Developing a .404 Jeffery Cast Bullet Plinking / Practice Load

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

I’m currently looking at ways of developing a low cost plinking load for my .404 Jeffery.

This probably means going with cast bullets. Unfortunately the chances of me ever having a location to cast my own are rather slim so it looks like resizing bullets is the way forward. (I also can't seem to find anyone willing to cast bullets for me in such an odd

My current plan is to resize .430 commercially available cast lead bullets down to .424 and start with this 300gr which I have 100 on order:

https://i.imgur.com/C0ZBuySl.jpg

I use .44 cal bullets from this maker for my 44 Mag lever action in 240gr RNFP and 255gr SWCGC with some decent success.

Anyway, I managed to get a .427” and a .424” for sizing down the .430” as cast bullets and I try with the 240gr and 255gr bullets. Sample of 1 so don’t so more experimentation needed but so far signs are good. These are 2 stage resized bullets:

https://i.imgur.com/EHtkVt3l.jpg

Both seem to have some lube left, something of a crimping groove and lengthened a bit over 0.2mm (0.008”) so that bodes well (I think though I would welcome comments).

Next stage / decisions are:

decide whether to give a bit of extra lube with Liquid Alox or go the whole hog and try and home powder coat
See if the it is possible to get a gas check onto that 300gr Shell House Bullet
Powder choice is likely to be Reload Swiss RS14 (European Trail Boss equivalent, odd shape powder designed to fill case without too much pressure).

Thoughts and advice much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[fredj338]

I also have a 404 jeffery. For low cost practicing to 100y, i sized 300gr jacketed 44 to 0.423”. I did it in two steps, 0.427” then 0.423” using Imperial sizing wax or lanolin based swaging lube. I love my 404j. Its been to Africa twice, two shots, two buffalo & a bunch of plains game, all one shot kills.
I chose this route as cleaning between jacketed & lead is important for best accuracy. Gas checks here are about 6c, j-bullets about 60c.

[elk hunter]

Good solution in both cases.

The 404 Jeffery is a splendid old caliber. I would have one if I didn't have a 416 Rigby.

[Scrumbag]

I also have a 404 jeffery. For low cost practicing to 100y, i sized 300gr jacketed 44 to 0.423”. I did it in two steps, 0.427” then 0.423” using Imperial sizing wax or lanolin based swaging lube. I love my 404j. Its been to Africa twice, two shots, two buffalo & a bunch of plains game, all one shot kills.
I chose this route as cleaning between jacketed & lead is important for best accuracy. Gas checks here are about 6c, j-bullets about 60c.

Sadly here in the U.K. a 300 gr jacketed 44 cal really isn’t very cheap.

[Scrumbag]

Good solution in both cases.

The 404 Jeffery is a splendid old caliber. I would have one if I didn't have a 416 Rigby.

Was shooting it today infact with jacketed bullets

[elk hunter]

Was shooting it today infact with jacketed bullets

Makes me want to shoot my Rigby. Haven't done that in a while. I do have a mould and have shot some cast in it but more often I shoot homemade jacketed. I make the jacket by turning the rim off a 30-30 Winchester case then cut it to length and pour in a lead core then form it up in homemade dies. They come out at 400 grains. My practice load is 95 grains of H-4831. Top load with a 400 is 108 grains. It's quite a horse to ride at full throttle. I built it to take to Africa. We were supposed to go back in 2018 and the Rigby was going but life intervened and we couldn't go. I keep thinking that somewhere in Africa there is a 48" buffalo with my name on it. I did shoot a spike bull elk with it a few years ago. Someone said that was over-kill but hey it worked. Enjoy your 404.

[Scrumbag]

Sounds awesome!

[fredj338]

Sadly here in the U.K. a 300 gr jacketed 44 cal really isn’t very cheap.

Cast should work just fine. If i were to try cast i would go with PC & forget lubes.

[Scrumbag]

Cast should work just fine. If i were to try cast i would go with PC & forget lubes.

Thanks

[15meter]

If you can get 5744 or Trailboss, you can work up some pretty nice plinker loads. Both have formulas for reduced loads.

I've done it for a fair number of big bores and it's worked way better than it has a right to.

I've done 470, 450, 450/400, 400/350 Nitro Express, 416 Rigby, 500/450 #1, 400/360 Purdy, 350 Rigby Magnum and probably a dozen more big bores.

I'm a huge fan of mouse fart loads.

And if your rifle is of the vintage where they stamped the cordite load in the rifle, there is a formula out there that gives a RL-15 for cordite load that equals the factory loading.

A lot of times you can get a load with RL-15 to regulate first try.

[15meter]

And should have added that pistol weight bullets/boolits for the reduced loads help with the regulation.

[Scrumbag]

Cheers 15 meter

[Scrumbag]

Bit of an update, managed to get hold of some 44 cal 265gr Interlock. Might be a fun idea if those bullets will resize and I can get an accurate load at ~2100 fps I will be duplicating .444 Marlin which will still be useful.

I am going to try some Bengal bullets and their 390gr LFN GC offering as an idea as well.

(Also I want to try the 265gr in the .44 mag as well. Could be an interesting option for deer hunting and silly longer range target shooting)

Scrummy

[reedap1]

Scrummy,

If you can get these delivered to the UK at a reasonable cost, you might consider Hunters Supply as a source. They sell a 0.427-sized 240-grain flat point (also in HP) that is powder coated (they call it Slick Coat) so you can save some time over lubing etc. The 0.003" over your required 0.424" diameter bullet might even work at low pressure without further sizing. They do state that they deliver internationally in their FAQs.

Have a look here:

https://www.hunters-supply.com/427-4440-cal-240-p-2803.html

From their FAQs:
How long will it take for an order to be delivered to a foreign country?
Once orders are placed on our site, they are processed for shipment in a timely manner for our customers. Shipping time varies by country. Please inquire by email. We now have an international dealer at www.Krale-schietsport.nl that carry our bullets for faster service. All PCP Air Rifles are shipped by ground service only.

I use a variety of their bullets in both handguns and rifles and find them to be of high quality. Now that they offer their bullets powder coated I have to find lots of excuses for me to cast my own except for my big calibers (416 Rigby, 500 S&W, and 470 Nitro Express).

Good luck,

Paul

[Scrumbag]

Scrummy,

If you can get these delivered to the UK at a reasonable cost, you might consider Hunters Supply as a source. They sell a 0.427-sized 240-grain flat point (also in HP) that is powder coated (they call it Slick Coat) so you can save some time over lubing etc. The 0.003" over your required 0.424" diameter bullet might even work at low pressure without further sizing. They do state that they deliver internationally in their FAQs.

Have a look here:

https://www.hunters-supply.com/427-4440-cal-240-p-2803.html

From their FAQs:
How long will it take for an order to be delivered to a foreign country?
Once orders are placed on our site, they are processed for shipment in a timely manner for our customers. Shipping time varies by country. Please inquire by email. We now have an international dealer at www.Krale-schietsport.nl that carry our bullets for faster service. All PCP Air Rifles are shipped by ground service only.

I use a variety of their bullets in both handguns and rifles and find them to be of high quality. Now that they offer their bullets powder coated I have to find lots of excuses for me to cast my own except for my big calibers (416 Rigby, 500 S&W, and 470 Nitro Express).

Good luck,

Paul

Thanks!

[Scrumbag]

Scrumbag - You might get away without sizing your cast bullets if your throat and chamber neck allow, and they might even shoot better.

My 9x56 MS had a .353" barrel and a throat that started at .359". It would chamber and shoot a .360" cast bullet (#358009HP) and produce 1.25" groups at 50 yards with 1900 fps loads. Bullets sized .354" shot poorly at the higher velocity.

I suggest measuring the neck OD of a loaded cartridge, fire the round, and measure the neck OD of the fired case. The difference is how much you can add to bullet diameter and still chamber the round with clearance.

I regularly use .3125" cast bullets in a .30-30. They chamber and shoot just fine, though I pick up and fix the odd thick neck by outside neck turning everything, just enough to rub off the high spots.

I think it is Richard Lee who is quoted as saying if you can chamber the loaded round you don't need to size the cast bullet.

That's an interesting idea! I have a .424 sizing ring so dropping down to something shootable should work. I will check but I don't think .430 will go into my fired cases.

Bit of luck the 300gr cast bullets I ordered will turn up soon.

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

Scrummy - I would be suspicious also that light loads in that case, given the shallow shoulder, will push the shoulders back after even one or two shots. It's primer force without sufficient backward powder force that does it.

Some people use pistol primers and enlarged flash holes to lessen the effect.

It might also be that a cast bullet hard up against the throat could help avoid the problem.

Probably go with RS14 which is a trailboss substitute

[Scrumbag]

Well folks,

300gr bullets have turned up.

According to the box rated at BHN15.4 and max PSI 19100.

As soon as my .423 resizing die shows up I will start having a play.

RS14 will be a couple of months but has some Unique and think I can get some Lovex DO36 (Basically a clone of Accurate 5744).

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

I also have a 404 jeffery. For low cost practicing to 100y, i sized 300gr jacketed 44 to 0.423”. I did it in two steps, 0.427” then 0.423” using Imperial sizing wax or lanolin based swaging lube. I love my 404j. Its been to Africa twice, two shots, two buffalo & a bunch of plains game, all one shot kills.
I chose this route as cleaning between jacketed & lead is important for best accuracy. Gas checks here are about 6c, j-bullets about 60c.

Hi Fred, quick question for you. I have found a reasonably inexpensive supply of Hornady 265r Interlocks. Reckon if I loaded those to ~2100 fps be a decent deer load? (Replicating a 444 Marlin I guess).

Scrummy

[MarkP]

Are 0.440 round balls available in the UK?

Push the RB thru a sizer and you would end up with something between and old collar button and a round ball. Tumble lube let dry and thumb press into a primed and charged case. Probably 4 to 5 gr of fast burning powder.

If I can find a 0.440" ball I will push it thru my 0.418 die and upload a picture.

Here is what the Lyman Collar Button looks like. Kind like a transition between a ball and a conical bullet.

309857





Here is what a 0.530 RB looks like after going thur a 0.501" sizer and a 0.459" sizer.
309874


I used some of LAR's BAC for lube it is the pink stuff in hand and on reformed ball.

[Scrumbag]

Mark, that’s very interesting, thanks

[MarkP]

I read about loading CF cartridges with thumb pressed round balls when I was about 11 or 12 yrs old in the Dixie Gun Works catalog. Several yrs later I finally tired it and shot .360 RB's out of my 350 Rem Mags and .457 RB in my 458 Win Mag. Shot some crazy good groups at 65 yds with the 350 and so so with the 458 but they were under sized.

[Hanzy4200]

Is there a reason you don't just get a mold cut in the diameter you want? Accurate Molds would be my advice.

[Scrumbag]

Is there a reason you don't just get a mold cut in the diameter you want? Accurate Molds would be my advice.

The joys of living in an apartment block…

[Nick Adams]

Bumping this thread, as I have a .404 Jeff as well.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that a .404 Jeff owner had made his .424 HC boolits from .44 mag HC boolits using some sort of Lee product (swager?) to turn them down to the .424 diameter. Just not sure what Lee product that was nor all the steps needed to get to a pile of ready-to-load Jeff boolits.

[Scrumbag]

https://leeprecision.com/bullet-szr-punch-.424.html

Probably that.

Scrummy

[Nick Adams]

https://leeprecision.com/bullet-szr-punch-.424.html
Probably that.
Scrummy
Thank you!

[Scrumbag]

Welcome, I will be trying something similar.

Scrummy