Resizing 357 Maximum for 357 magnum shot loads.

[sniper]

What can be used to resize the mouths of 357 Max brass so they will fit the 357 magnum cylinder? A 9mm Lee Factory crimp die? Lee bullet sizing die, .356? A 9mm size die?

[BK7saum]

i don't exactly remember what I used. I am sure I posted it in my thread from a year or two ago, but I think it may have been a Lee or NOE bullet sizing die around .356 to .360"

[BK7saum]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?408264-38-special-and-357-mag-snake-shot-loads-with-357-maximum-brass&highlight=BK7saum+rem+max

[rockrat]

MIght have used a 38 special crimp die or 9mm crimp die

[jcren]

Not sure on 357 mag, but I used a 327 mag sizing die to "shoulder" some cut 223 brass to make 380 acp shotshells that were the same oal as a conventional load. Worked better than expected.

[BK7saum]

I did use a 327/32 seater die (0.330") to create the "neck" on the maximum brass.

For some reason, probably because the case isn't supported, the "neck" did not form concentric to the body with the 0.356 die. It needed a smaller constriction in order to fit in the chamber.

[Rapier]

Just trim to 357 mag trim to length and reload using 357 Mag dies. They are the same case just a bit longer on the Super Mag (Max).

[BK7saum]

Just trim to 357 mag trim to length and reload using 357 Mag dies. They are the same case just a bit longer on the Super Mag (Max).

The OP is attempting to load shotshells that are the full chamber length, not just loading 357 magnum cartridges.

[trapper9260]

The OP is attempting to load shotshells that are the full chamber length, not just loading 357 magnum cartridges.

The way it sounds then , just have the case full length of the cylinder and then load . Might need some adjustments for how it sounds. I am not sure I have not done it yet. But give me a idea to work on this winter.

[psweigle]

Back when I looked into doing this, there was a die to star crimp "blanks". That was the route I was going to go.

[Alferd Packer]

Star crimp ruins cases

[Meatpuppet]

I don't know your circumstance, but it may be worth going in another direction for a dedicated "Snake/Rat Gun." The Bond Arms "Roughneck" Derringer in .357 can be had for as low as $250. Ream it out with a 357 Max reamer and you have a pretty lightweight little snake gun that is easy to reload for and does not wreck the brass. I did the same to a Bond Arms 45 Long Colt and had it cut with a 460 S&W reamer. Still working up shot loads for it, but it holds way more #11 shot than a .410 shell does. Who knew that Harvester Muzzleloader 45cal Hi-pressure Sabots make excellent shot cups?

The bonus is that the barrels are relatively cheap and you can easily convert it back.

[uscra112]

I keep seeing this thread and shaking my head. Necking down a Maximum case so it fits into the throat of a .357 Magnum cylinder means you're going to be driving your shot load through a funnel. Am I missing something?

[trapper9260]

I keep seeing this thread and shaking my head. Necking down a Maximum case so it fits into the throat of a .357 Magnum cylinder means you're going to be driving your shot load through a funnel. Am I missing something?

You have a good point there, one thing I did not think of and it is a thing that I think should not do, funnel the shot . What dose others think ?

[BK7saum]

No one has a full choke barrel on there shotgun?

I agree not an ideal situation, but is it really a problem. I am sure there will be deformation of the shot from the transition but i am only lookig for 800-900 fps out of #12 or dust, not a super handicap trap load of 7½s at 1330 fps.

[uscra112]

Full choke doesn't reduce bore area by 14%, and the choke is at the end of the barrel, not at the throat.

Restriction like that is going to boost pressure by quite a lot. It's not like pushing gases through the neck of a shouldered rifle case, you're asking a charge of lead shot to crowd through.

How are you going to get wads past that reduced diameter without damage?

[high standard 40]

The 45ACP shot loads that many of us load utilize a shouldered case without any problems. I don't see this as being any different. I also have some longer, shouldered case shot loads for my 44 Mag revolver. Again, I haven't seen any problems. The pressures I use for shot loads are by necessity low or patterns suffer. I'm not advising anyone to follow this path, though. We can each decide what we are willing to load.

[uscra112]

Well, I'm open to empirical evidence, but it seems mighty counter-intuitive to me.

[BK7saum]

Wads are disc of manila folder or a disc of primer cardboard. So getting the "wad" through the constriction isn't a problem. Just insert the disc sideways with a slight bend, push in, then tamp / flatten the wad on top of the powder.

Shooting higher velocities/ pressures is counterproductive to even groups. While the constriction boosts pressure, the pressures arent on the high end anyway.

[triggerhappy243]

i make shotshells for my 44 mag, that the brass is full cylinder length, and have no issues. 150 gr. load of #8 or #9, 9.5 gr. of unique. good enough for snakes at 10 foot away. I convert 303 brit brass.

[Milky Duck]

Im a little confused as to why you would want to put a shoulder in at all...both 357mag and max are straight walled cases..... my understanding of a "snake load" is a shot payload fired through a handgun or rifle chambered in a straightwalled cartridge like these...so if you want to use a 357max in a 357 revolver...trim cases so they are NO MORE than maximum length of cylinder and load your shot INSIDE the case...maybe good thick wad of cardboard under shot a thin cardboard disc on top,cemented in place with couple of dobs of nail varnish etc to glue the disc to mouth of case and have at it.....the "payload" being front disc,shot and rear wad disc will all exit case and enter barrel ,encounter rifling and shove its way through ,hopefully not generating too much spin in process.....where is problem??? this is in effect how a steel sided .410 is loaded except a wad is used to hold payload...

[tew45]

I use a shortened .410 shot shell shot cup for some .45 snake loads.

[triggerhappy243]

im a little confused as to why you would want to put a shoulder in at all...both 357mag and max are straight walled cases..... My understanding of a "snake load" is a shot payload fired through a handgun or rifle chambered in a straightwalled cartridge like these...so if you want to use a 357max in a 357 revolver...trim cases so they are no more than maximum length of cylinder and load your shot inside the case...maybe good thick wad of cardboard under shot a thin cardboard disc on top,cemented in place with couple of dobs of nail varnish etc to glue the disc to mouth of case and have at it.....the "payload" being front disc,shot and rear wad disc will all exit case and enter barrel ,encounter rifling and shove its way through ,hopefully not generating too much spin in process.....where is problem??? This is in effect how a steel sided .410 is loaded except a wad is used to hold payload...

there is a reduced dia. Area in the cylinder called a forcing cone. It is usually the diameter of the bullet and it lines the bullet up with the barrel's forcing cone. The brass case is larger in dia. And will not fit in this area.

[Milky Duck]

ok that makes sence now.....as the payload will be mostly still inside this area it shouldnt matter....
if you look at rule of thumb with STEEL shot in older guns or tight chokes,less than #3 shot and lightish payloads..both are suggestions to prevent bridging...all the pellets trying to get out of constriction at once and bunching up.... the amount of restriction you looking at will be minimal and shot os lead=softer and small shot sizes=lots of ability to move/wiggle around and make room so it SHOULD BE fine. as to how to shrink it down to size...yeah I will leave suggestions to those who know.

[triggerhappy243]

ok that makes sence now.....as the payload will be mostly still inside this area it shouldnt matter....
if you look at rule of thumb with STEEL shot in older guns or tight chokes,less than #3 shot and lightish payloads..both are suggestions to prevent bridging...all the pellets trying to get out of constriction at once and bunching up.... the amount of restriction you looking at will be minimal and shot os lead=softer and small shot sizes=lots of ability to move/wiggle around and make room so it SHOULD BE fine. as to how to shrink it down to size...yeah I will leave suggestions to those who know.

simple, for 44 mag revolver, a 40 S&W carbide sizer is used. for 357 mag????????? i need to look into that.

[beltfed]

You can size the 357 Maxi cases in a 300 blackout die, which will neck down the case mouth to 30 cal.
such that the shoulder will be at 357Mag length. Then expand the neck with a lyman 8mm M die.
The result will be a case 'neck' that will fit nicely in the throats of the 357mag cylinder
beltfed/arnie

[sniper]

My thinking, since reading about somebody who used a .222 Remington sizer; I tried it, and all I got was FLB. (funny lookin' brass) Then I tried my Dillon Pro crimp die, which helped a little. My:idea: "Solution"(?)...get a carbide .32 sizer die, which will reduce the case mouth diameter of the Maximum brass so it will fit into the shorter 357 Mag. cylinder, and get some .32 caliber gas checks for over-shot use. The first firing should fire form the brass so there will be no more problems. (I hope!) So, That's where I am today. Too cold for the range now, so come spring, I should know if the WIIDOW (What If It Don't Work) factor has struck...Orrrrr...Murphy's Law.:mrgreen:

One problem, tho...#12 shot. Where can I get 2 or so lbs. of it? even the smallest amount sold on line would be a lifetime supply! The really cheap shotgun shellls with #9 shot have disappeared from Walmart shelves locally. Duck season opens soon, so maybe there will be some next time I venture into Wally World.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

[triggerhappy243]

My thinking, since reading about somebody who used a .222 Remington sizer; I tried it, and all I got was FLB. (funny lookin' brass) Then I tried my Dillon Pro crimp die, which helped a little. My:idea: "Solution"(?)...get a carbide .32 sizer die, which will reduce the case mouth diameter of the Maximum brass so it will fit into the shorter 357 Mag. cylinder, and get some .32 caliber gas checks for over-shot use. The first firing should fire form the brass so there will be no more problems. (I hope!) So, That's where I am today. Too cold for the range now, so come spring, I should know if the WIIDOW (What If It Don't Work) factor has struck...Orrrrr...Murphy's Law.:mrgreen:

One problem, tho...#12 shot. Where can I get 2 or so lbs. of it? even the smallest amount sold on line would be a lifetime supply! The really cheap shotgun shellls with #9 shot have disappeared from Walmart shelves locally. Duck season opens soon, so maybe there will be some next time I venture into Wally World.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

i can share some #9 shot. PM me if interested. BTW, for me, it is never too cold to shoot a round or 2 uot back on the back 40.

[challenger_i]

As regards bottlenecking the 357 Max, I use a Lee 300 BO sizing die that has the lower portion opened up enough to slip fit a 38 case. As it comes from the factory, it is a tad tight and will sorely abuse the case.
Way before One forms the Max case, One needs to prime, charge and place the over powder card (I like the 1/8" .36 cal card from Track of the Wolf). At this point, lightly lube the case, being careful to not get any lube in the case mouth. Once the case has been bottlenecked, add the shot charge leaving about 1/16th inch space above the shot. Place a .315" +/- diameter card over the shot charge. I use an 8mm Mauser case that has been sharpened to cut my over shot cards from soda or Shiner 12-pack boxes.
Backset a 222 Remington sizing die such that the mouth of the case just barely engages the shoulder forming surface in the 222 die. Play with the adjustment until you get a roll crimp on the case mouth.
Once you have your shells made, get some $3-a-bottle colored fingernail polish and daub the wetted brush around and under the roll crimp area, and work your way out until you have a uniform coating on the card. Use a dedicated color for each shot size you may use, to keep things in order.
If you intend to re-use the brass, I highly recommend annealing the brass before you start the process. Also, if you are loading for a Model 60 Smith, you will need to trim the brass .063".

The above method has worked well for me, for about 400 rounds now. As always, your mileage may vary.

[challenger_i]

Im a little confused as to why you would want to put a shoulder in at all...both 357mag and max are straight walled cases..... my understanding of a "snake load" is a shot payload fired through a handgun or rifle chambered in a straightwalled cartridge like these...so if you want to use a 357max in a 357 revolver...trim cases so they are NO MORE than maximum length of cylinder and load your shot INSIDE the case...maybe good thick wad of cardboard under shot a thin cardboard disc on top,cemented in place with couple of dobs of nail varnish etc to glue the disc to mouth of case and have at it.....the "payload" being front disc,shot and rear wad disc will all exit case and enter barrel ,encounter rifling and shove its way through ,hopefully not generating too much spin in process.....where is problem??? this is in effect how a steel sided .410 is loaded except a wad is used to hold payload...

Milky Duck: If the velocity of the charge is too high, you certainly will scatter shot. If you put the shot round on a standard rifle target at 10-12ft (about the best range for using a pistol shot shell) and you get a circular pattern with an empty center, reduce your powder charge. The loads I use, with #12 shot, give a dense, uniform pattern about 12-15 inches in diameter from a 6 inch barrel. A 2 inch snubby opens up only a small bit more.

[sniper]

Trigger; Thanks for the offer, but I have enough #9 for the forseeable future..it's the smaller sizes in reasonable amounts that are hard to find.8-)

[challenger_i]

Bottom of the page:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Magnum-Chilled-Lead-Shot/products/68/

[Milky Duck]

My thinking, since reading about somebody who used a .222 Remington sizer; I tried it, and all I got was FLB. (funny lookin' brass) Then I tried my Dillon Pro crimp die, which helped a little. My:idea: "Solution"(?)...get a carbide .32 sizer die, which will reduce the case mouth diameter of the Maximum brass so it will fit into the shorter 357 Mag. cylinder, and get some .32 caliber gas checks for over-shot use. The first firing should fire form the brass so there will be no more problems. (I hope!) So, That's where I am today. Too cold for the range now, so come spring, I should know if the WIIDOW (What If It Don't Work) factor has struck...Orrrrr...Murphy's Law.:mrgreen:

One problem, tho...#12 shot. Where can I get 2 or so lbs. of it? even the smallest amount sold on line would be a lifetime supply! The really cheap shotgun shellls with #9 shot have disappeared from Walmart shelves locally. Duck season opens soon, so maybe there will be some next time I venture into Wally World.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

buy a box of .12ga and scavenge the shot......one box of 25 cartridges will go a long way.

[Milky Duck]

Milky Duck: If the velocity of the charge is too high, you certainly will scatter shot. If you put the shot round on a standard rifle target at 10-12ft (about the best range for using a pistol shot shell) and you get a circular pattern with an empty center, reduce your powder charge. The loads I use, with #12 shot, give a dense, uniform pattern about 12-15 inches in diameter from a 6 inch barrel. A 2 inch snubby opens up only a small bit more.

we saw that when trying birdshot and even buckshot through a rifled .12ga topper....was very disapointing as thought we had found the ultimate carry gun for wallabies where #2 lead takes care of 90% and a 100yard shot makes up the other 10%...nope epic fail so back to shotgun in hand and rifle across back.

[gunther]

A friend's wife has snake phobia. And a chief's special. You don't really need the 357 max case capacity if your plan is to empty the gun on each snake. Speer plastic shot capsules have worked for her for years. They are hard to find right now. But they avoid the barrel leading no one has mentioned, and they pattern well enough with 7 1/2 shot to get the job done. They do not create doughnut patterns.

[challenger_i]

My preference is to use the Speer capsules, as they are easier. However, in their absence I had to have something that would hold enough shot to be effective. For my personal use I used 454 Casul in my 45 Colt New Service. For the folks I know that have 38 snubbies and an overabundance of rather large rattlebugs, I used the 357 Max method. It is a case of necessity.

[Alferd Packer]

12 GA. Shotshells made by RIO can be had in #12 shot size.
A box of them broken down for the shot will make more pistol shotshells than you will ever shoot.

[ok-22shooter]

I am wondering if the case is fire formed with light loads. My thought is to reduce the diameter down to so point above where the powder level would be. Some where above the top of the case head. this would allow the shot column to be of uniform diameter. set the diameter height to get the weight of shot one wants. For those that have shot the 357 Max case, does it move the "shoulder" forward to the end of the 38/357 chamber? If it does expand out/forward, could a sleeve be slipped over case to fill the annular area?

[725]

I do the same thing as trigger-happy does. I turn the rim on .303 Brit to fit the extraction star, cut the overall length to just under the length of the cylinder charge hole, re-size with a .44 mag die and then set a "bottle neck" with a 10 mm sizing die. I set that neck to the length to fit the reduced dimension of the front of the cylinder. Load and seal with a card & Elmer's white glue. Works way better than the commercial "capsule" loads.

[challenger_i]

Tad late in responding...

The loads I have made fire-form to the chamber dimensions. Also, you will want to anneal the top 3/8" from the case mouth if you intend to re-use the fired cases, elsewise they will split at the end.

[rintinglen]

+1 on the advice of challenger i. When I have made cylinder length shotshells for 38's, I have used the same method, though I used a 32 ACP seater die to neck the cases after annealing. The correct procedure for reusable cases, is to:
trim cases,
anneal,
prime,
insert powder charge,
seat over-powder wad,
lightly lube the outside of the neck,
run prepared case into 32 ACP seater die to form shoulder that allows the case to chamber in the revolver,
insert shot,
place over shot card on top of shot,
crimp lightly with the 32 ACP Sizer die after removing the primer decapping rod,
finally, seal with a lacquer-type, liquid--like nail polish. Use at least two coats to aid in keeping your cases and shot together while handling or carrying them.

If you only intend to do a handful, especially if you scrounged the cases and have no money in them, don't bother with annealing.

[MarkP]

A Lee push thru sizing die will have a lead-in that should work. Case mouth will be around 0.380" so the mouth should slide into a 0.358" push thru

[Photog]

What can be used to resize the mouths of 357 Max brass so they will fit the 357 magnum cylinder? A 9mm Lee Factory crimp die? Lee bullet sizing die, .356? A 9mm size die?

a Lee .309 boolit sizing die.
311944

[kombayotch]

How many grains of #9 shot can you stuff into a converted 357 Maximum case?

[challenger_i]

How many grains of #9 shot can you stuff into a converted 357 Maximum case?

I do not have my cheat book with me, but I believe I was loading 140gr #8 1/2 in the rounds I made up. YMMV depending on
your wad stack and powder volume.

[kombayotch]

I do not have my cheat book with me, but I believe I was loading 140gr #8 1/2 in the rounds I made up. YMMV depending on
your wad stack and powder volume.

Thanks! DO you recall What powder and wads you were using?

[challenger_i]

Thanks! DO you recall What powder and wads you were using?

That, I do! Unique and .360" 1/8" over powder card from Track of the Wolf. Over-shot cards were punched with a 5/16"
gasket punch from soda cases or Dime Store poster board. Roll crimp with a 222 Rem sizing die, backed off to just roll the mouth. Seal with gel-type fingernail polish.

Be advised: if you will be using the 357 Max cases in a Model 60, or 642, you will need to trim the cases .063".

[kombayotch]

Thanks! I was looking at those Track of the Wolf cards. Been making mime cutting them out with a sharpened 9mm case on a drill...

[jmorris]

Well, I'm open to empirical evidence, but it seems mighty counter-intuitive to me.

Shot loads in rifled barrels generally work best as slow as you can get them, I stop at function in semiautos. If you want evidence you won’t blow up your gun, you can watch my videos or perhaps just buy some CCI ones that are necked dow as well and try them yourself.

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/handgun/cci/pest_control_shotshell/6-3745.html

https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/src/Primary/549/549829.jpg?imwidth=680

[Texas by God]

I’ve just completed a test of using .357 magnum brass for .38 Special shot loads.
Honestly I see no difference in these and my normal .38 shot loads for performance.
Not enough difference to justify the extra work in my opinion.
I used the Lee .309” sizer to crimp the end like shown previously. I’ll file that hack!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arthur Roy]

I have used a 300 Whisper/ 300 Blackout dies to load 357 Magnum shot shells out of Maximum brass. I started out with the sizing die turned out quite a bit, then just kept turning it down till it chambered. I loaded with powder, felt wad, shot then crimped over a 30 caliber gas check. Worked great!

[Arthur Roy]

Forgot to mention this works with equally well with 38 Special and 357 Mag.

[shdwlkr]

something to think about if using starline .357 max brass
*.357 Maximum cases cannot be trimmed down to the .357 Magnum length due to the internal taper of the case!

[challenger_i]

I prefer using a full-length 357 Max case, as it will hold more shot. More shot, better effective round, rather like the difference between a 410 2 1/2" and a 3". Only reason to trim is if the shell will be used in a shorter cylinder, such as the Model 36 Chief. The bottle-necked 357 Max will hold 145gr of #12, vs the Speer 38 capsule's 108gr.