327 Federal penetration tests

[Ramjet-SS]

The gun is a Smith and Wesson K frame converted 32 H&R to 327 Federal Magnum.
6” Barrel

Test media is water soaked catalogs and news paper soaked for 24hours.

Distance was 25feet Chronograph was setup at 10 feet from the muzzle.

Bullets used;
120 Grain HP from a Mihec mould gas checked and loaded over WW296
Factory Speer GoldDot 100 grain.
Hand loaded Swift A-Frame 100 grain
Dynamic Technologies sintered bullet hand loaded.

Velocity of each

Cast 120 grain HP GC = 1275 FPS
factory 100 grain GoldDot = 1535 FPS
Swift A-Frame 100 grain Handload = 1487 FPS
DRT sintered handload = 1758 FPS

Penetration;
Cast 120 Grain Handload= 18” (stopped in the water jug after the wet news print)
Factory Gold Dot = 14” stopped in wet news print.
Swift A-Frame = 15” stopped in wet news print,
Sintered DRT = 4”

Impressions;
120 grain cast HPGC - Straightline penetration really good disruption of the media with a wound channel that was obvious and tapered nicely. The pedals came off the wad cutter continued to disrupt and do damage. This boolit would without hitting any major bone and broadside shot pass through a deer. Real happy with this boolit and do believe with AA#9 I can get another 75-100 FPS.

Factory GoldDot - really opened up and caused damage starting at about 3” in and then tapered off with straight line penetration. Good defensive round as over penetration is not likely. But I would not use this on deer in a handgun maybe the Henry rifle though that extra velocity would do some serious damage.

Hand loaded Swift A-Frame - Did some serious disruption of the media and maybe more than the cast that might be the 200 FPS velocity edge it had. But like the cast the bonded rear half of the bullet drove deep and straight. The mess it caused was really impressive. My guess this bullet would pass through barring any heavy bone being hit. It would really be dandy bullet from a rifle in 327.

DRT sintered bullet- the velocity king but this bullet self destructed immediately and very poor penetration. Shoulder hit on an animal you would have nasty flesh wound and a long day tracking.

My pick; 120 grain cast HP then the Swift the cast edged out the Swift in penetration and driven faster would be great little gun for under 100 yard varmints and deer. With the revolver I will limit my shots to around 50 yards.
307007307008

[cwlongshot]

I have a 135g made For the Ruger S7 Its a good shooter and its wide meplat @ 1150 is devastating.

I have a MP 140 thats a dandy in my 32/20 but too long for my 327's. (Ruger Single Sevens)

CW

[Rapidrob]

Nothing like having a revolver that will shoot at least four .32 caliber cartridges and perhaps a few more. The .327 Magnum is what it should have been decades ago.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have a 135g made For the Ruger S7 Its a good shooter and its wide meplat @ 1150 is devastating.

I have a MP 140 thats a dandy in my 32/20 but too long for my 327's. (Ruger Single Sevens)

CW

I am certainly a Wide Flat nose fan who made that mould for you?

Gas checked or plain base?

I am seeking out one of the Henry 327 lever guns but I also dropped a suggestion for them to make one in that dandy little single shot….

That Ruger Single 7 is another on my list of wants and needs.

[Ramjet-SS]

Yea I have bunch of 32 H&R made up but honestly rather just shoot the 327.

But agreed it’s versatile.

[RJM52]

Thanks for posting the results of your tests... Have you ever tried the penetration test on the cast bullet as a solid?

I think I have that same mold...

Bob

[Ramjet-SS]

Only HP at this juncture but that test is great suggestion and I most definitely will cast a bunch up and probably Powdercoat them. Most likely plumbers lead printers lead 40/60

[Green Frog]

A little OT, but when I first started shooting my 327s I was amazed when I shot a round of Federal's HST self defense ammo (half jacket, hollow point with little peg sticking up in the bottom of the HP) into a two liter bottle refilled with water and at a distance of about 15 yds. Upon being hit, the bottle jumped into the air, rupturing and spreading water everywhere. What was amazing? When I picked up the bottle to throw away it rattled. That bullet had shed all of its energy in the bottle, peeled open perfectly round to about double its original diameter, and was sitting there waiting to be plucked out of the destroyed bottle. No over penetration there! :bigsmyl2:
Froggie

[megasupermagnum]

That cast bullet isn't too bad, but that Golddot sure looks like the shining star in this test to me. They really are a great round for the 327. I never got to try the 115gr version, but the 100gr is great. Another one to try is the Federal American Eagle 100gr. That one performs really good from these longer barreled revolvers.

Your cast bullets could be improved, those are definitely cast of much too brittle an alloy. With that long a nose on them, you can definitely up the powder charge too. Cast those of a 16:1 alloy, and send them 1500 fps and you would likely beat any jacketed bullet both in penetration and wound.

[Ramjet-SS]

A little OT, but when I first started shooting my 327s I was amazed when I shot a round of Federal's HST self defense ammo (half jacket, hollow point with little peg sticking up in the bottom of the HP) into a two liter bottle refilled with water and at a distance of about 15 yds. Upon being hit, the bottle jumped into the air, rupturing and spreading water everywhere. What was amazing? When I picked up the bottle to throw away it rattled. That bullet had shed all of its energy in the bottle, peeled open perfectly round to about double its original diameter, and was sitting there waiting to be plucked out of the destroyed bottle. No over penetration there! :bigsmyl2:
Froggie

That’s interesting after these tests I shot a 1-gallon jug of water with the Swift A Frame it blew the water bottle up a kept going through 12” of wet news print looked like the first sample.

[Ramjet-SS]

That cast bullet isn't too bad, but that Golddot sure looks like the shining star in this test to me. They really are a great round for the 327. I never got to try the 115gr version, but the 100gr is great. Another one to try is the Federal American Eagle 100gr. That one performs really good from these longer barreled revolvers.

Your cast bullets could be improved, those are definitely cast of much too brittle an alloy. With that long a nose on them, you can definitely up the powder charge too. Cast those of a 16:1 alloy, and send them 1500 fps and you would likely beat any jacketed bullet both in penetration and wound.

The high pressure of the 327 would dictate a harder alloy wouldn’t it. I get no leading with these and certainly could make them a flat point which would disrupt more tissue. Especially if I can get another 150-200 FPS with it. Yea the gold dot definitely mushroomed nicely but 12” of penetration is a little to short for an exit wound on deer. I want two holes for blood to flow out of.

[megasupermagnum]

You wrote 14" for the Gold Dot with huge expansion. 15" for the A frame, with minor expansion in your first post. How much penetration you need is up to you. I don't think there is any reliable formula, but generally wet news print to ballistic gel penetration is 1.5x. Even if it was a typo, and you got 12", that's about 18" in ballistic gel. That's inline with Lucky Gunner's testing, which found 17.6" penetration in gel, and that was with a 4" going only 1371 fps. I'd say you must be in that 18"-20" range, and personally from what I've seen I think you will get an exit on deer with that most of the time.

Again, that is completely up to you. I've never shot a deer with that gold dot load, maybe one day. I have shot a bullet similar to your cast as a solid through a deer. Mine was a 139gr solid, so a little heavier but not by a ton. I casted it of 20:1 alloy and that particular load was around 1250 fps from my 5" GP100. I shot a young buck at about 30 yards frontal shot on the first shot. I got both lungs, probably liver/stomach/intestine, exited the front of the back offside leg. That is extreme penetration. I can't say for sure if it expanded or not, but I'm guessing it wasn't a ton. I think I called that thread "327 federal deer #3" or something close to that.

The point is you can definitely use softer alloy. That was 20:1 with a plain base bullet, and it shot very good, that was with H110. A gas check bullet such as yours will definitely help with your lighter bullet as you get up in velocity. Gas checks are helpful regardless. 20:1 alloy has been working good for me, and has resulted in 4 dead deer. 16:1 or even 10:1 would be the ideal alloys for what you want to do, hollow point or solid. My other bullet is a larger hollow point, it is about 149gr solid, 143gr hollow point. That one is a really good bullet, but it is quite a bit different from what you are shooting. It is an amazing shooter in my Henry Rifle, again with 20:1 alloy. The only deer I shot with that rifle, the bullet came out at 1650 fps. I was quite impressed with the wound channel. That thread should be "327 federal deer #4".

[Kosh75287]

RAMJET-SS, that's one of the nicest-looking revolvers I've seen in a very long time! Just Beautiful!

[Ramjet-SS]

RAMJET-SS, that's one of the nicest-looking revolvers I've seen in a very long time! Just Beautiful!

Thank you

[Ramjet-SS]

You wrote 14" for the Gold Dot with huge expansion. 15" for the A frame, with minor expansion in your first post. How much penetration you need is up to you. I don't think there is any reliable formula, but generally wet news print to ballistic gel penetration is 1.5x. Even if it was a typo, and you got 12", that's about 18" in ballistic gel. That's inline with Lucky Gunner's testing, which found 17.6" penetration in gel, and that was with a 4" going only 1371 fps. I'd say you must be in that 18"-20" range, and personally from what I've seen I think you will get an exit on deer with that most of the time.

Again, that is completely up to you. I've never shot a deer with that gold dot load, maybe one day. I have shot a bullet similar to your cast as a solid through a deer. Mine was a 139gr solid, so a little heavier but not by a ton. I casted it of 20:1 alloy and that particular load was around 1250 fps from my 5" GP100. I shot a young buck at about 30 yards frontal shot on the first shot. I got both lungs, probably liver/stomach/intestine, exited the front of the back offside leg. That is extreme penetration. I can't say for sure if it expanded or not, but I'm guessing it wasn't a ton. I think I called that thread "327 federal deer #3" or something close to that.

The point is you can definitely use softer alloy. That was 20:1 with a plain base bullet, and it shot very good, that was with H110. A gas check bullet such as yours will definitely help with your lighter bullet as you get up in velocity. Gas checks are helpful regardless. 20:1 alloy has been working good for me, and has resulted in 4 dead deer. 16:1 or even 10:1 would be the ideal alloys for what you want to do, hollow point or solid. My other bullet is a larger hollow point, it is about 149gr solid, 143gr hollow point. That one is a reallyt good bullet, but it is quite a bit different from what you are shooting. It is an amazing shooter in my Henry Rifle, again with 20:1 alloy. The only deer I shot with that rifle, the bullet came out at 1650 fps. I was quite impressed with the wound channel. That thread should be "327 federal deer #4".

I absolutely understand and my analysis is comparing verified performers that I have tested in wet news print and used on deer. If that is a 1.5 times for gel then I agree.

As far as the alloy I can certainly agree with that as well. Plus I will be doing powder coating going forward. I also have some different pins for the hollow point. We will see season is tomorrow the 327 will be with me. It will be limited to 30-40 yard shots as I will Lao have my Henry New Original 45 Colt with me to.

I don’t have allot of the GoldDot ammo so I am frugal as it’s hard to come by.

I will be doing allot of casting this winter and will play with the alloy and check hardness and do more tests. I am hoping I can wrangle a rifle as well.

Thanks for the feedback

[megasupermagnum]

I think you will be served just fine with that load. Good luck tomorrow. I'll be out too as it is our rifle opener as well. I'm probably not going to be using cast though. I already got two meat deer, and now I'm after a trophy. I'll be out with the 3 o hate and a jacketed bullet. You never know though, every time I say that a buck ends up coming in close at an odd angle. I'll be carrying my 41 magnum with cast bullets.

[sixshot]

CW, I've shot that same 135 gr HP at about 1500 fps from my 8 shot Blackhawk & also from my Buckeye in 32/20 & it is a Rock Chucks worst nightmare. Also took a Utah antelope at 74 yds with complete penetration using the same bullet. Antelope was laying down at the shot, jumped up & ran about 15 yds & down, fun stuff. One of Bobby Tylers gunsmiths killed a Rock Chuck at 182 yds with the Buckeye 32/20 with a scope on it, impressive shot. First shot went over because of my range calling, second shot was a home run.

Dick

[cwlongshot]

Good stuff Dick!!

CW

[Mk42gunner]

And once again, I am kicking myself for not buying a few of those S&W's when they were on their gun of the week program.

Of course back then I wasn't all that interested in ,32 cal handguns. Youth is wasted on the young.

Robert

[Green Frog]

And once again, I am kicking myself for not buying a few of those S&W's when they were on their gun of the week program.

Of course back then I wasn't all that interested in ,32 cal handguns. Youth is wasted on the young.

Robert

Back in about the late Seventies I had a chance to buy what was probably a Model 16-3 for a price at or perhaps a little less than MSRP. Of course I took the position then of “Why would I want that?” As my PA Dutch forebears would observe, “Ve grow too soon oldt, und too late schmardt!” Of course if I had bought it way back then, I wouldn’t have been able to resist trading it when the next shiny thing came along.

Froggie

[Happyguy]

May I ask who did the conversion on your revolver?

[Green Frog]

May I ask who did the conversion on your revolver?

Who are you asking and which revolver? I had a Model 66 S&W converted to 327 Fed Mag by Andy Horvath of Lagrange, OH. He has an excellent reputation but a fairly long waiting list if you want a complete build. The same can be said of Hamilton Bowen, but he only works on Rugers, no Smiths any more.

Froggie

[megasupermagnum]

...You never know though, every time I say that a buck ends up coming in close at an odd angle. I'll be carrying my 41 magnum with cast bullets.

Sure enough, I set up saturday and could see about 1/2 mile in every direction. two does and a decent buck came right up the ravine towards me. When he crested the hill he was 30 yards away, and about 3 seconds from getting a 41 magnum to the lungs. He noticed the does were on the right side of me and turned straight in front of the rifle, so he got a 308 instead.

[Ramjet-SS]

Sure enough, I set up saturday and could see about 1/2 mile in every direction. two does and a decent buck came right up the ravine towards me. When he crested the hill he was 30 yards away, and about 3 seconds from getting a 41 magnum to the lungs. He noticed the does were on the right side of me and turned straight in front of the rifle, so he got a 308 instead.

Delicious venison.

I had several does no horns and few guys who think they are Davey Crocket and can sneak up on deer…..:smile:

[megasupermagnum]

Are you waiting for a buck? I don't know how the weather has been there, but with this slight warm up I'm guessing this will be a good week.

[Ramjet-SS]

Are you waiting for a buck? I don't know how the weather has been there, but with this slight warm up I'm guessing this will be a good week.snow and cold our rut is done it was fast and intense and the waiting in buck is because does tags are limited. The libs protected the wolves again and the population is out of control killing allot of deer and reducing the deer population. Plus our DNR a is inept and does not know how to manage resources becuase their is to much political influence. The woods turns yellow with tons of corn for 9-days. Next week is muzzle loader and that like having a party and not inviting anyone. But my week to get meat on the table.

[RJM52]

This year I took the advise of I believe sixshot who aid if you want to shoot a deer with a handgun...don't bring a rifle...

I leave for Pennsylvania Friday morning...only two .41s are going with me... A custom Gary Reeder 5.5" Ultimate .41 Hunter and a Freedom Arms 83 with 4.75" barrel. Went to the range this morning to do the final check on the ammo...9.0 grains of UNIQUE one load with a MP Keith 211 grain HP and the other the last of my stash of 220 grain Speer JSWC-Ps... Both are just over 1200 fps from the guns brought....1180 from a 4" S&W 57.

[Ramjet-SS]

This year I took the advise of I believe sixshot who aid if you want to shoot a deer with a handgun...don't bring a rifle...

I leave for Pennsylvania Friday morning...only two .41s are going with me... A custom Gary Reeder 5.5" Ultimate .41 Hunter and a Freedom Arms 83 with 4.75" barrel. Went to the range this morning to do the final check on the ammo...9.0 grains of UNIQUE one load with a MP Keith 211 grain HP and the other the last of my stash of 220 grain Speer JSWC-Ps... Both are just over 1200 fps from the guns brought....1180 from a 4" S&W 57.

That’s sound advice and your loads above are looking good. Good luck

[megasupermagnum]

I'm in no position to argue with sixshot, but I think you may have taken that out of context. I've hunted with only a handgun before, and yes I killed with that handgun. That said, I've killed far more with a handgun when I also had another gun. Sometimes that rifle in the lap puts you in a better position to be using the handgun, than if you had only had the handgun. On the other hand, this is for ambush hunting. If you are doing spot and stalk, then I guess his advice only makes sense.

[Ramjet-SS]

I'm in no position to argue with sixshot, but I think you may have taken that out of context. I've hunted with only a handgun before, and yes I killed with that handgun. That said, I've killed far more with a handgun when I also had another gun. Sometimes that rifle in the lap puts you in a better position to be using the handgun, than if you had only had the handgun. On the other hand, this is for ambush hunting. If you are doing spot and stalk, then I guess his advice only makes sense.

I hunt with both at times and with only one or the other sometimes. However I always carry a handgun daily. As you say the situation dictates the lineup….

[RJM52]

I usually have a handgun with me when rifle hunting but it is often just a .22....

Was talking to CWlongshot yesterday about this. He said one time he was in a stand with a .308 and a handgun... .44 or .45. Nice buck..40 yards out...took it with the rifle and then had to ask himself why he didn't make the shot with the handgun...

Where I hunt the longest shot I've had is 125 yards...all the others were under 75 except one followup shot at 90. None of my friends have shot over 75 either...

[Ramjet-SS]

My shots are close 25-100 yards max but it’s thick so one must pick your shot through the opening between twigs and brush. I carry both short shot handgun small window might be either.