Nose sizing

[stanford]

Hi Everyone,

What are you guys using to size the nose on your cast bullets these days? I started loading some .452 cast over the weekend and ran into a surprise where my loads were not chambering. I have been doing quite a bit of research and have seen mention of nose sizing, I know its the nose because once its sanded down a little the round chambers fine.

I have never loaded cast bullets before I have only loaded FMJ bullets in the past. I have quite a bit of lead so I cast my own and I PC the bullets but this non loading issue has been quite a surprise. I had no idea that this problem had been going on for decades as I read those old messages online.

Some have said to seat the bullet a bit deeper, tried that and at times it worked and others it didn't make a difference. Plus seating your bullet so the length of the bullet it sits 99% in the case is not something that I want to do.

Any advice as I have a few thousand rounds of different calibers to work with but I am just focusing on the .452 for now so I can get it resolved.


Thanks..

[nicholst55]

Is this for an auto pistol? If so, the chamber of that pistol may need to have the throat opened up slightly. This is a very common situation to be in, and it can be easily remedied. Contact member Doug Guy, and discuss this with him. He had throated many pistol barrels for members of this and other forums, as well as honed any number of cylinder chamber throats to the proper diameter. I have two barrels that I will be sending to him shortly.

[Dusty Bannister]

Please state the bullet mold number you are using so we can visualize the issue. Generally, powder coating will alter the form of the nose of the bullet and can be to varying degrees due to the type of powder coat material you use. The build up on the ogive of the nose is the issue in most cases.

[FredBuddy]

In my case, certain PC'd boolits wouldn't chamber
because the PC increased the diameter of the bore
riding portion too much. I tried nose sizing but it's
such a PITA that I scrapped that process.

My options became either get a mould with the nose
of a size to accommodate PCing or a mould for an
entirely different profile. Of course, we could just lube.
I went with a different profile; now everybody's happy.

[mdi]

Normally I would address bullet seating depth for a handload that doesn't plunk. I have never had to size a bullet's nose but some bullets have a "fatter" ogive that requires deeper seating to allow clean chambering...

[stanford]

I originally made these 200gr MP molds hollow point, I only made 100 since I was going to go to the range last weekend and didn't need a lot.

306349

Once I found out that the rounds wouldn't chamber after they were resized I was really confused. I started searching around and found out that some people said to seat the bullet lower. I tried seating lower and this is as low as I could go in order to get it to chamber. I didn't like the bullet being so low into the case so I pulled out all the bullets and started looking into what the problem is, since I couldn't find a solution I decided not to use these bullets.

306350


I then went to my Lee 230 gr flat nose and had a little more success. I tested a few rounds in the case gauge and I ended up making 50 rounds.

306351

Once my 50 rounds were completed I started testing them in the Springfield 45 and half of them wouldn't chamber. I checked all the rounds with the case gauge and out of the 50 rounds I was only able to get 21 that came out right. So now I am pretty lost and confused on what to do.

I brought two rounds to a guy who is a machinist here at work and had him take a look to see what I am not seeing, take measurements etc.. Even he could not figure out what in the heck was going on with the rounds. I brought him my sizing dies, case gauges, everything that I used. Eventually he sanded down the shoulders on this round on the right and it was able to chamber into the case gauge without issues. The round on the right is a little shorter than the one on the left, yet still it had to be sanded slightly to fit the gauge.

306352

[El Bibliotecario]

If I had to sand the shoulders of each round to allow it to chamber I would abandon powder coating and just clean the leading. For an auto pistol a USGI .30 chamber brush works wonders on the heaviest leading just ahead of the chamber. Or better, find an alloy/bullet diameter/powder charge combination that did not lead. But that's just me.

I would also worry about excessive pressure from rounds with bullets seated as shown with a visible space between the bullet and the top of the case. Again, that's just me.

[racepres]

If I had to sand the shoulders of each round to allow it to chamber I would abandon powder coating and just clean the leading. For an auto pistol a USGI .30 chamber brush works wonders on the heaviest leading just ahead of the chamber. Or better, find an alloy/bullet diameter/powder charge combination that did not lead. But that's just me.

I would also worry about excessive pressure from rounds with bullets seated as shown with a visible space between the bullet and the top of the case. Again, that's just me.

Simple solution really
Tumble lube... or dip into LLA etc..

[stanford]

I would also worry about excessive pressure from rounds with bullets seated as shown with a visible space between the bullet and the top of the case. Again, that's just me.

This is why I scrapped all those rounds once I saw how low that bullet needed to be seated into the case. I haven't tested my 9mm cast rounds yet but I am really hoping that I don't have this same problem. Actually I haven't made any 9mm rounds yet.

[Dusty Bannister]

In photo #2 you have more going on than just the nose striking the lands too soon. What is the actual measured diameter of the bullet you are trying to use? You say it is a .452" bullet, but is that after powder coating??

[stanford]

In photo #2 you have more going on than just the nose striking the lands too soon. What is the actual measured diameter of the bullet you are trying to use? You say it is a .452" bullet, but is that after powder coating??

I don't remember the size offhand, but I kept pushing the bullet in a little at a time to see how deep I had to go in order for it to chamber properly. When I get home I am going to test one without the PC and see if it chambers fine, if not I will have to abandon all of this and do something different.

[Dusty Bannister]

Photo #4 suggests that your bullet is over sized after powder coating and this prevents the loaded cartridge from chambering.

[stanford]

Okay here is an update now that I am home.

I took a few plain lead 200gr HP and sized them to 402, I sized my case and added the flare to accept the bullets. Once I pressed the bullet in and made sure that it was in to the correct depth I checked the round with the Lyman case gauge, everything tested perfect. I made another round to see of my process was consistent and it was. I put both rounds in the magazine and tried to chamber them, guess what, the rounds did not chamber at all. I took the barrel out of the pistol and checked the length of the round in the barrel and it was a tad bit too long. I seated the bullet a tiny bit more while checking to see if it fit in the barrel, once it looked like it was seated in the barrel properly and at the correct length I reassembled the pistol and tried chambering the rounds again and it actually worked.

I decided to move the seating rod a tiny bit more down and tried again and the rounds wouldn't chamber at all. I had to move it back out a tiny bit to get it right, once I did that I locked the die and tried it on a PC bullet and it came out pretty good. I am able to chamber the rounds without an issue now so I will try loading a few of the HP and test every round with the barrel just to make sure that it will work.

This is really a pain but I think I will make a few hundred rounds and be done with this headache. Then I have to tackle the 9mm to see if I have the same issues.

[charlie b]

Does your pistol barrel have any throat on it, ie, is there a tapered section of rifling at the case mouth or is it 'sharp edged"? If it has no taper to the beginning of the rifling that is your problem.

Contact DougGuy and have him do his thing on the barrel.

FWIW, you might have this same issue with you 9mm barrels. My HK barrel has no throat and scrapes off powder coating.

Some bullet profiles just do not like certain barrels. Powder coating just makes things worse. One reason I stick with SWC in my .45 cast loads.

PS those of us who nose size are usually working with rifle bullets that have a significant portion of the bullet inside the rifling 'riding' on the lands of the rifling. That portion of the bullet is sized as close to the dia of the bore as possible.

[stanford]

Couple of questions. Does your pistol barrel have any throat on it, ie, is there a tapered section of rifling at the case mouth or is it 'sharp edged"? If it has no taper to the beginning of the rifling that is your problem.

Contact Dougguy and have him do his thing on the barrel.

FWIW, you might have this same issue with you 9mm barrels. My HK barrel has no throat and scrapes off powder coating.

charlieb, my Springfield XDM 45 does have a throat where the brass stops. I really don't want to do any modifications on the barrel just so I can shoot cast bullets. The 9mm rounds which I have not tested yet are going to be used in Glocks and Keltec sub 2000.

I see that you also mentioned rifle rounds, don't get me started on that one since I want to also shoot .223 and .308 rounds which I haven't started on as yet. Just working with the pistol rounds for now to get the process ironed out.

If I do happen to get some leading do you guys know what a good solution is to easily clean the lead out of the barrel? I used to work with a guy that mentioned something to me but I don't remember what the name of the chemical was.


Thanks

[stanford]

Its funny that I just found this video online which speaks about the same issues I was having.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivcOlPPzpuQ

[racepres]

charlieb, my Springfield XDM 45 does have a throat where the brass stops. I really don't want to do any modifications on the barrel just so I can shoot cast bullets. The 9mm rounds which I have not tested yet are going to be used in Glocks and Keltec sub 2000.

I see that you also mentioned rifle rounds, don't get me started on that one since I want to also shoot .223 and .308 rounds which I haven't started on as yet. Just working with the pistol rounds for now to get the process ironed out.

If I do happen to get some leading do you guys know what a good solution is to easily clean the lead out of the barrel? I used to work with a guy that mentioned something to me but I don't remember what the name of the chemical was.


Thanks
No Chemicals... if a Bronze brush won't get it... yer doing something very wrong

[gwpercle]

This is why I scrapped all those rounds once I saw how low that bullet needed to be seated into the case. I haven't tested my 9mm cast rounds yet but I am really hoping that I don't have this same problem. Actually I haven't made any 9mm rounds yet.

Getting the 45 acp to function with cast boolits is a ... walk in the park on a sunny day .
The 9mm is a Stinker ... I had been casting &loading for 45 years when I got my first 9mm.
It made me say curse words and took about three tries and three boolit moulds to get right .
What worked NOE 358-124- TC- GC size to .357" , air cooled , gas check installed and not powder coating ... lubed with conventional Lithium-beeswax lube .
Powder coating makes the nose too big and gives nothing but trouble .
Good luck with the Nasty-Nine ... it tried my soul !

Cast boolit for the 45 acp Lyman # 452460 (200 gr. SWC) ,
NOE 453-198-SWC or NOE 453-200-SWC
The nose on these SWC designs will give much less trouble when powder coating ... don't powder coat and you have no problem !
Gary

[Char-Gar]

Obvious problem with an easy fix:

1. Forget that PC stuff.

2. Have douguy throat the barrel.

[charlie b]

You can still PC as long as you have the right bullets. Like mentioned above, the SWC design is simple to use.

If you are going to use PC with a cast bullet it is better if you get a design made for that. When you move to rifle cast bullets you can go to the Accurate site. He allows you to undersize the mold so you can add PC to it.

I also agree with above. The 9mm has been the hardest cartridge to cast for in 40 years of doing this.

[Idz]

the 45acp pistols have varying chambers and throats. Bullets that stray to far from the military ball profile have problems in some of them. The PC load I settled that feeds well in my 1911s, kimber, glocks, and sigs is the Lee 452-228-1R, 1.200 OAL, with 4.9 grains of Win 231 powder. Size bullet to 0.452 after PC.

[stanford]

Wow, that's a lot of info and you guys have done most of the work. I do appreciate all the feedback from you folks who have been there and done that. This Saturday will be my test day for the PC rounds I made so far, want to zero in the red dot and be done with it. Supposed to be in the 50 degree so that will be perfect.