll do it mine and I won’t get personal in disagreeing

[HWooldridge]

If the two chambers can be proven to be overly large (using pins or a bore mic) then bringing the other four to a similar size, followed by an increase in ball size is the solution. In addition, the chambers could certainly be out of round, which should also be corrected. You might wind up having to use a .390-.395 ball when it’s all said and done.

[Battis]

When I said, "What kind of idiot would load a cap and ball like that," I was referring to the test that the article writer conducted. Of course, if you load the gun with grease and sprinkle BP over it and don't clean anything, you'll have problems. That test was exaggerated and therefor useless (unless the shooter is an idiot and loads like that all the time). I totally agree that chamber fit is the key to prevent chain fires. I only suggested no grease or wads to the OP to see if the ball seats far enough. If you loaded (for example) 22 gr or more, it won't sit deep enough and will probably pull out of the chamber.
This is my lube method: I mix up lube with beeswax and paraffin, block the muzzle of the removed barrel, let it cool and push it out. Now I have lube sticks that are the exact size of the bore. I cut them at home or bring them to the range and cut as needed. They can go over or under the ball - I usually put them over.

[HWooldridge]

When I said, "What kind of idiot would load a cap and ball like that," I was referring to the test that the article writer conducted. Of course, if you load the gun with grease and sprinkle BP over it and don't clean anything, you'll have problems. That test was exaggerated and therefor useless (unless the shooter is an idiot and loads like that all the time). I totally agree that chamber fit is the key to prevent chain fires. I only suggested no grease or wads to the OP to see if the ball seats far enough. If you loaded (for example) 22 gr or more, it won't sit deep enough and will probably pull out of the chamber.
This is my lube method: I mix up lube with beeswax and paraffin, block the muzzle of the removed barrel, let it cool and push it out. Now I have lube sticks that are the exact size of the bore. I cut them at home or bring them to the range and cut as needed. They can go over or under the ball - I usually put them over.

That’s a pretty cute idea - did you invent that one? I’m filing it away for reference.

[Battis]

I had too much time on my hands several years ago. C&B shooters used to make round punches and punch lube pills out of lube sheets but that seemed like alot of wasted lube. There's no waste with these, and you can cut the pills as needed.
I also use the vegetable spray PAM (or a cheap version) and spray a little over the loaded chambers, with the idea that after the first shot, the pills are melted anyways. Also, PAM sprayed on the cylinder pins, especially Remingtons and Patersons, keeps the cylinders turning longer. But - WARNING - you must completely strip and clean the revolvers after using PAM on the pins or it was get sticky and hard. I also spray it down the barrels in muzzle loaders, and even in rifles like my Maynard, Trapdoors, etc.
Just keep it out of the innards if you can.