Contender barrel problem....

[Bored1]

I have an early 5 digit serial contender that came with a 44 magnum hotshot barrel. The hotshot octagon barrel works fine, opening and closing easily.

I just picked up a super 14 in 7tcu that will not open on the frame without removing the hinge pinand coercing with much frustration and cussing.

The 44 mag barrel has a one piece bolt and the 7tcu has a 2 piece locking bolt/lug. I've been looking all over and can't seem to find a solution.

Multiple sites say to "stone" the locking bolts/ lugs, however the older posts no longer have working pictures. It also appears like there are no longer any one piece locking bolts/lugs to be bought to switch out with the two piece that isn't working on this frame.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Also not sure what "stone" to use or where to apply?

[bosterr]

The common solution seems the be to coat the undersize of the 2 piece locking bolt halves with felt tip pen and determine which half is making the most contact with the "shelf" in the frame and carefully stone that half until the problem is solved. I described this fix to a friend not long ago and it worked like a charm. Do NOT stone the top surface of the bolt halves and change those angles.

[Bored1]

What type of stone do you use?

And if I read that right, you only work on the bottom of the lugs/bolts?

[racepres]

I have had Few issues with the 2 piece lock... usually it is the 1 piece that gave problems..Back in the good old days, I simply contacted TC and they shipped a locking lug..(2 piece) Free.
I have changed locks numerous times for various reasons, only a Couple of Times for Hard Unlock..
The Dogbones may be the Problem for you...as that is what the Cam on the triggerguard pushes on to Unlock... check condition... these may need replaced...certainly if Undersized!!
Oh... Ensure that the Trigger Guard is able to travel the Full length of the "grooves" in the frame... sometimes something...like grips, can limit travel..

I have yet to need to Stone..vs replace.

[bosterr]

Yes. Stone the underside only that shows the most contact. Do you have a hard arkansas stone you sharpen your knives with? 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a piece of glass may work. Take it slow!

[Bored1]

I don't have a arkansas stone. Usually just use one of the drag thru sharpeners that came with a fillet knife or something at some point. I will have to see about picking one up.
Just switched to working overnights so hours are all backwards. Hoping to get this contender sorted out sooner rather than later, one good thing about working nights now is it will open up much more time for things like this and range time!

[Geezer in NH]

Gunsmith time IMHO unless you ruin it before.

[Bored1]

And the saga continues.

Picked up a stone this afternoon, seems too big to be able to use for this purpose once I got the two piece bolt out. So I got to thinking which can get me into trouble...

So I don't get confused I am going to call the original 44 hotshot barrel "barrel a" and the new to me super 14 7tcu "barrel b". Anyways, I get the bolts (2 piece), dog bone roller, spring, and pin out of barrel b and have the brilliant idea to just swap everything with barrel a since that opens and closes fine on my frame. We'll that didn't work. Barrel B with all of barrel a parts still locks on the frame. Barrel a with all of barrel b parts almost locks on frame, then decides it will just be extremely hard opening. So barrel a went from working perfectly to barely working and barrel b remains unworking at this point.

I don't think it matters but barrel a uses a set screw to hold the spring and parts in place under pressure, and barrel b uses a roll pin.

I absolutely have to be missing something.

[bosterr]

Sorry, I've been hunting these last few days and haven't kept up with this. I'll be talking to my friend who had the same problem as you and I'll be talking to him today. Hopefully I'll be able to get back sooner than later.

[35isit]

Without pictures my guess is he has non updated frame. Two piece lugs were used on updated frames that allowed one lug to move slightly before the other. With his frame they both are trying to move at same time. Learned all this the hard way (broke a couple frames). I think SSK will do a update. I strongly recommend if they will that you consider. No parts are available for the older frames at all.

[racepres]

Without pictures my guess is he has non updated frame. Two piece lugs were used on updated frames that allowed one lug to move slightly before the other. With his frame they both are trying to move at same time. Learned all this the hard way (broke a couple frames). I think SSK will do a update. I strongly recommend if they will that you consider. No parts are available for the older frames at all.
Yet... I have more than One old low serial number...unmodified frames.. some barrels, work just fine with dual lugs...some work best with the old single lug!


I have had Few issues with the 2 piece lock... usually it is the 1 piece that gave problems..Back in the good old days, I simply contacted TC and they shipped a locking lug..(2 piece) Free.
I have changed locks numerous times for various reasons, only a Couple of Times for Hard Unlock..
The Dogbones may be the Problem for you...as that is what the Cam on the triggerguard pushes on to Unlock... check condition... these may need replaced...certainly if Undersized!!
Oh... Ensure that the Trigger Guard is able to travel the Full length of the "grooves" in the frame... sometimes something...like grips, can limit travel..

I have yet to need to Stone..vs replace.

Having more than one set of lugs and dog bones (bar bell) gets me where I need to Be..
One other check tho...Headspace.. too tight can be really bad...
Always troubleshoot Barrel Fit without Grips nor Forend!!!
Good Luck...and Patience!!!

@Bored1
Edit; has this barrel been tried on another frame?? Apologies, if this has been addressed...

[Tonto]

Long ago I bought a square ceramic stone from Brownells for just such a project. A little oil and a few careful passes and it was done. I see that stone/file in the box and smile as it was my first Brownells purchase.

[Bored1]

I have not had an opportunity to try the barrel on another frame since I only have the one. It is an unmodified original not easy open. I've tried the new bolts from ssk with the roller dog bone part integrated into the bolts and that's a no go. I managed to get ahold of 2 new sets of bolts from TC however they look basically the same as the ssk ones except they are black and not silver. I've tried stoning the locks that were in the barrel but it doesn't appear to be making any difference at all.

[screwcutter]

I had the same problem, compare the barrel lug dimensions. The newer barrel lugs are thicker(not locking lugs)and bind on the bottom.

[racepres]

I have not had an opportunity to try the barrel on another frame since I only have the one. It is an unmodified original not easy open. I've tried the new bolts from ssk with the roller dog bone part integrated into the bolts and that's a no go. I managed to get ahold of 2 new sets of bolts from TC however they look basically the same as the ssk ones except they are black and not silver. I've tried stoning the locks that were in the barrel but it doesn't appear to be making any difference at all.

Look again, at the Dog bones Diameter, and the "Cams" on the trigger guard that unlatch by purchasing against the Dog bone..
Simple mechanics make this work...
You are fitting and trying this without grips nor forend...Right??
I have 2 early frames that fit all of my barrels, not that many but some!!

Sure wish this barrel was test fitted on a different frame

[racepres]

I had the same problem, compare the barrel lug dimensions. The newer barrel lugs are thicker(not locking lugs)and bind on the bottom.
Hmmm, Never even considered that part of the equation!!
Interesting... you think the lug is too fat to fit from Locking lugs to "table" ???

[jules]

You sure it's not a non easy open frame? The longer barrel and added weight will be even harder to open I would think. And also the Lug or the locking bolts.

[screwcutter]

308056
My 44 mag hotshot on bottom, new barrel on top. .100” lug difference.

[Bored1]

I am trying to get everything to work without a forend and no grip installed. It's definitely not an easy open frame, the pivot point is in front of the trigger guard.

Screwcutter- wider from left to right? Of top of the barrel to bottom of lug? Were you able to get it working or just using a different framework for that barrel?

Also struck out with Bellm TC- he said he doesn't advise spending money or time on it and to try and track down a g2 frame.

SSK said "there's not much to be done with the originals".

[screwcutter]

Yes taller as in top to bottom, the trigger guard release hits the lug and doesn’t release the locking bolts. I ground clearance on the trigger guard, no more than it took it probably could be taken off the lug.
If this is your trouble you should be able to see it with your barrels side by side. Sorry my photo isn’t that great.

[racepres]

Yes taller as in top to bottom, the trigger guard release hits the lug and doesn’t release the locking bolts. I ground clearance on the trigger guard, no more than it took it probably could be taken off the lug.
If this is your trouble you should be able to see it with your barrels side by side. Sorry my photo isn’t that great.

How very interesting...Just How New is "new" meaning Not original TC made??
I will investigate this on Mine (also Old Style) later today.. tho all of My Barrels are TC made.. Don't know when the "new kids" took over.

[jules]

I am trying to get everything to work without a forend and no grip installed. It's definitely not an easy open frame, the pivot point is in front of the trigger guard.

Screwcutter- wider from left to right? Of top of the barrel to bottom of lug? Were you able to get it working or just using a different framework for that barrel?

Also struck out with Bellm TC- he said he doesn't advise spending money or time on it and to try and track down a g2 frame.

SSK said "there's not much to be done with the originals".

When they were still in operation I thought TC use to convert the older frames to easy open?

[racepres]

When they were still in operation I thought TC use to convert the older frames to easy open?

Yes Indeed they did...I never felt the need personally. Kinda like the Ruger retrofit of the hammer block, or whatever they called it... Again Not something I need, nor require.. But... Rather than Update Computer operating systems all the Darn time...I went Linux and continue Marching in Place!!! Call Me Odd...My Newest Harley is a 1994, Favorite ... a toss up '74 or '84!!!!!

[Bored1]

308158

308157

308159

[Bored1]

So the lug is larger on the 357 herrett barrel compared to the 44 hotshot barrel from top to bottom, and the super 14" 7tcu is taller than the 357 herrett.

So I don't think the bolts are my only issue here. Not sure how to go about getting them all to play well together.

I did contact S&W/TC, SSK, and Bellm TC all again, and no joy with any of them. No gunsmithing or fitting services available to address this. Hoping to find a knowledgeable gunsmith who is willing to take a look a d see if they can make it work.

[Bored1]

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308243

So it's not the locking bolts at all. The actually barrel lugs are different sizes. I don't have a working battery for my caliper currently so can't really get an exact measurement. But with the bolts removed and the barrel butted up to each other you can see the hotshot barrel lug is definitely shorter than the other 2 barrels. The 357 herret barrel with the scope mount is in between the heights of the hotshot barrel and the 7mm tcu super 14.

So it appears either remove material from the bottom of the barrel lugs or the top of the flat piece that makes the top part of the trigger guard, if that makes sense. I'm not mechanically inclined enough really to do either with any confidence.

On a side note, I tried the bolts from the super 14 7tcu install on the hotshot barrel and of course they work fine even with my "polishing".

Is there additional clearance on easy open frames for the taller barrel lugs or would I need a G2 frame?

[racepres]

????? I just don't "get it" the "lug" at that point (of the locking Lugs) is No Where near anything in the Frame, that could obstruct it.
May be some rub marks on the inside front of the trigger guard...maybe..
Back to basics... Is there a rub spot on the barrel lug at the most forward bottom?? may correspond to the Spot at forward most top side of Triggerguard?? Talking rubbing at the very front at the root of the 45 degree cut at front of barrel lug?? Only place I see that can touch frame to Lug..
Try this... maybe... Remove trigger guard ..try lock up...even look from bottom.. Simple matter to reinstall trigger guard to Unlock.. BTDT to "check" lug engagement!!!

I sure hope your barrels have a Star or a "cross" that TC put on them...other, less meticulous Mfg????

[No_1]

I have run into this a few times. A gentleman who has been shooting contenders since the late 60’s gave me the following advice which I have used multiple times with success.

1) Remove the locking lugs and coil spring from the barrel lug.
2) Using a fine stone polish any part of the locking lug(s) that rub against each other as well as the areas of the locking lug(s) that ride inside of the barrel lug.
3) Clip one coil from the coil spring.
4) Lightly Lube the area of the locking lugs which rides inside the barrel lug as well as the coil spring.
5) Reassemble and test.

He indicated it was ok to lightly polish the area of the lug(s) that interact with the frame as long as no material is removed from that area.

[racepres]

Now... I got wayyy off on this... but Unlocking!!! No.1 gots it...
I have developed such bad Arthritis that I can No Longer always squeeze the Guard.. I grip it like I used to back when new.. then rap my Knuckles on my Knee...opens every rap after a whole bunch of repititions... all mine open much easier.. Kinda like Dry Firing!!!


I have run into this a few times. A gentleman who has been shooting contenders since the late 60’s gave me the following advice which I have used multiple times with success.

1) Remove the locking lugs and coil spring from the barrel lug.
2) Using a fine stone polish any part of the locking lug(s) that rub against each other as well as the areas of the locking lug(s) that ride inside of the barrel lug.
3) Clip one coil from the coil spring.
4) Lightly Lube the area of the locking lugs which rides inside the barrel lug as well as the coil spring.
5) Reassemble and test.

He indicated it was ok to lightly polish the area of the lug(s) that interact with the frame as long as no material is removed from that area.
Good advice, certainly. But..If the barrel won't lock, Not gonna Help probably!
Not that difficult to remove trigger guard an Look!!!!

Edit; Just went and Did my early sn76xxx, unmodified Frame and a Random barrel.. Happened to be 7-TCU, so Newer than that Frame Certainly!!!
Remove Trigger guard.. pin barrel and Close... will it Latch?? Look from underneath, can it be discerned what is holding up the Show???
Certainly look at the firing pin bushing...If it is loose and moved out Proud... she Won't lock!!!
Ensure that the Rotating interlock is pushed to 90 degrees by the Locking Lug(s)..assuming it Latched...
I simply dropped the Trigger guard back in and Pinned it, to Open!!
Let us Know... Oh...and this exercise will show that the depth you are concerned with...is Probably Not a Factor...

[Bored1]

Racepress- the barrel latches to the frame well. Too well I guess is the problem. Once the super 14 7tcu barrel is closed, it won't open for love or money. I have to remove the hinge pin and jiggle everything until it comes loose. I will try to remove the trigger guard and look and see what's happening, I guess I didn't realize you could remove it and close everything.

No 1- I will also try everything you suggested. I didn't think of polishing the other parts of the locking bolts. I've tried the internal parts from the hotshot barrel installed in the 7tcu and it didn't make a difference so I figured it wasn't the bolt but won't hurt anything to try! I'm open to pretty much anything that I can actually try within my limited mechanical knowledge/ability.

[racepres]

Racepress- the barrel latches to the frame well. Too well I guess is the problem. Once the super 14 7tcu barrel is closed, it won't open for love or money. I have to remove the hinge pin and jiggle everything until it comes loose. I will try to remove the trigger guard and look and see what's happening, I guess I didn't realize you could remove it and close everything.

No 1- I will also try everything you suggested. I didn't think of polishing the other parts of the locking bolts. I've tried the internal parts from the hotshot barrel installed in the 7tcu and it didn't make a difference so I figured it wasn't the bolt but won't hurt anything to try! I'm open to pretty much anything that I can actually try within my limited mechanical knowledge/ability.
So, Maybe the Latch slot in the Barrel is "sticky"... Not smooth...
By All Means...if squeezing trigger guard ain't working...Rap them knuckles on yer Knee...Or maybe more delicate to slap the Knuckles with yer Off-Hand!!!! Probably the Number One reason folks went to "easy open"., All it did was move the pivot pin for More Leverage.. don't really change the force applied to the Parts!!!

[Bored1]

The hitting my fingers on the trigger guard was working about half the time with the 357 herret barrel, however would never work with the 7tcu barrel. With the 7tcu super 14 barrel I slapped my hand with the other hand and my knee until my hand hurt and needed to stop for awhile. Tried that method repeatedly over and over and still it won't work.

Removed the trigger guard and closed the barrel and can't see what the problem is. However, now with the triggerguard replaced, the 357 herret barrel wont shut easily like it would before and the 7tcu barrel will still not come off without removing the hinge pin.

I did try cutting off one coil of the spring and polishing the parts of the locking bolts that touch inside the barrel lug, doesn't seem to have changed anything.

[Kylongrifle32]

Try removing the extractor. Then mount the barrel and try with an empty chamber. I had a small piece of lead get in between the barrel notch and extractor on a 22 LR barrel one day and gave me all kinds of fits.
Have you checked the barrel to frame clearance. Not sure of the exact spec but a . 001 feeler gage should slide in between them.

[screwcutter]

308279

The top forks (red) unlock when the trigger guard is squeezed to open. If the top of the trigger guard hits the bottom of the barrel lug, it can’t travel far enough to unlock. This was the case with mine.

[racepres]

Try removing the extractor. Then mount the barrel and try with an empty chamber. I had a small piece of lead get in between the barrel notch and extractor on a 22 LR barrel one day and gave me all kinds of fits.
Have you checked the barrel to frame clearance. Not sure of the exact spec but a . 001 feeler gage should slide in between them.
More good stuff... lucky I never had that!!
I took a minute to check the locking bolts on a couple... The Part that slides under the "shelf" to lock..seem to be engineered at ~ .125
(tough to get a Micrometer just so on that locking portion..) most one piece measure at least .001 less than that..while most two piece are right at .125...yet...one Brannny spinnin (unused) two piece is Thicker... like .127.. Prolly Why it is Not on one of my Barrels!!
This is probably a Very critical place... but...if too thick, or too rough...gonna be very difficult to unlock.
When looking from the bottom, on different Barrels, look closely at the Interlock (rotating "winged" lookin piece), which Must be 90 degrees, as rotated by locking lugs being "locked".. if the Locking lug is Not going completely extended to lock up... Im thinking the Locking lug is Simply too thick!!
I have to go right back to...Do these barrels act the same on a Different Frame??
Sure wish you were close to me...this is Challenging...and may require more than a couple Frames, and Barrel locking lugs!!

[racepres]

308279

The top forks (red) unlock when the trigger guard is squeezed to open. If the top of the trigger guard hits the bottom of the barrel lug, it can’t travel far enough to unlock. This was the case with mine.
Don't look at all like mine... old style hard open type...Where is the pivot hole on that example??
Yes those Ramps push the Barbell part of the Lug to unlatch.. I cannot envision any other part of the Barrel contacting those...On Mine anyway..
Of course...I will take apart again to Look!!!!

Edit; OK I see what you are saying... but... I do Not see that possibility on an Old style..
I placed the Triggerguard (removed) against the bottom extension at the Barbell, on three different era barrels (stepped extension, split lock, stepped extension one piece lock, straight extension solid lock) all barbells hit the Unlocking cam of the triggerguard exactly in the same place...at the root of the "triangle"..
since i do Not know what triggerguard the one shown is... i am having a hard time figgering out just How it caused a Problem... I need to get a newer one I guess!!! I will inform the Bitter Half!!! Stay tuned!!!

[racepres]

Bored 1
I am about to the point of having you "sacrifice" a locking bolt!!
Trying to keep the locking surface as Flat as humanly possible (no back-cut) I would grab a Whetstone and Have at it... measure as close as ya can with a Mic (maybe a really good Caliper) take like .0005, at a time... Gonna Take awhile me bets!!
Stone, measure,test, repeat, ... gonna need a Zipper on that "pin", and yer thumb gonna get calloused... But!!!
Once it gets to Working... precise measurements together with some Dykem blue (nah...I use a Sharpie) maybe worthwhile to sacrifice a Locking bolt!!!

[Bored1]

Racepres- I've tried that, I ground that thing until I was scared it was ruined. That lockingbolt set still works with the 44 mag hotshot barrel so didn't actually sacrifice it as I thought I was going to. It looks like I may have access to a easy open frame this weekend to try these two barrels on and see what the deal is possibly if I can figure it out. This has been the most frustrating thing I've done in awhile.

Consolation prize was taking the 44 hot shot barrel to the indoor range and making sure it still worked. My wife really liked it, so there's that!

[screwcutter]

308282308283
These are of my 5 digit set unmodified trigger guard. In the close up you can see where a taller barrel lug is hitting the trigger guard. This is where I ground the clearance.

[racepres]

308282308283
These are of my 5 digit set unmodified trigger guard. In the close up you can see where a taller barrel lug is hitting the trigger guard. This is where I ground the clearance.
Checked mine...Never had nothin like it... Are these all Old TC original Barrels??? or newer "stuff"??? Just curious..
BTW what is the Guard in the first Pic??? (post#34)


Racepres- I've tried that, I ground that thing until I was scared it was ruined. That lockingbolt set still works with the 44 mag hotshot barrel so didn't actually sacrifice it as I thought I was going to. It looks like I may have access to a easy open frame this weekend to try these two barrels on and see what the deal is possibly if I can figure it out. This has been the most frustrating thing I've done in awhile.

Consolation prize was taking the 44 hot shot barrel to the indoor range and making sure it still worked. My wife really liked it, so there's that!
If it still locks properly on your old Barrel... it ain't sacrificed.. If it don't work on an Easy open frame??? Sacrifice it some more...After you make sure your HotShot has a workable Locking lug!!!
BTW if you can try an easy open type frame ...check "effort" to unlock various Barrels.. certainly see if your HotShot locks properly...and compare unlocking effort of the two frames.
I have a Locking lug set here that Looks worn down badly... but when measured...it is Still taller than an old single piece I use.. Also... it locks just the very slightest bit "taller" when viewed from bottom (trigger Guard removed)

[screwcutter]

All barrels TC manufactured, all early 90s & earlier.

[Bored1]

The hotshot barrel works fine right now with the original one piece lug back on it. The two piece that I grinded quite a bit (at least I thought I had go too far) works fine on the hotshot. Can't get it to work with the 7tcu barrel it came on.

Going to look and see if it had the worn spots screw press suggested, not sure what else to look at.

Easy open frame should be available for me to try the barrels on this weekend.

[racepres]

All barrels TC manufactured, all early 90s & earlier.
and that trigger guard, in post 34???


The hotshot barrel works fine right now with the original one piece lug back on it. The two piece that I grinded quite a bit (at least I thought I had go too far) works fine on the hotshot. Can't get it to work with the 7tcu barrel it came on.

Going to look and see if it had the worn spots screw press suggested, not sure what else to look at.

Easy open frame should be available for me to try the barrels on this weekend.
I wish you much luck.. stay at this...
Keep working on that sacrificial Lug... it may yet reveal some Hint!!! May as well leave it with the TCU barrel at this point!!
Intriguing.. yes

Just occurred to me... that rimless extractor on the TCU barrel.... Does it push all the way in???? I would be tempted to close that barrel with the Extractor removed... they must be fitted correctly..or..of course, give problems.... Grabbing at Straws Now!!!!

[screwcutter]

and that trigger guard, in post 34???

From the web, easier than taking one apart.
The other 2 pic are out of mine to show the markings.
I have a mix match of new & used barrels, my problem
barrel started out on this frame.
I polished, fit and refit locking lugs replaced, before I figured
it out.

[racepres]

and that trigger guard, in post 34???

From the web, easier than taking one apart.
The other 2 pic are out of mine to show the markings.
I have a mix match of new & used barrels, my problem
barrel started out on this frame.
I polished, fit and refit locking lugs replaced, before I figured
it out.
Still having a hard time envisioning the extension contacting the trigger guard.. is it possible the screw holding tension on triggerguard spring was too Short???
With Triggerguard removed, I place it in position against barrel lug... on None of mine, is the "ramps" even at the polished portion...they sit all the way down at the root, unused part of the Ramp when assembled, unless the screw was shorter.. which at some point would prevent any Lockup.