I want a new rifle

[michael.birdsley]

So I am currently in the market for a new rifle . I am looking for something to basically bunch paper with at the range and not tear my shoulder up. Aka my .450 At first I was thinking cheap plentiful ammo like a .223.

However, I would also like this rifle to double as deer rifle for my 5 year old daughter when she is ready down the road. She is small and petite 5 year. so I am assuming that she is going to be a smaller statue women in the future. So I’m worried about recoil. I’m not sure if we can use .223 in Michigan for deer. So far I’ve been thinking .243 , 6.5 creed more, what about the 7mm’s ?any other caliber I’m forgetting . We would probably be in the $700 and under category for rifles. Most hunting would be either in big woods or swamps. Obviously I can reload so finding ammo wouldn’t be a deal breaker


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[trails4u]

I went with 7mm-08 for my son....Savage Axis and it has served him well. I downloaded it when he was younger/smaller....and he still shoots it today at 21yo. MOA pretty much out of the box, and I think we were in it for under $300. I did do some trigger work on it....but that was a MCarbo kit that was really cheap.

[M-Tecs]

I’m not sure if we can use .223 in Michigan for deer.

I would go with the .223. With the proper bullets it gets the job done. She will enjoy shooting it more than the bigger calibers. Getting and keeping her interest is the most important part. When she is older and truly wants to deer hunt you can upgrade if you think it's needed.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/LED/digests/hunting_digest.pdf?rev=a74dc1a373224d08be9874d5ee0 a04f5

I am hunting during a firearm deer season in the limited firearm deer zone,
which equipment can I use?
In the limited firearm deer zone, all hunters afield from Nov. 15-30 and all deer
hunters in this zone during other deer seasons must abide by the following firearm
restrictions or use a crossbow or a bow and arrow. Legal firearms are as follows:
• A shotgun may have a smooth or rifled barrel and may be of any gauge.
• A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded with black
powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute.
• A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but
cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine
combined. Continued on page 50 
WHITE-TAILED DEER HUNTING
50 2022 Michigan Hunting Digest
• A firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow and arrow, crossbow and firearm.
Exception: See “Which equipment can I use during the muzzleloading deer
season?” below.
• A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80
inches.
• A .35-caliber or larger air rifle or pistol charged only from an external, highcompression power source.
I am hunting north of the limited firearm deer zone. Which equipment can I
use during firearm season?
Deer may be taken with handguns, rifles, crossbows, bows and arrows, shotguns,
and muzzleloading firearms, including black powder handguns. It is legal to hunt
deer north of the limited firearm deer zone with any caliber of firearm except a
.22-caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun). During the firearm deer seasons,
a firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow and arrow, crossbow and firearm.
Exception: See “Which equipment can I use during the muzzleloading deer
season?” below.

[Winger Ed.]

Tough choice.

You don't hear very much buyer's remorse about Rem. 700 ADLs or BDLs.
It'd be hard to go wrong with one in .243.
For your situation, it'll do everything you'd want it to do.

It goes against the trend of 'needing' the latest and greatest--
but a Marlin .30-30 lever action would do you well too if you 'have' to put a scope on your rifle.

[stubshaft]

A 44 Magnum rifle and she can shoot 44 specials out of it.

[michael.birdsley]

Tough choice.

You don't hear very much buyer's remorse about Rem. 700 ADLs or BDLs.
It'd be hard to go wrong with one in .243.
For your situation, it'll do everything you'd want it to do.

It goes against the trend of 'needing' the latest and greatest--
but a Marlin .30-30 lever action would do you well too if you 'have' to put a scope on your rifle.

I’m caught between a .223 and the .243. At this moment I’m leaning .243 but, that could change


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[dverna]

I would go with a .260 Rem or 7mm/08. Plenty of cheap brass from can be made from plentiful 7.62. You can load it down for now and increase power as she matures. Even in .308, it can be loaded down to work.

With a .223 you will be marginal for deer IMO.

[jonp]

I would not get her a 223 for anything other than learning how to shoot. A 6.5 Swede would do the job, 257 Roberts or as dverna suggested either a 260 or 7-08. I would lean towards the 7-08 if only because the brass can be made cheaply. You could reload the 308 down to where she can handle it but still take deer with it and then increase the loadings as she gets older and more experience again, as dverna suggested

[762 shooter]

At the risk of being pigeon holed as a man bun wearing sissy, I would suggest the 6.5 creedmoor.

Lower recoil, plentiful brass and bullets, great caliber, proven deer slayer.

My Bergara Ridge is a shooter.

762

[GhostHawk]

.357 mag, .44mag, 45 colt all would work if loaded correctly and used with caution at range.

I used to be a member of the small and fast club but apparently I have out grown it.

I would rather go big, slow and 3-6 grains of Red Dot that would go the long way through a Moose or buffalo.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have taken many deer with a 223.
Get a faster twist to stabilize the Nosler Defense 70 grain bonded. Barnes ammo is also effective. Lehigh Defense controlled chaos is also good.
A great choice is the Henry Single Shot
Practice practice practice you will do this with less expense with a 223 (If your state law allows)
The Henry is fine rifle very accurate and the single shot teaches patients and getting the right shot. It’s hefty enough that recoil of the 223 is like 22 Mag. But behind the shoulder shots with the bullets mentioned above anchor deer well. Not good for frontal shots but fine for quartering away into the vitals. Shot placement is first with all calibers and my kids all learned on .223 , 220 swift and 6.8 SPC

[pietro]

.

Looking at the above posted Michigan FAQ, it looks like bottle-neck cartridges are not allowed - Sooo, a .357 rifle should meet the law, give less recoil, and drop a deer (which i've done with a .357 Rossi M-92)

Here's the entire 2022 Michigan hunting regulation publication:

https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/LED/digests/hunting_digest.pdf?rev=a74dc1a373224d08be9874d5ee0 a04f5#:~:text=You%20must%20be%20at%20least,whereve r%20DNR%20licenses%20are%20sold.

[white eagle]

30-30 would be a good choice
don't know how you are in handloading but a 22 Creedmoor is quite capable and soft on the shoulder

[Winger Ed.]

I’m caught between a .223 and the .243. At this moment I’m leaning .243 but, that could change

Both are good.
For hunting, I'd figure whatever a .223 can do- a .243 can do better.
Over time, if you're going after larger game, you have less chance of 'out growing' the .243.

[michael.birdsley]

If I get a .223 it will just be a range gun and than get her something different later. .243 is the smallest I’d want to go for deer.


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[michael.birdsley]

.

Looking at the above posted Michigan FAQ, it looks like bottle-neck cartridges are not allowed - Sooo, a .357 rifle should meet the law, give less recoil, and drop a deer (which i've done with a .357 Rossi M-92)

Here's the entire 2022 Michigan hunting regulation publication:

https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/LED/digests/hunting_digest.pdf?rev=a74dc1a373224d08be9874d5ee0 a04f5#:~:text=You%20must%20be%20at%20least,whereve r%20DNR%20licenses%20are%20sold.

We can use bottle neck cartages in 2/3’s of the state. We can used certain straight walled cartages IE 357, .350, 41,44, .45, .450 and I believe the 500 S&w ( couples others I forgot) in the limited rifle zone ( what we used to call the shot gun zone). I live a mile north into the regular rifle zone.


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[michael.birdsley]

I have taken many deer with a 223.
Get a faster twist to stabilize the Nosler Defense 70 grain bonded. Barnes ammo is also effective. Lehigh Defense controlled chaos is also good.
A great choice is the Henry Single Shot
Practice practice practice you will do this with less expense with a 223 (If your state law allows)
The Henry is fine rifle very accurate and the single shot teaches patients and getting the right shot. It’s hefty enough that recoil of the 223 is like 22 Mag. But behind the shoulder shots with the bullets mentioned above anchor deer well. Not good for frontal shots but fine for quartering away into the vitals. Shot placement is first with all calibers and my kids all learned on .223 , 220 swift and 6.8 SPC

I’ve been looking at the Henry single shots. Hard to find but, they are out there. I’ve got a Henry .22 wmr.

Off gun broker i figure it’s going to be about $550 after shipping and fees.

I bought my RAR .450 6 months before Henry announced the single shot .450. I would have waited for the Henry if I had known about the release in 2019


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[Half Dog]

I’m also in favor of the 243. Components and brass seem obtainable.

[Texas by God]

All three of my children started with a .243 Winchester. It works on deer as well as anything else at normal ranges. If you can shoot straight. If you can’t, a bigger gun won’t help.
And the .223 will kill deer just fine, as well. Been there,done that. Will do it again probably.

[BLAHUT]

A .243 with the correct bullet for standard twist. Some will shoot the 90 gr+ with no trouble, some need to drop down to the 8-0 gr or lower ? I wish they came with a tad faster twist from the factory??
I would never give a young shooter or new shooter a lever gun !
With a lever gun you have to put your wet cold hand on the hammer and pull the trigger. IMO very un-safe for young or newbees ?
A Savage Youth model, in .243, bolt is perfect for small or young shooter's, can also use as a smaller adult.
Correct size for most to handle. Recoil is light and straight back. Bullets and brass are usually not hard to come by? Depending how you want to load ?
Great deer gun, varmint or can be loaded for competition ? Very accurate...... Son set 4 National Reckord's with a 6MM at 500 or 600 yds.

[Ramjet-SS]

I’ve been looking at the Henry single shots. Hard to find but, they are out there. I’ve got a Henry .22 wmr.

Off gun broker i figure it’s going to be about $550 after shipping and fees.

I bought my RAR .450 6 months before Henry announced the single shot .450. I would have waited for the Henry if I had known about the release in 2019


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So if you want to find a Henry single shot send Henry and email. If they have a distributor that has one they will get it allocated for you. They are as responsive as inventory allows them. They really helped me out with a Long Ranger .223.
But folks talking about the 357 Mag are not that far off 38 specials for practice and XTP or A varsity if others like the 140 grain Barnes or well loaded WFN Cast boolit will do the trick. It won’t kick anymore than a .243.

[Ramjet-SS]

A .243 with the correct bullet for standard twist. Some will shoot the 90 gr+ with no trouble, some need to drop down to the 8-0 gr or lower ? I wish they came with a tad faster twist from the factory??
I would never give a young shooter or new shooter a lever gun !
With a lever gun you have to put your wet cold hand on the hammer and pull the trigger. IMO very un-safe for young or newbees ?
A Savage Youth model, in .243, bolt is perfect for small or young shooter's, can also use as a smaller adult.
Correct size for most to handle. Recoil is light and straight back. Bullets and brass are usually not hard to come by? Depending how you want to load ?
Great deer gun, varmint or can be loaded for competition ? Very accurate...... Son set 4 National Reckord's with a 6MM at 500 or 600 yds.

I complete disagree with your analogy about cocking the hammer on a lever gun. Or even a single shot it’s all we did and even today the ONLY reason lever guns have safeties is LAWYERS. Spend time with the youth teach them how to safely handle and OWN the firearm. You cannot bubble wrap everything and protect everyone. Time and teaching is the key.

Single shots and lever guns both can fill this requirement for example how about the Henry Long Ranger or Browning BLR single-shots are economical and well built today.

[white eagle]

A .243 with the correct bullet for standard twist. Some will shoot the 90 gr+ with no trouble, some need to drop down to the 8-0 gr or lower ? I wish they came with a tad faster twist from the factory??
I would never give a young shooter or new shooter a lever gun !
With a lever gun you have to put your wet cold hand on the hammer and pull the trigger. IMO very un-safe for young or newbees ?
A Savage Youth model, in .243, bolt is perfect for small or young shooter's, can also use as a smaller adult.
Correct size for most to handle. Recoil is light and straight back. Bullets and brass are usually not hard to come by? Depending how you want to load ?
Great deer gun, varmint or can be loaded for competition ? Very accurate...... Son set 4 National Reckord's with a 6MM at 500 or 600 yds.

well I started out 52 years ago with a lever action no safety
never any trouble with it , you just need to learn the how of gun safety

[Jedman]

I live in MI also and it sounds like your very close to the upper zone in MI where you CAN use a 22 centerfire. I would also recommend getting a 223 Rem. rifle that you like.
If your daughter does decide she would like to try deer hunting the 223 would be a good rifle to start with. For you, it’s great for target shooting and the ammo should always be available.

Jedman

[atr]

I say a basic 30-30
you can load it down and there also a good light loads using 125 or 130 gr bullets.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Don’t write off the 7.62x39. Not as cheap as it was, but reasonably priced factory plinking ammo is still available at the moment, and it is more cast friendly than 223.

350 Legend might also be a good choice if you ever choose to hunt the other side of the border. No cheap ammo though, unless you cast and handload.

[26Charlie]

The .350 Legend seems to be designed to fit those MI hunting regs and fit into an AR-15 platform.
Would a Marlin .357 Magnum carbine do, without the hassle of component scarcity?

[Finster101]

A .243 especially if you can find a 7 1/2 or 8 twist will cover a lot of bases.

[Jack Stanley]

You have a lot of teaching ahead of you partly because once little girls grow up into ladies they generally would rather have another pair of new shoes than another rifle . Not always ..... but a lot of times . I think the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8Remington SPC would work well . Or perhaps the .350 Legend , after all it will kill deer on both sides of the "rifle" line . All of them can be loaded to suit her abilities .

Jack

[fastdadio]

For Mi. below the line, (restricted rifle zone) I would go 350 Legend. Ballistic equal to the 35 Remington. If only hunting up state, for the ladies, I would recommend 30-30.

[bdicki]

I really like the 300 Blackout with 110 gr Barnes in a Contender or AR or bolt gun.

[15meter]

I’m caught between a .223 and the .243. At this moment I’m leaning .243 but, that could change


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With the .243, you can find a bunch of H-4895 loads that lets you use Hodgdon's 60% rule for reduced recoil loads. Hodgdon has a formula, I believe it is 60% of the heaviest H-4895 load for a given bullet weight will give you a nice reduced recoil load. Verify with Hodgdon. I used their formula to down load a buddy's son's rifle. He bought the 338 Win Mag when he drew an elk tag. Got his elk with full house loads then decided full house loads weren't fun to shoot and were probably over kill for run of the mill Michigan whitetails.

Drop down to 60ish grain bullets(or boolits!) and 60% loads and I think you'll have a rifle that is more than serviceable as a youth rifle. And the Savage rifles are for the money, pretty respectable.

And you may even be able to find some Red Dot loads for cast boolits:bigsmyl2:

[15meter]

.

Looking at the above posted Michigan FAQ, it looks like bottle-neck cartridges are not allowed - Sooo, a .357 rifle should meet the law, give less recoil, and drop a deer (which i've done with a .357 Rossi M-92)

Here's the entire 2022 Michigan hunting regulation publication:

https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/dnr/Documents/LED/digests/hunting_digest.pdf?rev=a74dc1a373224d08be9874d5ee0 a04f5#:~:text=You%20must%20be%20at%20least,whereve r%20DNR%20licenses%20are%20sold.

Michigan has two zones, down south, which used to be shotgun/straight walled pistol only. Now 450 Bushmaster/350 Legend type cartridges are allowed. North of a line that kinda, sorta bisects the lower peninsula, pretty much anything above 22 LR are allowed.

Probably even the 900 Loudnboomer.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Wife and I use .243 on antelope and deer, it is a proven cartridge and one of those easily found in the small towns. Most of the modern 90-100 grain bullets work very well. We have used the 95 gr Partition for 20-30 years, nothing has been lost to the rifle. Ours is a Savage 99 with 1-10 twist, under MOA with most 90 to 100 grain bullets, load with 55-70 grain bullets for fun/practice. Have not found a need for faster twist with most 100 grain bullets - Sierra, Hornady, Speer 105's, all work well, at least to 300 yards or so. Not TOO hard to work up decent cast boolit loads with 85- 100 grain Gas Check boolits. I do know a couple of packers that carry .243's, take their meat cows every year with them. Easy to find and easy to shoot. I do not consider the .223 a good cartridge for large deer or even antelope at over 80-100 yards. It was made legal in WY a couple years ago, I've seem more 'SICK' antelope since then. Small deer, close range MAYBE?

[M-Tecs]

I still think most of the answers are not addressing the two most important issues. First is what going to serve the OP best as a cheap accurate paper puncher? Second is what is going to be the most fun for his five year old daughter to learn on and grow into? One of the more cost-effective bolt guns or AR's that uses an AR carbine style stock is about ideal for adjustability as she grows. It's going to be 5 to 9 years before she will be hunting IF she has an interest in deer hunting. Getting her to love shooting is the first step. Hunting may or may not come later.

[michael.birdsley]

I still think most of the answers are not addressing the two most important issues. First is what going to serve the OP best as a cheap accurate paper puncher? Second is what is going to be the most fun for his five year old daughter to learn on and grow into? One of the more cost-effective bolt guns or AR's that uses an AR carbine style stock is about ideal for adjustability as she grows. It's going to be 5 to 9 years before she will be hunting IF she has an interest in deer hunting. Getting her to love shooting is the first step. Hunting may or may not come later.

Actually I do have 2 AR receivers that I can build a AR out of. Even if she doesn’t hunt I’d imagine she would like to shoot occasionally.


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[Winger Ed.]

We have used the 95 gr Partition for 20-30 years, nothing has been lost to the rifle.

A old friend bought his first rifle at Sears when they carried mostly Winchester under their brand name
right about when the pre-64s dried up.
It was in .243, and all he'd deer hunt with was partitions. He only shot at 90-150 yards and never lost one either.

[lancem]

So I am currently in the market for a new rifle . I am looking for something to basically bunch paper with at the range and not tear my shoulder up. Aka my .450 At first I was thinking cheap plentiful ammo like a .223.


I'm going to stop you right there. You want a new rifle to punch paper with. Your daughter is 5 years old, and you are using her as some kind of excuse to buy this rifle from what I can see. Buy what you want and shoot it, when she gets old enough get her to enjoy shooting paper with it too and then go from there. Just my 2 cents and I can't see myself buying and trying to enjoy something I didn't really want because I really got it for someone else. Sort of buying a minivan so your daughter can drive it 10 years from now while the whole time you want a corvette...

[michael.birdsley]

I'm going to stop you right there. You want a new rifle to punch paper with. Your daughter is 5 years old, and you are using her as some kind of excuse to buy this rifle from what I can see. Buy what you want and shoot it, when she gets old enough get her to enjoy shooting paper with it too and then go from there. Just my 2 cents and I can't see myself buying and trying to enjoy something I didn't really want because I really got it for someone else. Sort of buying a minivan so your daughter can drive it 10 years from now while the whole time you want a corvette...

The reason I say that. Financially wise everything is good to buy a rifle. Who knows what happens in 5-10 years and maybe buying a new rifle dosent make financial sense. Even with proper planning somthing happens and I have to sell everything off except her rifle and my .450 for deer hunting. At least at that point we can still hunt together. Things happen and they can happen fast even to people who are prepared.


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[BLAHUT]

Actually I do have 2 AR receivers that I can build a AR out of. Even if she doesn’t hunt I’d imagine she would like to shoot occasionally.


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Teach her to shoot with a BB gun,5 yds, a pellet rifle, 10meters, a .22, it is easy to make it fun and spend time with her. Can do that in the basement or garage? Well not the .22, but at the range with charcoal bruckets, they explode in a puff of black smoke. Then see where her interest lie ? I have taught many girls to shoot, a number of them have gone on to college on shooting scholarships. I taught 4 sons to shoot, one loved competition, set many records, two love to hunt, one is still in the army, last is into computers. I got to spend time with all of them.

[dverna]

I'm going to stop you right there. You want a new rifle to punch paper with. Your daughter is 5 years old, and you are using her as some kind of excuse to buy this rifle from what I can see. Buy what you want and shoot it, when she gets old enough get her to enjoy shooting paper with it too and then go from there. Just my 2 cents and I can't see myself buying and trying to enjoy something I didn't really want because I really got it for someone else. Sort of buying a minivan so your daughter can drive it 10 years from now while the whole time you want a corvette...


Your mother did not raise a fool. Good post.

[waylonrocks]

"I am looking for something to basically bunch paper with at the range and not tear my shoulder up."
With this requirement, the 223 would be the practical choice. Every model of gun is chambered in it and ammo is readily available and relatively affordable. Since your daughter is so young, I think trying to anticipate what would be a hunting rifle for her would be a mistake. Teach her proper gun safety and skills with a 22 rimfire and when she is comfortable, the 223 is a good introduction to a centerfire rifle. Both of these chamberings are accurate enough to build confidence and ammo pricing will give you the most trigger time compared to anything other than an air rifle. Down the road, gifting her with her own personal rifle, rather than a hand-me-down, will give you as much pleasure as it will her.

[charlie b]

At what ranges do you paper punch? You mentioned hunting ranges are short.

For anything under 600yd the .223 is a much better choice. The only reason I went to 6mm was the 1000yd targets (mine is 6BR).

If you shoot a lot the downside of the .243 will become apparent. It can be a bit hard on barrels when loaded near max. You could easily shoot out the barrel before your daughter is old enough to use it.

[Jedman]

Mistake

[Krag 1901]

Get your daughter a Cricket single shot .22. Sized for her and plenty to teach her to shoot. When she's 8-10 get her a .223. If you want a new rifle get yourself one.

[BadgerShooter]

The 6.5 Grendel is a very interesting cartridge. It kills way beyond its numbers, which if you compare, are quite close to real world 6.5x54 MS, which has been killing game big and small for a century. The cartridge is super efficient, kicks even less than a Creedmoor and can be gotten in some decent, inexpensive bolt guns as well as AR uppers with a special magazine. There are now tons of excellent bullets being made for the 264 dia if you can find them.

[Krag 1901]

The 6.5 Grendel is a very interesting cartridge. It kills way beyond its numbers, which if you compare, are quite close to real world 6.5x54 MS, which has been killing game big and small for a century. The cartridge is super efficient, kicks even less than a Creedmoor and can be gotten in some decent, inexpensive bolt guns as well as AR uppers with a special magazine. There are now tons of excellent bullets being made for the 264 dia if you can find them.

I agree the 6.5 Grendel is the gun to fit your needs. I'd trade my .223 Mod 77 MKII for one except I don't need a new dia to deal with. Besides I have more guns than I can shoot now.

[BadgerShooter]

I was going to get a CZ 527 in Grendel. I have a 223 and a 7.62x39 that perform tremendously. Now CZ has evidentally decided they need to quit making high quality firearms out of wood and steel and make crap like everybody else. I was dumbstruck when I saw what 527's have been going for recently. Their new 600 line has not been doing well. I'll probably end up with a Ruger at some point. I had an AR upper in it that was very accurate, but I just don't need that cartridge in an AR platform. I want it in a trim sporter rifle.

[michael.birdsley]

So I am now the proud owner of a savage axis .243 that I bought today. They were out of rails and scope rings for it. I’m going to a diamond beck vortex 4-12x50mm ( currently on my triumph M/L ). It shouldered really good. For a budget gun it will work. I’m going to shoot the crap out of it and if my daughter wants to hunt it will be there.

My club range has a 200 yard bench. So after I get acclimated I’ll be trying out the 200 yard range. I’ll order dyes for it tonight and some factory ammo for it tonight to get some brass.


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[michael.birdsley]

Get your daughter a Cricket single shot .22. Sized for her and plenty to teach her to shoot. When she's 8-10 get her a .223. If you want a new rifle get yourself one.

I was thinking the Henry youth .22 in the pink cammo

Btw there is no minimum age limit in Michigan to in Michigan you see kids the age of 5-6 yrs old shooting deer. Daughters not ready but hoping
In 4-4 yrs she will be ready to hunt the youth hunt in September

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[sigep1764]

Like what was said before, shoot cast in it. 243's are notoriously hard on the throat and rifling. That said, congrats! If your experience is like mine in 223, the Axis is an outstanding platform that punches way way above its weight. The slender grip, high comb, and slick bolt throw are fantastic and its far more accurate than it should be. And the 243 is an inherently accurate round. If you have or can scrounge 308 brass at the range, you prolly can have all the brass you need. Its the parent case and is readily available.

[michael.birdsley]

Like what was said before, shoot cast in it. 243's are notoriously hard on the throat and rifling. That said, congrats! If your experience is like mine in 223, the Axis is an outstanding platform that punches way way above its weight. The slender grip, high comb, and slick bolt throw are fantastic and its far more accurate than it should be. And the 243 is an inherently accurate round. If you have or can scrounge 308 brass at the range, you prolly can have all the brass you need. Its the parent case and is readily available.

I don’t have any .308 but, in the future that does give me practice in forming a case from another round I have been wanting to try that.

So being hard on the throat and rifling meaning shooting out the barrel ?


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[MarkP]

Get your daughter a Cricket single shot .22. Sized for her and plenty to teach her to shoot. When she's 8-10 get her a .223. If you want a new rifle get yourself one.

This is what daughter started out with at age 5. Then a shortened Kimber 84 Montana in 243 Win at age 8. She shot 95 gr RCBS FN over full case of Trailboss for a yr or so then I loaded 58 gr Vmax to about 2,600 fps and practiced shooting 2 liter bottles filled with colored water. She shot her first deer at age 10. She only fired reduced loads while practicing, I sighted her gun in with the hunting loads when she was not with me. When she was younger she was above average ht for her age, I think she was about 5' 1" at 10 yrs old, she is 18 now and 5' 6" and the Kimber is a perfect fit. We went deer hunting together every year from age 9 to 15. Young shooters and newer shooters can be sensitive to muzzle blast.

[charlie b]

Yes, 'hard on the barrel' means shorter barrel life. Small bore and large case capacity means a lot of burning powder is eroding the throat. 'How short a barrel life' can only be answered by someone who has shot out a barrel. If you reload and reduce loads a bit then barrel life is extended. Shooting cast bullets with reduced loads you might have an indefinite life.

Keep in mind that a bench rest shooter might consider his barrel 'shot out' if it only groups 0.5MOA instead of 0.2MOA.

[BadgerShooter]

I've cooked a couple 243 barrels. I very much earned the results firing 58 grain V-max bullets well over max in a Rem 700 and a 700 Varmint in 243 Ackley. My wife and I shot a lot of critters and placed well in some unknown range rifle matches with those loads. Flat and amazingly destructive on AR500 targets - and extremely hard on barrel throats. Shooting unknown distances, we used two loads - the VMax for an extended point blank and 105 AMax's for distances where we had to wind on the knobs. The great thing about the 105 is that it gives nearly identical trajectories to the 300 Win with 208 AMax's. Great for practice without burning a hatful of powder and a more expensive bullet.

If you keep your bullet weights on the heavier side and your velocities under 3400 or so, barrel life should not be a massive problem. Just be aware if you want that speed, barrel life suffers pretty quickly. That Ackely with 58's at 4100 was a laser beam and they actually shot great out to about 600. What they did to prairie dogs........ I knew full well what was going to happen to barrel life and I wasn't disappointed with the performance or the short tube life.

[michael.birdsley]

Ok that was my next question. About what bullet weight to shoot. I bought some 100 grain fiocchis on clearance from online for $27.99 ( cheapest I could find ) basically just to sight in and re use the brass. Looks like brass is fairly attainable.

I need to find some small rifle primers. I only have 150 left after loading the .450. I bought these on accident 5 years ago. Luckily I never traded them away or sold them as I have 2 guns now that need them. I may have to make a trade as I have a bunch of large rifle and small pistol.

I mean at this point it’s just a range gun. The club has a 200 yard range that I want to start shooting. Seems like there is a big range of bullets from 55 grain to 105 grain. At this point I’m not trying to put together the fastest fps bullet I can find.


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[M-Tecs]

Ok that was my next question. About what bullet weight to shoot. I bought some 100 grain fiocchis on clearance from online for $27.99 ( cheapest I could find ) basically just to sight in and re use the brass. Looks like brass is fairly attainable.

I need to find some small rifle primers. I only have 150 left after loading the .450. I bought these on accident 5 years ago. Luckily I never traded them away or sold them as I have 2 guns now that need them. I may have to make a trade as I have a bunch of large rifle and small pistol.

I mean at this point it’s just a range gun. The club has a 200 yard range that I want to start shooting. Seems like there is a big range of bullets from 55 grain to 105 grain. At this point I’m not trying to put together the fastest fps bullet I can find.


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The 243 normally uses large rifle primers. Peterson did make some small primer pocket 243 brass.

Barrel life is highly dependent on rate of fire. The guys competing with the standard .243 tend to get around 2,000 competition barrel life. For hunters it's normally double that.

Pressure and heat erode the throat. Bullet dwell time is also a factor as is shoulder angle/neck length. The high energy powders are also harder on throats. All things being equal heavier bullets tend to be harder on throats

https://mssblog.com/2016/08/12/factors-in-barrel-life/

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/worst-powders-re-bbl-throat-erosion-for-midrange.3878902/

[slownsteady22]

How about 25 06? Little recoil, flat shooting, and all that I have shot have been extremely accurate.

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[michael.birdsley]

The 243 normally uses large rifle primers. Peterson did make some small primer pocket 243 brass.

Barrel life is highly dependent on rate of fire. The guys competing with the standard .243 tend to get around 2,000 competition barrel life. For hunters it's normally double that.

Pressure and heat erode the throat. Bullet dwell time is also a factor as is shoulder angle/neck length. The high energy powders are also harder on throats. All things being equal heavier bullets tend to be harder on throats

https://mssblog.com/2016/08/12/factors-in-barrel-life/

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/worst-powders-re-bbl-throat-erosion-for-midrange.3878902/

Solved that issue about the primers. My fault for not looking in the manual. I’ll start looking at the lighter bullets than. Thanks for the link


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[toallmy]

Don't overlook the lighter bullets some 243s do extremely well with them .

[michael.birdsley]

Don't overlook the lighter bullets some 243s do extremely well with them .

Yeah, I think I’m going to start some where in the middle as far as bullet weight.


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