Resizing 0.430" down to .424"

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Am looking to size a .430" bullet down to .424" Is that too much of a step? For example, should I do an intermediate step of 0.427"?

(Reason I ask is I can get .430 bullets easily but I don't have an area in the appartment block and communal garage where I live where I can cast lead boolits)

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[lotech]

I've never sized that much so don't know how well it would work, but an intermediate step would be a must to prevent excessively deforming the bullet.

[15meter]

Never tried it, I've read of it being done by lubing on the first sizing to normal diameter for the bullet to fill the grooves. I believe the theory is the lube supports the lube grooves so they don't collapse. Then go down in size.

If you've got the correct sized dies, give it a try and see if it works. You'll only be out a handful of boolits if it doesn't work.

Then keep the rest of us informed on the progress. Enquiring minds want to know!!!*


*Tag line from a bad American tabloid advertisement. You know the kind of tabloid---SEE THE THREE LEGGED FISH THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA MARRIED!!!!!

[Scrumbag]

This would be a pre bought and pre-lubed bullet. If I lose too much lube from the lube grove I shall Alox the bullet.

I've ordered the .424 and a .427 sizer so hopefully that will work without too much deformation if done in 2 stages.

Now I need to see what shape the bullets will be in post the sizing steps to check out options for gas checking...

Scrummy

Scrummy

[Sasquatch-1]

Personally, I think sizing down that much may completely wipe out your lube groves unless they are very deep. Even if already lubed. You may want to see if you can get dry bullets and powder coat when done sizing. I don't think you would have a big problem PC'ing in an apartment with a dedicated toaster oven. I do it in my basement. There are no unpleasant odors involved.

[Scrumbag]

Personally, I think sizing down that much may completely wipe out your lube groves unless they are very deep. Even if already lubed. You may want to see if you can get dry bullets and powder coat when done sizing. I don't think you would have a big problem PC'ing in an apartment with a dedicated toaster oven. I do it in my basement. There are no unpleasant odors involved.

You might well be right. This will decidedly be an incremental improvement process. I'm thinking PC might be the way to go especially as I'll have the sizing die to "die lump" what I'm sure will be my amateurish sizing efforts.

Still, sizers and 300gr .430" bullets have been ordered let's see where we get to. I am also wondering what shape the base is and whether we could get a gas check on there of some sort. Or maybe if powder coating could get away with out the gas check.

[dondiego]

Are you loading for a 43 Spanish?

[Scrumbag]

No, plinking load for the .404 Jeffery

[dondiego]

No, plinking load for the .404 Jeffery

Would it be better to start with a .41 mag bullet?

[Calamity Jake]

I've sized 8mm .325 down to .315 by lubing and gas checking in a .325 first then size to .315, boolit grew in length a little but other than that
no distortion

[Thumbcocker]

In one if the old Handloader annuals they sized boolits from .375 to .357. Not pretty but shot surprisingly well. Lube them first.

[GregLaROCHE]

You should be able to do it and best if you use an intermediate die. Are you planning to lube the boolits or PC them? You should expect to have the lube grooves greatly reduced in depth.

[BK7saum]

Would it be better to start with a .41 mag bullet?

Looks like .404 Jeffery takes a 0.422" inch jacketed bullet. 0.410 or 0.412 would be way too small to start with.

[muskeg13]

I've sized .338 down to .330 and .358 to .350 successfully. As mentioned, lube them first (with a thick wax lube to pack the grease grooves). This will assist in maintaining the grease grooves. Your idea for intermediate sizing will make things easier. You also may want to finger lube them with something viscous and slick like Imperial Sizing Lube at each stage before running them into the sizing dies. Take it slow and easy and everything will turn out OK.

[Scrumbag]

Thanks folks. I have the kit coming so will see what happens.

Scrummy

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Scrumbag,

I have sized .458 down to .452, the lube grooves became almost non existent.
I was using them in a sabot for a muzzle loader so I didn't really care.
I would suggest lubricating before attempting and maybe two steps.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Scrumbag]

Thanks AntiqueSledMan. I think a powder coat might be the way forward.

Scrummy

[swisscast]

I’m routinely sizing down .430 to .415 in order to get bullets for my single loader K31 chambered in 10.3x60R. For me this is working with bullets ranging in hardness from 8 to 19 HB using the following molds: Lee C430-310-RF, Lee C429-240-SWC, NOE 432-265-RF, NOE C432-265-RF, MP C434-215-SWC and MP C429-244-SWC. I’m starting with sizing all of these to .429 and placing a gas check where required using a Lee push through sizer. Then final sizing is done with a Lee .414 sizer opened up to .415. Using a good lube – lanolin (woolwax) in my case – is helping. Bullets w/o gas check go in base first, bullet with gas check tip first. Afterwards bullets are degreased and powder coated using the shake and bake method.

[Larry Gibson]

No, sizing those commercial bullets down .006" is not too much at all. The lube grooves will not be wiped away, especially if they already have lube in them. Sizing down to .427 then to .424 will be easy enough with push through sizers.

Here's a couple 8mm bullets sized down from .325" [what they were initially sized, lubed and GC'd to] to .314". That is sizing them down almost twice as much as you intend to do. I used to size them down to .314" and .316" for use in .31 cal cartridges before I got the size .31 cal moulds. They worked fine in long throated milsurp rifles.

You should have no problems at all sizing your bullets down for use in your .404 Jeffrey. A friend of mine sizes his cast 310 gr G'd 44 Magnum bullets initially sized, lubed and GC'd at .430" down to .424 for use in his .404 Jeffrey. They shoot great from 1100 fps up to 2300 fps.

306769

[dondiego]

Looks like .404 Jeffery takes a 0.422" inch jacketed bullet. 0.410 or 0.412 would be way too small to start with.

HA! For some odd reason I was thinking the bullet diameter was around 0.404 inches!

[Scrumbag]

Thanks Larry, good to know. Do you know if your buddy with the .404 would have any loads he's willing to share? Or if you would be kind enough to put me in touch with him, that would be very kind.

Planning on resizing this bullet down: https://shellhousecastings.com/new-products/300gr-44-rnfp-sized-to-430

306774

Wonder if it will be "Gas Checkable"

Also will see what happens with the lube groove post resizing.

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

HA! For some odd reason I was thinking the bullet diameter was around 0.404 inches!

You wouldn't be the first, nor I suspect the last ;)

[Scrumbag]

I’m routinely sizing down .430 to .415 in order to get bullets for my single loader K31 chambered in 10.3x60R. For me this is working with bullets ranging in hardness from 8 to 19 HB using the following molds: Lee C430-310-RF, Lee C429-240-SWC, NOE 432-265-RF, NOE C432-265-RF, MP C434-215-SWC and MP C429-244-SWC. I’m starting with sizing all of these to .429 and placing a gas check where required using a Lee push through sizer. Then final sizing is done with a Lee .414 sizer opened up to .415. Using a good lube – lanolin (woolwax) in my case – is helping. Bullets w/o gas check go in base first, bullet with gas check tip first. Afterwards bullets are degreased and powder coated using the shake and bake method.

Swisscast, could I ask you some questions about how you do the Shake and Bake method of powder coating with the products we can get here in Europe?

Many thanks,

Scrummy

[swisscast]

Scrummy, I’m in the fortunate situation that I can benefit from surplus of an old product no longer used for manufacturing at my workplace. It’s a commercial epoxy polyester hybrid powder coating, “POLYFLEX PES-50”’. The product was shipped in 25kg cardboard boxes, so my stock will last me forever. I shake my bullets in a PP container with PVC granules added and a spoon full of the coating powder – basically following what I have learned here. One coat is what I usually do, but to increase bullet diameter I have gone up to four. Curing is done as per instructions at 190°C/10'.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks Larry, good to know. Do you know if your buddy with the .404 would have any loads he's willing to share? Or if you would be kind enough to put me in touch with him, that would be very kind.

Planning on resizing this bullet down: https://shellhousecastings.com/new-products/300gr-44-rnfp-sized-to-430

306774

Wonder if it will be "Gas Checkable"

Also will see what happens with the lube groove post resizing.

Scrummy

You might have some problems with that bullet. I've found that style of bullet with one lube groove and a lot of alloy bearing sureface to lead in rifle barrels and many pistol barrels also. Being "hard cast" it will be difficult to GC w/o using GCs made for PB'd cast bullets. Even with those GCs, putting them on hard cast bullets can be difficult. However, if you can keep the leading down [suggest a coat of LLA be applied after sizing down] they should do well for plinking, small game loads in the 1000 to 1400 fps range.

Unfortunately, my old shooting/hunting compadre and good friend is suffering from Alzheimer's these days. Thus, any load data i got from him over the phone would probably be questionable and I would not be comfortable posting it.

I do know this though, he used Unique w/o a filler/wad for his 1100 fps load. He used 5744 w/dacron filler for an 1800 fps load. He used 4895 with a dacron filler for the 2300 fps load. Those were with a COWW + 2% tin WQ'd cast bullets [I'm pretty sure he was using the Lee C430-310-RF mould] that were GC'd w/sized down 44 cal GCs (he favored the older Lyman GCs for this) and lubed the bullets with an NRA 50/50 lube. He used a home made rod that the lubed (spray on case sizing lube) GCs slipped over upside down on the rod and was sized pushing it through the same sizer he used for sizing the bullets. I know this because some years back I helped him get set up to use those bullets and I suggested those powders which he used.

[Scrumbag]

Larry, thanks again for the above. Forgive my ignorance but LLA? (Lee Liquid Alox?)

[Scrumbag]

Scrummy, I’m in the fortunate situation that I can benefit from surplus of an old product no longer used for manufacturing at my workplace. It’s a commercial epoxy polyester hybrid powder coating, “POLYFLEX PES-50”’. The product was shipped in 25kg cardboard boxes, so my stock will last me forever. I shake my bullets in a PP container with PVC granules added and a spoon full of the coating powder – basically following what I have learned here. One coat is what I usually do, but to increase bullet diameter I have gone up to four. Curing is done as per instructions at 190°C/10'.

Very helpful, thank you!

[megasupermagnum]

That's not a lot at all. I've sized plenty of bullets that are as-cast .316" down to .311". Just put it in the sizer and pull the handle. That's all there is to it.

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, LLA is Lee Liquid Alox. Best to put a thin coat on and let dry thoroughly before loading. Doing so will avoid the stickiness many complain about.

[Scrumbag]

That's not a lot at all. I've sized plenty of bullets that are as-cast .316" down to .311". Just put it in the sizer and pull the handle. That's all there is to it.

Thanks very much

[Scrumbag]

Yes, LLA is Lee Liquid Alox. Best to put a thin coat on and let dry thoroughly before loading. Doing so will avoid the stickiness many complain about.

Thanks. I shall try and remember

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Thought I'd start a new thread on where I was getting to with my .404 Jeff cast boolit plinking load.

Please feel free to stop by and pass comments.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?449960-Developing-a-404-Jeffery-Cast-Bullet-Plinking-Practice-Load&p=5490646#post5490646