Rerifling with a rifling button?

[backwoods_bob]

Is it possible to make a usable rifled bore this way? I am thinking that the bore would taper because the original barrel would be tapered.

Also looking at relining or rebarreling. Liners seem to be thin on the ground now and rebarreling I would have to farm out.

Don't have access to a lathe since I retired and kinda doubt I would use one enough to buy one.

[redneck1]

Are you talking about just pushing a button down an already rifled bore , or drilling , reaming then rifling ?

If the first I think you would have just about zero chance of it working out .
The second way , yes it would be a potentially viable way to re-rifle a barrel . But not as good an option as cut rifling .

[HWooldridge]

I don’t think it’s practical to recut existing grooves. It’s the main reason muzzleloaders were enlarged when they were “shot out”. My vote would be to pay someone to reline.

[M-Tecs]

Is it possible to make a usable rifled bore this way? I am thinking that the bore would taper because the original barrel would be tapered.

Also looking at relining or rebarreling. Liners seem to be thin on the ground now and rebarreling I would have to farm out.

Don't have access to a lathe since I retired and kinda doubt I would use one enough to buy one.

Almost anything is possible with enough money and tools.

First why do you think the bore is tapered?

Second you have to increase in size like going from a .308" bore to a .311" bore.

Quality buttons are not cheap and you still have to push or pull them.

http://dmetool.com/products/rifle-buttons-mandrels/

These are cheap? and they may work but pushing a same size button through a same size bore does nothing.

https://hammerbutton.com/rifling-button-combo/rifling-button-combo-9x19-parabellum/

If the bore has heat checking that has to be removed to be successful.

[backwoods_bob]

The second. I don't see a way that I could make the first work, without a pile of money for custom tooling.

Cut rifling is a possibility. I can even imagine how to automate it. A button seems simpler if doable.

[backwoods_bob]

I was thinking that the bore would be tapered after pushing a button through it. The taper of the existing barrel would give a different degree of spring back along the length of the barrel. The walls of the barrel would be thinner.

Hammer Button looks promising, smart thing for me to do would be to ask them.

[stubshaft]

What about a rebore job. I've had Bobby Hoyt and Jesse Ocampo punch out the bores of some of my rifles and rebore them for me at a very reasonable price.

[john.k]

The Steyr M95s were refurbished in the 1930s by having the rifling deepened ,probably with a broach.........the rest of the gun was also made to look like new ,and rechambered for a longer cartridge with a bit larger bullet diameter.

[JRD]

I've been able to learn a bit about buttoning from some friends in the industry.
If you have an existing barrel and want new rifling, you're best bet is to have it rebored to a larger size and cut rifled.
Lining is also an option if you have adequate wall thickness to bore out for the liner-AND you are only talking low intensity cartridges. Some barrel liner companies warn against using liners for high pressure cartridges and only recommend their product for pistol cartridges or classis low pressure rifle cartridges.

What caliber bore are you starting with and wanting to get to? And what kind of rifle?

Buttoning is usually done with a drilled and reamed barrel blank of uniform diameter and sufficient wall thickness. In button rifling, there is no material removed. The grooves are literally squashed into the bore by pulling/pushing a carbide button that is bigger than the bore through the blank with thousands of pounds of force required. Usually barrel blanks are stress relieved after buttoning and barrel makers have to factor in some Kentucky windage to their as buttoned sizes because the rifling may shrink a couple tenths when the barrel blank relaxes during the stress relieve.

[725]

Once again, Bob Hoyt's name surfaces. He is the master. Not only has he rebored a few of mine, but he also, as he calls it, "refreshed" a few. I had a deteriorating barrel with a few "issues" that was still in a basically good shape. Bob chased out the existing rifling with amazing precision. I chose to go to round bottom rifling to replace the original flat cut rifling and that solved all the concerns with the prior neglected barrel. I expected to go from a .530 ball to a .535 ball, but actually I just increased the thickness of the patch to maintain the accuracy. The man is THE MAN. It would be prudent to just give him a call and discuss your issues rather than what if / what if / what if your situation.

[John Taylor]

A button will only work on a barrel blank that has a uniform thickness for the full length. If the wall thickness is not enough the metal will just spring away from the button. I have only done one barrel where I made the rifling deeper and was lucky that I was able to set the machine up to match the twist. It was a 357 that had a groove diameter of about .353". With cut rifling or button rifling there is always a bit of a tight spot at both end of the barrel. On new barrel blanks the chamber will take care of one end and most companies recommend cutting the muzzle off at least 1". On rebores the new chamber takes care of that end but the muzzle end is often not touched. Usually you can feel the tight spot when slugging the barrel. While I have lined a few 30-30s I prefer to make new barrels for any rifle that is over 35,000 psi. The two most common liners are Redmans and T.J's. I use T.J.s because they are hammer forged and they have a larger selection of calibers and twist. At this point I probably will not be doing anymore rebores and may sell the rifling machine.

[Bill*B]

Now, we're talking crude - but you might find this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D43ZeYu9dnM) interesting.

[backwoods_bob]

Now, we're talking crude - but you might find this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D43ZeYu9dnM) interesting.

Good video. Had me thinking about making an oval bored shotgun. Just because.

[backwoods_bob]

A button will only work on a barrel blank that has a uniform thickness for the full length. If the wall thickness is not enough the metal will just spring away from the button. I have only done one barrel where I made the rifling deeper and was lucky that I was able to set the machine up to match the twist. It was a 357 that had a groove diameter of about .353". With cut rifling or button rifling there is always a bit of a tight spot at both end of the barrel. On new barrel blanks the chamber will take care of one end and most companies recommend cutting the muzzle off at least 1". On rebores the new chamber takes care of that end but the muzzle end is often not touched. Usually you can feel the tight spot when slugging the barrel. While I have lined a few 30-30s I prefer to make new barrels for any rifle that is over 35,000 psi. The two most common liners are Redmans and T.J's. I use T.J.s because they are hammer forged and they have a larger selection of calibers and twist. At this point I probably will not be doing anymore rebores and may sell the rifling machine.

Thank you. You just answered my biggest concern. I am thinking of a .401WSL or a 38-55 rimless on a Carcano action. Carcano cartridge is about the same dimension in the body and rim for either. Low-pressure, unless I get carried away, so a liner would be a possibility. GM has suitable barrel blanks for either, would need to track down someone to do the lathe work for me.

[john.k]

The Marlin Microgroove patent specifies a tapered blank and a button producing a tapered rifling .

[M-Tecs]

The Marlin Microgroove patent specifies a tapered blank and a button producing a tapered rifling .

The patent explains the issue of reverse tapered bores on normal form rifling when done on a contoured blank and button rifling. The microgroove process patent claims due to the new thread form reverse taper is not an issue.

Patent is here. https://patents.google.com/patent/US3100358A/en

[Willbird]

Not sure if you saw this brass but it might dovetail into what you are talking about doing. Out of stock at a couple places I looked real quick but some might be floating around out there somewhere.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/grendel-basic

The 6.8 basic brass again out of stock is smaller dia but longer, that starts to look like it MIGHT work in shortened 38/55 reloading dies for a rimless 375 ctg. Measuring a WW 38/55 case the 1/2" above the rim is perfectly straight at .417 dia. Pondering whether a chamber reamer for a case designed to headspace on case mouth is a different design, kinda thinking it is probably.

Just a couple ideas to spin around.



Bill

[backwoods_bob]

Not sure if you saw this brass but it might dovetail into what you are talking about doing. Out of stock at a couple places I looked real quick but some might be floating around out there somewhere.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/grendel-basic

The 6.8 basic brass again out of stock is smaller dia but longer, that starts to look like it MIGHT work in shortened 38/55 reloading dies for a rimless 375 ctg. Measuring a WW 38/55 case the 1/2" above the rim is perfectly straight at .417 dia. Pondering whether a chamber reamer for a case designed to headspace on case mouth is a different design, kinda thinking it is probably.

Just a couple ideas to spin around.



Bill

Thanks for the suggestion. More searching found that the 400AR is based on the Carcano brass cutoff.

[Willbird]

I found a SAAMI drawing for 350 Legend, gives an example of what a chamber looks like when we headspace off the case mouth.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/350-Legend-Public-Introduction-Rev-2021-06-04.pdf