NOE TL359-192-RF-BG2 357 Max Help

[JDUBS]

So I get some great ideas sometimes and I buy things, and then never get around to using them. Enter the NOE TL359-192-RF-BG2 GC/Ranch Dog mold I bought for A .357 max Encore Pistol I hadnt built yet at the time. This was 2-3 years ago. I finally JUST ordered my 357 max barrel so I dug the mold out of the closet and casted a couple dozen. I just realized, despite the box being labeled as having a gas check, the mold in the box does not have a gas check. My fault for not checking years ago, nothing can be done about it now. So my question is what can I do with it now? Im sure I could make plinking rounds with trailboss, but I was really looking forward to making some deer rounds with it. Is there any loadings/powders that this would still be ok for hunting with without a GC? My Max barrel is a 14" coming in from Haus of Arms. I also have some powder coat which would be better than nothing. Its a 5 boolit mold so i definitely want to put it to work! Thanks for your advice in advance!
307090

[quilbilly]

I have the similar 189 gr. mold as well in plain base. Using it in both my Contender carbine in 357 Max and Ruger M77/357, I have found that I could push that boolit in both to 1370 fps with no difficulties or leading. I am sizing to 358 and using Lee Alox. I might not use it for elk (probably could though for up-close-and personal) but any deer, average black bear, or mtn. lion that I happened to be hunting at under 150 yards would have a very bad day. This is a serious hunting boolit IMHO that combine maximum thump with penetration. It also is quite accurate with AA-9 powder.

[JDUBS]

I have the similar 189 gr. mold as well in plain base. Using it in both my Contender carbine in 357 Max and Ruger M77/357, I have found that I could push that boolit in both to 1370 fps with no difficulties or leading. I am sizing to 358 and using Lee Alox. I might not use it for elk (probably could though for up-close-and personal) but any deer, average black bear, or mtn. lion that I happened to be hunting at under 150 yards would have a very bad day. This is a serious hunting boolit IMHO that combine maximum thump with penetration. It also is quite accurate with AA-9 powder.

Thank you so much, that is reassuring, im just trying to build a sub 100 yard gun for some white tail. Ill end up getting other molds and factory bullets but I want to make sure I can still rock and roll with this one! Is the loads you are using with the AA-9?

[475AR]

You can also use plain base gas checks.
https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/358-9mm-caliber-plain-base-aluminum-gas-checks/

[JDUBS]

You can also use plain base gas checks.
https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/358-9mm-caliber-plain-base-aluminum-gas-checks/


oh wow, didnt know those were a thing. Since these boolits are cast 359, would I size to 358, then add PBGC and size to 357 to crimp them on?

[405grain]

As a general rule, you want to size your bullets to around .001" above the groove diameter on your barrel. If you size your bullet to .357 you might start experiencing barrel leading problems caused by gas cutting and blow by. You should be able to shoot at higher velocities with powder coating, but maybe not all the way up to magnum velocities. Before attempting the use of plain based gas checks, try powder coating and see what results you get.

[JDUBS]

As a general rule, you want to size your bullets to around .001" above the groove diameter on your barrel. If you size your bullet to .357 you might start experiencing barrel leading problems caused by gas cutting and blow by. You should be able to shoot at higher velocities with powder coating, but maybe not all the way up to magnum velocities. Before attempting the use of plain based gas checks, try powder coating and see what results you get.

Good call, I need to slug the barrel and check that out. I dont have it here yet but it was shipped this weekend. I made the mistake of looking into gas check makers so i see myself going that route eventually so I can send some of them screaming if I want to eventually. I definitely want to try all configurations, GC, No GC, PC, PC with GC. Being able to PB GC really opens it up though, glad I can do that and still make full use of this very nice mold. Thank you for your input!

[stubshaft]

I would just powder coat them and forget the GC. If you are going to shoot it out of an Encore, size it to fit the THROAT!

[P Flados]

I have loaded for the Max as used in two different Dan Wesson Revolvers, two different TC Contenders (10" & 14") and have loaded for a 16" AR-15 in 357 AR Max.

I have fired lots of full power 160, 180 and 200 gr powder coated plain base boolits with good accuracy and Zero leading.

Starting out my alloy was mostly wheel weights and was pretty hard. However, I ran out of the hard stuff shortly after I started using PC. Most of my boolits for the above have been more of a "medium hardness" range scrap.

My current go to powder is a milsurp, Wc 680. I bought a few 8# jugs and have a good stash of this stuff. If milsurp had not been available, I probably would have ended up using Shooters World Heavy Pistol which is nearly identical to AA 9 but typically costs less. Alliant 300-MP, Shooters World Socom and Blackout are probably all good powders for the Max but are limited by available load data. Other brands seemed to want more $$$ for their powders than I wanted to pay.

I used 296 / H110 for decades, but eventually lost confidence in the powder. Lil gun is another powder I want nothing to do with.

[JDUBS]

I have loaded for the Max as used in two different Dan Wesson Revolvers, two different TC Contenders (10" & 14") and have loaded for a 16" AR-15 in 357 AR Max.

I have fired lots of full power 160, 180 and 200 gr powder coated plain base boolits with good accuracy and Zero leading.

Starting out my alloy was mostly wheel weights and was pretty hard. However, I ran out of the hard stuff shortly after I started using PC. Most of my boolits for the above have been more of a "medium hardness" range scrap.

My current go to powder is a milsurp, Wc 680. I bought a few 8# jugs and have a good stash of this stuff. If milsurp had not been available, I probably would have ended up using Shooters World Heavy Pistol which is nearly identical to AA 9 but typically costs less. Alliant 300-MP, Shooters World Socom and Blackout are probably all good powders for the Max but are limited by available load data. Other brands seemed to want more $$$ for their powders than I wanted to pay.

I used 296 / H110 for decades, but eventually lost confidence in the powder. Lil gun is another powder I want nothing to do with.

Thank you for the input, you guys are making me feel a lot better about this! I m getting ready to pull out me Christmas color powder coat I got from a gentleman on here!

[hc18flyer]

I have been happy with Accurate 1680 for my full house .357 Max rifle loads. I just started powder coating, I am curious how fast I can push a pb powder coated bullet? Interested in your progress? hc18flyer

[JDUBS]

I have been happy with Accurate 1680 for my full house .357 Max rifle loads. I just started powder coating, I am curious how fast I can push a pb powder coated bullet? Interested in your progress? hc18flyer

i will definitely share results once i get everything together!

[quilbilly]

It has been my experience with my 357 max carbine that doing full house loads caused a very unpleasant vibration (not recoil) when fired. It could be due to the light weight of the single shot or the type of T/C Custom Shop (now out of business) barrel. If I backed off on loads to around 1600 fps with either 158 or 200 gr GC boolits, that vibration went away. My own terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards showed not much was lost as far as hunting deer size game was concerned. Similar terminal tests with the 190 gr. plain base boolits at 1370 fps also showed again that expansion and penetration were more than adequate out to 100+ yards for deer and average (under 300#) black bear found around here. The only real loss with the lower velocities for the plain base boolits was trajectory. I use iron sights on the 357 max and my old eyes won't get much of a sight picture beyond 125 yards anyway. My "plinker" and small game boolit for both the 357 max carbine and Ruger 77/357 is the Lee 125 gr RF-pb also at 1320 fps using Bullseye powder. It is "minute-of pop-can" out to 150 yards and makes a satisfying thump on local marauding, mangy coyotes.

[JDUBS]

It has been my experience with my 357 max carbine that doing full house loads caused a very unpleasant vibration (not recoil) when fired. It could be due to the light weight of the single shot or the type of T/C Custom Shop (now out of business) barrel. If I backed off on loads to around 1600 fps with either 158 or 200 gr GC boolits, that vibration went away. My own terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards showed not much was lost as far as hunting deer size game was concerned. Similar terminal tests with the 190 gr. plain base boolits at 1370 fps also showed again that expansion and penetration were more than adequate out to 100+ yards for deer and average (under 300#) black bear found around here. The only real loss with the lower velocities for the plain base boolits was trajectory. I use iron sights on the 357 max and my old eyes won't get much of a sight picture beyond 125 yards anyway. My "plinker" and small game boolit for both the 357 max carbine and Ruger 77/357 is the Lee 125 gr RF-pb also at 1320 fps using Bullseye powder. It is "minute-of pop-can" out to 150 yards and makes a satisfying thump on local marauding, mangy coyotes.

That is some excellent information thank you so much for sharing that. It's good to know I don't need to go full max on these to take deer size game consistently. I just cast and PC some boolits, now I just have to track down some primers and powder!307120

[Beerd]

are you sure that those are plain base bullets?
..

[JDUBS]

I believe so because when I look at the schematic this bullet does not have the gas check shape that the bullet in the gas check schematic has there is no cut out where a gas check fits so I believe this is plain base. I could be wrong but there's not an area milled out for the gas check Like on the gas check version and the actual mold itself does not have GC stamped on it

307123

[Beerd]

look close at the drawings in your first post.
try a gas check on an as-cast bullet and see if it will fit.
..

[JDUBS]

look close at the drawings in your first post.
try a gas check on an as-cast bullet and see if it will fit.
..
I see what you mean. The tumble lube grooves are on the schematic as .359, and the base of the actual bullet if I look closer seem to be even less than that. The GC schematic shows a .343 and a .340 graduation at the base. The schematic for the plain base shows the base being even with the tumble lube grooves. I don't have any .340 gas checks but I'm going to get my calipers on it! I'll let you know!! The lube grooves definitely seem to be protruding out further than my base!

[475AR]

oh wow, didnt know those were a thing. Since these boolits are cast 359, would I size to 358, then add PBGC and size to 357 to crimp them on?
When I use pb gas checks, I use the NOE bullet size die and pop on the pbgc by hand then run it nose down/bullet base up (for hard cast) or nose up if softer cast bullets) to size and fully seat the pbgc. As suggested I would size to .358"/.359" or the largest diameter that will chamber in your gun.
Also from the looks of the bullet you showed above it may be a true gc shank bullet. I would measure the base to be 100% sure that the base band is/isn't the same diameter as the other bands.if it is then it is a plain base bullet, if it isn't then it is a gc shank design.

[JDUBS]

My eyes have deceived me. My calipers are showing .340 at the very base! I thought the GC groove would be much more obvious, but in fact it's very subtle! Time to order some checks!

[Beerd]

try shooting those green ones un-checked anyway.
you may be surprised.
..

[P Flados]

I agree you should try some without checks. My Lee 200 did fine without checks.

[JDUBS]

try shooting those green ones un-checked anyway.
you may be surprised.
..

I definitely will be, ill probably do that first to see what I can get away with. one last reloading supply on my list these days will definitely be good!

[Hanzy4200]

Interesting thread. I had the bright idea to get a Blackhawk in Maximum, and a 190 gr Accurate mold. Never followed through and developed a load for it. It's sitting in the "when I'm old and bored" pile.