Sabot vs Lee R.E.A.L

[Jevyod]

Please go easy on me here, only shot a Muzzleloader this year a few times. Decided that I like guns more than bows, will likely sell my crossbow and buy a Muzzleloader. I am in PA, the early season allows use of an inline, that is the route I am planning on going. I do cast, have some wheel weight lead, and will likely cast for the muzzleloader. Is there any real advantage of Sabot vs the REAL bullet? I am thinking of getting the harvester crush rib sabots, and casting a Lee 452-300 RF to shoot. I hear the crush rib sabots are easier to load? Anyway, if I go that route I am assuming lead composition is not that critical? Maybe 50/50 COWW pure?
Seems to me like the R.E.A.L would be harder to load, plus I am assuming you need some sort of lube on the bullet?
Where I hunt, all shots will be within 100 yards.

[cwlongshot]

Always cast BO bullets as close to pure lead as possible. (For preformance on game)

No it wont "hurt" using harder but you may find much difficulty loading.

I like those crush rib sabots I like the 300g Ranch Dog 45 and the Lyman 457122 bullets and 80g substitute BP. Shoots under 2" @ 100.

I got a 350 REAL mold this year but cannot shoot rifles till
Next year. (Wired chest) so cannot tell ya loading or accuracy.

Good luck

CW

[megasupermagnum]

No, the REAL is far easier to load. They zip right down with hardly any resistance. There are some members that claim good accuracy with them, so give them a try. Don't fret too much when they shoot really poor. Sabot's have two main problems. First they are expensive. Second, they have zero fouling control, which becomes an issue with repeat shot. Sabot's have a reputation for loading hard, which is not 100% true, but in general they need to load tight for them to be accurate. If you swab every single shot, use a bullet that isn't too big, then they don't load too hard. I've tried the crush rib sabot's, and they are high quality, but I couldn't notice any difference in how they loaded. There are two main advantages to a sabot. First is you can shoot a lighter bullet at higher velocity. Second your bullet alloy doesn't really matter. 50/50 COWW and pure lead should do just fine in this instance.

If you are interested in stretching out our effective range, don't limit yourself to those two. The ones shooting long range are mostly using a full bore conical. One member here even uses a paper patched Lee 501-440. If you are interested in buying bullets, No Excuses has a really good reputation for accuracy.

[BLAHUT]

A friend of mine shot both the Sabot's and the Lee REAL bullet, he liked the REAL, he lubed with Crisco, very accurate for him, loaded easy. Dropped deer like right now.
Not sure, I think he was using blackhorn209,with pure lead ? I use a minney ball in my 50 inline, hollow base, pure lead, over blackhorn209, very accurate, no fouling to speak of, with a mag primer, I make my own lube.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

If you have a fast twist you want the heaver REAL and keep speeds low and you should get good accuracy. You'll need a short starter but once it's in you'll find it loads smooth every time. Plastic sabots leave melted plastic in your barrel and become very hard to load after a few shots. YMMV.

[BamaNapper]

I spent last Saturday at the range trying out the REAL. I'm casting the 250 gr with pure lead, White Label lube, and a wad over 80 gr Pyrodex. At 100 yds I was consistently in a 4" group, with a rare flyer that was probably me. The previous outing had been with Hornady SST sabots. The sabots were obviously more accurate, but then the cost per projectile was probably 100 times as much. I tried round balls a few times over the summer, but regardless of the patch I chose, or the charge, the groups were terrible.

I'm impressed with the REAL and will probably order the larger mold. The 250 gr is fine for plinking, and the small deer here in AL don't need any more than that. Having the larger REAL would be just curiosity. As mentioned, the REAL does load easy. In my opinion it's the same effort as a sabot.

REAL: Almost free, decent accuracy, easy to load, have to mess with lube
Round ball: Almost free, questionable accuracy, a little harder to load.
Sabot & Bullet products: Expensive (up to $2/shot), best accuracy, no lube
Sabot & cast boolit: Affordable ($.50/shot), good accuracy, no lube

My choice for hunting: the Hornady 50 Cal SST-ML Speed Sabot. It's all about convenience. I can preassemble with Pyrodex pellets and even carry the primers in the package. All I have to carry to the woods is my jag, a 5-pack of sabots, and a little ziploc bag with a few patches. It all fits in my shirt pocket and reloading is FAST. They may be expensive but I'm probably not shooting more than a couple a season.

[LAGS]

I once had a TC .50 cal Hawken that I had a 2" section of barrel that I had cut off.
I would take the REAL slugs and pounded them thru the cut off section.
That put the grooves in the slug that matched the barrel.
It was easier to load since the grooves we're already there.
I also loaded a 1/4" lubed felt wad over the powder.
The loads seemed more accurate and they were easier and faster to load.
With the over powder wad , the barrel seemed to get less fouling.
I lubed and Grooved a bunch of slugs to take hunting or the range

[michael.birdsley]

I was shooting a lee .452-255-rf with black mmp sabots out of my triumph with 100 grains of triple 7. All I was using was straight wheel weights. Never had an opportunity to shoot a deer but, they were accurate as all get out I was shooting east 1.5-2.0 groups


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[quilbilly]

I have had good experiences with sabots using the MMP green sabots (50 cal to 429) and a 265 gr SWC. In my traditional sidelock with a 1/28 twist and using classic 3F Goex black powder, it has been awesumely effective on elk. I harvested a few deer with the same load with no problems but I do prefer PRB using other cap locks with different twists on deer. Since I cast my own SWC's, using sabots isn't that expensive since a bag of 50 MMP sabots is about $9. A bag of 50 goes a long way. As far as accuracy goes, I haven't ever used REAL boolits but my favorite "sabot" rifle gets 2" groups routinely at 100 yards using iron sights off a rest. In my rifle, I have found lubing the outside of the sabot to be helpful right before seating but getting any lube on the inside of the cup on the bottom has not been helpful.

[GregLaROCHE]

I once had a TC .50 cal Hawken that I had a 2" section of barrel that I had cut off.
I would take the REAL slugs and pounded them thru the cut off section.
That put the grooves in the slug that matched the barrel.
It was easier to load since the grooves we're already there.
I also loaded a 1/4" lubed felt wad over the powder.
The loads seemed more accurate and they were easier and faster to load.
With the over powder wad , the barrel seemed to get less fouling.
I lubed and Grooved a bunch of slugs to take hunting or the range

That’s an interesting idea to pre groove the boolits.

[charlie b]

Years ago when I hunted there was a speed loader I used that was also a bullet starter. Also had a waterproof place for the perc cap. Worked really well.

[LAGS]

GLR
I wish I still had a lathe.
If so , I would turn the outside of a barrel section and thread it to fit in my reloading press as a sizing die.
That would make grooving the slugs go faster and more consistent.

[Adam Helmer]

Jevyod,

Welcome to muzzleloading. I have about a dozen arms which includes two inlines while the others are flinters and caplocks. I suggest you buy and read the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook cover to cover to gain an understanding to help focus future questions.
Be well.
Adam

[omgb]

I have honestly fired several hundred rounds through my CVA inline. Round balls are ok to 25 yards for plinking. That's using a Hornady plastic RB cup. OK, on to serious hunting. I have fired Minnies, REALS, even Maxies, of that bunch, TC Maxie balls worked the best. As to sabots, I have used them all. I finally bought some "blank" sabots and filled them with cast bullets for the 44 mag. With 110 grains of BH209, I got 2" groups and 2065 fps. Recoil was a bear!. I have used T7, Pyrodex, BH209, GOEX 2f and 3f as well as Swiss 1.5 F and Schutzen 3F. If you use sabots and real black, you get two shots and then you need to clean. If you use T7 you get maybe 5 shots and then you need to wipe the crud ring. Pyrodex and all of the blacks require wiping after two shots with sabots...you are not using lube. Using the TC maxie, I use SPG. It works, even in the cold and is way neater to use than Crisco. I strongly recommend either BH209 whether or not you use a Maxie or a sabot. Those Maxies pack a serious punch and will load well for two loads without swabbing. Now BH209 requires a #209 primer and may require a special breach plug. In my CVA, I use the regular breach plug with zero issues. Here's the deal, for hunting, I would use real BP and the maxie. You aren't going to get more than two shots off anyway. For practice, use the BH209 as you literally can shoot for hours and not have a fouling issue. That's my experience based on a lot of shots and many years. I used to host a youth camp and we used BH209 for several years as it eliminated the fouling issue. But before that, I used BP so, whichever is easier to obtain.