my back went out

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been offline for a while...Just thought I'd check in.
A few weeks ago, I started having lightening bolt pains in my lower back & hips, Sciatica I am told.

I've had 6 visits to Chiropractor so far, many more to come.
3rd degree degradation in lower disks...the chiro says "we" can fix it, I'm hoping "we" can bring me back, and I am not sure what to do if he can't? (well, I know what to do, I just don't want surgery)
On the plus side, I have experienced incremental improvement after each chiro adjustment/treatment...time will tell, I guess.

it's painful for me to sit in front of computer, so I am online very rarely, so be patient of you have thoughts for me.

[ShooterAZ]

I hope that it can fully recover Jon, I have had back pain that made it so I couldn't even put on my shoes or socks. Couldn't bend over to wash my legs or feet in the shower either. Get better soon my friend! I know what it it feels like.

[elmacgyver0]

I have had bad back pain, no fun.
I feel for you man!

[Wayne Smith]

Jon, get an MRI and find out exactly what is going on. Back surgery is not what it was even 10 years ago. Find a good neuro surgeon and get a consultation once you have an MRI in hand so he/she can see and diagnose what is going on.

For me it was both central stenosis and my L4/5 disk gone. I also had stenosis growing L5/S1 so I told my surgeon to do it all at once. He said that recovery would take longer, but since I had no idea what a normal recovery was, made no difference to me so I told him to do it. From the time I first saw the surgeon and my first lower back MRI the area where the spinal cord went through the spine was reduced to about the size of my little finger. (normal size about the size of the base of my thumb) I wore a back brace and had no pain but about 18months later I stood up two different times and had no feeling in my right leg for maybe a tenth of a second. I saw my Primary Doctor and told her about this and mentioned that I probably ought to contact my surgeon. "I would make that my first priority" was her response. I did, got another MRI. Now the space for the spinal cord was slightly larger than a needle. I told him to schedule my surgery ASAP, he did. I have three pieces of flexible titanium replacing the missing disk. I have rods and bolts in my back. I have a lifetime 40lb lifting limit, but I am still walking and would not be without the surgery.

I had the surgery and within 24 hours I was walking, with significant help the first couple of times, but then on my own, first with my cane and then without. I went home the second day after the surgery.

Obviously I had an excellent neuro surgeon. Don't underestimate what they can do for you.

[atr]

I have had Sciatica and it is miserable.
I did two things, both of which helped: got a better bed and had acupuncture treament.
after the very first acupuncture session my back was feeling better, after 6 sessions the pain was gone. I did also try medication at first but is just messed with my head and it did not solve the pain problem.
best to you
atr

[pworley1]

I hope the treatments work for you.

[BLAHUT]

I feel for you. I did a lot of rescurch before surgery, it was thought my disks were gone. There is a device that looks like two beer caps with a plastic disk between, used to replace the disks, only draw back is you gain 1/4" in heigh for each replacement. Told up and walking next day. I was not so lucky, I had a tumor on spinal cord at about L-5, cord was almost reduced to nothing. Loss of almost all feeling below the ribs. This was in 2006, still have trouble but I can still walk, not very good, but still walk. With new medical treatments amazing things are happening, Ger the MRI, talk to a good surgeon, see what they think they can do for you? The longer you Wate, it only gets worser...... With the tumor and the infection along with massive cord damage, I was told if I had waited just a few months more, I would not be walking.... I send you all my best for your recovery........

[porthos]

i would be leary of a chiropractor that requires many repeat visits. usually 1 or 2 visits should put things back in place. if not go elswhere. i have a friend that several years ago was going on a regular basis with no relief. i told him to stop going for a while. he did and lost the pain. when my pain stays for over a week, i use a gravity table a few times a day; usually helps

[porthos]

oops, its called a inversion table

[megasupermagnum]

I had an injury when I was playing football that left me with Sciatica for a little while. It wasn't horrible, but tying shoes or sitting long wasn't very fun. I went to the Chiropractor for weeks. As far as I'm concerned they are nothing but quack doctors. I was stretched out, which I was already doing on my own. I also remember the electric machine that shocked me. It was very uncomfortable, and did not do one thing. Finally I quit going, and the problem went away soon enough.

In my case my issue was strained muscles in the lower back which just needed to heal. Spinal problems are a whole other ball game. I would trust your doctor, your real doctor. If he says to go to the Chiropractor, then I guess do that. I wish you luck. I found walking was the best cure in my case, but again, that was a muscular problem.

[Spooksar]

I have 3 vertebrae that are gone 2 of the fused together from use. I used to go to a chiropractor but when I had shoulder surgery I ended up in physiotherapy, the young lady told me to let her give my back a go, man did she straighten it out. I’ll be pain free for months till I do something dumb, then go back for 2 sessions and be good again. Best it’s been in 20 years.

[dverna]

Wayne gave you good advice.

[Hickok]

Jon, here hoping you get well soon!

[contender1]

I do hope you can get good help & recover.

I do not know if this will help any at all.

I got to "enjoying" back pain several years ago due to normal activity etc. Nothing severe,, but lower back pain. Well, about a year & half ago,, I got an inversion chair. A Teeter Hang-Up brand. One of the better ones.
At first it was a little funky feeling,, but even the very first time I tried it,, it felt good. I only stayed a few minutes the first several times. I slowly increased the amount of time I hang upside down. I do a daily regime of 10 minutes every morning now. The first few months,, I'd get places in my back to "pop" and feel immediate relief. Now,, if I've had a hard day,, I get on it a second time in the evenings, and get relief. The two biggest things. (1) My back doesn't pop as hard or as noticeable as in the beginning. (2) My back pains have pretty much ceased unless I work hard and then only after the work is it an issue. Time on the chair & I'm golden. Another noticeable thing. I'm also noticing how often several little places in my back & neck just "click" as they shift & align.

I spoke with a Chiropractor about this as well. He was not my doctor,, and just a shooter who comes to my matches. He had zero interests in me as a patient. He said; "Many people do benefit from using that type of treatment,, IF,,IF they can do it comfortably. Make sure you get a good chair that allows easy return to the upright position. And to make sure you "rest" before stepping off the chair."

I told him I pull myself back up, to a parallel position, and stay that way for a few minutes to allow the blood flow to return to normal.

I wish I'd started this 10 years ago. but it's JUST MY OWN EXPERIENCES!

[MrWolf]

I've had back/neck pain for 28 years now. Think I have more damaged dies than good throughout my back including thoracic which I was told was hard to do. Not the prize I wanted. I put off surgeries for way to long and finally begged a doc at a 50% chance for improvement. It got me walking right again. Before surgery and more chiropractor visits, I would do a Wayne Smith suggested and get an MRI. I would also look into TRADITIONAL acupuncture along with the electrodes hooked up to the needles. What a difference it made for ME. Back then it was not covered by insurance but the $3,500 I spent on treatments really made a difference. Back pain sucks. I am on a disability pension and SS Disability. Please take care of your back now. It only gets worse the older you get. Just slept the last three nights on the floor again to get some relief. Good luck.
Ron

[Markopolo]

Jon? Get yourself an IPad Mini… easy to handle and better for bad back days.

[Half Dog]

I’m not there yet but when I am, I believe I will opt for the treatment from the following link.

It seems treatments have greatly developed and they try to show that on their web site.

https://www.donnallyspine.com/

[MaryB]

I've been offline for a while...Just thought I'd check in.
A few weeks ago, I started having lightening bolt pains in my lower back & hips, Sciatica I am told.

I've had 6 visits to Chiropractor so far, many more to come.
3rd degree degradation in lower disks...the chiro says "we" can fix it, I'm hoping "we" can bring me back, and I am not sure what to do if he can't? (well, I know what to do, I just don't want surgery)
On the plus side, I have experienced incremental improvement after each chiro adjustment/treatment...time will tell, I guess.

it's painful for me to sit in front of computer, so I am online very rarely, so be patient of you have thoughts for me.

Welcome to my life 24/7/365! My back is what made me retire early. I do not know what pain free is.

Besides the chiroquack get out and WALK as much as you can stand keeping in mind you have to retrace your steps so don't push to the I need to sit/lay down stage then turn around! My back surgeon and PT told me it is the best low back exercise there is.

[super6]

Welcome to my life 24/7/365! My back is what made me retire early. I do not know what pain free is.

Besides the chiroquack get out and WALK as much as you can stand keeping in mind you have to retrace your steps so don't push to the I need to sit/lay down stage then turn around! My back surgeon and PT told me it is the best low back exercise there is.

My steps are planed so I can get back. Yes I push it! Walking a dog is helpful if he, she can drag you back!LOL

[granville_it]

"I have had bad back pain, no fun.
I feel for you man!"

Due old age, 73yrs.

Mark

[Silvercreek Farmer]

i would be leary of a chiropractor that requires many repeat visits. usually 1 or 2 visits should put things back in place. if not go elswhere. i have a friend that several years ago was going on a regular basis with no relief. i told him to stop going for a while. he did and lost the pain. when my pain stays for over a week, i use a gravity table a few times a day; usually helps


This. Everyone I know that has gotten relief from Chiro has gotten it on the first visit.

[Bmi48219]

I’ve had sporadic bouts with sciatica / lower back issues since high school football. Some disk degeneration but not a show stopper, most of the time.
Never had much luck with chiropractors, I realized when my back was seriously out, I usually recovered just as fast without bi-weekly adjustments.

We don’t have much supportive muscle in our lower back. For the average guy strengthening your stomach muscles, and not over-extending yourself, really help prevent lower back attacks.

[warren5421]

I started at 16 with 3 days in hospital with traction. I am 77 now. Since 45-50 I go in to see a doctor I have got the saying "With surgery we will fix you right up. Let's get some xRays, MRI, or CT Scans." the next visit I get "Lets rethink surgery." Go to minanun of two different ortho sergon's in two different offices! I know several people that have had surgery and 7-10 years they are under the knife again. If you go under the knife make sure that what ever they do you can still have an MRI. Cordazone shots help but personally I won't do them after the history with use on horses, too much leaches calcium from bone.

I found that a pain management class helped more than most of the doctors.

[MaryB]

I help my pain doc with a talk for new patients. I flat out tel them "if you are looking for 100% pain relief from narcotics you are a junkie and need help. If you can deal with them taking the pain down to a dull roar and let you function for the day then yes, they will help you." Mot meetings 3-4 people get up and leave, doc never sees them again but he hears they show up at another clinic looking for a prescription...

[kerplode]

So I hope you get better. I just really doubt you will if you're seeing a quackropractor. Those guys are a scam. I've never known anyone that improves from the efforts of a crack-quack. You're gonna end up just going every week for an "adjustment" which will feel better for a day, then need more "adjustments". Spend money, lather, rinse, repeat. I'm also not convinced all that quackery isn't going to actually make the underlying injury worse. I mean dude is just cracking away right...No imaging or nothing to see what's actually wrong.

So go to a real doctor. Get an MRI. Figure out what's really wrong. Get it fixed surgically if needed.

And, finally, what made the biggest difference to my back was strengthening my core muscles so that they hold the spine in correct alignment. I did this with the help of a non-traditional physical therapist, a personal trainer, and exercise.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I thought I was going to avoid these type of comments, but...

After double digit general anesthesia operations by the time I was 50 for one reason or another (some related to youthful vitality & stupidity), I learned that doctors are akin to a mechanic that you ask to diagnose your car problem w/o lifting the hood. They Must use good test protocols, and in this case soft tissue scans, or they are guessing.

I had & have back issues, so have direct experience.

I was operated on for ruptured L5-S1 disk, and it worked out great. I did Exactly what the doctor told me, healed quick, healed well.
Functioning was unbearable in the month or so directly before the surgery.
At 33 years old I had issues walking, tremendous pain and utter lack of sensation (depended on body part & the moment), and would have my back spasm so hard that it literally once flipped me from standing to flat on my back in a fraction of a second. My pain tolerance is high. I have broken bones and not known it, and have driven myself to doctors after tearing my pectoral major completely off my upper arm bone while weight lifting. I also have had the joy of waking up during a cardioversion (cardiac paddles applied to correct heart rhythm issue), so have some experiences to relate pain scale to.
I could not take the back pain by the time I saw my surgeon.

Chiropractor helped me SOME in months before I saw the surgeon, but he was the one who sent me for an MRI after I was reduced to screaming on his table one day. Surgery was my only real choice. The surgeon told me that the L5-S1 had been ruptured for at least 6 years, and I just never knew it because something recent had compressed the disk more and caused more ejected material to press harder on the nerve branch.
I have still a bulged L4-L5, a bulged L3-L4, and a bone spur growing into my spinal chord. Exercises fix things when I get it riled up.
Still lift 2/3 of my body weight w/o any issues at all.

I would recommend the MRI (tissue scan), and then have a talk with credentialed medical professionals. Deciding on surgery is a big deal. A good surgeon can do a wonderful job. I wouldn't trust someone who has done it a time or two, and I do know people who have had bad post surgical experience w/ bulged disks. I thoroughly believe that half the battle is doing Exactly what your surgeon says Post Op.

My surgeon was open w/ me: (if I remember this right, it was about 25 years ago) a blind study from a medical school showed that 40% of people reporting chronic back pain have no skeletal / nerve issues, 60% having skeletal / nerve issues in lower back have no back pain.
It's a mixed bag and guesses unless they use an MRI. Then you can decide on proven courses of action for the factually diagnosed issue.

[DougGuy]

I have a good back for 70yrs old, 50 of which I spent doing hard core industrial stuff, shipyards, power plants, refineries, offshore, I was a pipefitter/pipewelder for the last 15 of those years, LOTS of heavy lifting, climbing, hoisting, rigging, so on and so on. I hurt it a few times, had white tissue injuries that took forever to heal but they did. Never went to a chiro, the GF's tended to do me the most good when I hurt, that and brown liquor.

Now I end up in pain in the afternoon/evenings after working 5-6 hours so the back doctor ordered a scan and to my relief, although I do have degenerative disc disease, there was no real damage, just some deterioration all up and down my spine. Occasionally I hurt enough to take an Oxy, and that makes it better.

The thing that helped me the most so far, is re-thinking how I move in general, and how I lift. I still weld and work steel now and then, so I have started putting my wire feeder in an old shopping cart which makes it MUCH easier to change the wire, and I lay my grinders and extension cords in the basket, I try to not put ANYTHING that I am going to have to bend down and pick up, on the floor. Bad habit and hard to break.

So far if I limit the amount of bending I do during the day, I will be a LOT better off after working. The other thing that made a credible difference is Methocarbamol, a muscle relaxer. This actually does dissipate the pain and make it easier to sleep.

I know you all have worse problems than I do, so I am not complaining, just posting what works for me, less bending and muscle relaxer. I should have started placing things at waist level many years ago.

[jonp]

oops, its called a inversion table

I read a great deal on those and they seem to work. Teeter inversion table, reverse hyper machines and regular back exercises. I had back problems stemming from pulling a 600lb snowmobile out of a snowdrift and driving for a living. I managed to solve mine by stretching and exercise to strengthen the lower back. We bought a Bowflex for this. I used to life iron but as I got older stretching and strength became much more important and resistance training fits the bill.

https://reversehypermachines.com/joe-rogan-back-machine-how-did-he-heal-his-back/
https://teeter.com/fitspine/

I'd try anything and everything under the sun before I let someone cut into me.

[jonp]

So I hope you get better. I just really doubt you will if you're seeing a quackropractor. Those guys are a scam. I've never known anyone that improves from the efforts of a crack-quack. You're gonna end up just going every week for an "adjustment" which will feel better for a day, then need more "adjustments". Spend money, lather, rinse, repeat. I'm also not convinced all that quackery isn't going to actually make the underlying injury worse. I mean dude is just cracking away right...No imaging or nothing to see what's actually wrong.

So go to a real doctor. Get an MRI. Figure out what's really wrong. Get it fixed surgically if needed.

And, finally, what made the biggest difference to my back was strengthening my core muscles so that they hold the spine in correct alignment. I did this with the help of a non-traditional physical therapist, a personal trainer, and exercise.

Yeah, a bonecracker is not where I would go for anything serious or anything for that matter.

[No_1]

Jon,
Some years back I began suffering pain traced to lower back issues. My Dr. told me to first get rid of my wallet then purchase a new bed. Turned out my pain was due to back alignment issue related to taking naps on my couch. Needless to say, I now no longer nap on the couch or carry a wallet in my pocket and my pain is pretty much gone.

Good luck - back pain is the worse.

[gmsharps]

I am now at 8 weeks toward recovery with the L3,4,5 that had bone spurs. I had issues ranging from over 40 years ago but at that time tolerable. As time went on the pain increased to the point, I had to say that's it. I had an x-ray and MRI and found the issue. Surgical was the only real solution. I'm paying attention to the rehab folks and hopefully will back to normal activity before too long. It seems the older you get the longer it takes to recover from stuff. Fortunately, I have a fantastic wife and she has been handling the bulk of the heavy lifting for a while and keeping me from doing to many dumb things.


gmsharps

[uscra112]

Stay the H away from chiropractors! They can only make it worse.
Get an MRI done and evaluated by a competent spine specialist; more than one if possible. You've got nerves being pinched, and there's half a dozen ways that can be happening. It is very likely to require surgery to fix, and even that's not guaranteed.

Been there - I'm in the sixth year of trying to alleviate it, first by physical therapy, then by steroid injections, then by epidurals. The first thing that did any good at all was a procedure called laminectomy, where the surgeon removes parts of the vertebrae that are squeezing the nerves. (I'm lucky, I don't have any disk degeneration. That's a whole 'nother level. My condition is called spinal stenosis. Essentially arthritis of the spine.)

The surgery didn't fix all of it, so then I was talked into a procedure called "ablation", where they actually sever the offending nerve(s). That was a disaster! Resting pain went from Level 4 to Level 9, and it took two months to subside back to Level 4, (rising to Level 6 when I walk more than 20 yards).

Two more months of aggressive "aquatic" PT have begun to improve that, but I'm never going to split and stack five cords of wood like I did in 2015.

[warren5421]

MRI

Just my Lumbar section 2022:

L1-L2: Disc bulge and degenerative facet disease. Mild spinal canal stenosis. Mild bilateral foraminal stenosis.

L2-L3: Disc bulge and degenerative facet disease. Mild spinal canal stenosis. Moderate to severe right and mild-to-moderate left foraminal stenosis.

L3-L4: Disc bulge and degenerative facet disease. Mild spinal canal stenosis. Narrowing of the lateral recesses bilaterally right greater than left. Moderate to severe bilateral foraminal stenosis.

L4-L5:Disc bulge and degenerative facet disease. Minimal spinal canal stenosis. Asymmetric narrowing of the left lateral recess. Severe right and moderate to severe left foraminal stenosis.

L5-S1:Disc bulge and degenerative facet disease. Asymmetric narrowing of the left lateral recess with contact of the descending left S1 nerve root. No significant spinal canal stenosis. Moderate to severe right and severe left foraminal stenosis.

IMPRESSION:
Multilevel changes of the lumbar spine


xRay T-SPINE 2019:

Minimal scollotic curvature of the thoracic spine. No acute vertebral body height loss. Mild multilevel disc height loss. Multilevel osteophytic change.


IMPRESSION:

Multilevel degenerative changes of thoracic spine.


xRay C-spine 2009:

No acute osseous abnormality. C5-C7 moderate to severe spondylosis.


I lived on Codine and Flexerel then the ones on high decided that drug use for the back was bad. They were cut off so pain went up, the only with draw I had.

Every time a Doctor looks at my xRays they tell me no operation!

Anyone that knows how to read xRays/MRI knows that there is pain.

You can learn to live with the pain, it just is out there in you mind. This started in 1961 and goes on today. When government gets into medicine you normally pay the price.

[1eyedjack]

Once was young and not too bright picking up heavy things I shouldn't have. Had back pain and degenerative issues as I aged. Now there's an erector set holding l4 l5 together .what we do in our youth we pay for when grow older

[jonp]

Jon,
Some years back I began suffering pain traced to lower back issues. My Dr. told me to first get rid of my wallet then purchase a new bed. Turned out my pain was due to back alignment issue related to taking naps on my couch. Needless to say, I now no longer nap on the couch or carry a wallet in my pocket and my pain is pretty much gone.

Good luck - back pain is the worse.

Im with you on the matress. People dont think twice about something they spend 8-10hrs a day on. I bought us a Helix, costs some dime and not for everyone but to me worth its weight in gold.
Like boots you wear every day some things are where you spend your money.

[uscra112]

Anybody that wants to discourage the recreational use of opioids need only tell them how severe the constipation they cause will be. I'm taking a mild one (Tramadol) 4x a day, and I buy Miralax in the giant economy size. Diet helps, of course, but a truly vegan diet is boring.

My own chiropractic story: Last couple of years before I retired I had severe neck pain. Medical doctors said nothing wrong, so I naively endured many months of "adjustments" that did nothing but pay for the chiropractor's new boat. Then I retired and moved to rural Ohio, which cut me off from lunches at the local Chinese restaurant. Pain soon gone. Turns out that I am one of many who are hyper-sensitive to mono-sodium glutamate!

[lightman]

I really feel for you. Hope you get some relief soon.

[xs11jack]

Hang in there Jon, we are praying for you.
Ole Jack

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Jon,
Some years back I began suffering pain traced to lower back issues. My Dr. told me to first get rid of my wallet then purchase a new bed. Turned out my pain was due to back alignment issue related to taking naps on my couch. Needless to say, I now no longer nap on the couch or carry a wallet in my pocket and my pain is pretty much gone.

Good luck - back pain is the worse.

Thanks, good info for sure.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks to everyone who shared comments, both good and bad (about Chiropractors).

https://www.glencoefamilychiropractic.com/gonstead-system/

The Chiropractic Practice I am seeing uses the Gonstead System. I'm told only 3% of Chiropractors use it. For my condition (shown by xrays), it seems like the best and most economical solution. After my research on it, I am sold on it. The Doc uses my xrays to formulate a long term plan for my spiral rehabilitation, of course I have to follow all the Doc's guidelines to best chance at success, and I plan to. I have five major issues in my spine, that need correcting. I have had 9 visits so far, and have seen/felt incremental improvement at each step of the way. There is a lot more visits I'm told, and plan to stick with it. A BIG plus for me, is this is a faith based practice.

and, as I mentioned before, it's painful for me to sit in front of computer (but getting better), so I am online very rarely, so be patient of you have any more thoughts for me.

[GregLaROCHE]

I suffered with a back that was going out and suffered pain for years. I finally got operated on and it was amazing. I had a disk removed and the two vertebrae fused together. When I recovered, there was no pain at all anymore. I wish I had done it years before. Don’t hesitate to have the operation, but be sure to do research on the surgeon who will do it. Not all are the same.

[Thin Man]

I also have back and leg pain on my right side. One doctor claimed I had damaged my spine discs from weight lifting and surgery was the only proper treatment for pain relief. Then another doctor claimed my back was contaminated with arthritis as the cause. Who do you believe, who do you trust? For now I am using stretching exercises (bending forward at the waist) and seeing some relief from it. Surgery? On my back??? Ain't gonna happen! All this makes me suspect the doctors are simply using me to get another payday from Medicare.

[uscra112]

I also have back and leg pain on my right side. One doctor claimed I had damaged my spine discs from weight lifting and surgery was the only proper treatment for pain relief. Then another doctor claimed my back was contaminated with arthritis as the cause. Who do you believe, who do you trust? For now I am using stretching exercises (bending forward at the waist) and seeing some relief from it. Surgery? On my back??? Ain't gonna happen! All this makes me suspect the doctors are simply using me to get another payday from Medicare.

The more I experience medicine, the more I agree, but it's not the doctors' fault. It's the MBAs managing the hospitals, combined with the bureaucrats regulating them. Karl Denninger does a rant on this subject every couple of months, and he's not wrong. https://market-ticker.org

[MrWolf]

I also have back and leg pain on my right side. One doctor claimed I had damaged my spine discs from weight lifting and surgery was the only proper treatment for pain relief. Then another doctor claimed my back was contaminated with arthritis as the cause. Who do you believe, who do you trust? For now I am using stretching exercises (bending forward at the waist) and seeing some relief from it. Surgery? On my back??? Ain't gonna happen! All this makes me suspect the doctors are simply using me to get another payday from Medicare.

Get an mri done to make sure. I held off getting operated on till the damage in most areas was to severe to fix. Be smart and get a 3rd opinion I needed. Looking back inwould check with an ortho and neuro surgeon for opinions. I had to beg my neuro surgeon as therexwas only a 50/50 chance it would help me walk. I lucked out but he won't do any of my other areas. Good luck

[uscra112]

Definitely get 2nd and even 3rd opinions. Be aware that many surgeons rely on radiologists to interpret MRIs, and radiologists are sometimes pretty sketchy.

I'm remembering the first "spinal surgeon" I was referred to when my whole saga started. Waiting room looked like the bar scene from Star Wars. I'm 90% sure he was actually a "pill mill" doctor. Never went anywhere near him again, and in fact I switched to a whole different medical group soon after.

One of the downsides to my rural Ohio retirement BOL is 2nd-rate medical care across the board. I had a knee done up in Ann Arbor about 5 years ago, where the better doctors prefer to live. I had my laminectomy done in Marietta for logistical reasons, but now, if I need surgery for anything more than a hangnail, back to A2 is where I'm going.

[Wayne Smith]

Definitely get 2nd and even 3rd opinions. Be aware that many surgeons rely on radiologists to interpret MRIs, and radiologists are sometimes pretty sketchy.

I'm remembering the first "spinal surgeon" I was referred to when my whole saga started. Waiting room looked like the bar scene from Star Wars. I'm 90% sure he was actually a "pill mill" doctor. Never went anywhere near him again, and in fact I switched to a whole different medical group soon after.

One of the downsides to my rural Ohio retirement BOL is 2nd-rate medical care across the board. I had a knee done up in Ann Arbor about 5 years ago, where the better doctors prefer to live. I had my laminectomy done in Marietta for logistical reasons, but now, if I need surgery for anything more than a hangnail, back to A2 is where I'm going.

Humm, my neurosurgeon pulled my MRI up on his computer and proceeded to explain everything I was seeing in terms I could understand. Now, I am smart but I don't have the language they use. He then gave me my options for ongoing treatment, a probable timeline, and pain control processes I could use as my spine degenerated. Very different from your experience.

[uscra112]

Dick Feynman, the famous physicist/mathematician, once said that "if you can't explain your theorem to a cocktail waitress, you don't understand it yourself". The good doctors can do that. My knee surgeon up in A2 could and did. The guy down here who did the laminectomy, not so much. I live and learn, even at my advanced age.

[MaryB]

My back surgeon is a wannabe cowboy but he is good at explaining what is causing the pain and what can be done for treatment. In my case a low back fusion would help leg nerve pain(that is not a huge issue) but it would NOT help the low back pain due to to much low back damage. So meds to keep it down to a dull roar so I can semi function for the day and sleep somewhat at night. Walk, keep core muscles strong...

[MrWolf]

My back surgeon is a wannabe cowboy but he is good at explaining what is causing the pain and what can be done for treatment. In my case a low back fusion would help leg nerve pain(that is not a huge issue) but it would NOT help the low back pain due to to much low back damage. So meds to keep it down to a dull roar so I can semi function for the day and sleep somewhat at night. Walk, keep core muscles strong...

I just had the nerves burned in the L5 area done yesterday afternoon. Insurance will only cover on side at a time so above and below my surgery site on the right side. Other than some discomfort from injections, seems to be helping so far. They will do the left side the end of next month. Had to have four numbing and four block shots done (both left and right side) each of the two months prior. Again Insurance rules to make sure blocks work. The surgery I had was due to what felt like cables in the backs of my legs trying to walk. My surgery did great in getting me back to walking. Hopefully the burning will allow me to sit, etc for more than 45 minutes or so without some nasty pain. Would be nice to drive and see my kids. Good luck.
Ron

[uscra112]

Oh, do keep us posted. First 48 hours or so after my first ablation I was fine, and then WHAM! Pain level up into the 9s at times, functionally bedridden for a couple of months unless I dosed myself with heavy opioids. Have declined to go back for the second one.

Certainly does seem that insurance companies are dictating therapy, rather than doctors. Perhaps too many doctors were abusing the insurance coverage?

[Fishman]

Jon, I have no words of wisdom for your back pain and I am also dealing with some pain/health issues that limit my ability to sit in an office chair for too long. It was mentioned a while back and bears repeating that a tablet of some kind makes the internet a lot easier to access from your recliner. While an Ipad is top-shelf and that is what I prefer, one of the Amazon Fire tablets on a black friday sale is super cheap. My Ipad "magic keyboard" is a little cramped but absolutely perfect key feel. The Ipad Pro also allows you to access an external hard drive. The Fire tablet won't do that, but you can get a bluetooth keyboard/cover cheap if you don't want to use the keyboard on the screen. I have this as well and it works ok, and most importantly it is 20% of the cost of an Ipad. Sometimes the best way to deal with an issue is to avoid it and do something else :)

[MaryB]

Jon, I have no words of wisdom for your back pain and I am also dealing with some pain/health issues that limit my ability to sit in an office chair for too long. It was mentioned a while back and bears repeating that a tablet of some kind makes the internet a lot easier to access from your recliner. While an Ipad is top-shelf and that is what I prefer, one of the Amazon Fire tablets on a black friday sale is super cheap. My Ipad "magic keyboard" is a little cramped but absolutely perfect key feel. The Ipad Pro also allows you to access an external hard drive. The Fire tablet won't do that, but you can get a bluetooth keyboard/cover cheap if you don't want to use the keyboard on the screen. I have this as well and it works ok, and most importantly it is 20% of the cost of an Ipad. Sometimes the best way to deal with an issue is to avoid it and do something else :)

Wireless KB with trackball and put the computer up on the big screen TV! I do that when I want to lean back and just watch YT vids or just read... 75" computer monitor! LOL

[FISH4BUGS]

I have degenerative arthritis in my lower back and sometimes it flares up.
Last episode was the most painful in my life - which included getting shot when I was 21.
PT to keep me on the right track, stretching and exercise to build core and support muscles (2X daily), and a chiropractor has kept it in check. (....alternate one week PT, one week chiro) Even moving towards an anti-inflammatory diet. Trying my best to cut out wheat, dairy and sugar.
I work at a desk on a computer all day but get up at least 20 times a day and walk a bit or even do little stretches. Perfect excuse to check the wood stove, bring in some wood, or get a coffee or water or make a pit stop.
Is it easy? No....you really have to commit to it and do it. The human body has a remarkable way of healing itself if you REALLY help it out.
I complained to my doc of 40 years about being sore and getting old and he told me to stop complaining....he has patients that do Tai Chi daily at 95.
You do as much as you can until your body tells you that you are reaching your limit....time to stop.
This is one time when you cannot BS yourself.
Do it....do it COMPETELY and get better. Don't do it....you get surgery and drugs. The medical-industrial complex loves people like that.....
Very simple formula....do it or don't.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks to everyone who shared comments, both good and bad (about Chiropractors).

https://www.glencoefamilychiropractic.com/gonstead-system/

The Chiropractic Practice I am seeing uses the Gonstead System. I'm told only 3% of Chiropractors use it. For my condition (shown by xrays), it seems like the best and most economical solution. After my research on it, I am sold on it. The Doc uses my xrays to formulate a long term plan for my spiral rehabilitation, of course I have to follow all the Doc's guidelines to best chance at success, and I plan to. I have five major issues in my spine, that need correcting. I have had 9 visits so far, and have seen/felt incremental improvement at each step of the way. There is a lot more visits I'm told, and plan to stick with it. A BIG plus for me, is this is a faith based practice.

and, as I mentioned before, it's painful for me to sit in front of computer (but getting better), so I am online very rarely, so be patient of you have any more thoughts for me.


I have degenerative arthritis in my lower back and sometimes it flares up.
Last episode was the most painful in my life - which included getting shot when I was 21.
PT to keep me on the right track, stretching and exercise to build core and support muscles (2X daily), and a chiropractor has kept it in check. (....alternate one week PT, one week chiro) Even moving towards an anti-inflammatory diet. Trying my best to cut out wheat, dairy and sugar.
I work at a desk on a computer all day but get up at least 20 times a day and walk a bit or even do little stretches. Perfect excuse to check the wood stove, bring in some wood, or get a coffee or water or make a pit stop.
Is it easy? No....you really have to commit to it and do it. The human body has a remarkable way of healing itself if you REALLY help it out.
I complained to my doc of 40 years about being sore and getting old and he told me to stop complaining....he has patients that do Tai Chi daily at 95.
You do as much as you can until your body tells you that you are reaching your limit....time to stop.
This is one time when you cannot BS yourself.
Do it....do it COMPETELY and get better. Don't do it....you get surgery and drugs. The medical-industrial complex loves people like that.....
Very simple formula....do it or don't.
FISH4BUGS,
Thanks for the advice, it sounds very reasonable, for sure. As my back is slowly-incrementally getting better over the 6 weeks, I plan to do just that.

My Chiro has gotten me back to functional, almost eliminated the all the daily doses of OTC pain meds (now one or two per day, instead of 8 or 9), still have some little ticklings of pain, they come and go. Yep, smart exercise and diet change are in order, the later being the most challenging for me...I probably need counseling for my love of food.

[farmbif]

this nerve burning thing is something I was offered. it was being pushed real hard by a local medical groups. ive spoken to several people who have had it. and after learning from 5 years of treatments. it hasn't helped anyone I know who has had it. its very expensive and has no long term effective help in anyone I know who has had it. in fact it was the straw that broke the camels back for my next door neighbor a few years ago when he and his wife got so frustrated with the limited options in good health care that exist here. in a matter of less than a month they sold just about everything and moved to a place they believe to be more civilized with better medical care options.
some people can get over chronic back problems with physical therapy and lots of exercise and for others nothing helps. everyone is different and has different unique situations even though the diagnosis is described as the same thing.

[MaryB]

this nerve burning thing is something I was offered. it was being pushed real hard by a local medical groups. ive spoken to several people who have had it. and after learning from 5 years of treatments. it hasn't helped anyone I know who has had it. its very expensive and has no long term effective help in anyone I know who has had it. in fact it was the straw that broke the camels back for my next door neighbor a few years ago when he and his wife got so frustrated with the limited options in good health care that exist here. in a matter of less than a month they sold just about everything and moved to a place they believe to be more civilized with better medical care options.
some people can get over chronic back problems with physical therapy and lots of exercise and for others nothing helps. everyone is different and has different unique situations even though the diagnosis is described as the same thing.

The spine is a VERY complicated device and the construction is different in all of us. Basic design is the same but from there each body is different and no one treatment can fit all. Why I hate corporate medical care, bean counters make the decisions and not the docs.

[dverna]

Surgery? On my back??? Ain't gonna happen!

Until you suffer real pain and cannot sleep or function. If you can live with the pain, do so. When you cannot live with it, your perspective will change.

In most cases, what is causing the problem is not going to get better. This is where I am at. Do I want surgery in my early 70's or late 70's? My mom suffers in constant pain and is 99, but they will not operate due to her age.

[MrWolf]

this nerve burning thing is something I was offered. it was being pushed real hard by a local medical groups. ive spoken to several people who have had it. and after learning from 5 years of treatments. it hasn't helped anyone I know who has had it. its very expensive and has no long term effective help in anyone I know who has had it. in fact it was the straw that broke the camels back for my next door neighbor a few years ago when he and his wife got so frustrated with the limited options in good health care that exist here. in a matter of less than a month they sold just about everything and moved to a place they believe to be more civilized with better medical care options.
some people can get over chronic back problems with physical therapy and lots of exercise and for others nothing helps. everyone is different and has different unique situations even though the diagnosis is described as the same thing.

I spoke to a lot of people who had it before I consented. They would only do the two nerves at a time so the two on the left will be done in about four weeks. So far so good. Actually looking forward to the next procedure to see what it might be like to be able to sit for more that an hour without excruciating pain. Like Mary said, everyone is different.