Minie Ball, Act One, Scene One

[armoredman]

I mentioned to everyone here that I cast up some of the Lee 410gr .533 Minie Balls, incidentally the first time I had gotten my lead pot working since the divorce and move. It took some time to knock the rust of the pot and me, but I got a few.

https://i.imgur.com/bKy8Lwb.jpg

Yes, none of them look really great, but I consoled myself that the ones cast around firepits during The War Between The States probably didn't look all that much better!

So, after some adventures in mundane activity, (I tweaked my ankle doing laundry. How stupid is that?), we finally made it out to the firing line!

https://i.imgur.com/jLapOGc.jpg

Da Boys customized left handed Kit Carson ready to go.

https://i.imgur.com/RQh0W9I.jpg

My T/C Renegade with sling.

https://i.imgur.com/JX6ERFg.jpg

Note - NONE of the pics are of me. Why? Nobody took pictures of me shooting. Simple enough.

So, let's get started. Clearing caps fired, and loading up with the 78/100 FFG powder from a great buddy. First load of 60 grains, or roughly 45 grains of regular powder. Why? We really didn't have a clear starting point, so that seemed like a good one. BTW, LOADING these things was unreal - with a generous helping of Bore Butter they literally slid down inside the bore. Only two between the two of us needed any help. I saw that paper patching idea, might do that next time. That Bore Butter is some weird grease...

https://i.imgur.com/KOTHynU.jpg

Um...oops...

https://i.imgur.com/uo45yCr.jpg

Is rifle? Is not rifle...

https://i.imgur.com/RX1r0qo.jpg

Well, it seems that the boolit drop at 50 yards with that powder equivalent was...astounding. I did a dead center hold on the target and the boollit dropped right at the target's feet. Might need to bring that up a skosh. OK, so 70 grains.

https://i.imgur.com/PNSNWgJ.jpg

A HIT!

https://i.imgur.com/W8yMvbH.jpg

That would be great if it was the start of something wonderful and grand...but alas, it was not. We switched off, he fired one, I fired one, and between the two of us we fired ten slugs before calling it a day. We hit the target once. I tried playing with my adjustable sights and Da Boy tried adjusting the charge, from 70 t 80 and back. I was consistently over the top, so it's not the powder charge this time. No problem, I have the paper target stand, we'll just put up some paper at 25 yards and...I forgot the backing. Double whops. I blame it on my laundry ankle. I consoled myself with some shots from a 4 inch Smith...and hit the steel 5 out of 6 times with iron sights at 50 yards...gee, what does THAT say?
Like I told the kid - a bad day at the range beats a GREAT day at work, and he enthusiastically agreed. Hah, what does HE know about work? Hah, I say. But we both have that fighting spirit, and we will come back down and we will make this work.
BTW, so how DO you paper patch...?

Say tuned for "Act One, Scene Two", or, "Big Honking Boolit Misses Steel Again!":lol:

[LAGS]

Idaho Ron has You tube videos on paper patching.
Look them up.

[armoredman]

Cool. thank you!

[725]

yeah, if they slid that easy, there was no way to do accuracy. I know your boy can shoot. I remember the last video. I never had any luck with that mold. I should have paper patched. I bet you'll be "on target" when you patch 'em up. Maybe even powder coat - ? -

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s a good idea to put a mark on your ramrod to know that the boolit has been seated at the very bottom of the bore. With fouling you can think you’ve rammed it all the way down when you haven’t. That can be dangerous.

[armoredman]

That's actually one thing we never ever take for granted - the rod always goes in regardless of whether it slid in or not, and always does the bullet bottomed out bounce before we go any further.
Yes, he can shoot, so we will try paper patching next time. On the other hand, any time shooting, even when we are learning, is fun. Thanks for all the good suggestions!

[dave951]

I shoot minies in Civil War competition shooter all the time. Ditch the bore butter. Try beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin added. Melt, dip lube the rings only.

Yeah, I think it might work, not like I haven't been experimenting a bit.....

307080

[Gtek]

"the rod always goes in regardless of whether it slid in or not, and always does the bullet bottomed out bounce before we go any further." Is this the procedure where one pulls the rod about half way up bore and then slings it down looking for a good bounce up off load? My father was taught and thought that this was the way, even as a small child it bothered me to watch. When older I brought one of those CO2 contraptions along one day and the old round ball was pushed out, been a while but I think I remember the word "WOW". Probably a brass non mating surface SLAMMED off center into the nose or radius of a soft lead projectile, distort, gouge, smear, rotational axis disortion, blah, blah, blah? A wooden ball was found and was drilled with two holes, one fit rod end and other was for the lanyard. Clean bore first push on clean rod, seat charge and mark with masking tape with about a wrap or two on muzzle line. hard core never going to change scribe a line, hard to beat a visual. Sorry if a rant, just a decades old (my) issue triggering topic but consistency is one of the chores required in the accuracy game.

[LAGS]

I agree with you Gtek about the Bouncing the rod damaging or Denting the projectal
But it does not make enough deformation for most shooting.
But you are right.
If you are trying to get consistant MOA accuracy.
Then mark your ramrod and press on the project Al slowly with consistant pressure down to the line.
But if you change your powder load or projectals , your line is only near your seating depth.
One bounce of the ramrod does not do much more damage to the projectals then seating the ball.
But I don't sit there and Bounce the ramrod several times like it is a slide hammer.
That will mush a seated Boolit nose or dent the ball.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

The Lee "improved" mini has a thicker skirt. You need a stout charge to open them up.

[omgb]

Minnies are tricky. Sometimes they work, and sometimes no. It helps to weigh them and to size them. It also helps to lube without Bore Butter. That stuff is OK for round balls but not really jake with Minnie balls. I use a mixture of bee's wax, lanolin and castor oil. I just dip the rings. It doesn't take much, and the stuff stays put until fired, even in hot weather. You may not get6 great accuracy with that TC. They usually have a 1/48 twist which is faster than a traditional Minnie twist. In the end, you will likely find that either RBs or the Maxie Ball shoot best in your gun. BTW, CW minnies were swaged not cast. Part was to speed production, but part was to avoid the dreaded "void". The English swaged entirely, and they had the best musket ammo of all.

[armoredman]

Interesting info so far. I don't really have the capability of making the mixes suggested here yet. I had a feeling we didn't have a heavy enough charge to blow her skirt out, will do that next time as well.
I do have to comment - we don't slam the rod down to make sure it's seated, just enough to make sure it is all the way down. We don't want to take the chance of ruining a seated ball, and I certainly don't want to take the chance of breaking that rod! :)

[indian joe]

Minnies are tricky. Sometimes they work, and sometimes no. It helps to weigh them and to size them. It also helps to lube without Bore Butter. That stuff is OK for round balls but not really jake with Minnie balls. I use a mixture of bee's wax, lanolin and castor oil. I just dip the rings. It doesn't take much, and the stuff stays put until fired, even in hot weather. You may not get6 great accuracy with that TC. They usually have a 1/48 twist which is faster than a traditional Minnie twist. In the end, you will likely find that either RBs or the Maxie Ball shoot best in your gun. BTW, CW minnies were swaged not cast. Part was to speed production, but part was to avoid the dreaded "void". The English swaged entirely, and they had the best musket ammo of all.

the 48 twist is just about ideal for that particular style of minie - we shot them in a 66 twist CVA years ago but needed a stompin powder charge and was not fun at all. Much more fun would be had and easier with a round ball I think.

[armoredman]

True, but I'd hate to waste the money on the mold...besides, would this be a good choice for deer?

[indian joe]

True, but I'd hate to waste the money on the mold...besides, would this be a good choice for deer?

yeah if you get it workin so you hit him --how much better than a round ball from the same gun is probably kinda academic tho??

[armoredman]

OK - I don't know. I haven't had a successful deer hunt yet.

[indian joe]

OK - I don't know. I haven't had a successful deer hunt yet.

I never shot them - we have kangaroos to keep our panel beaters in work - but I reckon either ball or minie from a 54 will likely go clear through anything short of an Elk

or maybe not ? if its 48" twist you proly cant push a ball as hard as in a slower twist (66" or 72")

[armoredman]

Hmm, is kanga good eatin'? :)

[GregLaROCHE]

Another reason marking the ramrod is it will give you a heads up if you dry balled or double charged it.

[indian joe]

Hmm, is kanga good eatin'? :)

city people eat em - taste goes toward lean beef

I used to take the back legs for dog food and often get these big white worms living in the major blood vessels - kinda put me off

[LAGS]

Did you cook the legs to feed to the dogs ?
And did you cook them as much as you would for people to eat .

[charlie b]

This looks like a perfect situation for a paper cartridge. Just use a longer piece of paper. Roll the bullet, twist the end and stuff it in the hollow base. At the other end add the powder. Twist the 'top' to contain it all. To load, tear off the top, dump the powder in the barrel. Insert the bullet. When just inside the bore rip off the extra paper. Ram bullet. Fire.

[Edward]

city people eat em - taste goes toward lean beef

I used to take the back legs for dog food and often get these big white worms living in the major blood vessels - kinda put me off

Reminds me of Mic Dundee sayin eatable but tastes like SHEET

[indian joe]

Did you cook the legs to feed to the dogs ?
And did you cook them as much as you would for people to eat .

nah fed em to dogs raw - all this needs a permit cuz they native -- one bloke got fined 10K for doin it - said if thats the price of a roo then I am gonna be a millionaire - just need to find some city slicker that will pay the price and he can have this place .

[Good Cheer]

armoredman,
Has big are those boolits?
Don't you need a bigger diameter minie?

[armoredman]

OK, so, after quite a while, I was able to get back to this. The holidays suck, BTW, just sayin'.
So LAGS very kindly made me some rolling rods, some premade tubes and some paper to make my own. I used the glue stick in my Guns of the West paper cartridge kit for my 44. NOW is the time for all experts to come share your words of wisdom as I step off into uncharted waters, but hold the wailing and gnashing of the teeth until I get my hearing protection on, OK? :shock:

First, the beeswax used was actually a 90% beeswax mix, from melting wax bullets gifted to me that I never got around to using. Yes, the stove top is a little dirty - I had no idea it would show up so bad, I do usually try to keep it clean. Just on the side, if anyone knows a GREAT cleaner for glass top stoves that will clean them sparling, now would be a good time to mention it. Oh, yes, the wife saw me doing this and as long as I clean up, I am good to go. I do most of the cooking anyway.

https://i.imgur.com/b1paYFz.jpg

Whilst that is melting, lets play with these tubes, shall we? There's one of the Minie balls.

https://i.imgur.com/RjVUdo8.jpg

Seven premade tubes from LAGS, all with balls seated point down, paper folded over.

https://i.imgur.com/RXvnhP4.jpg

Anyone feel like a swim?

https://i.imgur.com/7kGsB4k.jpg

DUNK!

https://i.imgur.com/l7XQMFR.jpg

Seven little cylinders.

https://i.imgur.com/F0ux8xO.jpg

Needs something - meet tonight's guest star!

https://i.imgur.com/j67fECH.jpg

Old friend set at 70 to start

https://i.imgur.com/ydMg0zc.jpg

Dump powder, twist paper - this does NOT seem that hard...must be doing something wrong. Note powder charge weight written on the side - no the top one does NOT say "infinity", it's sideways...

https://i.imgur.com/kpYo602.jpg

[armoredman]

So, I tried it with LAGS paper;

https://i.imgur.com/YsDbgNv.jpg

Say, while we're here, is THIS a paper patched boolit? Glued on and tail shoved in base.

https://i.imgur.com/wBhLkXo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jga8Bxj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BFHiGJ3.jpg

Or is it this, with no glue?

https://i.imgur.com/hBgGYpb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GsuntHg.jpg

In any case, I set these boolits so part of the lead itself caught the wax to hold it in place. These look REALLY weird.

https://i.imgur.com/lpjLyHY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AJWBAJG.jpg

So, there they are, ready to try out, MAYBE tomorrow if we're lucky.
Thoughts?

[LAGS]

Good work.
I am glad to see you playing with that stuff.
Now I need to give you some stuff to Nitrate that paper or those coffee filters that you are using.

[armoredman]

Amigo, you already did - my fault being too dadgum busy to nitrite the stuff the way it should be.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Might want to try hair curling papers, 2000 of them in a box for about 2.00 dollars. They burn completely and are remarkably tough. Been using them for the last year and really like them.

[armoredman]

Sooooo, that didn't go well. No, nothing wrong with the paper cartridge, or powder, or bullet, rifle, no, nothing like that...

The range was rented. The Dusty Bunch and the Gathering of the Posses had the entire place locked down for the whole weekend. I hate it when they do that because A) I can't use the only range within easy driving distance, and B) they fire so many rounds at steel targets that actual trenches are dug along the range.
Mildly annoying, but there is always next week.

[Edward]

I mentioned to everyone here that I cast up some of the Lee 410gr .533 Minie Balls, incidentally the first time I had gotten my lead pot working since the divorce and move. It took some time to knock the rust of the pot and me, but I got a few.

https://i.imgur.com/bKy8Lwb.jpg

Yes, none of them look really great, but I consoled myself that the ones cast around firepits during The War Between The States probably didn't look all that much better!

So, after some adventures in mundane activity, (I tweaked my ankle doing laundry. How stupid is that?), we finally made it out to the firing line!

https://i.imgur.com/jLapOGc.jpg

Da Boys customized left handed Kit Carson ready to go.

https://i.imgur.com/RQh0W9I.jpg

My T/C Renegade with sling.

https://i.imgur.com/JX6ERFg.jpg

Note - NONE of the pics are of me. Why? Nobody took pictures of me shooting. Simple enough.

So, let's get started. Clearing caps fired, and loading up with the 78/100 FFG powder from a great buddy. First load of 60 grains, or roughly 45 grains of regular powder. Why? We really didn't have a clear starting point, so that seemed like a good one. BTW, LOADING these things was unreal - with a generous helping of Bore Butter they literally slid down inside the bore. Only two between the two of us needed any help. I saw that paper patching idea, might do that next time. That Bore Butter is some weird grease...

https://i.imgur.com/KOTHynU.jpg

Um...oops...

https://i.imgur.com/uo45yCr.jpg

Is rifle? Is not rifle...

https://i.imgur.com/RX1r0qo.jpg

Well, it seems that the boolit drop at 50 yards with that powder equivalent was...astounding. I did a dead center hold on the target and the boollit dropped right at the target's feet. Might need to bring that up a skosh. OK, so 70 grains.

https://i.imgur.com/PNSNWgJ.jpg

A HIT!

https://i.imgur.com/W8yMvbH.jpg

That would be great if it was the start of something wonderful and grand...but alas, it was not. We switched off, he fired one, I fired one, and between the two of us we fired ten slugs before calling it a day. We hit the target once. I tried playing with my adjustable sights and Da Boy tried adjusting the charge, from 70 t 80 and back. I was consistently over the top, so it's not the powder charge this time. No problem, I have the paper target stand, we'll just put up some paper at 25 yards and...I forgot the backing. Double whops. I blame it on my laundry ankle. I consoled myself with some shots from a 4 inch Smith...and hit the steel 5 out of 6 times with iron sights at 50 yards...gee, what does THAT say?
Like I told the kid - a bad day at the range beats a GREAT day at work, and he enthusiastically agreed. Hah, what does HE know about work? Hah, I say. But we both have that fighting spirit, and we will come back down and we will make this work.
BTW, so how DO you paper patch...?

Say tuned for "Act One, Scene Two", or, "Big Honking Boolit Misses Steel Again!":lol:

I gave that mold away couldn't hit the side of a barn locked inside/Ed

[armoredman]

That's why we are experimenting - I hate to waste a mold if I can make it work. On the other hand, what Minie ball mold did you get to work in your rifle?

[rickt300]

I have a 542622 Lyman mold that has been an easy to load, shoot and gives good accuracy. Been thinking about trying it powder coated to get rid of the mess grease makes.

[LAGS]

The PC will keep the lead from sticking to the barrel.
But the Lube helps keep the powder fouling from getting hard and building up.
But if you swab the barrel between shots , the PC Boolits will work good

[armoredman]

Nifty idea

[dave951]

I experimented quite a bit with PC on minies and the end result- no change in accuracy, not worth the time and expense. The minie was designed to work in a certain power range with a moderate charge and so long as you're in that range, it will work just fine without the need for PC. Lube, bullet sizing, and type/amount of powder are far, far more important.

FWIW, I have yet to find a Lee minie that shoots well out of my competition guns other than the discontinued "trashcan" style and it's not like I haven't tried.

100yd group Parker Hale Enfield musketoon. RCBS Hogdon minie
310774

Our team was on Position 59 at Nationals this time. The firing line goes up to Position 70.
310775