gun ranger sniper

[redriverhunter]

I was at the gun range and this guy is going on about how he shoots at a 1000 yards and all that is involved at shooting at a 1000. ok cool glad for you. At a 100 he was not on paper ok, he is asking me where is he hitting, I tell I am not sure. I suggest starting at 25 yards, he give me an odd look but goes along with it. At 25 he is hitting 3 or 4 inches high and right. Then looks at his scope and is trying to figure out how to adjust it. I suggested (could be wrong) but 1/4 moa at 100=4 clicks 50 yards 8 and 25 yards I think it is 16 clicks. He looking his dial and not sure what to do the arrow is going right your shooting right so trun left. I just have to wonder how anyone who can shoot out to 1000 yards has so little knowldge of scope adjustment.

[Smoke4320]

1000 yds in his mind or he went once with a buddy that had all the equipment already setup for 1000 yrds

[country gent]

He said he shot at 1000 yds did he say how he did?

As a side note due to the 20 moa mounts on my 1000 yd rifle it wont zero at 200 yds. It will be on paper but at the top.

You meet all kinds at the range, Most are pretty decent but there are some real wanna bees.

[white eagle]

sounds like he wishes he could shoot at 1000 yards
I'm with you if you don't know how to adjust your scope you are missing more than directions

[elmacgyver0]

Anyone can shoot at 1000 yards, hitting the target is something else.
Hell, I can shoot at the moon!

[kerplode]

The majority of people you meet at the range, or in a gun shop, are full of ****. I hear crazy BS stories all day long...

[Winger Ed.]

Clowns like that is what helped make claiming stolen valor a felony.

[BLAHUT]

Delusion's of grander.. Just another want to be...
YOU can learn something from anybody, Just with some it takes a whole lot longer....
I shoot a 1000yds with iron sights, can go from less than 25yds out beyond 1200yds, just need to know the sight settings,
I practice at 400 yds, that's the longest at the range I belong too..
Last 1000yd match I shot 8-x, 1-9, 1-0. The 1-0 I messed up big time....

[megasupermagnum]

Anyone can shoot at 1000 yards, hitting the target is something else.
Hell, I can shoot at the moon!

I shoot at 1000 yards plenty, even with handguns. It's fun to see how bullets behave, but no, I rarely hit at that range. Actually if I hit even once it is cause for celebration. That's getting so far that you can't hardly see the bullet impacts even in a well plowed field.

[Mal Paso]

We had one the other week, knew all the rules for CCW in this state. I took down his target after he left as he didn't have the courtesy to do it himself. At 5 yards he covered the Whole 2x3 foot target with 9mm holes and no discernible pattern that I could see.

[Hannibal]

The majority of people you meet at the range, or in a gun shop, are full of ****. I hear crazy BS stories all day long...

I say very little to people I don't know. In my experience people who want to talk a lot generally don't have much to say that I want to hear. Too many people repeating too many things they just decided 'sounds right'.

[imashooter2]

I’ve shot to 1,000 yards before. But only because I missed at 100. :groner:

[Dave W.]

A person can keep their mouth shut and have others wonder about their intelligence or they can open their mouth and remove all doubt.

[fatelk]

It seems that a very small percentage of "gun guys" can actually shoot well. I've run into both types over the years. I've seen a lot of wannabees, and a few who make me feel like an amateur.

The last time I was at the range, there was a guy there shooting his Beretta 92 at 25 yards. He shot a box or two into maybe a 12" circle, seemed to be happy with that.

I try to be polite without butting into other people's business. If someone is friendly and talkative, I'll talk, but I don't want to bug someone if they don't.

I had a target set up at 100 yards and was done with my rifle, so I fired six rounds from the bench with my old 1917 S&W 45acp revolver. Getting ready to go, I came back from the 100 yard line with five shots inside 6" (one flyer off the paper, but still very good for me). He asked how I did so I showed him. His response was wow, great shooting... wow!

I know there are a lot of really great shots out there who can put me to shame with much better accuracy, but I don't think that guy realized the potential of his own gun until then.

[trails4u]

My experience is that the ones who 'look' the part or 'talk' the part.....generally aren't the ones who can actually shoot. It's the quiet, modest looking old guy at the end of the bench ya' need to be paying attention to!

[BLAHUT]

It seems that a very small percentage of "gun guys" can actually shoot well. I've run into both types over the years. I've seen a lot of wannabees, and a few who make me feel like an amateur.

The last time I was at the range, there was a guy there shooting his Beretta 92 at 25 yards. He shot a box or two into maybe a 12" circle, seemed to be happy with that.

I try to be polite without butting into other people's business. If someone is friendly and talkative, I'll talk, but I don't want to bug someone if they don't.

I had a target set up at 100 yards and was done with my rifle, so I fired six rounds from the bench with my old 1917 S&W 45acp revolver. Getting ready to go, I came back from the 100 yard line with five shots inside 6" (one flyer off the paper, but still very good for me). He asked how I did so I showed him. His response was wow, great shooting... wow!

I know there are a lot of really great shots out there who can put me to shame with much better accuracy, but I don't think that guy realized the potential of his own gun until then.

I watched a guy down the line from me, shooting a .45 - 1911 at a 12" steel plate at 210yds, off hand, one handed,
out of a hand full of clips, I think he missed the plate once,
I was very impressed....

[Bazoo]

I watched a guy down the line from me, shooting a .45 - 1911 at a 12" steel plate at 210yds, off hand, one handed,
out of a hand full of clips, I think he missed the plate once,
I was very impressed....

Impressive! I can hit a 12” at 100 yards maybe 70% with a 1911.

[stubshaft]

It's not as easy as the video game that snowflake is used to playing!

[CLAYPOOL]

The Concealed Carry classes shot down my first range roof over my target and sand trap....

[BLAHUT]

Impressive! I can hit a 12” at 100 yards maybe 70% with a 1911.

I wish some day to learn to shoot a pistol with such accuracy ? A rifle for me, no problem, a pistol a problem.... With my .223 I can shoot and hit a 1/2" bolt in the end of a chain at the 210 yds steel 49 out of 50 rounds, I need to spend more time with a pistol ??

[trails4u]

I wish some day to learn to shoot a pistol with such accuracy ? A rifle for me, no problem, a pistol a problem.... With my .223 I can shoot and hit a 1/2" bolt in the end of a chain at the 210 yds steel 49 out of 50 rounds, I need to spend more time with a pistol ??

What's your setup? 1/4 MOA is impressive!!

[MUSTANG]

I have had a couple of people tell me they can shoot well at distance. I have discussed my loading and shooting history with them - and made the point that I have never been a top shooter. But; I also know that the reality is that I can out shoot most people I engage with.

I have had the good fortune to have some express a desire to learn more about both shooting and reloading. I have gone back to the basics with them, worked with them a while; and most hav become better shooters than I - but will need years to develop the experience that years of reloading (and thinking/recording/evaluating/and finding what does not work) brings to those who are diligent.

My thoughts are offer to help those interested; be polite to those who are not interested or blowhards; and move on.

[BLAHUT]

What's your setup? 1/4 MOA is impressive!!

I will look up the specks and PM them to you tomorrow, if that is OK with you?? I believe the barrel is 1 x 8 but I need to check?? I believe powder is 2230C ?And see which load is for that gun?? I do not trust my memory for such things......

[BLAHUT]

I have had a couple of people tell me they can shoot well at distance. I have discussed my loading and shooting history with them - and made the point that I have never been a top shooter. But; I also know that the reality is that I can out shoot most people I engage with.

I have had the good fortune to have some express a desire to learn more about both shooting and reloading. I have gone back to the basics with them, worked with them a while; and most hav become better shooters than I - but will need years to develop the experience that years of reloading (and thinking/recording/evaluating/and finding what does not work) brings to those who are diligent.

My thoughts are offer to help those interested; be polite to those who are not interested or blowhards; and move on.

A good moto to live by !

[poppy42]

It's not as easy as the video game that snowflake is used to playing!
Yep ya beat me to it. Another call of duty keyboard commando! A real legend in his own mind!

[Spooksar]

Shooting at 1000 yards consistently take practice and training I’ve taken a couple of long range shooting courses and if you don’t shoot constantly you lose your skill.

[M-Tecs]

I was at the gun range and this guy is going on about how he shoots at a 1000 yards and all that is involved at shooting at a 1000. ok cool glad for you. At a 100 he was not on paper ok, he is asking me where is he hitting, I tell I am not sure. I suggest starting at 25 yards, he give me an odd look but goes along with it. At 25 he is hitting 3 or 4 inches high and right. Then looks at his scope and is trying to figure out how to adjust it. I suggested (could be wrong) but 1/4 moa at 100=4 clicks 50 yards 8 and 25 yards I think it is 16 clicks. He looking his dial and not sure what to do the arrow is going right your shooting right so trun left. I just have to wonder how anyone who can shoot out to 1000 yards has so little knowldge of scope adjustment.

Talk is cheap. I've won a couple of $100 bets on 1,000-yard claims. In one case when we got to the range he never even took his "deer" rifle out of the case.

Anyone that I've ever met that shot well at distance knew what they were doing. Someone that that doesn't know how to adjust a scope is blowing BS.

[Wag]

It's always the quiet guy in the corner, just doing his thing, old beat up car and gear (except for a meticulously maintained rifle), who outshoots everyone and then heads home with a few cloverleafs on a 300 yard target.

I'm not that guy. My late grandpa was and I learned a lot from him. Still wishing I could shoot like he did.

--Wag--

[ebb]

A wanabe is a good thing and most of us wantabe better at some things than we are right now. A liar is another thing completely. I wantabe an SR71 pilot. how close am I to that? I saw a bunch of blades and vanes on the assembly floor at P&W back years ago.

[Finster101]

A wanabe is a good thing and most of us wantabe better at some things than we are right now. A liar is another thing completely. I wantabe an SR71 pilot. how close am I to that? I saw a bunch of blades and vanes on the assembly floor at P&W back years ago.

I in the same boat as you. I got started in the rifle game a little late. When I pull my gear and rifle out it really looks like I might know what I'm doing. Then I start shooting and that image all goes to hell. I'm not good, but I'm trying.

[jonp]

My experience is that the ones who 'look' the part or 'talk' the part.....generally aren't the ones who can actually shoot. It's the quiet, modest looking old guy at the end of the bench ya' need to be paying attention to!

The guys showing up at the range in full tacticool with the latest and greatest who wont shut-up about all they know are never the ones to watch. As you said, its the quiet guy just watching him or that dude at the end of the bench going about his business

[Rickf1985]

I used to shoot 1,000 with irons and I was pretty damn good at it. Here in NJ there is nowhere near me to even try anymore and even if there was I seriously doubt I would still be able to do it. It is a skill that needs to be maintained, constant practice. I don't think I could even see the target in irons anymore at my age.
But then you have the old WWII snipers like this old hero. It is a fairly long video but well worth watching. Unfortunately he is no longer with us but what those guys did for him was fantastic. And when he is shooting especially watch his eyes, They never blink or flinch even when he fires! After all those years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VADFpAfDLY

[jonp]

What's your setup? 1/4 MOA is impressive!!
Im also impressed and would like a rundown especially the optics

[Larry Gibson]

If thats' a 1/2" bolt and he's shooting at the bolt head, then is' more like 1/2 moa shooting at 200 yards or consistently less than a 1" group. Not undoable as my recently rebuilt 223 Rem M700V with Kreiger 8" twist will do that with match and quality varmint bullets. A couple weeks ago I shot a 200/11x F class score at 300 yards. The 10 ring is moa and the X ring is 1/2 moa. Conditions, let alone a very accurate rifle, a quality scope and an excellent load, have to be very, very good to consistently put 49 of 50 shots into even 1/2 moa at 200 yards.

Shooting moa consistently at 1000 yards with a good rifle, good scope and a good load capable of such that is properly zeroed isn't really that difficult for an experienced shooter. It's the getting there which stymies most and even then, can separate the men from the boys. Many 1000 yard matches are shot with service rifles, match rifle and Palma rifles having aperture sights [not high powered scopes] shooting from a prone position with sling [that's with no rest]. Usually, a relay will consist of 15 or 20 shots for record with 2 sighters allowed with a time limit of 1 minute per shot for 17 or 22 minutes for the relay. The 10 ring is 2 moa, and the X ring is moa. Many matches are won by X count with several shooters having "clean" scores.

[Brassmonkey]

when people volunteer information about their greatness I tend to ignore them.

[littlejack]

Great video. Great shooting as well. I learned a looooong time ago, that just because a person can shoot 1 moa @ 100 yards, doesn't mean most can hold that @ 200 yards and beyond. Especially with the average deer rifle. I'd have that ole boy watching my back any time.

[BLAHUT]

It's always the quiet guy in the corner, just doing his thing, old beat up car and gear (except for a meticulously maintained rifle), who outshoots everyone and then heads home with a few cloverleafs on a 300 yard target.

I'm not that guy. My late grandpa was and I learned a lot from him. Still wishing I could shoot like he did.

--Wag--

practice, PRACTICE and you can !!! It takes work to learn and then to keep your skills up....

[BLAHUT]

If thats' a 1/2" bolt and he's shooting at the bolt head, then is' more like 1/2 moa shooting at 200 yards or consistently less than a 1" group. Not undoable as my recently rebuilt 223 Rem M700V with Kreiger 8" twist will do that with match and quality varmint bullets. A couple weeks ago I shot a 200/11x F class score at 300 yards. The 10 ring is moa and the X ring is 1/2 moa. Conditions, let alone a very accurate rifle, a quality scope and an excellent load, have to be very, very good to consistently put 49 of 50 shots into even 1/2 moa at 200 yards.

Shooting moa consistently at 1000 yards with a good rifle, good scope and a good load capable of such that is properly zeroed isn't really that difficult for an experienced shooter. It's the getting there which stymies most and even then, can separate the men from the boys. Many 1000 yard matches are shot with service rifles, match rifle and Palma rifles having aperture sights [not high powered scopes] shooting from a prone position with sling [that's with no rest]. Usually, a relay will consist of 15 or 20 shots for record with 2 sighters allowed with a time limit of 1 minute per shot for 17 or 22 minutes for the relay. The 10 ring is 2 moa, and the X ring is moa. Many matches are won by X count with several shooters having "clean" scores.

200/11x F class score at 300 yards NICE Yes you can be a little less accurate with iron sight and still get great scores..

[Tripplebeards]

I do my best to not talk to anybody when I’m shooting at the range other than “are we clear for firing” it saves the stupidity and the drama. People sure like to come up and talk to you about my guns though and get all excited. I just try to stay quiet and keep it to a minimum and get my shooting in.

[waksupi]

From those I have heard tell me of shooting a deer at a thousand yards, once they are taken to a measured shooting range, they tend to drop off 6-700 yards.

I would be somewhat baffled about scope adjustment at 1000 yards, as I have only shot buffalo rifles with iron sights at that range.

[MaryB]

Had a guy like that at our last gravel pit shoot. Range is 1 1/2 miles long this year and a lot of 50bmgs etc are brought out. We start at 1k yards then back off 500yards at a time. I can generally get 3 of 4 shots on a standard man sized steel plate target at 1 mile, always seem to have 1 flyer(flinch probably... high power rifle makes me HURT). I do not practice enough to translate to be X ring accurate on a target. At 1k yards no problem being on the man sized steel plate but that is a big target! 100 yards with a .223 yes I am X ring accurate... go over 500 and nope not accurate. And as I get older it is harder to be super accurate.

One guy with a 20mm Vulcan rifle was consistent at 1 1/2 miles... he missed 1 of 10 shots. THAT was impressive to watch and hear. He shoots hand turned and weighed brass solids and makes his own targets because the bullet WILL punch holes in 1/2 inch AR-500 steel.

And the tank guy was there, he made a mess out of an old car we had put small holes in... always fun to watch him shoot that thing! The shock wave from it firing is awesome then to hear and see that round plow through an engine block...

[1eyedjack]

Some hit x rings with a issue 1911 others miss the barn they're inside with the most tricked out 5 grand pistol you can buy
Can't buy skill it's like respect it's earned!!

[Shanghai Jack]

I went to a two day shooting clinic staged by the US Veterans Shooting Team for 1000 yd Palma (308 with a 155 grain bullet.) Needless to say I was quickly shamed. There are people who can routinely make superior scores at 1000 yards and those guys were them. Speaking frankly, most of those guys could shoot better prone at 1000 yards than I could at 600 from a bench and I don't consider myself a bad shot.

I have generally found that the kind of person that can routinely hit the black at 1000 yards with the 308 Palma isn't going to be one that tells you he can hit the black at 1000 yards 49 out of 50 times. I generally discount the Ricky Recondo's until such time as I see proof on target.

[abunaitoo]

We have many of them at the range here.
Majority just read to many magazines or watch to many utube clips.
Have no idea what they are even saying.
They go out and buy the most expensive/fancy/trendy, stuff then can find, but can't even get on paper.
Excuse is always "defective equipment"
Worse part is they are dangerous.

[HollandNut]

Fortunately the ranges I go to are somewhat remote and not well known by many .. I dont go as often as I used to , but I was never that good .. My issue is I favor iron and my eyes prefer glass .. I can still see well but have cataracts starting in both eyes , and my prescription gets a bit stronger every year .. MOA or close to it beyond 3-400 yards is probably long past for me .. But I will keep shooting regardless ..

[tommag]

Those with the least to offer are usually the most willing to share it.

[BLAHUT]

Fortunately the ranges I go to are somewhat remote and not well known by many .. I dont go as often as I used to , but I was never that good .. My issue is I favor iron and my eyes prefer glass .. I can still see well but have cataracts starting in both eyes , and my prescription gets a bit stronger every year .. MOA or close to it beyond 3-400 yards is probably long past for me .. But I will keep shooting regardless ..

I had my Lenses replace a few years ago for the cataracts issue, now can see very good at distance, just need cheaters from the drugstore for up close, down time. one day, each eye...

[compass will]

It takes luck also some times. I was watching a father and son shooting 100 yards with 12" target, with larger than 12" groups with matching 30-06 rifles with 3-something scopes. They were very happy. But me being me i had to say "that cartridge is way better than that. See that steel deer out there at 600 yards? You should be able to hit that!"
His reply was "show me".
At that time I was shooting a lot of silhouette and had been reading a lot of tables on different cartridges as i was looking for a new gun, I said "sure I will try it.:
I cranked the scope up, off hand, I held maybe 36-40 over target and pulled the trigger. BANG I hit the full size steel deer at 600 yards It was a good feeling. I turned around and here my buddy had walked up behind me and said "show off" :) it was luck. (3 weeks prior, I was helping my buddy understand drop from his rifle before a trip out west, where he took a ram at 500 yards

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[BLAHUT]

Im also impressed and would like a rundown especially the optics

Bolt action, Solid bottom, Rifle built for 300 meter, 4p, competition.
Douglas barrel 1 - 7
No ejector
seria 80 gr hpbt 23grs 2230C
Nosler 80gr hpbt 22.5gr 2230C
Scope old Tasco World Class 1/16" Target 8 x 32 x 44
This set up is best for longer ranges, out to 600+
I do not think this set up will hit a steel plate at 200 yds.
It does not go to sleep till just past the 200 mark.
After 200+ Then can drive nails with it.

[compass will]

I had my Lenses replace a few years ago for the cataracts issue, now can see very good at distance, just need cheaters from the drugstore for up close, down time. one day, each eye...

I was 50 shooting silhouette with a guy who was 70 that just had cataract surgery done. He could see better than I could with open sights in the "lever action silhouette"

[M-Tecs]

Bolt action, Solid bottom, Rifle built for 300 meter, 4p, competition.
Douglas barrel 1 - 7
No ejector
seria 80 gr hpbt 23grs 2230C
Nosler 80gr hpbt 22.5gr 2230C
Scope old Tasco World Class 1/16" Target 8 x 32 x 44
This set up is best for longer ranges, out to 600+
I do not think this set up will hit a steel plate at 200 yds.
It does not go to sleep till just past the 200 mark.
After 200+ Then can drive nails with it.

If it doesn't shoot at 200 it will not shoot at distance.



Bryan Litz Ballistics
March 20 ·
Do bullets 'go to sleep' as they fly downrange?
Yes and no.
Yes, if there's a launch dynamic, and the bullet is stable, it will dampen the pitching and yawing angles as it flies. During this process, there will be a little more drag induced on the bullet, slightly lowering BC.
No, this does not mean the groups are bad at shorter ranges. Technically the bullets will fly a very tiny corkscrew around the average flight path, but the radius is only about 0.010"-0.020" max. This has been proven on shoot-thru targets (yesterday's post) as well as 6-DOF simulations (attached video).
Best way to explain why the corkscrew path is so small is to consider how quickly the bullet is precessing and nutating. By the time the bullet steers a little left, the nose has swung right, etc.
This video shows the pitching and yawing angles (left) and bullet path from shooters eye view (right).
https://youtu.be/KH9SCbCBHaY
Follow me for more about the science of ballistics⚡⚡⚡
#AppliedBallistics #thescienceofaccuracy #ballistic #rifle #precisionrifle #longrangeshooting

Some more light reading on the subject.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Epicyclic-Swerve.pdf

https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/do-bullets-go-to-sleep.690/

https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/epicyclic-swerve.876/

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1205/1205.2071.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/BryanLitzBallistics/posts/do-bullets-go-to-sleep-as-they-fly-downrangeyes-and-noyes-if-theres-a-launch-dyn/121058457177794/

[45workhorse]

Farthest I have shot is 600 yards. M16A2 service rifle trying out for Parris Island Rifle Team. A female out shot me! Yep it hurt but, that is life. I did shoot the 200 yard off hand clean...... But that was not for SCORE!!! My head got so big I could not get the proper stock weld, the next day. I like my humble pie served with a mustard based barb-b-que sauce.

I don't have any place to shoot past 100 yards. I still like burning powder, both kinds.

[hawkenhunter50]

Had a guy like that at our last gravel pit shoot. Range is 1 1/2 miles long this year and a lot of 50bmgs etc are brought out. We start at 1k yards then back off 500yards at a time. I can generally get 3 of 4 shots on a standard man sized steel plate target at 1 mile, always seem to have 1 flyer(flinch probably... high power rifle makes me HURT). I do not practice enough to translate to be X ring accurate on a target. At 1k yards no problem being on the man sized steel plate but that is a big target! 100 yards with a .223 yes I am X ring accurate... go over 500 and nope not accurate. And as I get older it is harder to be super accurate.

One guy with a 20mm Vulcan rifle was consistent at 1 1/2 miles... he missed 1 of 10 shots. THAT was impressive to watch and hear. He shoots hand turned and weighed brass solids and makes his own targets because the bullet WILL punch holes in 1/2 inch AR-500 steel.

And the tank guy was there, he made a mess out of an old car we had put small holes in... always fun to watch him shoot that thing! The shock wave from it firing is awesome then to hear and see that round plow through an engine block...

Are you accepting new members? That sounds like an awesome place to shoot.

[country gent]

If you get the chance take your spotting scope to a 1000 yd match and set up behind a good shooter. Stay low and watch his rounds "trace" go down range and into the target.
You will get a new understanding of elevation wind and time of flight by the time you leave seeing the traces "banked corner" shape. When it starts out the trace will look like its going to hit 2 targets over then it starts to be pushed by the wind and drop as it slows both become much more pronounced.

At 600 yds the trace will "break" at just about the top of the target starting down into the target again, but the wind change isnt as obvious.

[M-Tecs]

If you get the chance take your spotting scope to a 1000 yd match and set up behind a good shooter. Stay low and watch his rounds "trace" go down range and into the target.
You will get a new understanding of elevation wind and time of flight by the time you leave seeing the traces "banked corner" shape. When it starts out the trace will look like its going to hit 2 targets over then it starts to be pushed by the wind and drop as it slows both become much more pronounced.

At 600 yds the trace will "break" at just about the top of the target starting down into the target again, but the wind change isnt as obvious.

Trace watching is one of the more enjoyable parts of scoring. I've only seen this a couple of times in 35 years since the conditions have to be perfect but when the bullet leaves a contrail scoring becomes downright enjoyable.

[BLAHUT]

If it doesn't shoot at 200 it will not shoot at distance.



Bryan Litz Ballistics
March 20 ·
Do bullets 'go to sleep' as they fly downrange?
Yes and no.
Yes, if there's a launch dynamic, and the bullet is stable, it will dampen the pitching and yawing angles as it flies. During this process, there will be a little more drag induced on the bullet, slightly lowering BC.
No, this does not mean the groups are bad at shorter ranges. Technically the bullets will fly a very tiny corkscrew around the average flight path, but the radius is only about 0.010"-0.020" max. This has been proven on shoot-thru targets (yesterday's post) as well as 6-DOF simulations (attached video).
Best way to explain why the corkscrew path is so small is to consider how quickly the bullet is precessing and nutating. By the time the bullet steers a little left, the nose has swung right, etc.
This video shows the pitching and yawing angles (left) and bullet path from shooters eye view (right).
https://youtu.be/KH9SCbCBHaY
Follow me for more about the science of ballistics⚡⚡⚡
#AppliedBallistics #thescienceofaccuracy #ballistic #rifle #precisionrifle #longrangeshooting

Some more light reading on the subject.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Epicyclic-Swerve.pdf

https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/do-bullets-go-to-sleep.690/

https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/epicyclic-swerve.876/

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1205/1205.2071.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/BryanLitzBallistics/posts/do-bullets-go-to-sleep-as-they-fly-downrangeyes-and-noyes-if-theres-a-launch-dyn/121058457177794/

[ If it doesn't shoot at 200 it will not shoot at distance.]
I know what this gun will do and what it doesn't. You don't. Until a bit past 200 there is no accuracy.... You want ? We can get together at my club and you can see for yourself??? That is an invite..

[M-Tecs]

[ If it doesn't shoot at 200 it will not shoot at distance.]
I know what this gun will do and what it doesn't. You don't. Until a bit past 200 there is no accuracy.... You want ? We can get together at my club and you can see for yourself??? That is an invite..

That works for me. Next spring at Harris or Mpls? Prefer Harris since we can go out to 1,000 yards. At Mpls we have the electric scoring targets but that's only 300.

[BLAHUT]

That works for me. Next spring at Harris or Mpls? Prefer Harris since we can go out to 1,000 yards. At Mpls we have the electric scoring targets but that's only 300.

Deal; Mpls, bench rest, point 1, 210yds to steel. Yes 300 meters.

[M-Tecs]

Deal; Mpls, bench rest, point 1, 210yds to steel. Yes 300 meters.

How will that prove it shoots at distance? So your claiming you can't hit a steel plate at 200 yet at 300 it will drive nails? You stated it's set up for 600 so show me what it can do at 600.

Elk River is also an option but I am not a member there, but they have 600 yards.

[Nazgul]

Shooting buddy passed away several years ago. We would shoot almost every Saturday morning. The sun was behind us early in the day. We got into a silly competition shooting 45 Colt levers at 150 yards offhand at a steel target 8" x 8". You could watch the base of the lead bullet in the sun as it traveled to the target. Gave us an exaggerated view of the procession that rounds exhibit in their flight.

My range can go to 300 yards. Remington 308 heavy barrel with McMillan stock and handhloads. I have one target that is 3 shots into .89". It is my personal zen time, don't care about anything else when I am alone shooting.

Shot at 500 yards, open sights, M14, in the Marines. Did well, always expert.

Don

[Wag]

practice, PRACTICE and you can !!! It takes work to learn and then to keep your skills up....

Definitely!

--Wag--

[country gent]

Having been lucky enough to have been squaded with some of the best over the years in my run I can also make this statement, Always shoot with better shooters when you can You will pick up more from watching them. While a lower shooter seldom hurt my scores, Shooting with the better and watching would raise my scores or constancy every time.

The big thing is like the internet is knowing who to watch.

Being in the lower scores can be good if your watching and learning from the better more experienced shooters.

My "score" books were so important to me all the information conditions and data for each stage and yardage. This was true in High power, long range, and BPCR silhouettes. All that information on hand and repeatable.

A good shooter dosnt fire a sighter to see he puts the sights on reads the wind and fires a shot to see if hes right. :p

[Shanghai Jack]

Having it brought to my attention that I was indelicate and lacking discretion in my previous post, I want to apologize to all and particularly to Blahut for my post.

I was not trying to question Blahut's abilities but to bring out the point that the people on the range who make extraordinary claims of 1000 yard or 1 mile + markmanship but can't remember which direction to move their sight are generally not believable. As Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." particularly when the evidence at hand contradicts the claim. Once again, apologize to all.

[Hannibal]

During my youth my Grandparents used to say 'Only believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.'

I had no idea what to make out of such a statement for decades, but I see it as sage advice now.

[MaryB]

Those who can't do, teach!

Ran into it a OT in the electronic repair biz... guys who talked a ton but practical knowledge was zero... they usually lasted 2 weeks or less at the casino because we needed those who can do and do it without hand holding. On a Saturday night with repair calls coming in at a rate of 20-40 an hour it was dead run fix it on the fly and move on to the next problem.

[Winger Ed.]

It's always the quiet guy in the corner, just doing his thing, old beat up car and gear (except for a meticulously maintained rifle), who outshoots everyone and then heads home with a few cloverleafs on a 300 yard target.


Years ago, at our 100 yard public range I was out banging away and there was an old guy with a really clean old K98 Mauser.
He was down at the end, and I didn't even notice him for awhile.

I looked down the bench, he was shooting slowly, but I didn't see his target on the board.
It perked my interest, and I looked over with a spotting scope.
The old fella was shooting 5 shot groups on a business card with the open sights.

[alfadan]

I doubt I could even DRIVE 1000 yards to the target without missing it!

[john.k]

The range I shoot,they have a motorbike to go out to the long range targets............sure saves a lot of time too.

[Finster101]

Our range only goes to 300 and we have access to drive a vehicle out to the target lines. A must have when you have a bunch of old guys shooting. Myself included.

[fatelk]

I shot one time out to 500 yards, back in the '90s. The guy who owned the range had a steel gong set up out on the mountain side. I did fairly well, but remember thinking that 500yards was a long ways. Then he pointed out the gong he had set out at 1200 yards. I could barely see it, and I was young with sharp eyes. That's a LONG ways.

The current range I shoot at has a 100 yard rifle bay. It would be interesting to shoot farther, but I'm good with it. Long range isn't really my game, and I don't have anything to prove anymore. For me, tiny little groups at distance are no more practical in the real world than my golf score. I'm not competitive, never have been. I shoot for fun, and am as good as I need to be.

As to learning and improving, some years back I went to the range with a friend. He's a Marine who spent a couple tours in Iraq. He had a nice new SIG pistol that he wanted to get better with. He said the Marine Corp had taught him to shoot a rifle, but not really a handgun. He was shooting a paper plate sized group at about ten yards, and started complaining that something must be wrong with his gun.

He handed it to me and I shot a tiny little group off to the right a bit. I handed it back and said that it just needs the sight drifted a little. He was embarrassed, but I told him it's just practice, and knowing how to practice. I gave him some of the basics about handgun marksmanship, and suggested some online resources.

The next time we shot together a couple months later, he had improved dramatically. I was impressed. He had studied and practiced and was on his way to becoming a heck of a good shot. I really have to respect someone like that.

[nueces5]

I have been going to the rifle sector of my range for 20 years
I find that there are people who come regularly, and I greet them by name, seeing what new cargo they come to try
many times we laugh at the disasters of groups that we make... instead of rifles they look like shotguns
and others that I call "mentally deaf" do not know where they come from, nor where they are going
they read a lot on the internet, and they think they are going to hit the target at 1000 meters, with little preparation
It took me almost twenty years to fulfill that dream...
I want to see them in the range....

[BLAHUT]

I shoot close, I shoot far, a small group at ?? yds is great, as I move out, my ambition is to keep the group small at distance. Just like a funnel, I am on the small end, my group is on the wide end and gets bigger with distance. I strive for, I know it will never happen, a one hole, 10 shot group, at 1000yds. I practice at 400yds. To keep it tight/tighter is the challenge.... When the kids I coach, got cocky and/or board, I would have them tape a playing card to their target, edge on, and let them see if they could cut the card in half?? Or tape a strike any-ware match to the target, and see if they could light it? All tried, some did, some did come close at 10 meters. Some cleaned a 10-bull air rifle target in competition, 10 meters, not often, but on occasion. A feet to be proud of.... Some of these kids were real good, some, all tried.. To strive for perfection ??? IS The goal, For me anyway.......

[BLAHUT]

It takes luck also some times. I was watching a father and son shooting 100 yards with 12" target, with larger than 12" groups with matching 30-06 rifles with 3-something scopes. They were very happy. But me being me i had to say "that cartridge is way better than that. See that steel deer out there at 600 yards? You should be able to hit that!"
His reply was "show me".
At that time I was shooting a lot of silhouette and had been reading a lot of tables on different cartridges as i was looking for a new gun, I said "sure I will try it.:
I cranked the scope up, off hand, I held maybe 36-40 over target and pulled the trigger. BANG I hit the full size steel deer at 600 yards It was a good feeling. I turned around and here my buddy had walked up behind me and said "show off" :) it was luck. (3 weeks prior, I was helping my buddy understand drop from his rifle before a trip out west, where he took a ram at 500 yards

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

There is luck, There is skill, There is experience, Please do not confuse them??
I spent many years working very hard, to take, the last place on any match board.

[dverna]

There is luck, There is skill, There is experience, Please do not confuse them??
I spent many years working very hard, to take, the last place on any match board.

The more I practiced the luckier I became. But there was a point where I reach my "level of incompetence".

In my case, competitive shooting made me "hungry" to do better. Luckily, I have never placed last but maybe I just knew when to quit...LOL.

As to the "range ninjas". I have been blessed and do not deal with them any longer. I have a little slice of heaven and have put in a shooting range to 200 yards. It is not much, but it is mine and it keeps me involved with shooting.

[Rickf1985]

Ok, NOW, How many of you think you could reach out to two miles or more? Here is a guy who treats 1,000 yards they way we treat 100! And note his shooting conditions, always windy. Although I would move there in a heartbeat just to shoot!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs3sYk1tuP5Er95EniC-uMw/videos

[Mal Paso]

Our range is only 200 yards. Bill must be well into his 90s and shoots his ARs at 200 yards but is never the last one in. He has an electric chair to get from his car to the range then out to the target. It disassembles to fit in his new 'vette. He loads all his own ammo. It puts a smile on my face to see him.

So far the good people at my range have outweighed the bad.

[lightman]

I was in a concealed carry class once with a short heavy pudgy fellow that claimed to be a Navy Seal. He really didn't look like Seal material to me! He also didn't know how to get his pistol out of the holster and required quite a bit of coaching to hit the target at 21 feet!

[BLAHUT]

The more I practiced the luckier I became. But there was a point where I reach my "level of incompetence".

In my case, competitive shooting made me "hungry" to do better. Luckily, I have never placed last but maybe I just knew when to quit...LOL.

As to the "range ninjas". I have been blessed and do not deal with them any longer. I have a little slice of heaven and have put in a shooting range to 200 yards. It is not much, but it is mine and it keeps me involved with shooting.

That is wonderful. I have a 10meter range in my basement. I shoot my .177 air pistol most every day. My air rifle when practice is needed before match time. Keeps me involved. Keeps my trigger finger, brain connection, a little involved. Cheap practice with components costing ??? and availability ???
At about $3.00 for 500 pellets real cheap for ammo. Can treat almost, just like shooting long range. Any good practice is well time spent. Will get out to the real range soon.....

[BLAHUT]

Ok, NOW, How many of you think you could reach out to two miles or more? Here is a guy who treats 1,000 yards they way we treat 100! And note his shooting conditions, always windy. Although I would move there in a heartbeat just to shoot!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs3sYk1tuP5Er95EniC-uMw/videos

Practice, Practice, PRACTICE, and with the right equipment and range, you could too......

[jonp]

I doubt I could even DRIVE 1000 yards to the target without missing it!

Ha! I can shoot 1,000yrds any day of the week with no problem. Now, hitting something is the trick. I used to be ok out to 750yrds or so but like any skill I probably couldn't hit the broadside of a barn anymore. My hunting went down to 100yrds as a long shot in the swamps so 200yrd practice was what I did. Those guys that can shoot 1,000 yrds and get it on target more often than not especially with black powder have my respect

[jonp]

Ok, NOW, How many of you think you could reach out to two miles or more? Here is a guy who treats 1,000 yards they way we treat 100! And note his shooting conditions, always windy. Although I would move there in a heartbeat just to shoot!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs3sYk1tuP5Er95EniC-uMw/videos

One of my subscriptions! They are great

[Geezer in NH]

There are one or two at every range or club I have been too. I am almost 71 and it has happened all my life. Usually there will also be one goosing butterflies with a knife or bayonet.

[MaryB]

Had a good one at the range the other day...

Gets out of his truck. I call it from the start seeing the combat boots and BDU's... he proceeds to put on body armor, a helmet, gets out an AR-15 with so much crap on it the weight is over 15 pounds(vs my minimalist AR at 7 pounds). He goes to the 25 yard line when we point out it is for 22 rimfire only, or pistols.

So he moves to the 50 yard lane. Fiddles and fusses with all the crap on the rifle then proceeds to make a 12" target look like it was hit with buckshot with NO shots on center...

he waves his target saying isn't that great then deflates seeing the target I pulled from the 300 yard line with every shot within a 4" circle(shooting cheap Federal ammo). From a stripped down AR with just a scope on it. No forward assist, no dust cover... slick side lightweight upper...

[Wag]

Had a good one at the range the other day...

Gets out of his truck. I call it from the start seeing the combat boots and BDU's... he proceeds to put on body armor, a helmet, gets out an AR-15 with so much crap on it the weight is over 15 pounds(vs my minimalist AR at 7 pounds). He goes to the 25 yard line when we point out it is for 22 rimfire only, or pistols.

So he moves to the 50 yard lane. Fiddles and fusses with all the crap on the rifle then proceeds to make a 12" target look like it was hit with buckshot with NO shots on center...

he waves his target saying isn't that great then deflates seeing the target I pulled from the 300 yard line with every shot within a 4" circle(shooting cheap Federal ammo). From a stripped down AR with just a scope on it. No forward assist, no dust cover... slick side lightweight upper...

Love seeing that.

--Wag--

[Carrier]

My experience is that the ones who 'look' the part or 'talk' the part.....generally aren't the ones who can actually shoot. It's the quiet, modest looking old guy at the end of the bench ya' need to be paying attention to!


Only problem is most of us quiet, modest looking old guys can’t see worth crap anymore so you better be paying attention.:bigsmyl2:

[Stacts]

My problem is that it's a 45 minute drive to the range and it's all steal targets. Their rifle range only goes to 100 yds. I practice when I can, but that's usually something like once a month (haven't yet gone for Nov).

That said, on my last trip, I was hitting a 6" plate at 25 yds with my 1911. Only missed once or twice out of ~20 shots (then the plate fell off the hanger, the range closed, and I went home...).

[deces]

He read the claims on the box and applied them to himself...

[varmintpopper]

I've shot at a NATO demonstration shoot at 1600 yards and put 3 rounds touching into a 20 inch bullseye (bragging)
The gun was 90mm on a M48A1 Tank, OK,, go ahead and top that !

Good Shooting

Lindy

[MUSTANG]

Well maybe a 16" gun on the old Battle Ships at 41,622 yards?

307543

[country gent]

Rhe proper answer for the guy bragging about his ar and big pattern is, good thing they make 40 rounders for that.