Best Cartridge for 100-300 YD

[joelpend]

I compete in Benchrest Single Shot Matches with the longest shots being 300 yards. I currently shoot smokeless and am not interested in shooting black powder. The bullets must be plain base and I cast my own currently for 38-55 and 40-65. My 38-55 has a 12 twist so I shoot heavy bullets (360 gr). I shoot 400+gr in the 40-65. I am not shooting these fast, somewhere in the 1200-1250 range. We shoot from sticks with no rear bag. My question is if the sky is the limit what would be your optimum "rimmed" cartridge to shoot max 300 yards. It needs to shoot 2 moa or under at 300 yards. I am hoping there is something that is soft shooting and accurate to 300. I do not find shooting off the sticks to be easy and I'm hoping lighter recoil may lead to more consistent gun management. Been looking at the Schuetzen chamberings but since I believe they just shoot 200 yards I am thinking they may come up short for 300 yards. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and replies.

[M-Tecs]

My pick would be 30BR.

[joelpend]

What weight bullet would you need and how fast in the 30 cal.
Hard to use a rimless case in some of our single shot actions but 30 Herrett is real close to BR capacity I think.

[Three44s]

Of my collection of lead flippers that I have tried, my .338-06 comes to mind. I have the inexpensive 2 cavity Lee 225 gr boolit mold and it shot very well with minimal load development (IMR 4320). I have a barrel in 35 Whelen and it would likely be even better but I have not mounted it and shot it yet.

Three44s

[dverna]

When I was competing, I looked at what the best competitors were using. There will be good shooters on this forum, or “hacks”, giving opinions. You do not know.

But the odds are there are more “hacks” than top competitors.

It boils down to how serious are you about getting better.

[joelpend]

When I was competing, I looked at what the best competitors were using. There will be good shooters on this forum, or “hacks”, giving opinions. You do not know.

But the odds are there are more “hacks” than top competitors.

It boils down to how serious are you about getting better.

Respectfully, I already have what the others are shooting and I would like to build something different if it makes sense. I set a World Record in 1000 yd Benchrest by building a heavy rifle that was totally unconventional, a one of a kind rifle. I have tons of experience and knowledge in the jacketed bullet high velocity cartridge world but not nearly as much in the cast bullet world.

[stubshaft]

30/30! Long neck to cover the grease grooves and moderate powder capacity. If you can find some of the old Federal American cases (30/30 with a small rifle primer) that would be a bonus.

[Larry Gibson]

30/30! Long neck to cover the grease grooves and moderate powder capacity. If you can find some of the old Federal American cases (30/30 with a small rifle primer) that would be a bonus.

That would also be my suggestion and choice. I'd also go with a 12" twist for use with cast 190 - 210 gr bullets. If 150 - 165 gr bullets were on the table then I'd go with a 14" twist.

[HWooldridge]

38-55 will shoot to 300 yds - have you tried it yet?

The trouble with kicking the velocity up too much is the plain base restriction you mentioned as one of the rules. A .375 H&H would be a good choice, but I expect it's too much gun.

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t know what you are restricted to, but I did well up to 300 yards hunting with my 7mm Remington. It always shot’ nice and flat.

[Gewehr-Guy]

I used to shoot a Krag rifle in our CBA matches with plain base bullets, but only out too 200 yards. I was using fast burning shotgun powders, which limited my velocity to probably around 1200-1300 fps. Some days they shot incredibly well at 200, but shooting in moderate wind, they slowed enough to become somewhat unstable at 200. I think with the 30-40 case, you could use a slower powder to keep the plain base bullet supersonic out too 300, and still be within your 2 MOA requirement.

A Ruger #1 re barreled or a Win hi-wall would be a fun rifle in 30-40

[Jedman]

I would think the 30-30 or even the 7 x 30 Waters would be a ideal cartridge if you can find the right boolit that it likes.

Jedman

[barrabruce]

If you could paper patch then you could load up velocity more.
You’ve got two options as far as I can see.
High enough velocity to stay above transonic to 300 yrds
Or Stay subsonic.
Subs I have got groups of a handspan out that far.

Pb and pushing 1500 fps+ Is out of my league of equipment and knowledge.

Nothing wrong with 30-30

You could go all logic and find a great mold for the job then work up back from there as to fps /twist rate and case and powder to push it.

I think the br crowd are geared to use one bullet one twist one cartridge and one powder and one load to be competitive. They even have to have the same flavour scope and front rest.

[M-Tecs]

The OP specifically asked about "Benchrest Single Shot Matches" . It's been years since I stopped following equipment used by the winners. At the time the 30 BR was the dominate cartridge.

[joelpend]

The type match is what some refer to as Buffalo Matches, we use period correct rifles or reproductions such as Sharps, Highwalls, Rolling Blocks, Stevens 44 1/2, Ballards, Etc. We shoot from the bench using cross sticks to support the rifle barrel and no rear rest is allowed. I do not think it is reasonable to shoot anything that will remain supersonic to 300 yards. TOO MUCH RECOIL IMO plus plain base bullets. Cartridges also should be period. Technically the 30-30 is a smokeless case but our Match Director would allow that I am pretty sure. Black Powder Paper Patched wins consistently buy I do not want to shoot black or paper patch. Thanks for the responses.

[M-Tecs]

The type match is what some refer to as Buffalo Matches, we use period correct rifles or reproductions such as Sharps, Highwalls, Rolling Blocks, Stevens 44 1/2, Ballards, Etc. We shoot from the bench using cross sticks to support the rifle barrel and no rear rest is allowed. I do not think it is reasonable to shoot anything that will remain supersonic to 300 yards. TOO MUCH RECOIL IMO plus plain base bullets. Cartridges also should be period. Technically the 30-30 is a smokeless case but our Match Director would allow that I am pretty sure. Black Powder Paper Patched wins consistently buy I do not want to shoot black or paper patch. Thanks for the responses.

Very period correct https://americangunfacts.com/32-40-cartridge/ and back in the day it was one of the more popular Schuetzen cartridges.

[joelpend]

Very period correct https://americangunfacts.com/32-40-cartridge/ and back in the day it was one of the more popular Schuetzen cartridges.

I have given this consideration and I know the 32-40 works extremely well to 200 yards for the Schuetzen crowd. Just unsure whether stretching to 300 yards would be asking too much when velocities need to be kept in check

[M-Tecs]

I have given this consideration and I know the 32-40 works extremely well to 200 yards for the Schuetzen crowd. Just unsure whether stretching to 300 yards would be asking too much when velocities need to be kept in check


That would mostly be a twist/bullet issue.

https://americangunfacts.com/32-40-cartridge/

From 1886 on, the .32-40 was available primarily for Winchester and Marlon never action rifles. It primarily saw use for hunting medium-sized game like deer, as well as smaller varmints like wolves and coyotes, at ranges of up to 300 yards or 270 m. It also saw use as a match-grade cartridge for target shooters.

[HWooldridge]

I have given this consideration and I know the 32-40 works extremely well to 200 yards for the Schuetzen crowd. Just unsure whether stretching to 300 yards would be asking too much when velocities need to be kept in check

So…does your 38-55 recoil too much?

[Larry Gibson]

"My question is if the sky is the limit what would be your optimum "rimmed" cartridge to shoot max 300 yards. It needs to shoot 2 moa or under at 300 yards. I am hoping there is something that is soft shooting and accurate to 300. I do not find shooting off the sticks to be easy and I'm hoping lighter recoil may lead to more consistent gun management."

Appears the OP wants something with lighter recoil than the 38-55 load he has been using which is a 360 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps. A .30, .31 or .32 cal rifle shooting a 170 - 190 gr bullet at 1200 - 1400 fps whould fit that requirement. Thus the 30-30, 32 Win SPL or 32-40 would be what i would look at.

[HWooldridge]

"My question is if the sky is the limit what would be your optimum "rimmed" cartridge to shoot max 300 yards. It needs to shoot 2 moa or under at 300 yards. I am hoping there is something that is soft shooting and accurate to 300. I do not find shooting off the sticks to be easy and I'm hoping lighter recoil may lead to more consistent gun management."

Appears the OP wants something with lighter recoil than the 38-55 load he has been using which is a 360 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps. A .30, .31 or .32 cal rifle shooting a 170 - 190 gr bullet at 1200 - 1400 fps whould fit that requirement. Thus the 30-30, 32 Win SPL or 32-40 would be what i would look at.

That's why I asked (again). I know everyone has different levels of recoil sensitivity but the 38-55 is a pretty good fit for the OP's other requirements. Heck, drill a hole in the butt under the plate and add a couple pounds of lead - or get a heavier barrel installed.

My stepdad had an old Remington Hepburn in 38-55 with a very heavy barrel - the rifle weighed almost 18 pounds. We would shoot it all afternoon with factory loads - recoil was almost nil.

[glaciers]

Larry pretty much covered what I wanted to say. 30-30, 32SPL, but I would add the 30-40 in that mix. 1-12 twist was my first thought but that would need to be worked out with bullet length and weight versus velocity.
I’ve been casting up some 220 grain very blunt round nose from an old NEI mold Walt made 40 years ago. My intention was to use them in the 30-30 after reading some of Frank Marshals writings on heavies in the 30-30 which has been my interest an Frank hit my nail right on the head.
While Frank was loading a 220 grain Lyman mold, he mentioned Walt’s design with the idea the NEI would work better being slightly shorter. But Frank was working at higher velocities then needed here.
But depending on bullet to be used, Larry’s mention of 1-12 or for a lighter upper 1-14 would work nicely. Less bullet weight at low velocity equals less recoil.

[gumbo333]

You can shoot a 45/70 a long long ways.

[Savvy Jack]

The Buffalo slaughter in the south began in earnest in 1874 and was over by 1878. In the north the great hunts began in 1880 and were over by 1884.

Since you are shooting smokeless powder, not period of itself, why not the 30-40 Krag? I'd like to see the 30-40 (30 Army) and the 30-30 (30 Winchester) become popular for this type of shooting for an 1894 period something.

https://www.proxibid.com/Rifles/Single-Shot-Rifles/Winchester-Model-1885-High-Wall-30-40-Krag-Cal-Single-Shot-Rifle/lotinformation/57398947

[Jedman]

If shooting a 30 cal. cast bollit such as the LEE - TL 309-230 5 R with a high BC of .688 it would only take a muzzle velocity of 1350 fps to remain supersonic at 300 yards. If the rifle weighed approx the same as the 38-55 shooting a 360 gr. bollit the 30 cal. would be about a 33 % reduction in recoil.

Jedman

[Bird]

The easy way to go is with the 30-30. The 30br has been done with cast boolits with good success. You could do a 30br rimmed or 308x1.5 Barnes rimmed using reworked 307 brass, and even go with a long neck.
What single shot rifle do you plan on using? The 1885 browning should handle just about any pressure you will need.

[Rapier]

Since it does not need to be BP, I would go with the 357 Super Mag (Max) with the RCBS 200 grain flat point plain base. Discontinued by RCBS. Saeco still makes this bullet mould.
I have shot them to 300 meters in a feather match, turkeys at 300m.
With a single shot just straighten the case mouth with a taper crimp die, takes 20-23 grains 296 or H-110. In a 16-18" barrel i will do 2,000 + fps.
This is a ten shot group with a 10" Ruger SRM, open sights off my leg with the 200 grain RCBS.

It has the same case capacity as the BR. A Martini Cadet would make a nice and unusual rifle.

[quilbilly]

My 250/3000 in my Encore barrel using my 107 gr CB's from rummage sale bought old Saeco mold.

[joelpend]

The easy way to go is with the 30-30. The 30br has been done with cast boolits with good success. You could do a 30br rimmed or 308x1.5 Barnes rimmed using reworked 307 brass, and even go with a long neck.
What single shot rifle do you plan on using? The 1885 browning should handle just about any pressure you will need.

I will probably have another barrel made for my 40-65 CPA Rifle. For those unfamiliar it is quite easy to change the barrels and breech block when necessary. My 38-55 is a Pedersoli Highwall and the trigger is not to my liking. The 30-30 is sounding like the candidate that very closely matches my objectives and it is so common it should be easy to find cases.

[barrabruce]

The 32-20 cpa and 32 Miller short have its followers.
But I don’t know to 300yrds thou.
30 Wesson would be old school legal if important.

32’s have some long range bullets moulds if you want
30’s ummm

[charlie b]

Sounds like a good choice. As Larry mentioned, figure out what velocity you want to shoot at and pick a corresponding twist rate.

And, yes, a 2000fps, 167gn bullet does well out to 300yd. So does a 210gn bullet, but, the recoil is a bit higher as well.

[sse]

I like Jedman's idea of the Lee 230 gr. 30 cal. like a 30-30 or 30-40

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Since plain base is necessary, the 32-40 with a streamline 200-230 grain bullet should work, NOE shows a couple. Might need a 1-12 twist though 1-14 might work. I use a 200 grain flatnose in the 32 Special with a 1-16 twist with excellent accuracy at 200 yards, I guess I should try 300 yards. Wind will be the biggest problem,

[MOA]

Here ya go.

https://i.postimg.cc/W3YLyxcz/IMG-20221220-121845241-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXhTXSJb)

https://i.postimg.cc/QdgLDFZR/IMG-20221218-135754818-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JshYc4nq)

https://i.postimg.cc/fy3nQ5MK/IMG-20221216-134327041.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PvkFmWpp)

[Savvy Jack]

Here ya go.

https://i.postimg.cc/W3YLyxcz/IMG-20221220-121845241-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gXhTXSJb)

https://i.postimg.cc/QdgLDFZR/IMG-20221218-135754818-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JshYc4nq)

https://i.postimg.cc/fy3nQ5MK/IMG-20221216-134327041.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PvkFmWpp)

yes yes yes

[selmerfan]

Caveat - I do NOT shoot competition. I shoot for fun. I have an original Stevens 44 1/2 (not a CPA repro) for which I had CPA make a .30-40 Krag barrel that I have used exclusively with cast boolits, the Lyman 311299 specifically. Using 32 gr. of Varget I can shoot literal one hole groups at 100 yards, gas checked, 50/50 COWW/SOWW bullets, lubed with Lotak Hard. I have shot 1" groups at 300 yards with it, though I'm primarily shooting at 6" steel plates. Velocity is just over 2000 fps.

[selmerfan]

PS - the .30-40 Krag BARELY fits the 44 1/2 action because of case length and diameter in relation to the breech block - the rim just barely fits past the top of the breech block. But it works.

[BLAHUT]

A friend shot a 38/55 and won lots of matches, set state Reckords, his load was with heavy for caliber bullets with light loads of unique. He could not handle any heavy recoil or muzzle blast, all shot off of sticks. Powderpuff loads, He shot these on paper and silhouette. He shot out to 400 yds and more with his 38/55. I shot his rifle at 400yds off sticks, not sticks on bench and it grouped very good.
I have one of his bullets downstairs if you would want me to weigh ?
As far as how much powder, I don't know? Just it was light. If I had to guess, I would venture 10 / 11 grs. ??? Sorry can't ask, he has left the range for the last time.

[gunwonk]

"My question is if the sky is the limit what would be your optimum "rimmed" cartridge to shoot max 300 yards. It needs to shoot 2 moa or under at 300 yards. I am hoping there is something that is soft shooting and accurate to 300. I do not find shooting off the sticks to be easy and I'm hoping lighter recoil may lead to more consistent gun management."

Appears the OP wants something with lighter recoil than the 38-55 load he has been using which is a 360 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps. A .30, .31 or .32 cal rifle shooting a 170 - 190 gr bullet at 1200 - 1400 fps whould fit that requirement. Thus the 30-30, 32 Win SPL or 32-40 would be what i would look at.

The .303 British would also be period correct, for both black powder and smokeless.