Winchester closing its doors no more 94's [Archive]

jh45gun

01-17-2006, 04:42 PM

It a sad thing Yep its true just got off the phone with them as of March 31 2006 the CT plant will be closing their doors and no more 94's or 70's or 1300's Hopefully some one will buy them and the machinery and get licensed from Olin to use the name and continue on. I hope so. Jim

Found this news blurb on a other site:

U.S. Repeating Arms announces plans to close Winchester plant

By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer

January 17, 2006, 2:23 PM EST

NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- U.S. Repeating Arms said Tuesday that it is preparing to close its flagship factory in New Haven, where Winchester rifles have been made for 140 years.

The announcement touched off a lobbying effort by city officials and union leaders who hoped to find someone to buy the plant before it closes March 31.

"It's part of who we are as a nation just like it's part of who we are as a city. It's the gun that won the West," Mayor John DeStefano said. "What are we going to have, Winchester rifles manufactured in China? Is this what we're coming to?"

Everett Corey, a representative of the International Association of Machinists District 26, said 186 workers will lose their jobs if the plant closes. The company said it had more than 19,000 workers during World War II.

"Several generations have worked at this place, a lot of fathers and brothers, sons, uncles and daughters," said Paul DeMennato, facility director at U.S. Repeating Arms. "A lot of marriages were people who met at Winchester."

U.S. Repeating Arms, which is owned by the Herstal Group, a Belgium company, has said for years that it was on the brink of closing the plant. The company said sales have fallen off steadily.

DeMennato said the company is negotiating the sale of its plant. The Winchester name is owned by Missouri-based Olin Corp., which had sold U.S. Repeating Arms the right to use the name until next year.

Olin had no immediate word on its plans for the Winchester name.

JDL

01-17-2006, 05:23 PM

This really saddens me, prolly not as much as those directly affected though. Maybe something will change. :-( -JDL

Bigscot

01-17-2006, 05:55 PM

Where are the other models made such as the Model 70?

BS

Bigscot

01-17-2006, 05:56 PM

My fault. Re-read and saw that Model 70's were mentioned.

BS

SharpsShooter

01-17-2006, 07:05 PM

Marlin prices will go through the roof without a little competition.

Dutch4122

01-17-2006, 07:21 PM

Marlin prices will go through the roof without a little competition.

Sure hope not. One thing in our favor is that the levergun manufacturers have to consider that there are a lot of just fine used lever-actions out there. In a sense they are in competition with the guns they have made in the past which are now on the used market and attactively priced. Can't count how many times I've seen somebody in a gun shop go for the used .30-30 with a little wear and a decent bore just because it's priced at $250 and a new Winchester or Marlin is $75 to $100 more.

NVcurmudgeon

01-18-2006, 12:52 AM

Winchester is a fine old manufacturer of very good rifles, and "the gun that won the west" is an inspired advertising slogan. I surely hope the company can be saved. However, the gun that won the west is, IMO, US Army Springfields.

jballs918

01-18-2006, 02:53 AM

hhmm i think i just seen some more dollar signs added to my own model 64. but that is sad to see them go. i was thikning about getting a 45/70 i may not now

Four Fingers of Death

01-18-2006, 03:17 AM

I was going to buy a 3006 Winchester to celebrate 100 yrs (I like model 70s as much as 94s), but thought I'd better pull my head in as I'm spending far too much on guns lately. Might bite the boolit and go ahead with it now.

S.R.Custom

01-24-2006, 12:57 PM

Good riddance...

The real tragedy here is the crap that the bunch in Connecticut has turned out in the past few years-- a real insult to the Winchester heritage.

I recently bought a '94 Trapper in .44 Mag. Took it out to shoot for the first time, and it keyholed at 7 yards with my best cast target loads. I slugged the barrel, and the groove diameter came in at .434" and the top of the lands measured .428"! Inexcuseable. I didn't even bother with a warranty claim; I just took it straight back to my dealer for a refund...

StarMetal

01-24-2006, 04:31 PM

SuperMag,

I have a 45LC Trapper. The groove mikes out dead on .452. Come on down to TN and I'll shoot cigarettes out of your mouth at 100 yards. You just got a lemon just as there are lemons in any products so don't condemn the whole company. Want to make a bet? Slug all the 44 mag Winchesters and for everyone over the normal groove diameter I'll pay you $20 and for all that are normal you pay me $20.

Joe

S.R.Custom

01-24-2006, 08:03 PM

...Slug all the 44 mag Winchesters and for everyone over the normal groove diameter I'll pay you $20 and for all that are normal you pay me $20.
If we're talking about the guns that came out of the New Haven plant within the past few years or so, I'll take that bet in a heartbeat.

I'm not condemning the whole company. I'm saying that they should have closed the New Haven plant a long time ago. I've watched a lot of ill-fitted, poor performing junk come out of that plant for the last few years now; it's a sad state of affairs when the Miroku built Winchester is far and away better than the Winchester made here at home (I've owned both)...

steveb

01-24-2006, 10:21 PM

Gone But Not Forgotten
The New Haven CT Made WINCHESTER

MTWeatherman

01-25-2006, 02:10 PM

I'm not condemning the whole company. I'm saying that they should have closed the New Haven plant a long time ago. I've watched a lot of ill-fitted, poor performing junk come out of that plant for the last few years now; it's a sad state of affairs when the Miroku built Winchester is far and away better than the Winchester made here at home (I've owned both)...

Trouble is...they not only closed the New Haven plant but made the decision to close out the "traditional rifle" line as well...'94, 70 etc. So, there goes the Miroku '94s and 70s as well (assuming they were still making them). Herstal said that only "high end" modern rifles would now carry the Winchester name...and these would be made in Belgium, Japan, or Portugal.

Todays economy makes it difficult to define a true "Winchester". You have a Belgium Company (Herstal) owning a U.S. plant (U.S. Repeating Arms) which manufactures the '94 Winchester (trade mark owned by Olin). Is it a "Winchester" because of its design, because it was made by a Herstal group or the New Haven plant, or simply because it carries the name? Bottom line is that today's "Winchester" is not necessarily your grandads Winchester and just because Herstal has decided to stop manufacturing the '94 and New Haven is closed, another manufacturer may produce the '94. However, unless they can negotiate a deal it may not carry the name "Winchester". It could be of higher quality than the New Haven product, be identical to the old '94, but carry a new name like Taurus, or Rossi, or Leversupreme...you name it. Will it have the same appeal as it did when it was made in New Haven with the name "Winchester" stamped on it?
Will is still be a "Winchester"?

At any rate, quality issues or not, I still hate to see that New Haven plant close. Herstal bears the ultimate responsibilty for any quality control issues that may exist and they should have been able to solve them without closing the plant. I fail to understand that there cannot be enough demand for the '94 or 70 to not allow at least one plant to manufacture it and make a profit (like New Haven). ...even if reduced production is required. I suspect that other issues, not advertised, entered into this decision as well. Lets face it, a foreign corporation cannot be expected to have much allegiance to a U.S. Company. I hate to see the loss of so many American manufacturing jobs. When we lose our better paying manufacturing jobs and largely become a "service economy", there will be less people able to afford those manufactured products anymore...domestic or foreign.

Junior1942

01-25-2006, 03:36 PM

There's a couple of things I get by reading between the lines re Winchester closing.

1. continuing problems with the machinist union.

2. losing the Winchester name next year.

I'm betting (1) that the union let them know there'd be no more concessions, and (2) Olin let them know that they wanted much more money for the Winchester name.

Either of those two items could put an iffy financial situation over the top. They probably got hit with both.

MTWeatherman

01-25-2006, 06:40 PM

Junior:

I hadn't heard about any issues with the machinists union or Olin. However, if your analysis is correct, it could well explain the closure. Herstal probably figured that it wouldn't be possible to deliver the desired profits with the status quo. So, close New Haven, move the remaining production elsewhere and reserve the Winchester name for "high end" rifles where the trademark costs could be absorbed.

Too bad.....

Four Fingers of Death

01-25-2006, 10:14 PM

They might'nt have been making much profit with it and it was a chance to get out of it and square up with the union.

azrednek

01-27-2006, 11:31 AM

[QUOTE=4fingermick] I'm spending far too much on guns lately.QUOTE]

Now that is just impossible!! How can anybody spend to much??

Four Fingers of Death

01-28-2006, 08:05 AM

You can if you work at it like I have been doing. I've got about fifteen recently acquired rifles and pistolas which I haven't worked loads up for yet and two pistols that I can't get to Sydney to pick up.

Four Fingers of Death

01-28-2006, 08:28 AM

Bullshop

01-28-2006, 10:04 AM

Actually I sat down and thought about it for a minute, I have 7 pistols and 15 rifles that I haven't managed to get loads worked out for. I've either got to retire or start thinking about using factory ammo (hush your mouth!). Bugger!
Hey Mick maybe you could just change jobs and hang out your dealer shingle. Sounds like you have a good start. Its the greatest excuse I have ever come up with for buying guns and shooting. Shooting for work, I like it I like it a lot!
BIC/BS

Four Fingers of Death

01-28-2006, 11:13 PM

Sounds good, I have a friend who is set up as a part time dealer, he is located a long way from me and he has offered to let me set up in his garage. He is worried that the goverment (mainly the Police, the goverment as such seem to be happy that we have a very strictly controlled system, but as we only have one police force in the state, they weild a lot of influence and they are always trying to make things harder) will restrict issuing new licenses. He wants me to get a license and a safe, put it in his garage (which has back to base alarms, etc) and that way even if I don't do much before I retire, I will have a foot in the door. I will have to extract the digit and take him up on it.

PatMarlin

01-29-2006, 02:57 AM

I'm glad I got my one and only Winchester 94 when I did. It's AE carbine centennial 1894-1994. Nothin' special just a brand in the stock, and the dates stamped on the receiver. The wood is very nice, along with the fit and finish.

In 45 LC and the bores dead on .452- wonderful rifle I'll keep the rest of my days.

Four Fingers of Death

01-30-2006, 04:54 AM

That's a keeper! Mick.

ammohead

01-31-2006, 12:24 AM

Have you seen the asking price on the new Stevens centerfire rifles. Heck the price of a new Savage has been a great deal. Could be that Herstal saw the handwriting on the wall and wasn't prepared to loose money in the working man's rifle market.

Was another company back in the 70's that couldn't compete with the working man's version of the product they produced....motorcycles. Decided to get into the high end market and build a superior product, to hell with the price. People flocked to them and still do. Now there is a waiting period for a Harley Davidson and the company is successful beyond belief. Perhaps Herstal is taking a page from thier history book. Too bad they can't do it in America.

ammohead

ammohead

01-31-2006, 12:36 AM

YAHOO!!! I made "Boolit Man" YIPEE!!!

After 7 years I'm not a newfie anymore!

ammohead

9.3X62AL

01-31-2006, 01:07 AM

Ammohead--

If someone did produce the M-94's and M-70's with the same attention to quality that a late 1940's rifle had--they could sell them at twice the cost of the late-edition variants. I hope someone does exactly that--'cause I'll buy at least one of each, in 38-55 and maybe 270 respectively. Never had a 270, it should be a good one if I do.

Four Fingers of Death

01-31-2006, 03:34 AM

I always fancied a 3006 Mod 70 because it is my favourite bolt gun calibre, but the 270 Featherweight has to be the quintessential Winchester Mod 70, The rifleman's rifle!

StarMetal

01-31-2006, 09:58 AM

Four Fingers of Death

02-01-2006, 03:30 AM

Bonnevilles and Commandos-the sound of music! Don't get me wrong I learnt to ride on Harleys, but they're a bit slow and don't scratch through corners enough for me.

I was in the army (infantry at that time) and we marched around this building and were halted near a row of what looked like brand new 42WLA Harley Davidsons. The sargeant said anyone who could ride a motor cycle to fall out. I was the only guy who stepped forward. I couldn't ride a bike to save my life at the time, but one thing for sure was that I was going to be throwing a leg over one of those machines sooner than later. They marched the other guys off, issued me a set of Don-R (what the Aussie and Brit armies call despatch riders) gear and boots and wrote an army motor cycle license out at the same time. As they were writing, I squeaked out that I could drive a car and a truck (sort of) as well. The corporal behind the desk shrugged and included all non fighting vehicles on my new license. I was then given a satchel and a map and directed to deliver it to a battalion that were exercising some 100 miles south. Whe they showed me which bike to take, they turned and started walking back inside. I didn't have a clue how to start it and told the sarge that, while I had ridden lots of bikes (not!), I had never ridden one of these. He shrugged, gave me a run through, kicked it over, rode around the building with me jogging beside whilst he explained the gears and re parked it outside the building, got off left it running and walked back inside to his cool office. I waited until he was out of sight, jumped on and let it roll down the hill away from the office before dropping it in second gear about 50 yards down the hill. I was away, the fact that the foot clutch and gear stick was similar to a car made perfect sense to me, if it had of been a normal bike I would have mucked up, got my ass kicked and would have been peeling spuds for a few weeks.

I dropped the bike three times on the way to my destination and the bike and I were such a mess they bought us back in a truck. I didn't get to ride despatch much, but loved every minute of it. They made me ride around the camp and when they saw I was hopeless, they taught me properly.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

versifier

02-01-2006, 05:14 PM

Mick, the thread is heading in a better direction than the company, and your story is much more upbeat than their current prospects!

shooter575

02-02-2006, 12:52 AM

Mick,good story.You can highjack any of my threads. I have owned Jap bikes,a Harley and a couple BSA's In the 60's if you rode a bike you better be able to wrench on it or have enough money to hire it done. Jap bikes you never realy needed to do much to them.That opened up riding to the masses.The early jap road bikes were dogs in the curves.Not like a Trumpet or Beezer at all.
I got a partal basket case 650 BSA in the barn.When I get time...

StarMetal

02-02-2006, 01:52 AM

....and then Honda came out with the 750 Interceptor. A street racing bike with the new technology of the frame on the outside of the bike and a V-4 water cooled engine. I had one of the first ones made. That sucker could really take the curves. The british bikes had better frame technology then anyone else in the early years. They were basically racing frames. I know alot of biker thing Harleys sound good, but to me nothing sounds better then a 650 Triumph. Triumph by the way is making those old 60's models new today with much needed updated electrical systems. I'd like to get one, but wifey says no.

I'll tell you what is a killer street bike for speed and curves...the Ducati.
The Japs pretty much ran away with the dirt bike sales. I rode alot of dirt too. To me one should ride dirt first and learng all the body english to maneuver a bike before going street.

Joe

Four Fingers of Death

02-02-2006, 05:13 AM

I have discovered a shop in the next state near my sister's home where I visit occasionally where the main order of business is restoring and maintaining Norton Commandos. They can restore a Commando and turn it out as a virtually new bike, eiter completly stock, or with upgrades to brakes, electrics, carbs, etc for about the price of a new decent bike. Maybe when I retire.

Ed Barrett

02-02-2006, 05:58 PM

I was at the range today, and shooting the bull while waiting for barrels to cool, the fellows were talking about the Winchester question. One guy said wal-mart sold out of 94,s and had another bunch in stock in 2 days. One of the larger gunshops sold out of used 94's (4 rifles) for the first time other than right before deer season. Seems like some people are getting greedy. I always liked Savage 99's and Marlins more anyway.

zeke

02-04-2006, 08:51 AM

Am always sorry to see people losing their jobs, for what ever reason. Before the announcement bought a brand new Win Trapper in 30-30 (am liking the tang safety). Very accurate rifle, easily just as well finished as newer Marlins have seen and owned. Lucked into a newer (slightly used) M70 in 6.5X55 Classic featherweight last winter. Extremely accurate with loads it likes and the nicest looking rifle owned. More than a couple years ago, bought a new Win Trapper in 45 LC. Smoothest rifling of any firearm owned, excellent shooter with cast or jacketed.

J Miller

02-04-2006, 02:57 PM

I've been following this thing about the USRAC plant closing. For the last bunch of years, well since they brought out the cross bolt safety, I've been bad mouthing the 94s every where the subject came up.
Then the tang safetys, which are no doubt a better design, and now......well they are gone.

I think USRAC, Herstal, and who ever was involved with the design changes of the 94 shot themselfs in the foot. The 94 was damaged with the changes made in 64, but it's sales continued because it was still traditional. All the traditions went down the toilet in 82 when USRAC carved that gouge out of the right side of the frame. From there it just got worse.

Well, I've said all that, but now I'll admit that even though I bad mouthed the 94, at least I had the option to buy a new one IF I wanted too. That choice will soon be gone. And that makes me sad.

I doubt that anybody else will take up the production of the 94. It's not really good for CAS and that's a lot of the reasons that Rossi, Uberti, and Miroku are selling the other ones.

Hopefully Marlin will keep their quality up and their prices reasonable.

Joe

StarMetal

02-04-2006, 03:50 PM

Funny, since U.S. Repeating Arms announced their closing all kind of bad mouthing has come out about Winchesters. You have have no right to bad mouth the safeties, because Marlin went and done the same thing, that lousy crossbolt, they didn't even refine it to the tang safety. I'll admit I'm not fond of the cut in the right side of the receiver for angle eject, but how many of you would have been happy and kept your mouths shut if Winchester provided a sidemount with the 94's? I've had and seen Winchester products the past few years and I personally don't think that they are any better or worse then other companies including Marlin. I think Winnie 94's and Marlins have both their good features and bad ones. Whether Winchester were good or bad I hate to see them go.

Joe

Newtire

02-05-2006, 06:56 PM

The big old harley hog is a big seller ONLY because of the IMAGE it presents. The Jap bikes beat them to hell in every area. Hell back in their hay days a Triumph was more bike then a Harley would ever be, so were Nortons.

Joe
Hey Joe,
Had one of those 750 Snortin'Nortons..a '72 Commando. If it wasn't throwing oil out the speedo cable or slicking up the back tire with oil from the chain oiler, then it was unscrewing the exhaust retainer nuts or vibrating fender bolts loose, unless of course, it was busy wearing out the valve guides. And you guys complain about Lee bullet moulds! Have to agree with you on those Harley's though. The price they are asking for one these days...

floodgate

02-05-2006, 10:10 PM

Newtire:

Then you must recall Sir Joseph Lucas, "The Prince of Darkness". Then there was that trio of fundamental patents on which the whole Redcoat automotive industry was based: the "self-loosening" nut; the porous casting; and the oil-soluble gasket. I did get to ride a Norton Commando a few miles once; it WAS quite a bike! But the high point was when I once kick-started a Velocette Venom Clubman, under the careful tutelage of its owner. Sadly, he perished of a heart attack several weeks later, trying to start his Velocette - got out of synch with the spark, choke and throttle....

floodgate

StarMetal

02-05-2006, 11:12 PM

Newtire,

Hell, the were all like that back then. Harley was lucking to be able to drive out of the factory door. I'll admit, bikes back then vibrated alot. You know, I got that 61 chevy Impala with a smallblock and four speed in it and by god when I drive you would know I drove an old car, I would smell like oil and gasoline. I'm amazed at how today's fuel injection and the closed fuel system cut down on the smell of gasoline. Well those old bike were the same as the old cars. You got dirty and smelled like gas and oil riding them. To me that was the fun of them.

Joe

Herb in Pa

02-05-2006, 11:49 PM

StarMetal

02-06-2006, 12:39 AM

Herb,

I had a friend that had an AJS trail bike. It had three nut and bolt systems on it FROM THE FACTORY....whitwort, metric, and american. What a nightmare to work on. Good running and performing bike too.

Joe

NVcurmudgeon

02-06-2006, 01:50 AM

I don't see why all the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth regarding crossbolt safeties on lever actions. I like the one on my Marlin 1894 Cowboy. I use the traditional half cock safety almost exclusively, and with better reason than most as I am left-handed. The crossbolt safety is almost invisible, anyway. But, when it comes time to unload the rifle, the crossbolt safety is there and you can bet your sweet bippy I use it. ******** about the unobtrusive Marlin crossbolt safety is a related, though less harmful, idiocy than pinning a 1911 grip safety. All the above is opinion, so please hold the flames.

StarMetal

02-06-2006, 01:58 AM

I unload my leveractions thru the loading gates. Don't like levering them out...tears up the brass and bullet too much.

Joe

Frank46

02-06-2006, 02:14 AM

Ed, sounds like some folks are buying to hold on to and hope the price goes up, much like brownings. But darn it they made so many 94's wether standard or angle eject that it probably won't make any difference. Get ready to see them for sale on the auction sites advertised as no longer made, rare, or vintage. As for me I'm quite happy with my two winchesters a canadian cenntennial 30-30 and a 94 big bore in 375 win. Frank

jh45gun

02-09-2006, 06:37 PM

Saw a 92 clone 44 mag with the safety on top of the reciever right in front of the hammer. Small and easy to see not like the WIN and Marlin ones since it is right in front of you and a reminder to check. If I was going to get a lever gun that had a safety it would be that one.

StarMetal

02-09-2006, 06:46 PM

Frank,

don't matter how many Winchester made, as soon as the word was out the greedy ******** jacked the prices already.

Joe

Scrounger

02-09-2006, 08:30 PM

Frank,

don't matter how many Winchester made, as soon as the word was out the greedy ******** jacked the prices already.

Joe

The distributors are sold out, too. Since they are no longer being made, does that mean all Winchesters and USRAC guns are now 'Collectors Item' and eligible to be purchased on a C & R License???? :kidding: I hate collectors...

StarMetal

02-09-2006, 08:54 PM

ART ART!!! You made a grave mistake, that is the chain to the gallows floor release to drop the condemned to be hung. My God Old Chap, you just hung a few. :violin:

Joe

9.3X62AL

02-09-2006, 09:13 PM

Hanging a few collection fascists wouldn't be a bad start.

floodgate

02-09-2006, 10:40 PM

Al:

"Collection Fascists"; I LIKE that! From the Collection Fascists' "Mein Kampf": Every time you buy a firearm or a box of cartridges (or a mould or a loading tool, or...), buy a second one and put it away in the original wrappings, un-opened. In fact, put the FIRST one away too. My (totally unreasonable???) reaction, is: "It's MINE by damn, and if I want to bubba-cize it, it's MY proppity!!!"

You seem to be having more than your share of "medical" problems. PLEEZ, take care of yourself... We want you around for a L - O - N - G time yet!

floodgate

woody1

02-09-2006, 11:35 PM

floodgate

02-10-2006, 12:33 AM

Woody:

"Ya mean it's OK that I have a Pre 64 Winchester 94 with a cut down stock and a shortened magazine, sling, and gulp... side mount scope? 'Cuz I like it?"

'at's the spirit, Woody!

Doug

3584ELK

02-10-2006, 04:56 PM

I went to a gun show last weekend, and I swear, every lever action Winchester in the entire state was on sale. Plain- jane WalMart specials were wearing price tags of $400 and up. What, we are going to run out and buy Winchester lever actions in a panic, then when the company gets bought out, whine about the decline in value? Not me. The world didn't end when USRAC took over, and I suppose things will crank back up again.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Winchesters. I just see no reason to get my panties in a wad.

Four Fingers of Death

02-10-2006, 10:58 PM

I don't think we should chop up pristine military rifles that are drying up and also significant other rifles and guns. I have a pre 64 243 Featherweight in original condition. It would be a shame to change it, as would some of my military rifles. Having said that I will shoot anything I own, no matter what. I really don't agree with the unturned/nib/unused boolshoot.

I used to be in the Armoured Corps of the Australian Army. At the time we had Centurion Tanks (fab tank, but a pain to work on) the Saladin/Saracen Armoured cars, the Austin Champ (all Rolls Royce/Austin made vehicles, very complex and waterproofed) and last but not least Land Rovers. There was a sign in the big workshops in Bandiana whihc said "The DEVIL WAS AN ENGLISHMAN!"

350mag

02-11-2006, 04:08 AM

Hi Starmetal Joe,
I kow you know pretty much everything about everything, but, I think I will need to take exception to a few of your motorcycle comments. By the way I started roadracing bikes in 1977 and finished in the top 3 in two classes last year at Mid -Ohio last year at the AHRMA national in July. I worked in the motorcycle dealerships for over 15 years, so I know a little bit about bikes. First off, the new Triumph twin has nothing in common with the old one except some styling cues. It is a 900 with an entirely different engine and frame. Also, when the Brit bikes were considered the best handling, had nothing to do with them being a racing frame. It had to do with a low powered engine in a competent frame on skinny tires that didn't overstress anything. Competative handling bikes were made and raced by BMW, Gilera, MV Augusta, Moto Guzzi, DKW and Benelli(the gun people) among others.

Now the Interceptor was an excellent machine when it came out in 1983, but the liquid cooled v-4 was not a new concept considering Yamaha had the RD56 in the mid sixties and I am sure it had been done before considering that Moto-Guzzi had a 350cc and 500cc liquid cooled V-8 in 1958. The perimeter frame has been around since the 1930s but Honda was the first to put it into general production. The Honda Interceptor really was the 1st of the new generation of sport bikes. I raced bothe the 500 and 750 interceptor in their day and they were very competative and easy to get around the track.
Check out AHRMA.org and look at the race series for the new Triumph Thruxton. They are pretty cool and If you have followed motorcycle racing from the 70s, both Jay Springsteen and Gary Nixon are racing the series.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I love bikes as much as guns and am glad I don't have to choose one over the other.
Ken

Frank46

02-11-2006, 04:35 AM

Joe, was at a gun show a few weeks ago. One dealer that has had the same winchester '86 light weight in 45-70 used to have a tag for $750 on it. Now its up to $950. Guess the buy 'em and see what direction they will go in craze has started. Frank

StarMetal

02-11-2006, 12:11 PM

350mag,

Here we go again "I was a dealer for 15 years"....So what? Does not necessarily make you knowledgeable. My ex father in law was a mechanic all his entire life. Retired from being a service manager at a Chevy dealership. You would think he was pretty knowledge about engine, especially chevies. Well this old boy, when he was in his very early 20's taught him a thing or two and we had a major problem with a chevy engine (carburation actually) and nobody could solve it but me. Took me a damn long time too and it turned out simple too.

Okay, you missed one of the most important aspects of the Triumph and most British frames and that was the front fork rake angle. The geometry of the frame was different from most other bikes, this little change made a big difference in handling. About being underpowered...********...for the weight of the bike it was fine. British bikes were no ways as heavy as big fat Harley hogs. I guess you would concider a Vincent Blackshadow underpowered and slow huh????

Rarely is new technology new especially in the automotive industry. I never said Honda invented the outside frame idea. I also said that the new Triumphs had some changes on them. I guess I should have been more specific. For your information the new Triumphs old classic Triumphs have three models, one of which is the old name of Bonneville, WHICH IS NOT A 900 CC, as you're 15 dealer yrs of knowledge might have thought. See told ya "so what". Here's the specs on the engine: Engine Type Air-cooled, DOHC, parallel-twin, 360 degree firing interval Capacity 790cc Bore/Stroke 86 x 68mm Compression Ratio 9.2:1 Fuel System Twin carburettors with throttle position sensor and electric carburettor heaters Ignition Digital - inductive type

For those of you that would like to see here here's the site: http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/785.aspx

Know it all Joe [smilie=l::kidding:

StarMetal

02-11-2006, 12:20 PM

Oh, I forgot this: The Bonnie undergoes numerous and significant upgrades to its engine, gearbox, transmission and frame (after toying with a duplex design, Triumph instead made a larger diameter downtube to combat wobble and weave). A special TT model (T120C/TT) is produced until 1967 for the USA, due to the encouragement of Bill Johnson, of Johnson Motors ("Jo-Mo"). This is a stripped-down racing model, only made until 1966 for the US market. Two US dealers on a camping trip come up with the idea for the T20M Mountain Cub, combining Tiger Cub, Sports Cub and trials Cub parts. First sold in USA in 1964, proves very successful.

Hmmmmm did it say anything about racing or Triumphs in there? [smilie=l:

Joe

floodgate

02-11-2006, 01:51 PM

Joe:

I had a couple of Triumph Cubs back in the '60's. With a little tweaking (bars off a 500, semi-knobbies, etc.), they made up into the best-handling desert "cow-trailing" bikes I ever owned. They had most of the "Redcoat" faults, but those were manageable. And their 200 cc's would stay with ANY of the Japanese 80's or 90's, and some of the 125's. You DO bring back the memories...thanks!

Doug

StarMetal

02-11-2006, 01:57 PM

Doug,

Hey I knew one fellow that had a Cub. I never got to ride it and I remember my best friend and I always wanting one. They did have their Redcoat faults alright, but they were always having some mechanical problem of some sorts I don't remember now, but hey they were "way cool".

You'll remember this one too Doug, I'm sure. I was just a wee small kid, probably about like 6 or 7. Neighbor had two growed sons and the one took a fancy to me. Well they had a Wizard motorbike. Joe, his name also, use to take me on rides around the neighbor hood on it. Use to sit on the crossbar like we all did when riding someone on your bicycle. I remember it being a dark green color with white lettering and the engine was on the front tire. Now for a little kid that was really something to get a ride.

Joe

350mag

02-11-2006, 04:22 PM

Joe,
Since a pissing match does nobody any good especially on an off topic point, I will bow to your superior knowledge on all topics and your superior ability to do an internet search to find specific facts that can "prove" everybody else wrong. For everybody elses sake, please don't respond to this post on this thread. However, if you want to discuss bikes and stuff send me a PM or an e-mail at kenessex at aol.com. I love talking bikes and racing.
Thanks Joe,
Ken

jh45gun

02-11-2006, 05:31 PM

What the flock does all this bike stuff have to do with Winchester?

StarMetal

02-11-2006, 06:33 PM

Whoaaaaaaaa, hold on there administrators. Before Marshall Waksupi gets a warrant to hunt me down :Fire: let me say that 350mag and I aren't after one another's throats. We've been pm-ing and all is cool. Ken also does know a bit about motorcycles [smilie=2:

And no the adminstrators didn't pull my last post. I felt bad really coming down on Ken.

So someone ask what the flock all this got to do with Winchester...well simple answer....alot of these old bike companies seemed destined to fade into the past.....but got revived and still live on today....so might Winchester. That friend of mine that works in that machineshop that supplied them with some of their parts just emailed me and said they(winchester) is pulling hard to try to keep it together. Hard to tell what will happen now. Isn't it something Winchester comes out with this devastating announcement and then in the latest Guns&Ammo the 325 shortmag Featherweight gets the Gun of the Year Award? Some of the things that make this the United States to me is Colt, Winchester, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Marlin, Savage, Chevrolet, Ford (sic hahahaha, couldn't help that Buckshot), Coke Cola, Pepsi...well you guys know...and there's more too. I had to see any of them go...Oh and Ken...I didn't forget Harley Davidson.

Joe